u/littlelolitalola

First and foremost, this isn’t meant to be a hate post. TUIDE have already gotten more than enough hate just for trying to pursue their dreams.

I know a lot of people feel they weren’t ready to debut, but I also wonder if part of the problem was simply choosing the wrong debut song and choreography for where they are skill-wise right now.

“Sun Kiss” is a good song, but the performance requires a lot of natural groove and looseness. Watching the choreography, some of the members can look a little stiff or wooden at times, which makes the performance feel more awkward than it probably would with choreography that played more to their strengths. I saw someone else point this out and I think there’s something to it.

Personally, I think they look more comfortable performing “Grls". “Sun Kiss” almost puts a spotlight on the areas where they’re still developing.

That doesn’t justify the amount of hate they’ve received at all, but do you think a different debut song or performance style could have changed the way people initially perceived them?

Obviously, the category isn’t limited to K-pop and artists from J-pop, C-pop and other Asian pop scenes can submit too. But since this is a K-pop space, who do you actually expect to go for it?

Stray Kids seem like an obvious possibility. Blackpink could potentially submit depending on what they release, and I’m also curious about soloists like Jennie, Lisa, Rosé, Jisoo, Jungkook, etc. There are also groups like aespa, Le Sserafim, and others whose labels might see a new Grammy category as worth pursuing.

Who do you think will actively submit?

I saw someone say that K-pop probably would’ve reached the same level of global popularity it has now regardless of BTS or Blackpink, and I’m not really sure I agree.

Obviously K-pop had global fans before them, (Hallyu pioneers such as SNSD & 2NE1) but come on. Gangnam Style was INESCAPABLE. Your parents knew it. Your teachers knew it. People who had never listened to a K-pop song in their lives knew Psy. I really think that was the moment the global mainstream started seriously looking at Korea.

But Psy could’ve easily just remained this massive one-off phenomenon. I think BTS is what really kept the door open. And I do think the timing helped. One Direction broke up, the world suddenly didn’t have an obvious “biggest boy band,” and BTS was perfectly primed to fill that space. And I’m not saying that they were a replacement for 1D because that would be unfair to BTS, but there was clearly still a huge appetite for a boy group people could become obsessed with.

Then Blackpink came along and basically did the same thing on the girl group side. Again, I’m not saying people literally went “we need a female BTS,” but there was room for a massive global girl group and Blackpink had the image, music, members, and marketing to take that spot.

So I’ve always looked at it like Psy broke the door wide open, but BTS and Blackpink kept it open. Maybe K-pop would’ve eventually gotten this big anyway because of YouTube, streaming, social media, and whatnot. But I don’t think its current level of global dominance was inevitable. There’s too much of a clear progression there for me to think those three acts didn’t massively accelerate it.

I recently saw someone on Twitter rank the biggest Disney Channel music stars of that era and put the Jonas Brothers noticeably below Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, and Demi Lovato, and my immediate reaction was basically Whaaaa?

Because the Jonas Brothers were no joke at their peak.

I think part of their importance is that they filled a lane Disney really needed at the time. So many of Disney Channel’s biggest music acts were girls or female-led: Miley/Hannah Montana, Selena Gomez, Demi Lovato, The Cheetah Girls, etc. The Jonas Brothers in comparison were this extremely marketable male pop-rock band right when Disney’s music machine was firing on all cylinders.

And we all know how crazy/devoted a young female fanbase can get over male idols. (One Direction, BTS)

The Jonas Brothers had that kind of fandom. Girls were OBSESSED with them. They weren’t just “those guys from Camp Rock.” They had hit albums, huge tours, merchandise everywhere, Disney Channel constantly playing their videos, appearances across the network, Camp Rock, and eventually their own show. Disney incorporated them into basically every part of the machine.

I also think people forget just how quickly they blew up. They went from being a relatively unknown band to being one of the biggest teen acts in America.

Obviously Miley became the biggest phenomenon within Disney Channel with Hannah Montana, and all four acts had very different careers afterward. But if we’re specifically talking about their importance to Disney Channel during that late-2000s golden era, I really don’t see the Jonas Brothers as a tier below Miley/Selena/Demi.

To me, Miley, the Jonas Brothers, Selena, and Demi are basically the Mount Rushmore of Disney Channel’s music machine from that generation.

Am I overestimating how huge the Jonas Brothers were at their peak, or do other people remember it this way too?

Recently I've been thinking a lot about the new Best Asian Pop Music Performance category.

I understand why so many people had a negative reaction. "Best Asian Pop" is a very broad title, and I can see why some people feel like it comes across as separating Asian artists rather than recognizing a specific genre.

At the same time, I wonder if the Recording Academy's idea wasn't necessarily bad, but the execution was.

Asian pop has become much more visible globally, but in the U.S. it still doesn't seem to have the same level of mainstream penetration as American pop. At least in my experience, I rarely hear K-pop in stores or restaurants outside of the big hitters like BTS, Blackpink, Twice, or kpop adjacent acts like Katseye. That doesn't mean it isn't successful, but it occupies a different space in the U.S. market.

So I'm curious. Do you think the problem was the category itself, or just the name?

Would something like "Best International Pop Performance" or another title have been received better?

Or do you think there shouldn't be a separate category at all, and Asian artists should continue competing only in the existing pop categories?

I'm genuinely interested in hearing different perspectives because I can understand arguments on both sides.

I respect BTS if this is the statement they want to make. They’re doing what they feel is right for them, and after years of trying to compete in the main categories, I understand why.

That said, I think some fans are taking it too far by calling any artist who submits spineless, weak, or saying the winner will have an asterisk.
Criticize the game, not the players.

The artist who wins didn’t create the category and they didn’t make BTS choose not to submit. Not every artist is in BTS’ position either. For some, this could be their only realistic shot at a Grammy.

And honestly, saying any Asian artist who submits is accepting a lesser award might end up hurting the Asian Pop category itself. If we want Asian artists to be respected, we probably shouldn’t be the first ones telling them their Grammy doesn’t count.

You can respect BTS’ decision without putting down every other Asian artist who decides to compete.

Whenever people call out racism or cultural appropriation in K-pop, there’s almost always someone who dismisses the conversation by accusing them of “playing the victim card.” I think that’s an incredibly harmful and insensitive response. Calling out problematic behavior isn’t playing the victim. No one is saying every controversy is racism or that every idol has malicious intent. But intent doesn’t erase impact.

K-pop groups and companies are not above criticism. Sometimes they do ignorant things. Sometimes they appropriate Black culture. Sometimes they disrespect South Asian, Hispanic/Latino, Indigenous, or other cultures. And when that happens, they deserve to be called out.

I’ve also noticed that Black fans seem to receive the brunt of this dismissiveness when they bring up racism or cultural appropriation. Whether people realize it or not, that makes it much harder to have these conversations in good faith.

And I could not care less if some people are tired of hearing about these conversations or tired of their favorite idols being criticized. They will never be more tired than the people who actually have to live with racism, cultural appropriation, and the stereotypes that come with them.

Black people are tired of seeing their culture treated like a costume. South Asians are tired of their culture being reduced to an aesthetic. Hispanic and Latino communities are tired of stereotypes and disrespect. Plenty of other marginalized communities feel the same way. If conversations about these issues make you uncomfortable, imagine how exhausting it is for the people who actually experience them.

You don’t have to agree with every criticism. You don’t have to think every incident is malicious. But dismissing people with “you’re playing the victim card” or telling them to “get over it” doesn’t make the problem disappear. It just tells marginalized fans that their experiences matter less than protecting an idol’s image.

An $87 million second weekend?! Already over $600 million worldwide?!

Culture-war discourse aside, I’m genuinely thrilled to see this movie doing so well. At this point, $1 billion feels pretty much guaranteed. Honestly, even a $1.1 to $1.2 billion finish is starting to look conservative.

Only time will tell and I could be wrong but just with how much it's making already, I'm optimistic!

The momentum is ridiculous. How high do you think this thing can go?

If this series was supposed to become one of Disney+'s flagship shows alongside The Mandalorian or Loki, then Disney has done a pitiful job treating it like one.

For a show that reportedly costs around $100 million a season to make, it often feels like it disappears for months at a time. There are occasional trailers and interviews, but nowhere near the sustained marketing push I'd expect for a franchise Disney clearly invested heavily in.

The show has its flaws, and people can debate the writing all day long. But I also think Disney deserves a lot more criticism for not putting the series in the best position to succeed.

Maybe Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey will get more people interested in Greek mythology by the time Season 3 arrives. Maybe that helps. But Disney shouldn't be relying on another studio's movie to generate excitement for one of its biggest fantasy series.

This isn’t about comparing Sakura and Yoonchae as performers. I’m wondering more about HxG’s strategy.

KATSEYE has Yoonchae as the youngest member, and she’s become an important part of the group’s identity. With SAINT SATINE, HxG specifically recruited Sakura from Japan, making her both the youngest member and the group’s only Asian member.

Do you think HxG intentionally wanted another younger member they could develop over the years, or do you think Sakura was simply the trainee they believed was the best fit regardless of age?

And if adding a younger member did change the group’s direction, do you think that could have influenced the group’s identity in ways they weren’t originally planning? And maybe one reason Lexie decided it was best to leave before debut?

I’m genuinely curious to hear different perspectives. If you think I’m overthinking this, tell me. If you think there’s something to it, tell me that too.

Do you guys think it’s too soon for KATSEYE to have a movie?

On one hand, KATSEYE has had an incredibly fast rise and has become something of a cultural phenomenon. On the other hand, part of me wonders if it would’ve been better to release a movie after a full album or another year or two.

Do you think it’s never too soon if the story is interesting, or would you have preferred they waited a little longer?

Out of the Big Three, which would you rather be a child of: Zeus, Poseidon, or Hades?

Considering everything like powers, your parent, and the baggage that comes with each.

Personally, sign me up for Poseidon. He seems like the least unhinged of the three. Zeus is…well, Zeus, and Hades has his own issues, even if he’s probably more reasonable than he’s given credit for.

Who are you choosing, and why?

One thing Dream Academy really made me realize is that sometimes hard work isn’t the end all be all.

Every member of KATSEYE earned their place. I don’t think anyone in the final lineup is untalented or undeserving.

At the same time, I do think some contestants had advantages that others didn’t. That’s not unique to Dream Academy. That’s just entertainment.

Take Manon. Do I think HYBE was willing to be more patient with her than they may have been with some other trainees? Yeah, probably. But she also had to prove she could catch up, and by the end of Dream Academy I think she did. She wouldn’t have survived in KATSEYE if she hadn’t. (None of this means I don’t think Manon could have experienced mistreatment or unfair treatment later on. Those are separate discussions.)

I think Lara is another example. She was brought in a bit late but she had such an incredible voice and presence.

I think Dream Academy was a rude awakening for some contestants, and honestly for viewers too, that entertainment isn’t just about who works the hardest. Companies are looking at charisma, chemistry, marketability, image, growth potential, and whether someone fits the group they’re trying to build.

That doesn’t mean hard work doesn’t matter. It absolutely does. But hard work alone has never guaranteed success in this industry.

Honestly, I think one of the biggest issues was that the trainees weren’t initially told they were essentially competing in a survival show. That probably made the whole experience much more painful.

At the end of the day, I thought every contestant was extremely talented. Dream Academy just reminded me that entertainment has never been a pure meritocracy.

Over the past couple of weeks, discussion surrounding Manon’s hiatus has increased significantly. We understand that many users have strong opinions and emotions about the situation, and we want this subreddit to remain a place where people can discuss those topics respectfully.

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