u/cgmyst

Just something I’ve noticed from my own and other people’s experiences.

If you publicly question or express disagreement with anything the church or clergy do, you get Orthodox people swarming out of the wood work to condescendingly “correct” you. They often accuse you of having a mental health issue (ironic because so many of them are anti therapy and psychiatry), or some spiritual affliction, and if the concern trolling doesn’t work, then you are simply just too stupid or weak to understand and continue on in the church.

It’s so exhausting and annoying. I feel like some of these people WANT Orthodoxy to be a cult, and they sure do act like it.

When I was new and heavily indoctrinated, I believed this whole heartedly. I’ve been thinking on this subject a lot, but I’m having difficulty putting it into words, so I apologize if it doesn’t make sense.

The church will say that salvation can be found outside of the EOC. That it’s up to God, not us, who will be saved or not saved. Isn’t truth exclusive by nature?

Then wtf am I doing all this for? If Orthodox theology is the only true theology, then other Christians are worshipping falsehoods according to them, but they too can be saved? If the EOC church is the only true church, then why is there so much ecclesial political infighting? If the two patriarchates aren’t in communion, then neither are “one” and one or both must not be “true”. Why is there so much variation between jurisdictions and individual parishes? Why isn’t there a uniform catechism if the truth is that obvious? If The Church is the body of Christ, I think the body is punching itself in the face right now. And lowkey, always has been.

If the church is a place of healing, redemption, and sanctification, why does it suck the life out of everyone and steal their joy and personality? Why does it make people so mean and judgmental? I used to have so much love and hope in Christ before I became Orthodox, now I barely even pray. I can’t pray. I feel like I’ve been cut off, like I’ve been spiritually neutered. Now I’m touching the scar thinking to myself, “something used to be there, didn’t it?”. It’s draining and anxiety inducing. I’ve suffered with mental health issues my whole life and the church has only made it worse. If you admit that you are not the final arbiter of judgement, then stop judging me and cutting me up into smaller and smaller pieces telling me this is how I become whole. I feel trapped.

I don’t feel Christian. I feel like I’ve been indoctrinated into some weird, esoteric, right wing, apocalyptic death cult. All because I wanted to belong to a family that wanted me.

Hey y’all. To make a long story about my faith very short, I went through a very dark time in my life which led me to finding Christ, which led me to finding orthodoxy. I was a catechumen for about a year and was chrismated about 3 years ago. I still very much have faith in God, but I am doubting orthodoxy.

I researched the theology and history of the church when I became interested, and found it to be very solid and comprehensive. I don’t really have a gripe with the official dogma, the tradition, the historical legacy, none of that. It’s more that…I’m seeing the fruits this tree is producing.

What I thought was a healthy parish when I began attending is transforming into something not so nice, and it’s mirroring a lot of the negative experiences I’ve heard about from others in the church. I was raised vaguely Protestant as a kid, my family wasn’t super religious and didn’t take religion too seriously, but one thing I remember growing up was how welcoming people were. I should’ve known something was off the first time I went to coffee hour and the only people who sat with me were kids (which is really cute and sweet tho). I should’ve known something was off when I found out I was the only single woman to convert alone in that parish in a long time, maybe ever. I’m a bit socially awkward and finding somewhere to sit where I wouldn’t be wholly ignored became too anxiety inducing, so I started leaving immediately after Liturgy. It’s become increasingly cliquey and there’s this weird, energetic undercurrent of hostility. I should’ve known something was off when the catechism class was one guy reading an essay he wrote off a piece of paper for over an hour. I should’ve known something was off when I suffered a publicly known personal tragedy and less than 5 people had anything nice to say to me about it. I should’ve known something was off when I didn’t attend church for weeks after years of consistent attendance and only one person asked me if everything was ok when I returned. And before anyone says it, yes I have tried my best to give to others the treatment I would like to get in return.

The transformation I’ve seen in our priest has genuinely disturbed me. I always liked him and looked up to him, he had given me genuinely wise and applicable counsel in the past. He was one of the few people to smile at me and greet me by name when I was new and would make time for my questions. He has become increasingly withdrawn, irritable, and overly scrupulous. Even to the point of nitpicking the words people use, even if they’re not saying anything heretical or “wrong”. I’ve heard him talk badly about some former inquirers, catechumens, and members who left, veiled references to people he didn’t like in his sermons that the people in the know would quietly giggle at. He has started saying things along the lines of how it’s not his job to be attentive to the entirety of his flock, that he has ministry leaders that should interact with the laity with his direction. Like yes, one priest can’t possibly interact with everyone in our growing parish everyday, totally get that, but his attitude has become quite flippant and unlike him. This has been very shocking and saddening for me.

I guess my point is, if this is truly the transformative and holy faith it claims to be, why does mostly everyone seem so deeply miserable? Like I get there’s always going to be unhealed, unhappy people in every manifestation of every faith, everywhere in life, that it’s an aspect of human society, that there are going to be spiritually ill people in a spiritual hospital, but it seems like myself and others aren’t really making any genuine progress, like no one is truly being healed or helped by any of this. I feel like I’m back in my occult/witchcraft phase in a way, that nothing you do is ever “enough”, there’s always something more you should be doing and you’re stupid and undeserving if you haven’t figured out what that is, you’re an idiot if you haven’t read this one obscure text written in a candle lit cave 500 years ago, mocking and looking down upon the hylics, constant bickering and drama on and offline, and if you have any complaint or spiritual difficulty, you’re the problem and doing something wrong. Has the phrase “you shall know them by their love for one another” totally lost all its meaning?

I’ve been telling myself I’m exaggerating things in my head, that I can’t possibly leave after talking it up this whole time and promoting it, that it’s a temporary test, or that I’m the problem and there’s some lesson here I’m not grasping. Old trauma keeps getting re-triggered and has left me doubting my own judgement. Perhaps the lesson here is to trust my gut, something I’ve regretted not doing in the past. I’m so sorely disappointed, I feel so confused and alone. I think I might gradually stop attending or go sporadically until I move away.

So if you’ve read this far and have any stories, advice, or consolation to offer, I would really appreciate it. I’m aware this is a sub for people who have already made their exit, and that your input will naturally be biased towards that direction, I don’t mind. Just curious about your opinions and personal experiences that made you leave, because I might be walking out behind you.