r/changemyview

CMV: There is no good Argument that people from the USA should be referred to as anything but Americans.

This is a terminally online post as no one in the real world cares about this stuff but Im making this post anyway.

Ive seen some discourse online that its wrong to refer to people from the United States of America as Americans, with people proposing other silly names like Usonian and United Statieans.

The main reason for this ive seen is people don't like that the US "claimed the name American when it refers to two entire continents."

This argument falls apart when you realize the names they're suggesting has the exact same issues. The USA isn't the only "united states" in the world, why refer to the people with an even broader term like United Statians?

The people of the United States of America should be called Americans, just like the people of the United Mexican States are Mexicans.

Id be surprised if someone posted a good argument but im all ears if anyone has a good reason.

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u/HoneyBadger19000 — 10 days ago

CMV: Being witness to a crime (legal, or ethical) does NOT make one "just as guilty"

I recently saw this posted:

When we see someone hurting someone else or about to hurt someone else, we have the duty to stop or prevent it to the best of our ability. When we don’t, we are just as guilty.

I'd heard this kind of rhetoric and position before, but seeing it recently, I felt the need to comment "I disagree extremely strongly that we are JUST as guilty. Perhaps there can be some guilt, but in the vast majority of cases it cannot be the same amount as the actual perpetrator." The backlash was huge. All replies are defending the OP and saying I am wrong: that is, they are saying that witnessing and not doing anything DOES make you just as guilty.

Now, I am not even arguing that one isn't guilty of something by witnessing and not acting, only that one cannot be just as guilty as a general rule. There may be some exceptions thereto, but not as a general rule and philosophy.

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u/mh_1039_2 — 10 days ago

cmv: AI will replace most jobs not because it's brilliant, but because the average human is shockingly easy to outperform

I was talking to someone about jobs AI could never do, and I gave a shepherd as an example. But then we stopped and thought: why couldn't you mount a camera and an automatic weapon on a drone? After all, I have cameras in my yard that can recognize animals. The counterargument, however, was: "What happens if it shoots your dog instead of the bear, or worse, a person?"

That really got me thinking. What actually happens? Killing a person is terrible. But then I started analyzing the problem objectively. How many people haven't accidentally killed other people? It happens all the time, out hunting, or at home (you keep a gun in the house, someone is on your property, they are drunk and do not respond, so you fire).

Here is the point: AI does not need to be an absolute genius. It does not need to be AGI capable of doing anything and answering every question. It does not need to perform miracles. It does not need to never make a mistake. On average, it just needs to do these things better than 50% of the population. And to be completely honest with you, doing things better than 50% of the population is extremely easy.

Think about the average person and how much nonsense they do, think, believe, and practice. AI is already better than the bottom 50% of people. It certainly makes mistakes far less often than 50% of people. Just think about the sheer amount of nonsense the average person talks every single hour, and compare that to the nonsense AI spews. It does not even compare! Not even close, a human will talk absolute, outrageous nonsense across every field imaginable. AI has its moments where it derails too, but, and this is a massive but, it is infinitely better than the median person.

We're holding AI to the standard of a flawless god, while the people it's replacing are barely functioning above baseline incompetence. Change my view.

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u/Queasy_Dealer_4498 — 10 days ago

CMV: Lethal injection is more cruel than a firing squad

My prompt is clearly related to the most recent botch but it’s clearly a more systematic issue.

They restrict the chemicals that can be used. It continuously fails causing un due pain to not only the prisoner but to the family of the victims having to watch the failed attempt and then maybe a repeat.

By the alternative a firing squad is 100% effective. No one has survived taking multiple large rounds to the heart. Cost would be around a dollar a round, death via gunshot to the heart is instant, there is no pain, there is no watching someone suffer.

We ended the electric chair due to cruelty, lethal injection seems worse in about every way.

I would also consider CO2 as an alternative that is less messy or violent if that’s an option. Place them in a chamber, they fall asleep and never wake up. You could hook them up to monitors. Doesn’t seem cruel at all.

Just to be blunt I don’t know how anyone could argue for Lethal injection not being a cruel or ineffective method compared to other options.

Edit: specifically for the process I am thinking firing line, 7 people masked, 3 live rounds, 4 blanks, 30-06, all aim at the heart, fire at once. Give the prisoner the option for the head instead.

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u/randompossum — 11 days ago

CMV: If you are a multi-vehicle household at least one of them should be an EV

We live is a suburban area. We recently purchased a Nissan EV. It is fun to drive, very low cost to operate with little maintenance, and 95% of our driving can be covered with the EV. We have a Chargepoint charger in the garage and top it off every couple days. I don't think I have filled up the Subaru with gas more than a couple times since February when we got the EV. Our cabin is 175 miles away and even at that distance the EV covers it just fine as I put a charger up at the cabin as well for the return trip. Before getting the EV, I had anxiety that I would be stranded after running out of battery but it has never been even close to an issue now that we have it.

So I think most multi vehicle households would benefit greatly from having one of them be an EV.

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u/lvwts — 10 days ago

CMV: It is not misogynistic to say that women's football is at a shit level

(Talking about football, not American football).

I don't understand why some people jump out of their sit when this is said because it seems pretty factual. It's pretty well established that men are faster, and stronger physically so I won't insist on that.

In terms of actual skill, watching women football, even at the highest level, I see a lot of gag goals and the general level of play is very low. The goalkeepers in particular are very very bad.

And if you look at the results against not even men team, but even boy teams...

  • Newcastle Jets U15 - Australia (Women) 7:0
  • Teltower FC (7th tier Germany) - Turbine Potsdam (Women, Bundesliga Champion) 10:3
  • VfB Stuttgart U16 - Germany (Women) - 3:0 (45 Minutes match)

And of course let's not forget the time where the world champions USWNT got beaten by a pack of 14 year old boys from Dallas (not even la masia or something).

What could change my view: I think if someone could point to a massive blind spot I have in how I see women football that would change my view.

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u/LFatPoH — 9 days ago

CMV: Giving up on dating will make me happier in the long term

I’ve been wildly unsuccessful in my life in dating. Being someone who’s very short (5’2) and bald, and sadly without a handsome face, it’s very difficult for me to attract women’s attention to a point where they’re interested in me beyond friends.

While I do have a lot of women friends, I’ve never been able to date anyone or even experience basic things like a kiss or anything intimate. I’m 36 years old and still don’t know what these things feel like because I’ve only experienced mockery and rejection my entire life whenever I tried.

I’ve gotten to the point where I’ve become numb to the envy and jealousy of not experiencing these things and always been rejected for another guy. I think long-term I’ll be happier if I accept it won’t happen and just focus on myself and ignore the outside world.

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u/MaldyBaldy2 — 10 days ago

CMV: Dating Apps are in general worse for men than women

To me it just seems like the utility of dating apps for men just seems to be singnificantly lower for men. Let us say the utility of any swipe depends on the value of the match and the probability of actually getting a match plus a cost function. Let us say c(x) denotes the value of any swipe then

c(x) = P(x is match)*v(x) + co(x)

where v(x) is the value function of a given match and co(x) is the cost function. Cost in this model denotes anything that is costly about a match including bad interactions or risks, but also financial costs and other cost.

Now I think it is generally agreed that P(x is match) is generally way lower for men than women.

v(x) as the value of any given match also doesn't seem vastly dissimilar between genders. At least I can't find any good study that would actually back this up. Certainly not to the extent that it would offset P(x) being so much lower.

That leaves only the cost function as a driver for a potential equality and here I would argue that the cost function works very differently for both sexes and both face hardships. It seems hard to argue to me that the cost function alone should ofset the reduced probability of matches. Here you can also model the cost of filtering for women. On the other hand men are expected the cost of repeated rejection, iniative and also the financial cost for dating, even if things like security concerns may not play as big of a role.

Overall this would mean that the utility of any given swipe for men would be lower so the total utility would also be lower. That would be my argument for why it is generally worse for men.

To me this also seems evidenced by women generally churning dating apps more quickly (which may be the result of them finding a desirable match more quickly) and also by men being the main revenue generators for dating apps.

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u/VERTIKAL19 — 11 days ago

CMV: Using 60fps in movies is unfairly dismissed and hated, and filmmakers and audiences should be more open to its use.

I think 60fps, and high frame rates in movies generally, get dismissed far too quickly. I think that film culture is too overly conservative about 60fps. 24fps is treated as sacred, and anything that departs from it gets rejected before it's given a real chance. There's been the same pattern with sound, color, and digital cinematography, where each was met with claims that it looked cheap or ruined the magic, and each was eventually accepted once people got used to it. When the main pushback to a format is "that's not how movies are supposed to look," that's a preference for the familiar, not an argument about quality. Being cautious about change isn't a flaw in itself, but a lot of people seem unwilling to give 60fps a fair shot at all, and I think that holds the medium back.

I'm not saying that 60fps should be the new standard, it should be a creative choice that both audiences and filmmakers should be more open to.

The usual counterexamples are Gemini Man, Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk, The Hobbit, and people treat their failure of their usage of a higher frame rate as proof the format doesn't work. The movies had plenty of other problems, like weak scripts and uneven pacing, and a couple flops are a tiny sample, a movie being bad and also being 60fps doesn't mean it was bad because of 60fps, so correlation, not causation. And we've also seen the Avatar movies use 48fps selectively in action scenes and the usage of that was pretty well received as far as I've seen. The sample size is simply too small and inconsistent to declare the whole format a dead end.

A very common thing I see people say is that 60fps "looks unnatural" or like a soap opera. In my opinion that is a subjective feeling, not a measurable flaw. 24fps became the standard in the earlier eras of film mostly as a cost and technology compromise, not because it was the ideal frame rate for storytelling. We've spent a century associating it with "cinema," so anything else feels off. And I tend to agree, that it does feel "off", mainly due to the fact its so uncommon to see. Not inherently bad though in my opinion. Familiarity isn't the same as being better.

One argument against 60fps that I do understand is that the extra motion clarity can make sets, costumes, lighting, makeup, and CGI look more obviously fake, which can hurt suspension of disbelief. But I don't think that proves 60fps is inherently bad for movies. Filmmaking techniques have been developed around 24fps for decades, so if higher frame rates became more common, production design, VFX, lighting, and cinematography would likely adapt to the extra detail they reveal. We didn't reject 4k after 1080p being the standard for so long, since that also exposed flaws that lower resolutions could hide, but instead filmmakers adapted. I think the same could happen with frame rate.

If an amazing, critically acclaimed blockbuster were released in 60fps, say if The Odyssey or Interstellar hypothetically was also in 60fps, I'm quite confident it wouldn't take anything away from the movie or its success. If anything, it would enhance it. Action scenes, sweeping camera movements, and anything with fast motion would look clearer and more immersive, with less smearing and blur. And if that did happen, it would show other filmmakers the format can work at the highest level, and inspire more people to create in it instead of defaulting to 24fps.

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u/bowl-filled-with-air — 10 days ago

CMV: In the future, there will be a market for a service where you can sit in a room and type, and the service will certify that your writing was not A.I.-generated. Because this will be the only way to *prove* you didn't use A.I.

Eventually A.I. will get close enough to human writing to fool the A.I.-detectors and most humans. At that point, the only way to prove that you wrote something without using A.I., will be to sit in a room in front of a computer, with a camera trained on you, as you write it yourself.

So, assume there will continue to be people who hate the idea of consuming A.I.-generated or even A.I.-assisted writing. Even if they like some posts by a writer or social media creator, they still can't be sure that the writing isn't A.I.-generated, and they loathe the idea of getting emotionally invested in someone's writing that could be fake. So they will only consume writing if it is "certified not A.I.". And then anyone who wants to publish writing in order that demand, can use this service to certify that their writing is real when they publish it.

Now, a lot of people who just post casually on X or Substack might think, fuck that, I'm not driving to some room with a camera pointed at me just to prove I'm not A.I. And that's fine. But as long as there is an audience for certified-non-A.I. content, then the fewer people sign up to create certified-non-A.I. content, the more attention (and possibly more money) people can gain by being one of the creators. So some creators will be willing to do it, and they'll keep joining the system until an equilibrium is reached.

(Ironically, the camera monitoring system itself, which just watches you to make sure you are typing your own words, could be powered by A.I. That's a simple task that will probably be trivial to automate in the future.)

Now some people's reaction to this will be "Ugh, just log off and go talk to people." For one-on-one and small group chats, this makes sense. But when it comes to writing and thinking, there really are some people who are a lot better at it than others, and in an efficient, merit-based marketplace, those people's writing should be going out to more than just the small number of people they could reach by talking in a group. There should still be a way for some humans to write for a mass audience. But we should also have a way for consumers of writing to be 100% sure they're not reading something A.I.-generated.

(I suppose a person with a photographic memory but poor writing skills could still use A.I. to write something, memorize it, then show up at the writing center and type it out. That might just be a loophole we have to live with.)

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u/bennetthaselton — 9 days ago

CMV: Taylor Swift and her music sucks (not a revolutionary opinion but a polarising one indeed)

I see so many women just adore her, I don't get it. I would like to know what's about her music that garners so much adoration. I've tried getting into it so many times, but to me her lyrics/vocals/tunes just sound terrible.

Maybe there are examples of actual good writing and strong vocals that I haven't come across. Generally whatever evidence of good writing has come up just sounds like overly worded mumbo jumbo.

I also don't like her activism, looks very self serving. Her inviting/allowing an invite to a person who's made a business out of an ICE deportation centre rubbed me the wrong way really. The fact that she never spoke about Palestine also doesn't help my image of her.

I couldn't care less who she dated, how many she dated or who she married, which I know have been points of immense scrutiny over the course of her career.

I have no problem with others like her music. Tastes are subjective, but Taylor Swift fans at times are a little...too much? I think that's one of the reasons why I haven't been able to find a reason to like her, her fans make it a little too difficult.

Change my view?

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u/Able-Vermicelli5760 — 9 days ago

CMV: Women who claim to be lonely are lonely by choice

I feel like as a woman there is always a man out there who would be happy to be with you. I’ve heard women say things like “yeah but you have to sort through the assholes” or “most only want sex” or whatever.

Ok? I’d rather have the issue of sorting through good and bad women or have a woman use me for sex than have nothing at all.

I feel like women have options, not all men do.

Call me an incel or a misogynist I don’t care.

If you think I hate women you don’t know me.

I’m just tired of hearing women complain about being alone when I feel like they could change that if they wanted to.

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u/SedRitz — 10 days ago

cmv: Gambling should be entirely illegal in the US, except for on Indian reservations*

Here’s my thought process, anything I’m wrong on here?

  1. Gambling can be extremely addictive and destructive, it is the throwing away of money in exchange for an adrenaline high, it is inherently degenerate
  2. Degenerate desires are not going anywhere, and will always be sated by legal or illegal means
  3. It is better to legalize degenerate behavior so as not to create a criminal revenue stream, but to create a legal “friction” for degenerate activities, to dissuade the activity, and the most effective friction (aside from potential danger) is geographic restriction
  4. Casinos and the associated services are incredibly lucrative and (aside from one extremely notable exception) are basically impossible run into the ground
  5. A near guaranteed cash flow from outside communities, on a basis that creates jobs and entrepreneurship, aided by a government monopoly, is the most realistic form of reparations our current society could actually achieve for American Indians

* The casinos should be owned by, and its profits distributed to, the recognized tribal governments rather individuals or private groups. There is still the risk of avarice and corruption, but it is more likely that the funds will actually go towards developing the community rather than benefitting a few well connected members and diluted by outside investors, banks, etc.

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u/AdInfamous6290 — 10 days ago

CMV: The main Israeli criticism of the NAZA documentary is hollow distraction

CMV: The main Israeli criticism of NAZA seems pretty hollow

For anyone who hasn't seen it: NAZA is an Israeli documentary based on testimony about IDF targeting in Gaza, including AI generated targets and how many civilian deaths could be accepted for individual targets.

The movie has 24 anonymous IDF/intelligence sources on screen, but the investigation apparently involved more than 100 sources, including senior officers and people involved at different stages of targeting/approval.

The Guardian reports that claims were cross-checked against other sources, specific strikes and classified material.

And the overall picture isn't exactly coming out of nowhere. UN investigations, Amnesty and other organisations have separately documented huge civilian harm, destruction of civilian infrastructure and extremely permissive Israeli conduct in Gaza.

Yet I keep seeing basically the same arguments against the movie:

"The witnesses are anonymous."

Anonymous to us.

The journalists know who they are and checked their stories against other sources/evidence.

Do people seriously expect serving IDF personnel accusing their own military of war crimes to appear with name, rank and address?

"They are just junior soldiers who don't understand the targeting process."

Except the investigation included more than the 24 people shown and reportedly included senior officers and people directly involved in targeting and authorization.

So this seems to be arguing against something the movie isn't actually claiming.

"There is no evidence. Just testimony."

Again, no.

The investigation reportedly used 100+ sources, classified documents and checked specific attacks.

You can argue that they should release more of the underlying evidence. That is reasonable.

But that isn't the same as saying it doesn't exist.

"No Israeli strike killed 500 civilians, therefore the claim that 500 civilians could be accepted is false."

This one makes no sense to me.

The allegation is about the estimated civilian deaths BEFORE the strike.

If you authorize a strike expected to potentially kill 500 civilians and it ends up killing 80, that doesn't magically mean the original authorization didn't happen.

"Those numbers weren't allowed civilian deaths. They were authorization thresholds."

Ok... but what happens when it reaches the person with authority to approve it? That is the relevant question.

If 20 deaths needs approval from person A and 100 from person B, saying "100 wasn't automatically allowed" doesn't answer whether person B then approved it. Nor does it provide statistics on how many times humans approved or disapproved the targets or what the process was.

It does not help when sources claim:

>B. said that the reason for this automation was a constant push to generate more targets for assassination. “In a day without targets [whose feature rating was sufficient to authorize a strike], we attacked at a lower threshold. We were constantly being pressured: ‘Bring us more targets.’ They really shouted at us. We finished [killing] our targets very quickly.”

"Lavender isn't an AI kill list because a human approves the target."

Again this seems mostly semantic. The allegation is that algorithms generated enormous numbers of targets and human review became extremely limited.

If a person looks at an AI generated target for 20 seconds and clicks approve, technically a human made the decision.

That doesn't answer the criticism. Especially not when it is a heuristics where the score needed to be deemed "likely hamas operative" can be changed if they do not get enough targets.

"Israel calculated civilian casualties, therefore they were trying to protect civilians."

Calculating civilian casualties obviously can be part of protecting civilians.

But surely the interesting part is what number you then ACCEPT?

A system saying "this strike will probably kill 80 civilians" doesn't become humanitarian because someone calculated the 80 first.

"Hamas operates among civilians."

Yes. That makes targeting harder.

How does it answer whether Israel massively loosened its acceptable civilian casualty limits or whether targets received meaningful review?

Additionally the claim is that the identification of "hamas"-people is 85% precise, though that number is a claim, not a fact. But 15 innocents + families out of a 100 targets is very "non-precise targeting" for precise strikes.

The logic seems to be that all people targeted are Hamas despite of this.

"They ignore October 7."

October 7 explains why Israel went to war. It doesn't give Israel unlimited freedom in how it conducts that war. (and time did not start on October 7)

"The filmmakers are anti-Israel."

Maybe. Who cares? Are they Anti-"the right wing government" (= 75% of elected)

Show that their evidence is wrong.
The thing I find interesting is that most of these arguments don't really address the central claims.

The relevant questions are:

  1. Did Israel substantially increase how many civilian deaths it would accept for targets?
  2. Were huge numbers of targets generated algorithmically?
  3. Did those targets get meaningful human review?
  4. Were strikes approved while knowing large numbers of civilians would probably die?

If NAZA is wrong, those are the claims I would expect the rebuttal to disprove.

Instead most of what I see is "anonymous sources", arguments about terminology, attacks on the filmmakers and distinctions that don't actually contradict what is being alleged.

CMV: What is the strongest actual evidence that the central claims in NAZA are false?

u/martindukz — 10 days ago

CMV: Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest player in basketball history

An avid basketball fan, I spent years swearing MJ was the goat. I've considered LeBron heavily, and I've considered Kareem.

But I find myself now believing Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest ever. If he were born in 1990, he would probably be the unanimous GOAT.

Let me walk you through my POV:

The Timeline

In high school, he was already an incredible T&F athlete and among the best basketball players on earth. Before he even touched a college court, an article was published entitled, 'Can basketball survive Chamberlain?'

In 1960, rookie Wilt Chamberlain won MVP. He's the first of two players to ever do so.

In 1962, Wilt Chamberlain had possibly the best season in history. He averaged 50 points, 26 rebounds, 2 assists shooting 51 percent from the field and scoring 100 points in a game.

In 1967, Wilt Chamberlain had possibly the best season in history. He averaged a near triple double: 24/24/8. He shot 68% from the field and won his second of 3 straight MVPs.

What the stats don't show us

Wilt Chamberlain played before the NBA recorded blocks.

His final 1973 season, after analysts went back and documented all of his film, saw him blocking an insane 5.4 blocks per game - Only Mark Eaton in 1985 had a higher confirmed single-season average. It's estimated he averaged up to 9 blocks per game in his prime.

Wilt Chamberlain was also an incredible rim deterrent - the same things said about Gobert and Wemby today? Also true for Chamberlain - players wanted nothing to do with him at the rim.

Physically, Wilt Chamberlain was a specimen. Possibly the most athletic person ever, period. At 7'1", playing at 300 pounds, he had enormous hands, a 7'7" wingspan, could run a 4.6 40, jump 48 inches, bench 500 pounds with a 50 foot triple jump. His blend of speed, strength, and size are unheard of. He tore his patellar tendon in 1969, a usually career-ending injury, and recovered in mere months.

Wilt Chamberlain was skilled. Watch the game tape. A physically dominant player like Shaq simply backs into people to move them.

Wilt Chamberlain used drop steps, hook shots, floaters, finger rolls, and a mid-range fadeaway, A shot that wouldn't be mainstream until the 80s, and still managed to shoot 66-68% across several seasons. Shaquille O'Neal played with his back to the basket. In the 1960s, backing down, a defender in the post would be called an offensive foul immediately. Post scoring was extremely skill-based.

What the stats do show us

Wilt Chamberlain was really good. He holds the record for points, rebounds, and blocks in a game. He has 100+ triple doubles and that's only those that are documented, he likely has hundreds with his block numbers, and several quadruple doubles, which only three players have ever done. He recorded the NBA's first, last, and only quintuple double - 53/32/14/24/11, documented by Harvey Pollack.

Wilt Chamberlain is the all-time leader in minutes per game, and averaged 48.5 out of 48 minutes in his prime.

Wilt Chamberlain has the most rebounds ever, he has 1.5% of every rebound in NBA history.

My conclusion

There is no other player who can do what Wilt can do. He has a case for the best scorer ever, best rebounder ever, best defender ever, second-best passing center ever, most athletic player ever, most dominant player ever, and definitely for the best player of all time.

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u/ALesserKnownEvil — 11 days ago

CMV: Drake is overhyped

Hi, I’m guessing this could be a hot take based on his popularity, but I’ve recently started trying to get into rap, looking at a variety of artists and styles, however everytime I’ve listened to drakes stuff he is coming across as a generic artists with samey beats and way too much autotune.

Again I am just starting my rap journey so perhaps I’m not aware of his style, impact etc, however to me he seems bland with the same beats I’ve heard many a time.

Bare in my mind I do think he’s a good rapper who can flow well but apart form that the other aspects of his music have failed to impress so far.

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u/Helpful_Elderberry_4 — 10 days ago

CMV: Except for special or temporary circumstances, you shouldn't have to compromise THAT much in a relationship, and relationships shouldn't be all that difficult to maintain

Maybe I've just been watching too much Love Is Blind, but it drives me crazy how often people — especially older couples who've been together for a while — insist that relationships are this constant battle that require incredible compromise on both folks' parts.

I get it to a degree. There's no such thing as the perfect partner, and some amount of compromise is almost always going to be necessary in even the best relationship. My wife and I have both had to compromise certain things in order to maintain our marriage. And I definitely understand why special circumstances — sudden illness, death of a loved one, having to move across the country to care for a family member etc — can force someone to compromise.

But if one or both of you are having to constantly make big compromises for each other, that tells me that you're not all that compatible in the first place. If it's making sure you can cohabitate and sustain a healthy relationship is this grueling daily battle, why are you with this person? I get that relationships require work, but they shouldn't require constant, difficult work. There are plenty of potential partners out there who you naturally get along well with, and don't have to make constant compromises to please.

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u/CoffeeCat37 — 10 days ago

CMV: A finite life does not inherently have more meaning than an infinite one.

Clarification

I always hear people claim that making people immortal would make life meaningless. I genuinely think this is a ridiculous viewpoint.

This post is long, and I've tried to format it to be as digestible as possible, as I feel it's all important to my viewpoint. Feel free to skim, or skip sections I use for comparison if it's too long for you, or you get my point already.


 

Let me clarify that I do not want to touch True Immortality (As in, you cannot die, and do not age) with a ten-foot pole. That is it's own special brand of Hell to me that would only be bearable under unique circumstances, and most, including myself, would not be able to bear it.

 

I am talking only about Biological Immortality, you do not age and COULD live forever, until you are killed, or even just until you choose to press the 'die' button. There needs to still be an option for an end, but it is not in order to grant meaning. It's only to give a way to end suffering if you want to cease, or a peaceful route to nonexistence if you're completely satisfied.

 

Because this is more of a philosophical view about the value in an endless life, I'm structuring it as an ideal scenario where people can just live until they choose to die. I'm still keeping the title as 'infinite' because some people could just choose to never die.


 

Useful Comparisons

I think the best description of my ideal world would be (Spoilers for the Good Place) >!Exactly how the Good Place ends. You could potentially live forever and do anything you could ever want, but eventually most people will be satisfied, so an option for nonexistence is a good thing. Yet others might find meaning in taking on an endless task, like Tahani seeking to master every skill and eventually becoming a Bad Place Architect, if memory serves.!< Obviously, this is an Afterlife scenario. But I see no theoretical reason an ideal futuristic world couldn't end up in a similar state, perhaps on a digital substrate if we crack true mind uploading without having any more doubt about the issues involved.

This is a more philosophical discussion than a practical one, anyway.

&nbsp;

Sort of spoilers for Dark Souls, but it's nothing that's a 'reveal' or anything, they just kind of show up. >!This is pretty similar in my mind to how to avoid going Hollow in Dark Souls. DS3 has Undead like Andre and Patches who've stubbornly persisted since the beginning of the Undead Curse, because they never lose sight of the meaning in what they do and who they are (obviously being a blacksmith is a lot more productive and helpful than a backstabbing thief, but I digress.)!< Obviously, this world is far from ideal, and it's showing the strongest wills to persist through eons of suffering. But I still find it relevant.

I don't see why this wouldn't apply to real people, but I'm open to changing my mind, hence posting here.


&nbsp;

Some Real World Context for Myself

I personally am someone who feels they wasted much of the start of their life scraping my way through school, and rotting away in the back room of my uncle's home for the entire 2010's, and that infuriates me. It doesn't add meaning to the remaining 40-80 years of my life. It only depresses me more and makes me feel like I'm more likely to waste more of it, losing even more time if I don't take care of myself properly.

&nbsp;

I'm still in my first relationship, and I have been for nearly five years now, despite it being long distance and us only meeting up for the first time a few months ago. I'll finally be moving to her town in a year or so.

&nbsp;

She has Multiple Sclerosis, and while it's something that is driving me to pursue my pre-existing interest in Regenerative Medicine, that does not make up for the sadness it causes me. Sadness that my time with her might be even more limited than it would be if we were both in perfect health.

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It does not make that time with her mean more, the meaning is already there in every moment I spend with her, it was there in every moment before I learned of her diagnosis. It only tinges it with an extra looming dread that it's going to end, and if she lives a full and happy life typical of a healthy person, it only means that additional dread itself was a dampener on our happiness.

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If I knew that my time with her would never end, that wouldn't cause me to squander it. The thought that I would just say 'Oh I can just talk to her next week, eh.' is utterly ridiculous. Every moment we spend together could be in complete relief that things are okay, that any small issues that come up are totally temporary. That there's no risk of anything important ever going unsaid, any meaningful discussions left unshared, even if it's temporarily put off.

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If I was able to spend forever just developing the skills I want, just for the sake of doing it and for the sake of aiding others, then still having as much time as we want for our relationship; When both of us have explored everything that interests us, done everything that we want to contribute to the world, then finally, peacefully, choosing to die and see if anything comes next, I can't imagine any downsides to that.

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Would some people waste their time if it was unlimited?

Yeah. Some people would, maybe a lot of people would, by my standards. But it's their right to find meaning wherever they find it. In this world where people have all the time they want, likely without a need to consume resources to have it, I see no reason they couldn't find real value in simple hedonism.

If they aren't hurting other people, does it matter? Who am I to judge them? Who am I to say that the value they find is false?

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I'm a positive Nihilist, or an Absurdist, if that fits better. Life doesn't have any meaning to find, nothing is granted to us. We make it, and I don't believe there's any less meaning to make even if Life doesn't end. Allowing even those with an iron will who wish to persist endlessly and never stop contributing to find true meaning in that task.

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Maybe someone just wants to be there to see the Universe experience Heat Death.

I don't get it, but they do.

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Quantity has no baring on Quality, not on this, not in my mind.


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Final Note

I've had people question my willingness to actually change my beliefs on my occasional posts to this subreddit before, because I go out of my way to provide a strong argument for my view.

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I wouldn't be here if I didn't hold this view strongly. I do, but I recognize that there may be points where it fails. I do want to be right. But I love being proven wrong, having my views changed, because that then means I'm more right than I was before.

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I hope the context in the previous section shows that my mindset towards life would only improve if my view was changed, that I could then cherish the limited time I have even more in face of the dread, so please do change it.


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I'd also like to clearly state that AI was not used for any part of this post, every word and piece of formatting was typed by my hand, on the fly, in the past few hours.

I don't want those accusations poisoning discussion even if someone spots some random small similarity, and I know it's against the rules to make those accusations, but it still happens.

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u/Sivanot — 9 days ago

CMV: Advice like “the internet is not real life” and sayings similar to it are increasingly becoming outdated if not already are.

Obviously it was true in the past, and people should spend manage their time online, but with how interconnected everyone has been with mobile devices, and the streamlining and centralization of the modern internet due to social media, it’s not as effective to say things like that anymore to try and comfort or help others.

Look at how terms like “chud” and “-maxxing” suffixes are used everywhere online now by people who dont even know where said words came from.

Im in college and I’ve straight up heard people in my life, strangers and friends use this type of terminology casually, and these arent shut-ins, theyre regular people who have social lives.

This isn’t the 2000s anymore where the internet was left in the computer lab or home office. We have a computer in our pocket that we interact with daily, and you’re telling me that it doesn’t impact the outside world and how people act in it now? Especially after the pandemic?

Saying this advice is not helpful, it’s an empty platitude that’s boils down to “go away, i dont care about your argument or worries.” We need to accept that people are massively online now and that bleeds heavily into the real world, and work from there instead of denying it.

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u/DeerAccomplished5114 — 11 days ago

CMV: Serena Williams is not the GOAT of tennis, she the GOAT of Woman Players but it's not correct to put her above the likes of Novak, Rafa or Roger

Serena Won 23 Grand Slams which he did playing against the likes of Henin, Venus, Sharapova or Azarenka. And these players while good aren't anywhere near the level of Serena, basically she never truly had someone on her level that could take slams away from her which to me affects how I see her slam tally compared to the likes of Novak, Roger or Rafa

Roger, Rafa and Novak won 20/22/24 Slams despite competing with each other which means that without themselves they would've won way more than they did very likely win 25 to 35 Grand Slams

Just to put you an example of how much much the big 3 stopped each other

-Nadal stopped Federer from Winning Roland Garros 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2011, Wimbledon 2008 and Australian Open 2009/2014. He also stopped Djokovic in Roland Garros 2012, 2013,2014, 2020, 2022 and US Open 2010/2011

-Djokovic stopped Federer from winning Australian Open 2008, 2011, Wimbledon 2014, 2015, 2019 and US Open 2015. And he stopped Nadal from winning Roland Garros 2021, Wimbledon 2011/2018 and Us Open 2011

-Federer stopped Nadal from winning Wimbledon 2006, 2007 and Australian Open 2017. And he stopped Djokovic from winning US Open 2007, US Open 2008, Wimbledon 2012 and Roland Garros 2011.

Take 2 of the Big 3 members from Tennis and the likes of Nadal/Djokovic/Federer would have won 28/35 Slams while Serena finished with 23 while playing against the likes of Henin, Venus or Sharapova

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u/Comprehensive_Cup497 — 10 days ago