
(first time reader) Beginning book 8!
Path of Dag- Okay, listen, we talked about this last book. STOP PLAYING WITH SHARP OBJECTS. You'll cut yourself. SIGH.

Path of Dag- Okay, listen, we talked about this last book. STOP PLAYING WITH SHARP OBJECTS. You'll cut yourself. SIGH.
LIGHT- Okay, real talk, I have no idea how this book is going to end, and I gotta tell you, I LOVE IT. I LOVE LOVE LOVE IT.
You would THINK Sammael or some of the other Forsaken had more of hand in whatever is going on with Rand but Sammy boy has been quiet ever since his attempt to create a truce failed. Graendal wants nothing to do with Rand, Mesaana is probably still in the White Tower, Moggy and Balthamel are with the Salidar Aes Sedai and Aginor is Light knows where. Not to mention Semirhage is doing Light knows what to Creator knows who in...uh...what other divine phrase is there?
ANYWAYS
Salidar Aes Sedai
WTF? Are these people TRYING to make Rand go insane intentionally? What are they doing? They keep pissing him off and making him distrust them way more than he already does, and that is NOT helping their chances of surviving the Last Battle any good bit. Like, LISTEN, the LAST BATTLE could happen ANY DAY NOW. You would consider the hot weather being an unnatural occurrence as a sign but nah let's just piss off the Dragon Reborn and send him crazy, right? 3000 year institution my a-
Mat
Okay, another real talk, me and you...idk what Elayne and Nynaeve are thinking treating Mat the way they are. Like, Mat has been one of the best people they've had. He looks out for them and his people, he was cooperative (well...he doesn't like his cases but he still cooperates- you get what I mean), he stood up for Egwene's honor as Amyrlin (peak scene btw), and he has saved them SO. MANY. TIMES. Without thanks. I really do not think they should be treating Mat with such disrespect as to shame him in front of his own men and pretend like he's some monster. I'm especially disappointed in Nynaeve.
I don't know how this Ebou Dar plotline will work out but they better find that ter'angreal fast, get back to Egwene and Andor and get everything as settled as possible because it's all going downhill right now.
Perrin and Faile
They're perfect- THAT'S RIGHT PERRIN, STAND UP FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR WOMAN, THAT'S MY BOYYYYYY
Min
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Taim and the Black Tower
...Osan'gar has to be here right? At this point it's no secret about Rand's amnesty. I also think Fain is hiding somewhere here. Also, that scene where Rand announced those new names and pins and whatnot...it's pretty clear the Black Tower is going to turn on him cause he has ZERO loyalty from the hundred men (companions????????) compared to Taim.
Also I think Taim is a darkfriend and he's also going insane. More the latter than the former cause I'm keeping my expectations open. But yeah.
This book is SO GOOD MAN JEEZ
First off, I want to give a HUGE shoutout to u/Heritageeggs for being the coolest and making my reading experience way more fun than before. I'm very glad to have met all of you in this community, and I'm honored Heritage would give me the time of their day to share my excitement over this story with them.
What they also did was guide me into figuring out who Aran'gar is. The clues were there and the little moments, but this helped me realize it.
'...she glanced at his face every time with a sharp eye and an amused smile.'
The woman's body Osan'gar described as being like a dancer's. The sensing of Delana's channeling and wanting Logain dead or gentled. The sharp eyes.
The smile.
Balthamel.
They also confirmed an assumption I made waaaayyyy back when I first read the prologue on who Osan'gar is. I'm so very happy I guessed right. I guessed that so right and I'm HAPPY.
God I love these books.
Okay okay, ny second post for the day, but this one line is really bugging me
Taim has just knocked out Torval (there seems to be a spelling error in my edition). LTT begins murmuring about Taim as usual but for some reason this line really bugs me...
I should have killed him long ago...
I know he could be saying that Taim should have died a while back in current time, but...is Taim Osan'gar somehow? I don't think the time could match but I don't think we ever got a physical description of Osan'gar besides a normal face. Nor do we know exactly what his abilities are. Or is Taim someone LTT knows somehow?
Again, LTT could just be saying he should be dead already but I can't help the feeling that he means something else.
I did have a weird feeling that Demandred was posing as Taim for some reason but I'm just not sure what made me think that now.
Edit: I am aware that Bashere can tell if Taim just got replaced by another but I am keeping my suspicions open that the Forsaken can use the OP to shift their appearances or something. Idk. I'm just trying to see if something works here XD
Repost because I put the wrong chapter in the title, sorry
MIN. IS. BEST GIRL.
God, that scene where she tells him off for his slip is one of my favorite scenes in the whole book. She's such a compelling character, I love their dynamic as much as Faile and Perrin.
IT'S SO GOOD. I'M SO GLAD SHE'S ONE OF THE THREE GIRLS
Sigh. Good times, good times. For once, Rand didn't seem too pressured or stressed. He expressed his feelings, he spoke his honest thoughts, he shoved away LTT and was present in the moment with her. It felt really good to read that scene and I was exceptionally happy that they're together again. Light alone knows.
Now, onto Min's viewing of this aura. It seems like a short term conflict but she mentioned that three women will try to kill him associated with these colors: yellow, brown and purple.
My thoughts are:
It's three of you🫵 Don't touchy touchy the dragon man
It three of the Forsaken. Now, this is...weird because of Aran'gar because I think she's Lanfear but that's up in the air now. The remaining women of the Forsaken are: Graendal (who doesn't want to fight Rand), Semirhage and Mesaana.
Min quickly mentioned Aes Sedai but took it back, so maybe Black Ajah members hidden under different Ajahs. I did think for purple it's someone who isn't known who maybe switches between Red and Blue? But that probably sounds stupid. I also can't think of anyone who does that.
Brown could be Verin. Now, I do not know for sure but Verin is REALLY sus at times and I did wonder whether she was secretly Black. I don't have proof. But she is on my radar.
Sidenote: WHERE IS LEANE? She's just gone, I have no idea where she is. Also, where are Liandrin and her Black Ajah members? Where did they vanish off to after Moghedien whooped their butts? There's not been a whisper of them.
Perrin is also gone again and I hope we get to catch up with him. I do miss his POV and I would really love more Faile POV after the prologue. So many things are happening in this book, I have no clue what the ending is going to be.
Okay, for context, I haven't read Chapter 30 because of work yet BUT MY IMMEDIATE REACTION IS HOLY HELL, SHE ACTUALLY HEALED HIM
WHAT? FIRE AND SPIRIT WEAVES? I will say sometimes I don't really get the specific weaves so I might be forgetting any earlier explanations from previous books.
BUT, immediate thoughts:
Anyways, thank you for coming to my occasional freak out because OMG this book just got SO MUCH MORE INTERESTING
This is more a RAFO type question cause really and truly I don't have much from the Dark One as a character, and I also don't have anyone to talk to about this series as I read, but...
Is it understandable to feel a little frustrated that the main antag has been pretty much silent besides a few lines in the opening of this book? The prologue is the first time we ever hear actual words from the Dark One, hear his way of speaking, get some idea of who he is.
For 6 books, all we knew is that the Creator sealed him, he nearly escaped in the AOL until LTT sealed him and now he's a few seals from escaping the Bore.
We know Rand is supposed to face him in the Last Battle, but is it understandable that I wish we knew a bit more of HIM up until this point? As I read, I don't feel like Rand has much of any connection or personal dilemma against the Dark One except in his Divine purpose. Part of me wishes that Rand HIMSELF had more struggle against the Dark One. Like the Dark One really is RAND'S villain. Some emotional connection that stems from being the Dragon/Champion of the Light.
Now, this can happen, I'm well aware that many books remain in the series. Maybe I'm impatient, maybe I'm feeling lonely in not having anyone to talk to, maybe it's justified.
I just wish the Dark One felt more like the figure he gets his name from. It'll all come back to him and Rand but I kinda want a bit more. To feel his hand in the story more often
Last chapter read - 25 (Like Lightning and Rain)
Good Light in wherever the Creator is, there are so many things happening.
Katerine and Nesune playing with the Game of Houses with Colavere and Meilan. Sarene trying to play Berelain while Berelain is somehow on good footings with the Wise Ones (EVEN SORILEA), Rand making moves with people like Dyelin, revealing that he wants Elayne on both the Lion AND Sun Thrones.
Then there's Morgase trying to gather allies, Pedron Niall flecking around with the Dragonsworn, Sammael claiming Rand made a truce with him (is that true, it didn't come off that way to me, can someone clarify or is it RAFO), the rest of the Forsaken fighting among one another, Asan'gar and Osan'gar are yet to reappear, Mesaana is in the White Tower, the Seanchan are making moves with their flying mounts and fricken people are turning into beasts somewhere.
WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS BOOK LMAO
Light, it's hard to keep up at times. I might even be forgetting things. SHEESH. But this book has just shown how strong Jordan is with political mindgames. The man really does know his worldbuilding.
Lord of Chaos. BAH. Should be Book of Chaos to me
Been a slower read for me. Life has been draining these couple of days and sometimes I don't get to read at all.
HOWEVER
This book has been a lot. And I mean A LOT. There's so many things happening right now that's been fun and mind boggling and confusing and tense- UGH, so much.
But, Rand. Still my favorite character, though I am worried for his mental state. It seems to fluctuate a lot between him being conscious of what he doing and then LTT speaking in his mind. Now, I feel like Jordan is leaving a lot to interpretation so I'm going with what excites me most and saying that this is the Taint taking effect and breaking some barrier specifically concerning the Dragon. I think that the Taint can allow the previous incarnation of the Spirit of the Champion to seep into the mind of the current form, which probably has never happened before until now. My reason being that LTT reacts to things. Like when Alanna bonds Rand (more on this below) LTT is taken aback and quiet or when Rand uses balefire against Rahvin, he becomes quiet. I'll keep reading to see if Jordan explores this more but I'm running with that for now.
The girls are fun to read about, though sometimes I get frustrated with Nynaeve. She seems to be aware of how she can become better for her flaws but she seems to also be stuck at the same time. I have seem people be frustrated with her writing so I'll offer this: I think Jordan does this deliberately for the moment when Nynaeve breaks the block on her own. Theodrin is there to help provide the guidance, but Nynaeve is someone who is steadfast and determined to do things herself. I think she'll truly change/grow when she can channel without her anger as it'll be a time of self-reflection.
Now, Alanna...
LIGHT- I was pissed. I think when I realized what happened I took a walk and just tried to clear my head. I don't know what Rand will do now. I know what he did right afterward - and to me it came off as him trying to get some semblance of control again - but I don't know what he'll do long term. And I feel horrible for him cause it happened without his consent. So many people want so many things from him and, deep down, I think he just wants to go back home and take the mountain off his shoulders. But, like he says, he's left the Two Rivers behind, and Tarmon Gai'don is coming. Whenever it happens. It's just the path ahead and nothing else for Rand.
I think the worst was realizing that those people from his home now saw him as something worth fearing, something worth being wary of. It's...heartbreaking, really.
Egwene chapter next. I'm going to be continuing to take my time through this book but I'm looking forward to the rest of this story. I do hope we get some more Forsaken chapters, those are always fun, and we get to go back to Shayol Ghul, maybe hear the Dark One speak again, see what's the deal with Shaidar Haran. Which is very similar to Shadar Logoth in linguistic structuring, I realized.
YO, THIS HAS TO BE ONE OF THE COOLEST CHAPTERS IN THE ENTIRE BOOK, THIS WAS SO SICK
Finished the previous chapter with Mat, went over, saw the COOLEST CHAPTER MARKER IN THE SERIES SINCE, saw SAMMAEL and lost my mind. Had to take a walk cause no way we're getting more Forsaken POV, especially after Demandred and Mesaana. Little playing of mind games between Graendal and Sammael, some hints at lore from the Age of Legends (I have some thoughts to work out about what little info we got here), then Sammael left.
GRAENDAL POV? THEN SEMIRHAGE?
Yeah, this was one of my favorite chapters in the entire book after that AMAZING prologue. I really wanna know what this Nae'blis thing is. I find it funny that the Dark One essentially promised Demandred and Graendal Nae'blis but not Mesaana. I wonder why. If I had to give any immediate thoughts on what Nae'blis could be, I think of two things:
Also hoping we can go back to Shayol Ghul. That little scene with Demandred in the beginning was SO COOL. I would really like to see the Pit of Doom more or maybe Thakan'dar. I imagined it as being fully gray and black, everything devoid of color down to the rocks. I think it'll be a cool visual contrasted against the Rand's blood. I have seen Michael Whelan's art of Rand entering Shayol Ghul and it's some of my favorite pieces of art for the series. I'm...both excited and frightened whenever I get to that moment. It'll be a fully climactic time, the Dragon entering the lair of his ancient enemy.
At first I thought that it would be referring to one particular thing, that being balefire and its effect on the Pattern (which to me, I think balefire BURNS existing portions of the Pattern and it could possibly be a creation of the Dark One whose intentions for the power extended well beyond his initial expectations). However, the newbie thread for book 5 insinuates that something was happening in the background that relates to the title.
I think it might be something as simple as the growing heat. In book 5 as they were closing in on Cairhein, Rand stops and thinks to himself that the heat seems strange, it's nothing that feels right for the season. In LoC it's pretty much confirmed that the heat is UNNATURAL. We know that four of the Dark One's seals have been shattered and that he is an external force outside the Wheel of Time. We know the Dark One is probably the most powerful being on Earth, topped only by the Creator. I think that Fires of Heaven refers to the growing heat, which might be an allusion to the biblical passages literally and figuratively referring to the burning of the world or a simply growing allusion to the Dark One's version of Hell on Earth.
There is the argument to be made for Balefire and the Pattern still, but I think I like the idea of the Dark One's escape causing Earth to turn into Hell itself. Feels like something he would do despite how little we actually know him by this book.
Hi
I haven't been reading much these past few days since beginning LoC but I have finished the prologue, and I have some thoughts on the Osan'gar and Aran'gar characters (I would like to talk about this Nae'blis title for Demandred but I have nothing to work with).
It seems to me that Osan'gar implies Aran'gar is Lanfear post-death. I don't think that Moiraine is dead. However, now we have confirmation that the Dark One CAN REVIVE PEOPLE. Something Aes Sedai and (seemingly) the Dragon can't do.
I think by the way Osan'gar was admiring his appearance, he's probably Balthamel or Aginor.
Two reasons: both had similar presentations in terms of appearance, although with Aginor his appearance in Book 1 was due to being freshly escaped from the Bore. Bathamel, in that book, was said to have been so old he covered his whole body. They're also two Forsaken I don't think we know much about, the other one being Be'lal since he was just there in book 3 (I could be forgetting details as well so please forgive me if I have).
I am leaning more toward Balthamel but I am keeping open to Aginor as well.
EDIT: Would also like to say that Balthamel's design is my favorite. The mask? SO COOL
Hi.
This might be an unusual post, but I wanted to come on and say thank you to everyone who wished me fun reading Lord of Chaos for the first time. I haven't read since the first scene of the prologue; some...rough things have happened, and I'm not very much okay mentally and emotionally.
But I wanted to take that depression and do something nice with it. I wanted to say thank you to everyone in the sub who has interacted with me on my first series read, who have made me theorize, have taught me things about the story, who has made these books more fun than I ever thought. Thank you for making my love of reading that much better. You all have made my days brighter.
I will be making more posts as time goes on. I hope you'll stick around with me through it. But for now, thank you all. You're all wonderfully kind and your love for this story brings me lots of joy. I think I'll go read some more Lord of Chaos this morning. My head is full of wool (HA) and I think maybe getting away from everything will help.
Thank you all, and may you forever find water and shade <3
Lord of Chaos?
UGH, edgelords again🙄
WOAH, what a book.
Coming out of the battle against Rahvin - AND RAND AND NYNAEVE DECIMATING THIS MAN, LIGHT ALONE KNOWS - I feel rather exhausted. This book was HEAVY with worldbuilding, character conflict and anticipation for the coming struggles ahead. But a few wonderful notes:
There are some other things but I can't recall them right now. Now, as many thoughts/theories/questions as I could remember:
There's one more. I don't recall if they were named in any of the previous books, but there's one I don't know the name of. If that is the case and one hasn't been named, I wonder if they killed Asmodean. Speaking of which, ASMODEAN WAS REVIVED? IMMORTALITY? I mean it would make sense considering they lived for 3000 years, but then again I don't know how the seals work in the Pit of Doom (*rip and tear intensifies*). Is Mazrim the last Forsaken? Are YOU 🫵 the last Forsaken????
Edit: 4. The newbie thread pointed out that the titles from here will not be direct but very subtle, and whatever is connected to this book's title was done very subtly in the background. I'm not CERTAIN, but my theory is that Rand's use of Balefire is causing irreversible damage or calamity to the Wheel of Time. 'Fires' referring to Balefire' and 'Heaven' being the Wheel, Age Lace and the Pattern.
Anyways, I'm off to the newbie thread for this book. I already have the next three books, so I'll be starting Lord of Chaos soon!
This post is more my thoughts on Rand's mental state and his perception of himself as the Dragon, alongside my own feelings as a reader moving with the Wheel.
In short, I don't think Rand has fully accepted that he is the Dragon Reborn. I think a part of him still rejects it and instead conceptualizes the responsibility of the Dragon as being some form of duty; knowing Mr. Jordan was a soldier, you could make allusions to a soldier struggling with that duty, but I want to be careful and respectful when speaking about that so for now I just want to talk about Rand (if anyone wishes to provide their own insights, absolutely feel free).
One of the big phrases Rand has used is essentially doing what he has to do. I won't say that he's entirely rejecting being the Dragon Reborn, but throughout all of this, as a first time reader, I get the feeling that he believes himself trapped by the Wheel/fate, that his life has turned around so quickly that he hasn't really gotten time to process. One day, you're a shepherd trying to make sure your daily chores are done, then you're finding out that the devil himself wants you dead, you're claiming a sa'angreal that confirms you are indeed the Champion of the Light and then you're learning the truth about your people in the Age past. All of that added onto the fact that Prophecy says you HAVE to sacrifice yourself, and that sucks because even if you're ta'veren, the Dark One is trying to escape and that means every person alive, if that happens, will turn to you.
There's no choice, is there?
As a reader, it's depressing. Right now, Rand is questioning his own actions using his own friends, questioning the thoughts in his head, desperately trying to clutch to sanity as the taint eats away at him. And that hurts to see.
The way this story is going, the way that Jordan has gone off in a way that feel very natural and based in character, there could always be the case that Rand never truly comes to accept it in some way. I could see it happening that he continues his duties, but he never truly comes to an emotional space in his mind.
Yet, my instincts say differently. I was told that Rand will be on Dragonmount at some point. From that I guess he has some experience with Lews Therin and maybe that entirely confirms it for him; sets it fully in stone. Coming up to the Last Battle, my prediction for his character arc is that he will begin to question if he can BELIEVE in himself to save the world. He will need to question if he can believe it's worth sacrificing himself for the world. Because before the Last Battle, I think that Rand needs to be in a place where he strongly, firmly wants to walk into Shayol Ghul and face the Dark One of his own volition. If he does that, then it means he's believed that sacrificing himself is what is best.
I think that will come back to wanting to save the people he loves. I do think we know the three women he loves for sure (Min, Elayne, Aviendha) and we know that he considers everyone from the Two Rivers most precious. I think that if he chooses to sacrifice himself, protecting them would be his reasons.
Doesn't really have much to do with Fires (which has been really fun btw, I've been drowning in my read of it) but I have been wondering about Ishamael since the other Forsaken have been showing up more often.
Was Ishamael just himself or did the Dark One really speak through him? In that regard, who even is the Dark One? Following Ishamael's death, I've been wondering about the Dark One and who he really is. What's his history across the Ages, what is his power capability and does he even have a physical form? I have seen that one comic panel with his hand, but that's it.
Ishamael seemed to be one of the more powerful Forsaken, but I can't remember if it was confirmed that the Dark One spoke through him or not. With all the story happening (I'm on chapter 42 right now) I feel like the Dark One's presence is overarching yet not present at the same time. Maybe waiting for the right moment or something? We know the seals are weakening tremendously right now.
If RAFO, I'll take that for sure
HE REMEMBERS ILYENA
HE MENTIONED CAN BREAT AND ASMODEAN SHOOK HIS HEAD
BROTHER WHAT IS HAPPENING??? The Taint is taking effect? Or is it the Taint? I mean maybe it doesn't necessarily HAVE TO BE, and what other reason does he have for leaving Callandor behind??? A trap or something? Does it have to do with the snakey people Mat oh so loves and adores? Find out next week on Rand al'Thor goes bazonkas???
AND THE CUENDILLAR SEALS
Which one of you is messing with the seals? Come on, spill it out, I know it was you🫵
But uh...if Heaven is on fire...should...shouldn't we call the fire brigade? Or does Rand put out the fires too? Maybe putting out the fires is the true Last Battle we made along the w-
Firstly, thank you all for joining me on another journey through the Wheel of Time. This has been such an incredible book to read, and I'm giving it a perfect 5/5 because it somehow keeps me entertained entirely.
For general thoughts, idk what Robert Jordan was doing when he wrote this book but he really hit the nail on the head and blew my mind away. I want to talk about that, but with the end I have lots of thoughts and theories, so please bear with me.
A theory about the Dark One
One thing I wondered about when reading Rand trying to catch up to Asmodean, Rand seeing the Age of Legends and Lanfear's name was the Dark One himself. He did not appear in this book, as it seems Ishmael is truly dead (but I'm skeptical). During the flashbacks, it was shown the moment when the One Power - or saidin - was tainted.
My working theory is that the Dark One is something like the Creator, in that they do not have physical forms. I have seen art by Michael Whelan of Rand descending into Shayol Ghul to face the Dark One, but I don't think he has a real physical form. I think the Dark One - like the Creator - is pure power, which is why the Taint and Untainted Power exist against one another. If that is the case, I don't know how Rand can fight him. It would make some sense that Lews ended up sealing the Dark One, but I don't know how Rand can fight him. Callandor would make sense then, if it works something like how Shardblades from Stormlight works.