u/jsgott

My understanding of The Beach Boys' production history (although I could be wrong about this) is that all the albums up to and including Friends were largely produced by Brian, although some of them were credited to the band as a whole. Tragically, following a lot of issues in his personal life, Brian was no longer able to be involved to the same extent he had been up to that point following Friends, and Carl really stepped up and became the band's producer for the next few albums.

My question is how did Carl learn how to be a producer so quickly, and also do such a good job? Did Brian teach him? Did he just sit and observe Brian when he was younger? Did Stephen Desper (their main engineer during those years) teach Carl the basics? Was it just something kind of innate gift that Carl had much like Brian did? I don't really know much about how music production worked in those days (or really in any period of history), but I have to imagine it was something that took a lot of patience and expertise, especially in those days where everything was on tape.

Me and Virgil is a song that I personally like quite a bit, but I get the feeling it isn't all that popular among Genesis fans. Personally, I find it really cinematic. It basically feels like an old western movie, with a whole story arc. I am not saying I consider it one of the very best Genesis songs, but I certainly think it is better and more notable than most people give it credit for. Is it just relatively obscure because it isn't on streaming and the band members (I think) have said they didn't like it?

One thing I struggle to understand about Genesis is the upbringing of the original members. Part of this is likely because I am American, and the band members, of course, were British. What I really struggle to understand is what sort of rung they were on socioeconomically. They went to a prestigious boarding school, so they were obviously quite well off. I also get the sense that Phil and Steve were kind of culturally different from the other members based on their recollections in later interviews. So were they wealthy, or just like upper-middle-class growing up? I'm sorry if this comes off as kind of a strange question, but this has been something that has always kind of confused me about this band's early history.

Yes, I know that H.E.L.P Is On The Way explicitly states it is an acronym for "Health through Education creates Love which benefits Peace". This explains what it means, but not what it is. Both times it is mentioned (the aforementioned song and also Take A Load Off Your Feet), it seems to be hinted that it is a store. Is it connected to the Radiant Radish, since H.E.L.P Is On The Way mentions that? If H.E.L.P is the Radiant Radish, then did it ever sell clothing like the store in Take A Load Off Your Feet does? I thought it was just a health food store.

I was thinking about how Brian had so many different distinct periods his voice went through. In fact, this is one of the most notable things about him, how much his voice changed over his career. I will go over the main periods I have noticed.

1961-1965: During this period, Brian had a very pure voice. He could hit very high notes with what seems like relative ease, and could convey emotions easier than perhaps in any other period. Don't Worry Baby is a great example of this period.

1966-1967: This period is similar to the first period, with the exception being that Brian's voice certainly seemed to gain a lot more "texture". Caroline, No really illustrates this to me. There was certainly a rougher and grittier quality to his voice. Personally, this is my favorite period of his voice.

1968-1973: Brian's voice began to feel a lot "thinner" during this era. While he was still able to do gorgeous vocals during this period, it no longer sounds like it was done with the same ease as before this. 'Til I Die is a great example of Brian's voice during this period

1974-1975: Brian's voice began to get a lot deeper during this period. In addition, it acquired a more gravely quality, with hints of his old voice still remaining. The demo of In The Back of My Mind from this period is a great example of this transitional period of Brian's voice.

1976-1982: During this period Brian's voice had evolved into a deeper, more gravely, and more mature tone. He was still able to do falsetto vocals occasionally (Airplane and She's Got Rhythm are examples of this), but not with the strength he used to be able to do so with, and it is clear his natural voice was now deeper. Still I Dream of It is a good example of Brian's voice during this period.

1983-2025: This era of Brian's voice spans a massive period of time, but I see it as one period, where the main change of Brian's voice being it gradually getting weaker as he grew older. His voice was nowhere near as deep as it was during the prior period, and his vocals began to have a more "shouty" quality than they ever did previously. Love and Mercy is perhaps the quintessential example of Brian's voice during this period.

So, what era of Brian's voice is your favorite? Like I said above, I think the 1966-1967 period was Brian's voice at it's peak, but I enjoy all of these periods a great deal. I think one of Brian's great strengths as a vocalist was that he was able to turn lemons into lemonade in a sense, being able to make the most out of his voice even when it was nowhere near as naturally strong as it once was.

It is my opinion that among the twenty-nine official studio albums, the Mount Vernon and Fairway EP appended to modern releases of Holland (so I personally consider it to be officially part of Holland) is the strangest and most unique thing (this doesn't mean the greatest, but I like it a lot, and it is definitely very unique for a rock group) The Beach Boys ever put out. I find it incredibly striking. It begins with this very melancholy piece of music, and launches into a spoken-word story.

The story fascinates me as well. I get the sense it meant more to Brian than just being a modern-day fairy tale. Several details (even the title) seem to allude to aspects of the boys' lives. If it is autobiographical, what do all the different plot elements allude to? The easiest one to match seems to be that the Pied Piper is Brian, since he voices him and he's where the magic in the story comes from. Is the prince Mike, since he lives on Mount Vernon and Fairway, and appreciates the Pied Piper/Magic Transistor Radio and it's magic at first but eventually gives up on it? Are the other siblings of the prince the other band members? I be interested if there was any source that describes what the different part of the story mean, if there is one.

It is possible some older fans might not be as familiar with this, but for people my age (I am twenty years old), SpongeBob SquarePants might be the single most prominent TV show we watched growing up. To other people around my age, it may sound like I am over-explaining, but I think it is best to give context for those who aren't familiar. Anyways, two of the characters in it are Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy, elderly superheroes voiced by TV stars from decades prior, Ernest Borgnine and Tim Conway. The whole joke is that these are superheroes who are kind of past their prime, but SpongeBob and Patrick look up to them because they understand that age isn't everything.

Anyways, a while back I feel like I saw a Reddit post (I can't seem to find it now) that pointed out that Brian Wilson (who obviously has a connection to SpongeBob SquarePants, both via his performance on that companion CD, and through Andy Paley), looked kind of similar to Mermaid Man as he got older.

This got me thinking of an interesting scenario: what if Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy had been voiced by Brian Wilson and Mike Love respectively? While there is almost no way this ever could have happened (my understanding is they already were very tense with each other by the late 1990s-2000s when this would have happened), and I like what we actually got, I actually think in a weird way this would have strangely fit with their respective personalities. Anyways, if this actually had been the case, what do you think it would have been like? Do you think it would have been as funny as I think it would have been?

Perhaps the biggest thing I struggle to wrap my head around with the whole Manson saga is how in the world Dennis didn't immediately say "you're a psychopath, so leave now, or I am calling the cops". If you've seen any of the prison interviews, you will see a man who was obviously (I'm not a doctor, but this is my own take) antisocial and about as narcissistic as a person can get, claiming to be God's inventor and best friend and simultaneously absolving himself of his crimes and gleefully talking about how he wishes he could have done more.

So what gives? Did Manson just have a really good "mask" hiding his true nature, which he felt no more reason to use after he was imprisoned forever? Was he like he was in the interviews around Dennis as well, but to Dennis this was considered "cool". Did he think his potential in music (I believe I read that Stephen Desper said he personally believed Manson had a lot of potential before his crimes) outweighed his personality? I just struggle to understand is how anyone could spend more than five minutes with this guy and not call the police, run from their house screaming, or both.

I wasn't paying attention at the time, but my understanding is that about six months ago, a treasure trove of unreleased Brian Wilson/Beach Boys songs were leaked onto the Internet, and were quickly removed. To be honest, I am kind of glad I didn't hear the songs during this time, because it would have been difficult to go without hearing them again for possibly forever. Still, what really stands out to me is the "Life Suite". From my understanding, the last three (or four?) songs on That's Why God Made The Radio were just a portion of a much larger suite that was planned, but ultimately left off of the final cut. It is also my understanding that some of these songs were briefly available during the leak. What did they sound like? In particular, one of them I heard about was called Stained Glass Window. What did that one sound like?

There is an apocryphal quote associated with Mike about sticking to the formula, the formula being the type of songs that caused The Beach Boys' rise to fame in the early 1960s. While the quote is likely not accurate, it is undeniable that since Mike really took control of The Beach Boys' direction, they have focused largely on early 1960s nostalgia.

Given this, it is striking how willing Mike seems to have been to participate on the experimental recordings The Beach Boys did. He even sang on a lot of them. My question is how Mike allowed these recordings to happen in the first place. My understanding is that there were basically two "camps" in The Beach Boys in the late 1960s-1970s. There was Brian and Dennis who obviously were very much in favor of experimentation and outright "weirdness". Al, Bruce, and Mike were more in favor of commercially-oriented recordings. Carl, of course, was the great mediator, the glue who held the band together during these years. At least that's my understanding of the situation.

Given all this, how were all these experimental songs post-Friends (when Brian really lost control of the band) able to even end up on the albums? I listen to something like Cool Cool Water and basically wonder why it wasn't voted off the album. Is the perception that Mike (and Al and Bruce) opposed experimental music just wrong?

Since The Beach Boys' albums started turning fifty, we have consistently gotten boxsets covering each album (and with the case of some of them, specific eras) of their discography. Currently we are up to the 15 Big Ones/The Beach Boys Love You era. I'm wondering how far this will go. Obviously, their post-1977 albums (despite containing some very strong material in my opinion), were nowhere near as well received as what came before. So, I was wondering if you think we will get a boxset covering their most negatively received era, that being the Still Cruisin'/Summer in Paradise era. The albums have not been officially uploaded to streaming platforms, which is why I was asking this question. I personally think it would be a great idea, since I think those albums contain some pretty good songs, in spite of their production quality. What do you think?

I watched The Odyssey yesterday. I won't spoil it, but I liked it a lot. Anyways, I was thinking today about how much of an influence classical literature and mythology seemed to have on Genesis' early work. My understanding is that the original members of Genesis (which during the classic lineup years translates to Peter, Tony, and Mike) spent their formative years in the type of educational institutions where the classics would almost certainly have been required reading, and they would have had a much greater familiarity with it by the time they became adults than most people. Was it just those three who were interested in it (you can tell just by the lyrics that Tony and especially Peter were interested in that kind of stuff, and I'm not sure about Mike, but he came from the same environment), or was it all of them?

One period of The Beach Boys' history that I feel is incredibly pivotal but somewhat overlooked is the period between 1978 and 1982. I get the vague sense it was a pretty tense time (a lot of tension during the M.I.U album sessions, Brian going missing right before they recorded the Light Album and largely being unavailable during the sessions, the whole situation with CBS Records, Dennis' health decline, and more). Still, I would be interested in learning more about this period. It seems like it's incredibly crucial towards understanding why it seems like they were never able to work together as prolific singer-songwriters to the extent they had before. There are still a lot of good, and even some incredible post-1977 songs (there's a lot of stuff on the Light Album in particular I really like), but I get the sense there was simply a lot less band material after that point, and especially after 1980.

One thing that kept on recurring throughout Brian Wilson's career is that he often became intensely focused on specific artists and songs. Early on, he loved Be My Baby and Phil Spector. Around the time Holland was being recorded, he became a big fan of Randy Newman and his album Sail Away. Around the Brian's Back era, it appears he went through a phase where he was interested in recording versions of pre-British Invasion oldies, and from what we've heard, he wanted to write Still I Dream of It for Frank Sinatra to record, and It's Over Now directly name-checks him.

However, perhaps the most famous thing Brian liked was the song Shortenin' Bread. We've all heard the stories about his love for that song, and we have two different officially released recordings of it, as well as several other songs that seem to have been deeply influenced by it.

The question I have is why did this happen? Unlike the other music Brian seems to have liked which was released during his lifetime, Shortenin' Bread dates to the early 20th century. I wonder how Brian came across this song, and why it resonated with him so much. There's also the question as to when this happened. The two released versions of the song, the Adult/Child version and the L.A. (Light Album) version, both date from the late 1970s, which is also when Ding Dang (which seems to bear a great resemblance to the Shortenin' Bread melody) was released. However, Rollin' Up To Heaven dates to 1974, and it also seems to bear a resemblance to that melody, so the question I have is when did Brian become interested in Shortenin' Bread, and why.

ATTWT and Duke are essentially the transitional period for Genesis, where they started including more airplay-oriented songs on their albums, while still including many progressive rock elements. One thing I have noticed is that fans seem to regard Duke much more highly then ATTWT. I find this strange. I personally think ATTWT has more prog in it than Duke, that the high points of ATTWT (Down and Out, Burning Rope, The Lady Lies) are stronger than the high points of Duke (Heathaze, Cul-De-Sac, Duke's Travels), and that the lowest points of ATTWT (I guess Many Too Many might be the weakest song on it, but I still like it quite a bit) are stronger than the lowest points on Duke (Man of Our Times and Please Don't Ask). So, what is the reason for why people regard Duke as being the stronger album of the two?