r/wheeloftime

So... I'm one of those people who watched the TV series before reading the books 😅

I absolutely loved the show and I'm still heartbroken that it got cancelled. Season 3 completely pulled me in, and now I really want to find out how the story continues.

The thing is, I don't really want to start from Book 1. I know the books and show differ, but I'd rather pick up from roughly where Season 3 ends and continue from there.

I've seen some people suggest starting with Book 5 (The Fires of Heaven), but I've also seen others say that's a bad idea because the adaptation rearranged and changed things.

For someone who's mainly looking to continue the story from the end of Season 3, where would you recommend starting? Is Book 5 the best jumping-in point, or would you go with a different book?

The main reason I'm hesitant isn't just impatience (although that's definitely part of it). I'm queer, and one of the things I loved most about the show is its queer representation and deep meaningful connections. From what I've heard, those aspects are much smaller or handled quite differently in the early books.

I'm worried that if I start with book one, I'll spend the whole time comparing it to the show and thinking, "Aw, I wish they'd developed this relationship the way the series did," instead of just enjoying the books for what they are.

I'd rather jump in closer to where the show left off, enjoy finding out what happens next, and then maybe come back to the earlier books later with different expectations.

And if I do jump in somewhere around there, what are the biggest changes between the show and the books that I should know beforehand?

A few years ago I received three boxes filled with books. It was a gift, from a lady that I knew for some years. She was married with a man that till this day, is the biggest fantasy fan I've ever met. Sadly, he passed away in 2017, and those boxes were, let's say, their way to honor everyone that he loved.

And I got his favorite series, the series that he completed while he was on the hospital before passing away. The complete The Wheel of Time.

I knew how huge WoT was, how big and amazing, filled with details, names, events, everything. Even more packed the LOTR. So I knew that I should prepare myself before daring starting it.

So, I read Dune, LOTR, The Stormlight Archive and Mistborn, started the Black Company, all before opening The Eye of The World.

WoT was his crown jewel, his beloved, his mostly profound fantasy fan desire.

17 days ago I finally started The Eye of the World, and finished right now.

And holy mother, it was amazing. Perfect. at every detail.

I felt that sharing this here would be the right thing.

Thank you, Carlos.

Ok, kids. I've decided to be REALLY stupid and try to do this shit again. Let's get into this.

There are very few things that are quantified in the WOT universe, especially with channelling, but I think I've come across something that may be at least some kind of visual indicator showing how channellers grow in strength and output as they climb the rankings.

We know one of the more difficult feats of the power is lifting objects with flows of air; it's considered very simple, but very difficult. We have a few examples of channellers lifting things: Moiraine lifting the gilded chair, Elayne lifting the copper kettle, Rand lifting the tent components, etc. I began wondering if the ability to lift was a possible avenue to determine strength, so I focused on two feats (or, in the case of the latter, the telling of a feat): Morgase fluttering the scarf in Malden, and Suian claiming she could lift three times her body weight at her original strength.

The reason these two are comparable is that they both represent an absolute upper limit for the lifting capacity of two channellers of the same sex, with one being the absolute lower limit of channelling. Of course, in doing this, I made several assumptions and am blatantly ignoring some issues of affinity and stressful vs. casual limits, but I got too carried away and had to just share it with someone.

The biggest issue here is figuring out the force used on the scarf; this is where assumptions need to be made the most. We know Galina was using a red scarf as a signal and that it was tied up—we're not sure against what—and that Morgase used it to draw someone in to rescue the girls. In the books, it's said the scard when rigid sideways before swinging like a pendulum and releasing to go limp. This manoeuvre took Morgase a very long time to produce and can be assumed to be her absolute limit.

The first assumption is the weight of the scarf. We don't know its material, but I'm making the assumption it's ~20-30g. I'll use 20g in my calculations and then give a full range at the end. For going taught and swinging like a pendulum, I'll figure out the force required to lift a scarf to 30 degrees to swing back and forth from a vertical resting position.

To calculate the force required in N, you'll need the following:

mass (m) x gravity (g) = weight (N)

m = 20
g = 9.81

0.020 x 9.81 = 0.1962N (Scarf's weight)

Weight (N) x Angle from vertical (Tan(90)) = Force to move the Scarf

0.1962 x Tan(30) = 0.113N (Force applied to the scarf to make it taut and swing gently)

Next, we need to figure out Suian's lifting capacity. We know she can 'lift 3x her body weight', so let's assume her body weight. She's described as 5ft5in and sturdy of build. This would put her somewhere between 140lbs and 160lbs. I'll start with 140, or 63.5kg, and go from there.

63.5 x 3 = 190.5Kg

190.5 x 9.81 = 1868.8N (Force to lift 3x Suian's body weight)

Now, we need to figure out how to go from Mogase's strength to Suian's, and how to find the non-linear increase between the two. I'll break the ranking system into 78 levels from 72(60) to ++6. Suian is 13(1), equal to 19. Morgese is 72(60), equal to 78.

78 - 19 = 59.

Now, we need to figure out how to get from Morgase's 0.113N to Suian's 1868.8N, an increase of 16512.4x. We know that increase is non-linear, so we'll use exponential multiplication:

0.113 x X****^(59) = 1868.8N

Rearrange.

X****^(59) = 1868.8 / 0.113

X****^(59) = 16512.4

X = 16512.4^(1/59)

X = 1.179 = 17.9% increase for each step.

If the scarf was 30g and Suian weighed 160lbs, the increase would be 17.35%.

Due to the way the increase is proportional to the pair, the lowest range would be if the scarf was heavier and Suian was lighter at 30g and 140lbs. This comes to 17.08%. While the greatest range of a 20g scarf and a 160lbs Suian comes to 18.18%.

The higher Morgase's scarf weight and the lower Suian's body weight, the smaller the jump proportions. I've shoved all four different models into a log graph for you to see clearly.

https://preview.redd.it/g9j5aa7y49bh1.png?width=3936&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa10640f2c69a4d04fc333c819d9781212f03d55

And if you're wondering why I'm using a log graph, it's because using a standard graph gets you this:

https://preview.redd.it/68byzgj159bh1.png?width=3936&format=png&auto=webp&s=7eb9bef8ae25538ef08eb8fad7d435f6563208d0

Not helpful...

Anyways, this is kinda stupid since channelling it is pretty abstract, but I wanted to play with it a little and see what I could make. Also, here's a list of the full scale range and a few corresponding channellers:

https://preview.redd.it/5v6ulxif89bh1.png?width=3113&format=png&auto=webp&s=4ed3c780b8a38de83bcd939373c166247b752647

Any thoughts?

When Egwane was battling Mesaana and other Blacks in White Tower in dream, she stumbled upon Perrin.

Instead of telling him to run away, or alerting him about the foresaken, she tried to bind him with ropes. Why did she do that?

If Perrin had been a noob dream-walker, he might have been stuck there until the Foresaken or any of the Blacks found him.

And before that she asked him whereabouts of Rand.
That was stupid too.

I had a weird urge to collect mass market paperbacks (MMPB) since bookstores were so clearly moving away from them because of money and greed and they are all but gone now except in used bookstores. And while I haven't read any of Wheel of Time (though had Eye of the World on my shelf for a while), I am trying to collect the MMPBs... but I am now suspicious...

were the last three books (with Sanderson) ever released as MMPB with the good art? or only the generic color and ourobourus type image in the background (and also that horrible tall aspect ratio)?

am I doomed to failure to collect the whole series in this format with the art on the covers?

https://preview.redd.it/u4x8p5uze2bh1.jpg?width=3905&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6770a1b470baffe0587d801b168264ce05572ac9

Forgive the plastic bag, Knife of Dreams just came out of the freezer.

Three years back, when I was just getting into fantasy, I listened to books 1-7 fairly quickly. I have a long commute so audiobooks work best for me. The final third of book 7 just really started to drag for me and I found myself taking breaks and then really struggling to recall who people were, where characters were, and honestly I couldn’t even differentiate some cities. I’m totally okay with letting this series wash over me. I don’t feel compelled to know every character and detail, but I was definitely feeling discouraged and overwhelmed and on top of that I felt like was in an endless loop of the bowl of the winds side quest that seemed so unnecessary.

It’s been nearly 2 years since I listened to book 7 and I know I have “the slog” waiting for me which has caused me to delay returning to the series. Any advice for how to refresh my memory about important topics lot points if I’m going to start book 8 and push through? I would love to at least go into the slot with a solid refresh of the first half of the series. If I don’t, I worry I’m just going to passively consume the next few books and wind up too lost by the time the series gets back into fine form.

Any and all advice is appreciated!!

Hi.
I read the first two books nonstop <3 and have been avoiding reddit for spoilers, but I have to ask about the upcoming “slog” that people have scared me about.

I am unable to put the books down right now and I can’t imagine how any of these characters’ POVs could become boring or complicated enough for me to stop reading.

So, without spoilers beyond book 2, what is coming in those parts?

Okay I may not fully understand how this works, but why doesn’t Elayne, Egwene, Rand, etc. visit Morgaise’s dreams in Tel'aran'rhiod to confirm her death?

It feels like it’s just accepted that Morgaise is dead from rumor alone… while there are all these other rumors about Rand that they are questioning.

Like Egwene KNOWS Rand didn’t kill Morgaise and tells Gawyn as much. But doesn’t even question Morgaise being dead in the first place?

Am I missing something or just need to RAFO?

Nothing big. Just celebrating my almost first full read through of the books. I started reading these back in the early 00's after a friend left the first one in my room. I was hooked. Instant love. And then, somehow, I read over the many years all the way to the end of the penultimate book. And then stopped. Never opened book 14. I don't know why. 2 years ago I started from book 1 again for a very casual reread. Fast forward to today and I'm back in the midst of Towers of Midnight and I'm so thrilled to be closing off a big chapter of my literary education and passion. Just wanted to share with you all.

> “He came out as you see him. Will you touch him, Verin?”

> Verin gave her a long look, then rose and strode to Trayal. He did not move as she laid her hands on his wide chest, not even a flicker of an eye to acknowledge her touch. With a sharp hiss, she jerked back, staring up at him, then whirled to face the Elders. “He is . . . empty. This body lives, but there is nothing inside it. Nothing.”

How did Verin do that in a Stedding, if she couldn't channel?

I've been sorting all of my Wheel of Time ccg cards. Made by Precedence in the late 90s, early 2000s.

Does anyone have any of the cards? Im looking at putting together 4 complete sets of 1st edition and Dark Prophecies.

I have thousands of extras to trade for the cards I need.

Also interested in trading for a Children of the Dragon complete set, as I only have like 30 cards or so.

If any interest, post here or DM me, and I can get a list of what I need.

Second read through! I never understood why people said that TGH is where the series really kicks off because I loved the TEoTW the first time. Second read, I completely understand and agree.

Yesterday I got to the *blink* and omg!!!! So damn excited.

After my first read through I spent a good bit going through all of the Cosmere and got hooked on that but just could stop fanticising about my second read through of TWOT 😂🥰 So glad to be back for round 2 omgggg

Bring on the "flicker, ficker"

Also super excited to go into it after learning that only a few years pass during the series which makes puts a whole perspective on literally EVERYTHING especially Rands madness

Oh and the easter eggs and foreshadowing that was missed before. Love it.

The question might sound weird but let me explain what I mean-

So Aginor made Trollocs by mixing human with beasts like Boar, Bear, Wolf (Strange in retrospect no?) Eagles and Ox- so on. And Fades have a 5% chance of being born from a litter of Trollocs. Being a "throw back" to the "human stock." Now correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I read somewhere that's a similar ratio to normal humans and those who can Channel right? Also Fades can't channel and it doesn't seem to be a biological block like Ogier. More like they simply aren't able to but instead are born in general and have weird abilities like being able to use shadow travel, sense channeling and "link" with Trollocs which seems very close to the One Power in usage. Traveling, Linking, Shadow Bending and so on. Trollocs can't Channel but they are mostly animal, Gholam were made specifically to be resistant to channeling so that makes sense why they wouldn't. But Fades despite being mostly human and having other abilities like channeling can't actually seize the one power.

I bring this up because Aginor himself thinks they simply don't exist in reality and or are out of phase with it. They don't have a sense of humor which even Trollocs do and was a big thing with Rand not losing himself or his humanity; Cadsuane wanted him to laugh and get his humor back. Though I think the biggest thing is they don't dream. Which we can assume at least as far as I know that everything else can dream including their parents Trollocs. Graymen can't dream but they're already dead and have given their souls to the Dark One hence what they are.

Therefor I purpose the theory which might already exist but I haven't see it- that Fades are Channeling Humans or those with potential to be channelers born from Trolloc stock and there for still bore with no soul but animated by the Dark Ones touch. Not his literal touch but whatever Aginor was able to use to create them that I would think the Dark One provided. Nothing we see in the story from the One Power implies the ability to create biological life- the Nym seem to be weird golems while Trollocs are actual Homonculi. The Dark One also can link with Corvids and Rats as well as with the True Power letting you control animals. (Though I guess you could have just used straight genetic tampering from the AOL but then why are they called constructs? Though so are the Nym too I guess...) Still my own theory stands I think!

Does Rand ever stop being a huge douche to his friends? I’m on chapter 27 and I love Rand but it’s like he hates anyone who he is friends with except for Min but that just makes the problem way worse.Perrin has put his neck on the line constantly and all he gets is shouting matches.