u/gabeg777

In Superman (1939) Annual #11, Bruce and Clark were both grabbed by a Black Mercy flower. In Batgirl (2009) #24, Steph was taken by one. The Black Mercy tries to keep its victims from escaping by putting them in a perfect world that they don't want to escape or fight and protect people in, so that it can feed off of their still and reasonably relaxed body. I would assume that it uses its victim's memories to create that world, so it's a dream which their brain creates with the Black Mercy pushing in a direction to keep them relaxed, still, and alive until they die from losing too much internal energy to the flower.

Clark's mind created a dream where Krypton and his family there survived. He was married to Lyla Lerrol, who he had met when he visited Krypton in Superman (1939) #141. Even with the dream world's imperfections and unhappiness, that satisfied Clark and kept him from wanting to change the world as he's driven to become Superman because of having lost Krypton and his birth family. Without that loss, he doesn't have the drive to fight and save the world though he still wants to help people. He wants to protect his family in that dream.

Bruce's dream focused on his parents surviving and, as in every in-character version, he doesn't have the drive to become Batman unless he loses his parents or has an external influence. Jason had to free Bruce from the flower as keeping his parents is a perfect world for Bruce. He'd still help people but not as Batman. Detective Comics #500 showed the alternate Bruce becoming Batman because the Batman he met saved his parents and taught him that people can live if a hero is there, similar to the drive May Parker has in her Spider-Girl series but not the drive to prevent tragedies that orphaned Batman has. In Superman & Batman: Generations by John Byrne, Clark's father learns about Batman and informs Bruce's parents of that future and that it only happens if they die. Bruce's parents choose to walk into the alley that Jonathan Kent showed them, believing that Batman is necessary to Gotham and sacrificing themselves to give their son the drive to become that hero. The dream in the 2026 annual for Detective Comics, where Bruce becomes Batman even though his parents survive and he had no one influencing him to become a hero, could lead to Bruce resisting the Black Mercy through his dissatisfaction with the world and need to improve it, but is not what any other Batman story shows. The annual was poorly written and appeared to be focused on glorifying Batman instead of characterizing him.

I'm not certain how the Black Mercy could influence Diana to stay in her dream and not become Wonder Woman and escape. Steve's influence on her is very important to her. Maybe she'd be satisfied eternally staying with her mother on Themyscira but I suspect that leaving to help people everywhere is essential to her satisfaction with life. She'd probably escape the flower on her own.

If Dick got exposed to the Black Mercy, he'd probably dream of his parents surviving and that he'd stay with the circus in his dream. Like Bruce and Clark, any imperfections would lead to him trying to help his family, not the world. I don't think he'd try to escape the flower.

Jason would probably dream of his parents, Catherine and Willis, surviving so that he didn't become homeless. On its own, that would still lead to his being unhappy and fighting to improve Gotham, with or without Batman's influence. If his brain thought of the idea of Willis not getting fired and becoming a criminal, that could lead to the dream Willis remaining a good father and Jason being happy in his dream world.

Tim could easily be satisfied by a dream world where his parents pay more attention to him. School is an enjoyable environment for him and he makes friends easily so he'd have no need to seek out Bruce and become Robin. A perfect world for him would also involve Bruce never losing Jason so he'd have no reason to want to resist the Black Mercy.

Damian has two possibilities. If we run on Grant Morrison's version, with Talia raping Bruce and treating her son horribly, his current mind would never be happy unless he left and fought to change the world, which would force him to fight the Black Mercy. On the other hand, if we run on the current version, where Talia truly cares about Damian and she has the morals from her original appearances, than his dream could involve Talia helping Damian take over the League of Assassins from Ra's and Damian working to improve it. That could satisfy him without him fighting to change the world.

Barbara's Black Mercy-influenced dream would probably be one where she remains a librarian, heroes aren't as necessary to save people, and she remains focused on her job and her father. She'd be willing to let the flower feed on her.

I'm skeptical that Cass could imagine her father not teaching her to become a killer and eventually having her kill someone. In any dream where she's relaxed, she's going to eventually run away from her father with her wish to die, when the flower needs her alive so it can feed off of her. Any world where she survives after her killing Faizul will eventually have her focused on protecting people instead of killing herself and fighting is the only way she knows to do so without external influence. I can't think of a scenario that she could imagine where she doesn't fight to help people as a hero, isn't fundamentally dissatisfied with living, and doesn't escape the Black Mercy's influence.

Steph would need to have a dream where either her mother fights back against her father or her father is a good and caring father to be satisfied with the world but I don't know how she could imagine that situation. Any dream she has would involve her becoming a hero in order to protect her mother, herself, and other people from her father. She'd escape the flower on her own, which agrees with canon.

Duke's parents would never have been attacked by the Joker in his dream. He'd still be involved in organizing and protecting his community but he'd never become Robin or Signal in his dream world.

Helena's dream would probably be one where her family survived. In that dream, she'd be protective of her community but not Gotham as a whole. She'd probably have many arguments with her parents and be trying to make them more of a protective force and less focused on rackets.

My thinking is that Cass, Damian as originally written by Grant Morrison with evil Talia, Princess Diana, and Steph are the only people here who would escape the Black Mercy on their own and become protective heroes even without external influence in any world that they can conceive of. Jason needs a lot of changes early in his life to avoid the need to change the world to be satisfied with it but it's possible that the Black Mercy could dig deeply enough into his memories to create that dream. The others would fall victim to the flower as they needed a push in their lives to gain the drive to make the sacrifices needed to be a hero, though they'd still be very helpful to society and protective of people in other ways.

I just read an interesting fic with Cass at https://archiveofourown.org/works/93697071. I agree with Cass having had no one she trusted fully, no safe and supportive people. when she was growing up. She loved her father but that's not the same as trusting him. She was taught to treat every stranger as someone who was going to attack and harm her.

Cass, especially when she's Batgirl, is intent on being a safe and supportive person for anyone who doesn't have anyone else to trust and to receive help from, on top of her wanting people to trust her when she doesn't feel worthy of being trusted. She's horrified when people are scared of her. She's very obedient to people's requests, including accepting ones she didn't expect when they grab her cape. She's happy to listen to people express their worries and feelings and opinions. Dick, Steph, and Tim are more skilled at helping children who have been hurt but Cass is vehement about being someone they can trust as a protector and person who will take their wishes and fears, no matter how minor, seriously.

This story solidifies my opinion that Cass' behavior with children should receive more attention and thoughtfulness instead of being ignored as simply her being the worst with children of all of the bats.

It may be a good thing that DC has never adapted No Man's Land. Most fans and all of DC's marketing team and adaptation heads, who focus on Bruce as the only hero who matters in Gotham, say that the emotional center of the story is the relationship between Bruce Wayne and Jim Gordon. What isn't admitted is that the core story includes another element that is at least as important. Helena Bertinelli's story arc, including her arguments with Barbara who thinks she's replacing her as Batgirl when she's actually trying to replace Batman, are either as important or more important to the overall story. Before Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #120, when the Robins arrived and took over the story for no valid reason except their popularity, Helena's story arc was certainly the emotional center of No Man's Land, not anything to do with Bruce. The main characters who mattered to her arc were Barbara, who erroneously thought of her as Batgirl, and Bruce, who didn't appreciate her attempt to replace him.

If an adaptation, unlike Greg Rucka's novel, actually focused on Helena's arc and didn't allow the Robins to take over the story when they arrived, Cass could have a more important role than she does, especially as Batgirl, in the version shown. Before Cass became Batgirl, Greg Rucka shows Cass interacting with both Barbara and Helena and a Helena or Cass-POV version of No Man's Land could focus on Cass having respect for both heroines and her refusal to follow Barbara's lead on insulting Helena. Having more discussion of Helena's opinion of Cass wearing her "The Bat" uniform, instead of Batman Chronicles #18 being the only discussion of Helena's thoughts and they're only being implied, would increase Cass and Helena's emotional role in the second half of the story where the Robins replaced them until Helena's arc was finally remembered in the "Endgame" story.

DC will probably never adapt No Man's Land, or if they do, will ignore the emotions between Barbara, Cass, and Helena, as all Gotham adaptations have to have Bruce at the center of the story, which is not the case for canon No Man's Land, especially before Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #120 changed it to a plainer and more boring story with little to no role for Cass as Batgirl.

I recently ran into a fic at https://archiveofourown.org/works/92427661/chapters/246368036. It caused me to realize that I have been underestimating the complexity of Cass' loyalties. I still think she isn't as obedient to Bruce as some Bruce fans believe, focusing on requests from civilians and her friends including Steph. I missed though that she's horrified when Barbara and, especially, Bruce are disappointed in her. She badly needs the approval of her parents. Cass had an intense emotional reaction when Barbara criticized her inability to read in Batgirl (2000) #54. She's desperate to regain Bruce's approval when he shows distrust of her competence as Batgirl in issues 6 and 42.

Cass is upset with herself when she hurts Steph's feelings in issue 38 and when she scares civilians in issues 18 and 53 but her reaction is much less extreme than when Barbara and Bruce are upset with her.

That's where Cass shows her loyalty to her parents, her need to have their approval when she doesn't know how to praise herself. She also wants to be trusted and liked by civilians and her friends but if she can only be praised by one person, she wants it to be Bruce.

Her inability to handle criticism from her parents is likely part of the abuse she received from David Cain, who she both obeyed slavishly and needed approval from. He taught her to not trust her opinions and killing Faizul caused her to hate herself.

In Batman: D.O.A., Bruce has been poisoned and, instead of worrying about his approaching death, he's focused on searching for and rescuing a kidnapped child.

In Batgirl (2000) #72, Cassandra gets stabbed and, while dying, she knocks out her opponent and makes sure the people she's protecting are safe.

In Batman (1940) #681, Dick fights the head of the Black Glove after having been shot in the head. Bruce tells Dick that if he doesn't get treatment soon, he'll be brain dead but Dick continues making sure the Black Glove can't harm people anyway.

In Batman (1940) #427, Jason has been beaten up, is dying from his injuries, and there's a bomb nearby. Instead of escaping or succumbing to unconsciousness, he moves to try to ensure his mother's safety.

In Batgirl (2009) #24, Stephanie wakes up from the Black Mercy flower on her own. She's more interested in protecting people than living a happy life herself.

Does anyone have moments like these for the other bats that we can remember when people try to say one of them is cruel or a coward?

Tate Brombal's Batgirl series is getting a lot of complaint. I don't have as much dislike of it as some do but I agree that it could be better. I think the main problem is one that it has in common with most modern comics, one which was less of a problem in pre-Flashpoint and pre-Crisis comics. Most authors come on board with the intent of telling a story and they twist characters around in order to fit the story. All of them seem intent on creating a long-running epic tale that they hope to have years to tell and, if the character blocks the story, they'll change the character instead of editing the plot. In older comics, where you had stories that began and ended in a single issue, multiple multi-issue stories, and occasional very long stories like Knightfall and the Death of Superman, authors were more willing to let the character control the story. I have read author's comments for well-written fanfics and interviews with Jeff Smith, author of Bone. They all say that much of their storytelling is envisioning the characters and letting them tell them what they'd do. If that meant sending the story in a direction they didn't expect, then that's what happened.

That's very rare in modern comics. The focus on epic plots over strong characterization is making modern comics less interesting and harming the characters. The best we get in most comics is characterization that is mostly correct.

James Tynion's Gotham Knights run in Detective Comics felt well-characterized but the Lonely Place of Living story which introduced Brother Eye to his run was a weak spot. He needed to have a cruel Tim as Batman and ignored how out of character it was. At first, it looked like the future Tim was from the post-Flashpoint Tim. The problem there is that Tynion had been writing Steph and Tim as having a healthy relationship, unlike in pre-Flashpoint comics where Tim rarely listened to Steph in arguments and ignored Steph in Convergence: Batgirl when she stopping running around as Batgirl. Tynion wrote Tim as valuing Steph's input as a partner and sometimes agreeing that she was correct in disagreements and changing his behavior to respect her. In Detective Comics #966 using what appeared to be true, Tim should have been discussing the Batman successor with Steph and treating her as a possible candidate, not just Damian and Dick and Jason. Of course, Steph would have been able to handle the Batman mantle more effectively than Tim and that would have destroyed the dystopia and activation of Brother Eye that Tynion needed for his story. Issue 980 made matters worse by strongly implying that both Brother Eye and future Tim actually were their pre-Flashpoint versions. In that case, Tim should have had Cass as his first and only choice as heir to Batman. Battle for the Cowl wrote Tim as trying to be Batman himself but that ignored the Teen Titans comic and Robin (1993), both of which regularly had Tim saying he doesn't want to be Batman. It also ignored Batgirl (2000) #58, where Bruce accepts that Cass wants to become Batman and has no problem with her wish, Batgirl (2000) #59, where Tim agrees that Cass is like Batman though he's not certain whether he considers that to be a good thing, and Red Robin (2009) #19, where Tim creates a Justice League to keep villains from controlling the Unternet, and instinctively selects Cass as the Batman for the Justice League. If Tynion had been letting the character control the story, Tim would have ultimately pushed either Cass or Steph to become Batman in the future and neither would ever have activated Brother Eye. Excluding Brother Eye, it felt to me like the rest of the story was very in character for the versions at the time.

Kelly Thompson's Birds of Prey run was solidly in character from what I know, excluding that Barbara and Dinah were arguing more than I would have expected for how well they know each other. The weakest spot to me was, whether it was higher ups not allowing additional characters to appear or Kelly thinking that she had to only use the team members, was their friends and family never appearing to check up on the people they care about and possibly have an adventure with the team. Gail Collin's Birds of Prey run and Keith Giffen's Justice League run both did better on that score. Scott Free should have appeared at some point to check on how his wife was doing and interact with his wife's new friend. Steph should also have made an appearance in order to see how her best friend was doing on the team and get to know her friend's new friend.

Matt Fraction's Batman run twisted Bruce in order to make Verity Pennyworth important and ignored that Bruce doesn't trust strangers easily or quickly. He needs time to get to know them so he shouldn't be as close to and trusting of Verity as is shown. He's also not doing very well with the relationship between Bruce and Damian, claiming that Bruce is still suspicious of Damian's instincts when he'd never trust Damian as Robin in such a case and the two have known each other for years now.

Tate's Batgirl run has its own problems of this type. The run began badly in issue 1 when it showed Cass leaping away from the monk when he got attacked instead of towards him. That doesn't fit the fact that she usually competes with Bruce and Dick for the most suicidal and pain-resistant bat. All three have been shown protecting people while they're dying from fatal or near-fatal injuries. Tate's story required having Cass upset at the Unburied for killing someone and ignored that she'd die before failing to save him but, instead of trying to editing the plot to work with Cass, Tate wrote an action that doesn't fully fit her but allowed his intended story to proceed. Most of the time though, we have been seeing protective Cass. Barbara and Steph being worried about Cass in issue 12 is in character for them but the story would have felt better if, instead of remaining in Gotham and letting Cass fret on her own, Steph had followed Cass with Barbara telling her where to go and gotten involved with the fight against the Unburied. That would have weakened Tate's focus on Cass interacting with her birth family instead of her adopted family though. Thankfully, issue 19 did show the bats forcing their presence on Cass even when she didn't show up for dinner.

Most modern comics, at least at DC, are too focused on telling a long-running story that the author wants with the author being unwilling to edit the plot when they hit an element that requires an out-of-character moment. It'd be very good if authors reduced their insistence on telling epic stories.

I'm curious. Who can Cass trust will come help her when she gets in over her head, especially when she's not in Gotham, whether or not she asks for help?

Bruce can trust that Dick, Tim, and the JLA will help him even when he rejects help. Damian usually gets help from Bruce when he's in trouble. Dick gets helped by the Teen Titans. Duke can trust that his We Are Robin teammates will help even if he doesn't call them. Steph used to be able to trust Tim, before they broke up, and now Barbara regularly helps her when she's in trouble. Tim can trust that Bruce and his Young Justice teammates will help him when he needs it.

I'm not certain who Cass has. During the Batgirls era, Barbara and Steph were reliable but that's unusual. When Cass was searching for her mother and died, lead the League of Assassins, and was in Hong Kong while Bruce was dead, no one cared enough to check up on how she was doing. In the Spirit World series, none of the bats checked up on her even afterwards. In Batgirl (2024) #12, Barbara and Steph called her to check up on her but they didn't force help on her. Writers have help forced on Bruce even when he claims he doesn't need it but Birds of Prey (2023) is the only series I can think of where the same is done for Cass.

It feels like Cass has no one who is consistently written as being willing to help her and worry about her when she needs it, whether or not she asks, while Bruce actually has people who care about him. Part of the problem is probably that Cass is rarely shown helping members of her family when they need help.

[EDIT}: I agree that, behind the scenes, Barbara and Steph are her main support network but interestingly, the most reliable on panel source of help for Cass when she doesn't want it may be Gotham's civilian population. In Detective Comics #955, Christine Montclair follows Orphan after her fight with Shiva in issue 953. She then treats Cass' injuries while she sleeps and gives her advice after she wakes up. In Batgirl (2024) #2, Ba Bao and her grandsons help Batgirl and Shiva fight the Unburied even though Cass' intention is to keep them safe. Batman gets helped by his Robins while Cass' Batgirl gets helped by the populace.

It seems that Selina encountered Cass in her father's apartment just before an explosion. It looks like Cass was right by the explosion and that it caused her some harm. Selina is thinking of mistakes she has made and she's apparently feeling guilty about the girl in David Cain's apartment, who no one else noticed.

Absolute Cass is not being kind. The condition we see Holly Robinson in at the end of the issue can't be comfortable or good for her. From what we know, it could be that Cass is filled with anger and blaming Selina for the harm she received from the explosion in her father's apartment and the Joker for the massacre of the League of Assassins. The series looks to be moving towards Selina learning that she can't ignore the past. Is it going to be contrasting that by having Cass learn that she can't focus solely on the past and should be trying to create a better future, at least for herself but hopefully also for others?

It's interesting that Lady Shiva is leading the League of Assassins while Ra's al Ghul is fighting Superman in the Absolute universe with no known ties to the League. Does anyone think that there's a chance that a later story, down the road, will have Ra's confronting Shiva over the League? That could be fun, especially if Superman gets involved as he seems to be more involved with Absolute Ra's than Batman is, and Cass could join in to help her mother against Ra's. Maybe we'd actually get some real interaction between Cass and Kal-El, unlike in the main universe where we only have art and Clark discussing Cass with Bruce, but not actually speaking to her, unlike all of the main Robins.

Did anyone else notice that there's a new season of Batwheels, assuming any preschoolers are actually watching it? Out of the 19 episodes that have been put up, 3 have a focus on Batgirl and only one focuses on Robin. I'm not used to Batgirl getting more attention than Robin.

There's even an episode where Batgirl's vehicle is giving orders to the vehicles of Batman and Robin.

A common analysis seems to be that Cass would definitely be against assisted suicide because she'd consider it to be murder and that her total focus is on keeping people from dying. I have been thinking and I'm starting to disagree with that opinion. People request assisted suicide because they're in extreme pain and doctors only agree to it if there's no chance that they'll recover.

The opinion that Cass would be against it ignores that preventing death isn't Cass' only goal. Going back to Batgirl (2000) #23, written by Kelly Puckett, Cass handles hostage situations by making sure the scared hostages see her and know that help has arrived. She's horrified when she accidentally scares children. In Batgirl (2000) #16, when the young boy is depressed and admits to wondering if having a murderous father makes him a bad person, Cass is upset and desperate to calm the boy. She is projecting with her answer and trying to reassure herself that she's a good person but she also wants the boy to feel better. Batgirl (2000) #19 is Cass projecting her guilt and the circumstances of her murder onto the killer on Death Row but also important to her characterization is that she agrees to allow the execution and continuing to think of herself as a murderer because she wants the mother of the dead child to feel better. She considers the woman's happiness and wishes to be more important than hers.

I agree that Cass would hate assisted suicide but when confronted with a patient requesting it and how much pain life is for them, she'd probably agree to allow them to kill themselves even though it would feed her suicidal mentality.

Who are the family and friends of each member of the Batfamily?

Alfred, Damian, Dick, Jason, and Tim are Bruce's main family members from what I know. Barbara and Jim Gordon and very good friends of his. I think it's possible to argue that the children of Gotham are also part of his family or that he sees them as close friends and that they consider him to be part of their family, though it's only through emotion on each side. Bruce, in his Batman uniform, is very happy to comfort children, listen to their worries, and spend time with them simply because they want him nearby. I'm not certain if it's ever shown in comics but an episode of Batman: The Animated Series shows children being very protective of Batman when he gets hurt. Bruce lost his parents and had no friends while attending school after being orphaned. I could see him connecting to Gotham's children, even when he doesn't adopt them, to fill the emotional hole from his childhood.

Cass had no friends and no family other than David when she was growing up. She then spent eight years homeless with no one caring about her or for her to care about. It's safe to say that she was extremely lonely when she met Barbara. Barbara and Bruce are family to her and Duke and Steph are her best friends in comics. I'd argue that the populace of Gotham are also family to her and that they consider her to be family, like Bruce with Gotham's children. As Batgirl, she's willing to spend time calming them down when they're upset, hates when she accidentally scares people (especially children), and is very willing to listen to requests and fulfill them even when she disagrees. Gotham's populace enjoys teasing Batgirl, is comfortable arguing with her, and has been shown worrying about her safety.

Steph hasn't abandoned Arthur and Crystal as her parents. Cass and Jason are friends. She's not lonely enough to need additional family but Gotham's children care deeply about her. When she was in the hospital as Batgirl after getting a Black Mercy flower attached to her, multiple children, including Nell Little, stayed at the hospital with her worrying about her safety. They were very happy and relieved when she woke up.

It appears to me that Bruce and Cass both attach to Gotham's people, only the children in Bruce's case, to replace the family and friends they didn't have when they were growing up. Is that a valid theory?

Who are the most important people in Bruce's life, the people who have helped him grow? I'm not a Bruce expert as Cass is my favorite Gotham character and she's never important in Batman comics, only in tie-ins and sideshow comics. I have a little knowledge but I'm willing to have it corrected as any of this could be way off the mark.

Cass fans like arguing that Cass is Bruce's favorite child because of how similar she is to him but that's using her viewpoint instead of Bruce's. Others argue that he doesn't have a favorite child because he cares all about all of his children equally but that seems to be using Batman: Wayne Family Adventures instead of the comics. I have a hard time not seeing Dick as his favorite child, the one he's known the longest and the first child he took in. Bruce gets a lot of character growth from having Dick around, including being less suicidal.

Jason, at least before his death, helps Bruce be a happier and more optimistic person.

Tim argues with Bruce in order to help him improve and be a better person. That was used in the final part of Chip Zdarksky's run on Batman with Tim being the Robin who was most persistent in trying to find Bruce and convince him to return to Gotham and fight Failsafe.

Damian is, from what I have heard though it could be very inaccurate, the first child who Bruce takes full responsibility for parenting which, if true, would have him growing as a character.

Bruce admires Duke but I don't know of any character growth that he gained from knowing Duke or any lessons he learned.

Cass fans argue that Bruce changed from learning Cass but, having read Batgirl 2000, I have a hard time seeing those changes. Barbara, on the other hand, learned how to be a mentor and big sister from knowing Cass. Unfortunately, changes in Barbara's characterization from knowing Cass were minimal because Gail Collins refused to discuss the relationship between Cass and Barbara in her Birds of Prey comic even though the Batgirl comic shows Cass as being extremely important to Barbara. Most of the references to Cass in Birds of Prey were Dinah discussing Cass helping her train in issue 61, instead of discussing Cass' role in Barbara's life and having her help Barbara. If Bruce did grow from having Cass in his life, the Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive story is the most likely source but Cass, while being an emotional center of the story, didn't interact much with Bruce in it. David Cain, Cass' father, framed Bruce and set up the situation where Bruce learned that he needed his family. It appears that Bruce gets more character growth from Cass' father then from Cass herself. The War Games story, at least temporarily, removed the character growth from Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive story by removing Bruce's family again when the prior story had been intended to cement the Batfamily in Batman stories.

My prior post was terrible. Barbara, Bruce, and Dick are the archetypes who will always be the only mainstream heroes in Gotham. Cass and the others are interesting characters with plenty to admire but their character path and interactions are their focus and that means they'll always be in a niche for those who connect to them. They're popular in comics which should satisfy me if I'm not being a brat. My whining and arrogance was heading me in the direction of being a resentful hater and a monster.

In terms of differences, I forgot that even good dad Bruce is unwilling to socialize with people and has trouble accepting gratitude when he's Batman, as shown after he rescues people during Bruce Wayne: Fugitive. In modern comics, he's still uncertain how to interact with regular people, excluding his romances with women which always fail at some point. He only interacts well with children. He only socializes as Bruce and that's when he's hiding his true self. I'm not certain how the romance in the current Batman series fits Bruce's character path though it's new that his civilian girlfriend knows that Bruce is Batman. Cass is more sociable as Batgirl than Bruce is as Batman.

Another difference is that, even though Bruce hates corrupt police, he's more obedient to police in general, and especially his best friend Jim Gordon, than to civilians. Cass, on the other hand, focuses on requests from civilians and not information from police officers.

Bruce helps upset children while Cass helps upset people of all ages.

Bruce trained himself to hide his emotions and have self-control while Cass' emotions are visible even with her cowl that covers her entire face. She's not as good a planner as Bruce but she responds quicker, though less carefully, when people are hurt.

Is this accurate when taking into account Bruce who's not a loner or am I still missing something?

Whenever I'm reminded that emotionally intelligent Batman who tries to cheer up children and hates scaring them is a version that exists, I'm reminded why Bruce is an admirable character but I'm also wondering why Cass as Batgirl exists. Every time I look at that version, it seems that Cass as Batgirl is almost identical and the only differences make her less able to help people. They have almost the same trauma so what's the point in connecting to Cass instead of Bruce?

New 52 Bruce had no friends in school and, in fact, left school early so his social isolation was comparable to Cass'. Neither understand people well. Bruce has high-level body language skills, though not Cass' reading it as her first language. Cass is more honest and less manipulative than Bruce but that also means she's a bad spy and less flexible than Bruce. Cass does seem more obedient to the requests of civilians than Bruce but that's probably why she's never shown with children as Bruce regularly helps children with their requests. Gothamites like the Batgirls but they, or at least children, love Batman and he chats with them happily. Cass' emotion reading from her body language isn't a difference from emotionally intelligent Batman who pays attention to children's emotions. Cass is known for being visible to hostages even when it means she fails to hide from their captors but emotionally intelligent Bruce was regularly written as doing the same in the 1960s comics and TV show. That's where all of the bat-traps came from.

I can see non-hero Cass being interesting as Bruce helps her but all of my analysis of Cass' trauma and admirable traits seem to be identical to good dad Bruce's. All of the differences seem to make her an inferior protector to Bruce and a boring hero. What am I missing that would allow family man Batman and Cass as Batgirl to be different and Cass to not be either inferior or a boring clone? Is it that I only connect with her because I found her from being a Superman fan but I should just admit that non-loner Bruce is the only character I should actually care about? Is it that Bruce fans exaggerate his good traits and empathy? Am I missing some other solution to my feelings of being over-insulting to Batman fans? Am I overthinking things and it's fine to prefer the Batgirls to Batman and Robin and should just accept that I'll always be in an extremely tiny minority? I'd be able to fit better with Batgirl fans who like Batman if I knew how to like Cass as Batgirl, think she's not terrible to children, and see some areas that she's potentially better than good dad Bruce. I know I'm being stupid but I could use help figuring out the heart of my failure. As it is, I'm tempted to say that the many fics where good dad Bruce and Dick are the only heroes and the other kids are children who Bruce adopts and helps are the only way to truly respect Bruce as Batman.

I'm still upset at how Batgirl (2000) #73 ended by reversing every ounce of character growth and thematic development Cass had experienced since her introduction in No Man's Land but I think I have figured out how to accept her temporary killing of Shiva as in character, though that should never have been the final issue. Her reaction and growth from handling her decision and mistakes needed to be explored. Unfortunately, we got Cass as a villain and Cass in Hong Kong instead. I know the metatextual explanation is that the page was preparing to either kill off Cass or turn her into a villain but I'm trying to figure out how to have it as an action that she takes that doesn't shred her prior characterization, especially after she refuses to kill Shiva in issue 25.

Does it fit that Cass is following her behavior that was shown in issue 19 where she values other people's wishes that will make them happier even when it goes against her moral code and hurts her? In issue 19, the mother wants the execution to occur while Cass is against allowing anyone to die but when she sees how upset the woman is at the idea of her child's killer living, she accedes and allows the execution even though she feels like a cruel killer for allowing it to occur. Similarly, Shiva wants to die and Cass is depressed enough from her feelings of failure in the earlier issues to be unwilling to argue unlike in issue 25 when she was unwilling to kill Shiva even though it's what she wanted. Cass' failure to save people in issues 71-72, her failure to help Victor Fries and his wife, and her failure to protect Bludhaven's people added up to her feeling worthless. Is this the explanation that everyone else already figured out or is there a more in character reason that I'm missing?

The deluxe edition of Batgirl: Year One is getting re-released in January 2027. Batgirl: Year One is coming out in a compact edition in February 2027. Cassandra's earliest stories are coming out in a DC Finest collection in January 2027. An omnibus of Cassandra stories is coming in February 2027. The most recent Birds of Prey series is getting an omnibus release in June 2027.

That's a lot of Batgirl-related announcements for Barbara and Cassandra, though not Stephanie. Is this related to Batgirl #25 coming out in November and, just like DC had a bunch of Supergirl announcements in the solicitations announced in July to help market the Supergirl movie, these will be officially announced in this month's solicitation list to go alongside the 25th issue?