Hello everyone,

I started reading the books slowly but surely a little less than a year ago. I faced and survived “the slog” without ever really feeling the infamous slog myself. Sure, some of Perrin’s chapters were a bit boring, and the succession war had an ABSURD number of characters, but I never truly felt bored.

So I was really excited to finally reach the end of the slog and see what everyone was talking about. Yesterday, I finished Egwene’s chapter “Honey in the Tea,” and I have to say: I can’t remember the last time I was this hooked by a book.

Egwene is an absolutely fascinating character, and even though the chapter is not exactly packed with action or battles, the way she slowly weaves her web while being Elaida’s prisoner completely blew me away. What I loved even more is that her ability to manipulate and influence people doesn’t come out of nowhere,it feels like the natural culmination of her experiences as a damane, a Wise Ones apprentice, and Siuan’s student.

Watching her go from a prisoner everyone tries to humiliate to someone who doesn’t destroy the White Tower, but instead gradually unites it around herself, is incredible.

From what I understand, Egwene is… not exactly popular here (to put it mildly), but this chapter alone completely renewed my excitement for the series. If the rest of the book, and the remaining books, are this good, I’m thrilled!

I've only just started book three,so I guess maybe this question will get answered in a later book. Though I somehow doubt it.

Do you think that when traveling through the ways for days on end they just squat and poop over the edge of the islands? Or do you think Lan makes them bundle up their dookie to leave no trace for the enemy?

If they do poop over the edges, does it tumble down and splat onto other bridges and islands below, or just fade into nothingness?

Where does the pee go?

Are we supposed to be able to figure out the joke? Or are we mere wetlanders meant to be in the dark?

Those of you on your nth re-read do you pick it up better?

Edit: to clarify, I’ll answer a comment here as well

this wasn’t about a specific joke, but it was inspired by the Aiel ribbing Gaul when he asked where Bain and Chiad were, and they all laughed that they were “trapping rabbits.” He joked he’d have to go cut them out. It took me minute to realize he was implying Bain and Chiad would trap themselves like bunny’s

I got THIS joke but there have definitely been ones where I didn’t get them, and for me wondering if we were ALWAYS supposed to… or if NOT getting them was Jordan adding to the cultural mystique

That prologue was REALLY intriguing! I've always heard that the first few books were boring or kinda a slog to get through, and that still could be the case, but I am HOOKED because of that prologue.

I loved being dropped into this setting that I know nothing about, putting the pieces together and figuring out that Dragon killed everyone but he remembered none of it. It was all so emotional and I could understand his immense grief. I can't wait to read more!

... is an almost universal lack of conflict.

Romance is not the main event here, but Jordan has indeed romanced all of the top characters without any exception. But almost all romances have very harmonious runs. There are no credible rivals, even if there is a hint of a love triangle and typical conflicts are voided, before characters make contact.

No Obstacle

Egwene x Rand is just a proto-relationship, but the "breakup" was fully synchronized. Their lives slowly moved apart and then they had a talk mutually confirming the "breakup". No side was disappointed or wanted to continue the relationship. No conflict and no drama.

Min x Rand was prophesized by Min most notably to herself. She knew she would get him and she knew she would have to share. Fully aware of the reliability of her foretellings, she accepted - no conflict and no drama, not for Min and not for the audience who is privy to the prophecy.

Elayne x Rand was also prophesized, although she did not fully buy it. Elayne was cupided by Egwene (after Egwene broke up with Rand), made good progress, but then fumbled playing psychological games. So she had a phase of insecurity about how much damage the infamous letter did, but the audience knows that to be unnecessary. Just before the confrontation with Aviendha Elayne got the prophecy explicitly refreshed - cushioning the crash. Elayne also accepted the prophecy and although tempted to lash out, she did not. In my opinion, due to the letter, the "toh" was actually on Elayne, because from Rand's perspective he would have been free. Sending someone to secure your love interest after you have rejected him is a foul.

Tuon x Mat was prophesized from both sides, which voids the "culture clash proposal" part. There never is any doubt that they will end up together, not for the audience and not for either character. So Tuon could let the deadline expire, but it would change nothing. Prophecies are established as ironclad (at least from the sources involved). You still got entertaining culture clash, but Mat was the most ideologically flexible, so would not start debates on abstracts and they were not pushed into conflict / the conflicts were solved by early yielding (like Tuon not fighting when being abducted). Potential "enemies to lovers" was not rolled out.

Faile x Perrin also had no real obstacle and relied on dense (Perrin) then maneuvering for supremacy in the relationship (who yields first?) - drama drag

Berelain x Galad was immediately mutual

Egwene x Gawyn again had the characters maneuvering for position in their relationship, with bidirection spillover into their professional lives. Selfmade "obstacle".

There are several minor relationships which have potential for conflict, but it is not rolled out.

Juilin x Thera seems to be a rescue crush, no conflict shown

Gabrelle x Logain and Corele x Flinn are both potential "enemies to lovers" with the male side being "feared" male channelers and Gabrelle even being a prisoner. The women offer their bodies for obtaining knowlegde and then they slide into romantic relationships.

Pevara x Androl would also have "enemies to lovers" being male channeler and Red Ajah, but in this case in my interpretation/experiences their subconsciousnesses alread had a deal. They then consistently pushed them subconsciously closer at every opportunity and they crashed right through circle - warder-bond - wife-bond always opting for getting closer when the other did something supposedly repelling.

Obstacle

Aviendha x Rand was one of the few relationships which actually had a valid obstacle. Aviendha had the mission to secure Rand for Elayne, she was tasked with driving off potential rivals. The twist that she turned out to be that rival is indeed fun. She had to drive herself off. And it is indeed funny, to see her open defensive fire "You are for Elayne" with no rival in sight - except herself. Here the entertainment works, when you like the tsundere trope. Her surroundings are mercilessly pushing her, with wise ones cupiding, spear sisters shipping and Rand making ambiguous (actually not so) gifts. Her chaperone-self ended up in the dust, trampled by wannabe-lover-self. Got a bad conscious for failing her mission, but was acquitted - due to the prophecy.

Nynaeve x Lan had a solid obstacle, Lan's 24/7 job with no leave and his suicidal tendencies. I like Nynaeve's "I want it all and I want it now" attitude, which makes her break down, although she got encouraging feedback, when confessing and also that she dragged him to the next person authorized to perform marriages the very moment she had the opportunity. She got the first obstacle solved by Moiraine's disappearance and solved the second herself. She seemed to be on track to get everything she was tortured in the third session of her Accepted test - for real.

Gaul x Chiad also was one of the few relationships with a solid obstacle and was not resolved in the runtime. On Chiad's side the conflict between romance and professional life (spear sister) and her sistership with Bain and on Gaul's side not being into Bain. I would project the trajectory to conclusion, but that is speculation.

The transition from Rosamund Pike to Kate Reading and Michael Kramer is a bit rough. The emotion and effort Rosamund put into each character was incredible, and losing that mid-series stings. Now I’m in the first chapter of The Fires of Heaven going through a full mourning phase, not because Kate is a poor narrator, it’s way too early to say that, but because it feels like starting over in the middle of an incredibly complex story.

I’m going to keep going because I love this series too much, and every book pulls me deeper into needing to know what happens next. So consider this a disclaimer for anyone taking the audiobook journey: if you start with Pike, the transition will be rough.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

My question for everyone else is whether the narrator change affected how connected you feel to the characters or the world of the Wheel of Time?

Finished my Nth reread and this time I was struck by everyone's reaction to the dragonsworn. Nobody seems to be capable of mentioning them without adding that they're crazy people that cannot be understood. Early on in the story I get it. These are doomsday cultists that are making a radical choice, but once you're about halfway through the story it ought to be clear to everyone that the Dragon was reborn and the dark one is absolutely touching the world and everyone knows the prophecies.

Mat even pauses in the middle of battle on the field of Merrilor, surrounded by hundreds of thousands of corpses, to remark that he just doesn't know what to think of them.

What's not to get? All previous allegiances are broken and they're doing their duty just like you. They just realized it about six months sooner.

A perfect example is the shadowspawn attack on the Stone of Tear.

While Rand was talking with Lanfear in The Stone they're interrupted by the beginning of the attack sent by Sammael.

During the fight, Rand gets separated and is caught off guard by a Trollock. Then saved by a another Trollock. The first sign that there are two Shadowspawn armies, who are fighting against each other. One trying to kill Rand, the other to protect him.

Lanfear shows up again, berating him for forgetting about Callendor. Rand asks if she sent the Trollocks who are protecting him, which she basically confirms by saying she can't confirm because she doesn't want him getting dependant on her. And that she can't ever be seen openly helping him.

It's reinforced when Sammael and Greandal meet to discuss the other Foresaken, how it was obviously Lanfear protecting him.

[Lord Of Chaos Events] >!It's not until later in book 6 that we get the real story. It was Semirhage who sent the 2nd Trollock army. But, here's the real kicker... Not due to her own scheming. She was commanded by The Dark Lord himself! Shaitan protected Rand from Sammael. And other than Semirhage, none of the Foresaken ever knew!<

What other reveals exist like this? Where basically all the characters and we the audience "know" what happened. But the truth is revealed later. And so subtly that basically everyone misses it on the first read-through?

I host a podcast wherein I take three newbies through the series and we just last week reached the point where the EF5 split up and go their separate ways from the Stone of Tear.

When Perrin leaves, which is the same time as Nynaeve and Elayne board the Waverider, there is an earthquake that shakes everything.

In all my rereads, I thought it was either Perrin tearing himself away from the Ta’veren pull of Rand, or Rand receiving Elayne’s second letter and having an adverse reaction to it (Accidentally drawing The Power and putting it into the ground like he did at the start of The Dragon Reborn which is what allowed him to escape undetected).

That was, until one of my newbies said she thought it was because of Rand thrusting Callandor into the Heart to hold their hearts, so I went back and reread that section (which I’ve read like four or five times before including the previous week for this episode), and sure enough, he draws Power through Callandor, thrusts it into the ground, and the earthquake happens.

So, yeah. Listen to the newbies (not all the time (“The fade at Four Kings was Bayle Domon in disguise to fake Thom’s death so he and Thom could go down to Illian and compete in the Great Hunt for the Horn bardic competition” is a real thing one of them said once)), because sometimes they’ll teach you.

No, I’m not going to talk about Rafe.

It’s just that there’s this new tv show about Jesus and his adventures called “The Chosen”…

And my brain somehow keeps on reading “The Forsaken”.

You know. At this point any time I hear somebody claiming chosenness - I think of the Forsaken.

Weird that.

I was thinking the other day about a specific scene that I wish I had been able to read but unfortunately can't mainly because Robert Jordan is dead and Brandon Sanderson is plenty busy. I'd be shocked if an author ever returns to this world.

The scene I would particularly love to read would be Rand and Aviendha's wedding. The Aiel custom has the groom and his family pitted against the bride and hers. The groom must fight his way through and then subdue the bride. For whatever reason the thought of Rand, Tam, and Galad all taking on a family of Aiel tickles my fantasy brain so much. Three fully realized blade masters against the most formidable warrior culture of the area. The one power is banned for this ceremony I think.

I think this would be so cool and was wondering if there's anything else you guys have thought of that would have been cool to see.

The scene where Rand goes to see the two Aes Sedai in Camelyn and it turns out to be a group of girls from Emonds Field who he has a couple of minutes of commiserating with until Alanna and Verin arrive and then the entire situation takes a crazy turn back to Rand being the Dragon Reborn again instead of the boy that had been reminiscing.

When Rand is walking back through the history the Aiel, he sees a soldier with a helmet like a giant insect head.

Clearly this is a reference to the Seanchan helmet, but this takes place two thousand years before Artur Hawkwing sent his armies across the Aryth.

Does this have any significance or is there a reason why it’s there?

I’ve read all the books multiple times so feel free to spoiler-mark answers if it comes up in the future.

Mods- can I get the flair changed to All Print?

Has any one heard anything about them since Brandon announced the plates were bad? That was a lot of money for a book for me and radio silence really sucks.

I fear The Great Hunt will be announced before I even get the Eye of the World.