u/lucasawilliams

To correct myself, I don't think the water symbol between the Pisces fish is Aquarius anymore as the sign differs too much from the Babylonian symbol and the conventional reading of it representing a field does tie in with Iberia being the place of the Elysium Fields.

So far we've looked at the 12 signs and the 36 decans but there are also an additional 20 signs in the middle and 5 planets, whose positions near signs might also be significant. Certainly nothing was accidental or merely 'religious symbolism'.

Below is a useful diagram from the article "La date de conception du zodiaque du temple d’Hathor à Dendera" by Éric Aubourg, 1995.

Looking at Pisces, there are two nearby signs in circles, a figure holding the tail of a pig and also the right eye (the eye of Ra) also called the Utchat or Wadjet (same name as the cobra/dragon deity) and a representation of Venus as the figure with two heads.

Planets are in blue and the 12 Zodiac signs are in green

Fortunately, there are additional representations of these symbols in greater detail in a linear Zodiac on the Dendera Temple's ceiling, someone made a really informative post on this here https://www.reddit.com/r/OutoftheTombs/s/3zgtJL3W7g the text coming from a Paul Smit.

Zodiac on the Dendera ceiling

Symbols around Pisces on the Dendera ceiling

The figure holding the leg of the pig is more clearly show here. The god is green and blue. I wonder whether this is a representation of the migration of people from Atlantis to Iberia, Sekhmet was shown as a green figure. Perhaps after Africa started to become desolate in 6200 BC people followed animals like pigs north to Iberia? I don't know, this isn't clear.

https://preview.redd.it/2neip70gk8th1.jpg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f4f18fa0e5e7b140a6173681f3d41da83883ba5

The Utchat, Eye of Ra, association to Pisces is also significant. We already know that Sekhmet, and corresponding westerly gods, are identified with the Eye of Ra. Iberia is in a similar westerly region and appears to have later had population crossover from Atlantis and even uses the same African Amazigh symbol, this might validate it's shared identity with the Eye of Ra.

Utchat, Eye of Ra, top left by Pisces

Venus placed between Pisces and Aquarius is interesting. The Dagon tribe of West Africa report the Nommo as being associated with the planet Venus.

On the origin of the Pisces symbol again, one of the Amazigh flags has an extra line, likely linking the symbol to the 'squatter-man' symbol which shows up around the world from about 7000 BC. Either, it has been distributed around the world or there was an event visible gloablly and Perratt has famously made the claim that this may have emerged from a plasma discharge effect in the atmosphere caused by an especially large solar flare hitting earth.

Whether the symbol was distributed or emerged from this effect or is just a coincidence I don't know. It's an interesting question but also isn't that necessity for events in Europe.

Top left red flag has extra line in symbol

This linear Zodiac is also additionally useful because it also includes the twelve goddesses of the Amduat, one for each hour, between Zodiac signs. I didn't know where were twelve goddesses of the Amduat and I don't know where they're shown but according to pages 173-174 of this article they're there. https://doczz.net/doc/561844/the-dendera-zodiacs-as-narratives-of-the-myth-of-osiris--...

This is a table of each goddess' name and their corresponding Amduat hour.

Amduat hour (and period)	Name of the region	Name of the hour goddess
1 10,400 BC - 9,680 BC	Great City / Waters of Ra	Splitter of Heads of Re’s Enemies
2 9,680 BC - 8,960 BC	Field of Wernes (Uranus)	The Wise, Guardian of Her Lord
3 8,960 BC - 8,240 BC	Water of the Sole Lord, which produces offerings / Field of the Grain Gods & Water of Osiris	Slicer of Souls
4 8,240 BC - 7,520 BC	Cavern of the Life of Forms	Great of Power
5 7,520 BC - 6,800 BC	Cavern of Sokar / The West	She on Her Boat
6 6,800 BC - 6,080 BC	Deep Water of those of the Duat	Proficient Leader
7 6,080 BC - 5,360 BC	Cavern of Osiris / City of the Mysterious Cave	Repeller of the Snake
8 5,360 BC - 4,640 BC	City of God’s Sarcophagi	Mistress of the Night
9 4,640 BC - 3,920 BC	City of Living Manifestations / Flowing with forms	Adorer
10 3,920 BC - 3,200 BC	City of Deep Water and Steep Banks	Beheader of Rebels
11 3,200 BC - 2,480 BC	City of Corpse-Counting / Mouth of the cavern that examines corpses	The Star, Repulser of Rebels
12 2,480 BC - 1,760 BC	Cavern at the End of Darkness / City of the Appearance of Birth	Beholder of the Beauty of Re

Apparently the exact positions of these goddesses between the Zodiac signs aren't available online so I asked ChatGPT to translate the hieroglyphs of the twelve goddesses of the Amduat and note their placements between signs, I've then added the year of the sign that would correspond to these goddess placements.

Zodiac sign	Position relative to the Amaduat goddesses	Approximate corresponding period of the Amduat
Capricorn	Between 1 and 2	9,680 BC
Pabilsag/Sagittarius	Between 3 and 4*	8,240 BC
Scorpio	Between 5 and 6*	6,800 BC
Libra	Between 8 and 9*	4,640 BC
Virgo	Between 10 and 11*	3,200 BC
Leo	Between 11 and 12*; 12 is explicitly identified beside the lion	2,480 BC
Aquarius	Between 3 and 4*	8,240 BC
Pisces	Between 4 and 5	7,520 BC
Aries	Between 6 and 7*	6,080 BC
Taurus	Between 9 and 10	3,920 BC
Gemini	Between 11 and 12*	2,480 BC
Cancer	At the dawn end, near 12; Cancer is drawn on Nut’s legs, outside the main procession	(1,760 BC if counted)

I'm not sure how much weight can be given can be given to these goddess placements but they don't simply count along with the order of the Zodiac, they're purposefully out of order, nonetheless it would be good it another Zodiac with them included is available to validate this ordering.

However, if we do take them to be significant it's reasonable to assume then these hours could perhaps be linking to the region or symbolism of each Zodiac to it's most significant period over the course of it's history.

Some line up with historical events, others might. We can go through them all here:

Most convincingly Pabilsag/Sagittarius + Aquarius (both North African regions) both correspond to 8,240 BC when the African Humid Period first allowed the region to become habitable.

Pisces as 7,520 BC does happen to align to exactly when a wave of geometric microliths suddenly spread through Iberia.

This wave of geometric microliths got to France slightly later, possibly justifying 6,080 BC for Aries.

Libra as 4,640 BC, this is around when the Liner industry kicks of whether that justifies the date I'm not sure.

Taurus is 3,920 BC and we do see a prominent solar bull exactly at this hour transition in the Amduat.

Virgo (I now consider this Levant rather than Eithiopia) as 3,200 BC. This is complete speculation but this could be around the time the events of the Ketos, Perseus and Andromeda where playing out with the people of Turkey demanding female captives from Jappa in the Levant. This certainly seems to be a much more recent myth than many considering the family trees of the characters so this could make sense.

Gemini as 2,480 BC. This one is a bit disappointing I thought they may have picked a much earlier date for the Dioscuri, nonetheless this is about the time the Steppe Herders reach this region of the Balkans, it could be this.

Leo is also given this period, possibly tending later towards hour 12. This corresponds well with the period of the rise of the Babylon.

Cancer, is shown as a crab sitting on the lags of Nut, so I'm not sure this really counts. ()although to be this looks like a scarab beetle). Anatolia around 1,760 BC did have the rise of the Hittites, whether this could justify this very final period I'm not sure. I was hoping Cancer would be right at the beginning, the legs of Nut could be like the sequence starting again? It's not clear.

Cancer, is shown as a crab sitting on the lags of Nut

Then there's Capricorn being 9,680 BC which is confusing. Perhaps there's something about this character that has deeper roots, just possibly this half fish figure links back to the mysterious Ophion god said to pre-date even the Titans, but I don't know.

Iberia was allocated the Zodiac sign of Pisces, the two fish. Here is Pisces on the Dendera Zodiac along with it's three decons on the side. The decons are:

1. Four ram heads on a rectangular base

2. The Souls

3. The Khent-Hery figure ("one who is above")

Between the two fish is a miniature sign of Aquarius.

Pisces on a copy of the Dendera Zodiac

Pisces on the Dendera Zodiac, notice the miniature sign of Aquarius between the fish

The ancient civilisation of Iberia was called Tartessus, also called Turdatania. Stabo in his work, Geography, describes Turdetanians of southern Iberia as possessing:

>“records of their ancient history, poems, and laws written in verse that are six thousand years old, as they assert.”

Strabo is writing in about 20 BC. Therefore, six thousand years before aligns closely with the 6200 BC 8.2ka Event which caused sudden storms through Europe and North Africa. This even could have caused the catastrophic collapse of the city of Atlantis and it would have afterwards led to the desertification as the humid period in Africa suddenly ended.

In Europe, this is also the moment we see farming people finally break through Greece. We could imagine early Greece exhumed with storms and flooding, as described by Plato and many of the Indo-European myths. The conquest of these farmers may be Marduk destroying Tiamat. After this empire is established, Marduk surveys the different lands and allocates the Zodiac.

Atlantis had been the home to hundreds of thousands of people by Plato's own account. Suddenly they are all living in a rapidly desolate land, those who can of course migrate away, but where?

Iberia would have been the closest truly fertile land, it's entirely plausible that many Atlanteans resettled here. Other's may have travelled further into Europe and perhaps some to Egypt but Iberia would require the easier journey to reach. Iberia had been the realm of Evaemon, which means Blessed, at least this is the term used by Plato. The fertile climate of the western side especially may be reason to assume Iberia was later known as Elysium, the place it was said fortunate souls would travel to after death.

The region which had been home to Atlantis is allocated the sign of Aquarius. Water vessels would have had privileged use to a sea faring people and the Bottle Gourds of Africa are still used as light weight water vessels to this day.

The region of Iberia is allocated the sign Pisces, which isn't especially interesting Iberia is still known as destination for good fish food today. However, the symbol for Pisces is interesting as it looks like this,♓. This happens to be exactly the same as the most important symbol to the Amazigh tribe of North Africa, which they call the Yaz, ⵣ. the chief symbol within their Tifinagh script.

We could presume that both the Amazighs and Tartessians continued to use this symbol as it may have previously been the chief symbol of Atlantis.

I haven't looked through all the relics and art from ancient Iberia but what I can see is that a number of stone reliefs depict an H symbol within a circles of what look like shield. An H could be a derivative of the Pisces symbol, just cleaned up.

https://preview.redd.it/qtb6ymqldxsh1.jpg?width=761&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e25b761f00b07408e36b521b36a6916729d341be

https://preview.redd.it/y6x12evmdxsh1.jpg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a82a260c9758b7e3e72645348dd8a3408d9a948e

https://preview.redd.it/dy9e2pgndxsh1.jpg?width=709&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64d69033e0379acac7fbde450e406361c80fe875

This is definitely something to be explored.

The idea that Iberia became the subsequent home of the Atlanteans provides a reason for the sign of Aquarius to be shown within Pisces.

The question is still what the three decons mean. The 'souls' align well with the idea of Elysium. The rams could have been common to this region, althogh why four should be in a square is difficult to say and I don't know. The mysteries Khent-Hery figure ("one who is above") I also don't have ideas for but the notion of supremacy is in-keeping with the alternative term for Aquarius as The Great One.

"He [Marduk] constructed stations for the gods, Aligning their astral likenesses as constellations. He determined the year by assigning the zones: He set up three constellations for each of the twelve months. After defining the days of the years by means of astrological figures, He founded the station of Nebiru to determine their divine bands, That none might transgress or fall short."

This is a paragraph from the end of the Enuma Elish https://ia800806.us.archive.org/3/items/Holy-Books/EnumaElish.pdf. Marduk, having defeated Tiamat is dividing up his kingdom, for each region he allocates a constellation, so all groups are represented together in the sky and as months of the year. He even sets a specific place from where the movements can be tracked and marked precisely, Nebiru.

From the eyes of the defeated Tiamat ran the rivers Euphrates and Tigris. We can see that Tiamat must represent mountainous regions of Anatolia with the rest of her body extending beyond this, or more correctly she represents the people occupying this region who were in opposition to Enki and their warrior Marduk.

Anatolia was home to the Western Hunter Gathers and Mesopotamia home to the Early Farmers. Since 7500 BC these Early Farmers had established a foothold in Anatolia, Catalhoyuk. but it is only by about 6600 that they start claiming North Anatolia and Greece.

https://preview.redd.it/jwzickkfyish1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8392b3c5269dc5eb3d8ccf4386370806c769d42

400 years later in 6200 BC farmers are expanding further again and this period overlaps with the 8.2 ka Event that caused storms. Fierce rain storms are described in the Enuma Elish and Plato's Timaeus and Critias.

This course of events is also relayed by Sanchuniathon, he writes:

"Elus, that is Kronos, having waylaid his father Uranus in an inland spot, and got him into his hands, emasculates him near some fountains and rivers. There Uranus was deified: and as he breathed his last, the blood from his wounds dropped into the fountains and into the waters of the rivers”

Crucially this come after a very revealing previous statement:

“[Kronos] became suspicious of his own brother Atlas, and, with the advice of Hermes, threw him into a deep pit and buried him”

Therefore Atlantis had already ready split off from Kronos/Enki before the people secured this supreme reining position of dominance.

This is the same avenging story with blood imagery recounted by many Indo-European traditions, collectively termed by historians "the slaying of Yemo"

Who is Enki? (Also called EA or Nudimmud.) Earlier in the story we're told Enki takes the land of Apsu, and in separate account we're very explicitly told that Apsu in the marshland by the city of Eridu at the south end of Mesopotamia. In the above map we can see that the farming expansion to this area happened in 8300 BC. This is also the area that we know as Eden, with the Euphrates and Tigris explicitly described diverging into four rivers. Therefore this arrival by Enki causes of the expulsion of Eden.

Shortly after, in 8600 BC a new group arrives into Egypt bringing with them new stone liths. This could be Enki expanding further. Indeed, it's hard to know whether the boarder of this group ended from individual tested in Takarkori we know for certain that some people in South West Libya in 5500 BC had some Levantine ancestry, therefore some Levantine people had been migrating into humid West Africa. The question is whether this Levantine group stretching from Mesopotamia to West Africa could have retained a group identity and with is connecting corridor between them.

Since last year we're discovered that there was another currently unnamed distinct ethnic group in North Africa, perhaps it was these people who came to represent the dangerous Egyptian god Seth. In the Book of Two Ways that records these paths Spell 1079 states 'Geb placed the guardian beings in Rosetau to guard Osiris, his son, from Seth; the speaker knows these beings and the protected place' There's a lot more that we can infer from this, if Geb is intending to defend people from this Seth Group, could Geb be linked to Levantine groups migrating through this route and therefore could Geb be the Sumerian Enki? Therefore could Enki be the Levantine groups across all of North African up to the Levant? In Greek terms these were the Titans.

Geb's spouse in Nut. Nut is a representation of the Milky Way but she also has another signature pose and that is as a water bearer, often connecting out of the Tree of Life. The Tree of Life is not only a Hebrew concept but an Egyptian one. Nut hold two vessels of water from which streams more out and in Sumerian depictions Enki is also portrayed with two streams of water coming out his body. This are both reminiscent of the first astrological sign we're going to observe which is Aquarius. Aquarius is the water bearing but it's other name was also "The Great One". If any people group were to be named "The Great One" is seems that Enki is a good match. Aquarius is also shown with the same iconography; pouring water from a vessel. But why? Atlantis is described as growing fruits that can be used as drink. Gourd are on of the few fruits that fulfil this criteria. Bottle Gourds also have a second function, they make ideal water vessel, perfect for any form of voyage. Once found these would have been an inexpendable accessory when trailing through hot Africa.

On the Tree of Life, we can also see that Sekhmet is shown on the right and Thoth on the left.

Tree of Life. Sekhmet is shown on the right and Thoth on the left with Nut in the middle.

South is commonly perceived as up therefore Sekhmet is to the west and Thoth to the east. This aligns to Sekhmet's connection to the destination of Rosetau, Sekhet Hetepet, and Thoth recounts stories from the east, with his hooked nose and wisdom associations he likely is a proto-Jewish people. The Tree of Life must be a metaphor for the gift of collectivism and ingenuity that is no being spread. Sekhet and her son Maahs as representation of the Atlantis people must have rose to dominance after this time, but unlike Marduk were not able to secure domination across the entire Mediterranean.

By the time Marduk is assigning the Zodiac the figure of Maahs are seen one of many mere demons of Tiamat (their distant mother) to be quelled. Following around the next figure is Capicorn, the ramfish. Ramfish. Oh I can't be bothered I'll finish this tomorrow.

I'm going to continue for my enjoyment and for anyone who also likes to know these things. We'll return to the Ramfish and the rest of the main signs in a second but first it's worth looking at the whole Zodiac. Even before we get into this, on the Tree of Life, this a great clip from an interview with Lance Weaver on the similarities of this tree's representation with similar depictions in America, it's worth a watch https://youtu.be/tCdi1mdYtxM?si=u_RkRj2e39bHcNwo&t=2950 unfortunately some his thoughts on other topics in the video such as his endorsing of the Kolbirn Bible as a real document are certainly wrong, but no ones perfect.

On the full Zodiac, some depictions of the full Zodiac have been preserved most helpfully the Dendera Zodiac from Dendera Temple, Egypt. There are also separate linear versions at the temple of Kom ed-Deir and to some degree on the ceiling of the Ramesseum in Egypt.

the Dendera Zodiac from Eastern Osirian Chapel, Dendera Temple, Egypt

the Dendera Zodiac from Eastern Osirian Chapel, Dendera Temple, Egypt - labelled

The Dendera Zodiac consists of a centre zone with the twelve Zodiac constellations plus another twenty constellations, five planets (apparently) and then 36 decons/asterisms around the rim which split into groups of three for each Zodiac sign, as shown above.

Supporting the whole arrangement are four women in line with the cardinal directions. The north and south directions are described (they're labelled Summer Solstice and Winter Solstice in the above diagram). However, the east and west direction aren't described.

Very interestingly, even though you look up to this relief like looking up to the sky the Zodiac is flipped from the true arrangement of the constellations you would see in the sky. This is rationalised as being a god's eye, top down view of the heavens.

In the 50s and 60s a couple of people with archaeology degrees decided that the Zodiac was invented by the Babylonians, and decided based on 'reconstructions' that these Babylonian started with a zodiac of fifteen signs before becoming twelve. None of these assumptions are based on anything, all we know is that we don't have artefacts before this point but this may be due to the fact that the further back in time you go the fewer artefacts survive.

To labour this point, ChatGPT assumes 1.7% of Babylonia astronomical artefacts reference a Zodiac, and the decay rate on artefacts in general is incredible, there are about 1800 astronomical artefacts between 1000-0 BC to just 30 between 2000-1000 BC to just 3 between 3000-2000 BC. The 1.7% rate could double and it would still be unlikely that we should find an astronomical document that happens to describe the Zodiac. This doesn't mean that less and less stuff happened and that everything was invented from the time we first find it, it simply means that it is most likely artefacts haven't survived and can't known what they were without other evidence.

Returning to Marduk, Marduk 'constructed stations for the gods' and 'set up three constellations for each of the twelve months'. This matches what we see in the in the Dendera Zodiac. As it happens the inversion of the Dendera Zodiac also matches the arrangement of twelve match regions in a circle of the Mediterranean, the constellation and three decons matching the associations of each region.

We've discussed the pouring of water vessels by Enki and Nut who are associated with north Africa, the use of Bottle Gourds as water vessel and the association of 'The Great One' to Atlantis.

Let's now look at all the data:

Zodiac sign	Additional three decans
♑ Capricorn	1. Ibis-associated figure, linked to a man restraining an antelope 2. Grey goose 3. Eight bound prisoners within a disc
♒ Aquarius	1. Large solar ram 2. Foremost of the Shining Spirits 3. The Shining Spirits
♓ Pisces	1. Four ram heads on a rectangular base 2. The Souls 3. The Khent-Hery figure ("one who is above")
♈ Aries	1. Child emerging from a lotus 2. Four human-headed cobras inside a square 3. Ram-headed solar symbol on a boat
♉ Taurus	1. Kneeling woman giving birth 2. Pig 3. Upper Shoulder figure
♊ Gemini	1. Tjes-Areq figure (“Binding of Arq”?)2. Lower Shoulder figure 3. Waer figure (flight/departure?)
♋ Cancer	1. Kenmet figure ("first among the stars") 2. Follower of Kenmet 3. Djat figure (boat)
♌ Leo	1. Djat figure 2. Last of Djat 3. Atum figure
♍ Virgo	1. Weshaty figure (darkness) 2. Bak figure (servant) 3. Ipset figure (assessor)
♎ Libra	1. Mummified Osiris 2. Crocodile head with solar disc emerging from a pedestal 3. Seated baboon in a boat
♏ Scorpio	1. Spet figure (Sopdet?) 2. The Leader 3. Son of the Leader
♐ Sagittarius	1. Kenem figure (wrapped) 2. Foremost figure, with an incomplete surviving name 3. The Single Star

Continuing with Aquarius looking at the decons, First, the Solar Ram is consistent with the 'Eye of Ra' goddess of Sekhmet. Then we get two references to Shining Spirits. The Dagon tribe of West Africa describe the arriving Nommo as also "shining" showing a consitancy in this region.

Next Capricorn, if we move anticlockwise along the coast we get to the region of Morocco. In Sumer it is Enki who is associated with Capricorn therefore this North Africa association is consistent. There are also tales of Atlanteans and the ram-fish, Claudius Aelianus recounts stories of Ramfish from people of the Okeanos coast, this being the coast of Morocco. Moving onto the first decon the ibis-man linked to another man restraining an antelope, Sumerian Amurru is associated with a goat or sometimes an antelope, he's also associated with remote mountains this is a good fit, we then get a grey goose and eight bound prisoners within a disc.

Sagittarius, this also called Pabilsag. This makes sense as there wasn't horses in Europe until 2000 BC. However, once horses arrived Algeria and Libya established a strong horse riding association, therefore this area fits well. The decons are limited in their information here.

Scorpio. Cyrene in northern Libya is the second only to part of Morocco for having the densest population of scorpions in Europe. If Spet means Sopdet then this goddess is connected to the when Sirius rises and the Nile floods, we are near Egypt here. The leader is very vague, my hunch is that this is related to Iapetus but we can't know.

Libra. Balance and the Egyptian Duat are linked. Crocodiles and baboons are also present on the Nile river.

Virgo, is also known as the Wheat Sheaf. Interestingly the sea monster Ketos from the story of Perseus and Princess Andromeda features in other Zodiacs, Conon claims Ketos to have been a boat from Anatolia, if included Zodiac it would have been in the wrong place spatially but nonetheless this suggest this story may have zodiac significance and in this story Andromeda is said to have come from Aethiopia, this could explain the virgin connection. Wheat, was later grown there, as most places so this link doesn't tell us anything. Darkness, servant and assessor again aren't instructive.

Leo. Of all the locations lions were prominent in Mesopotamia and North West Africa. Babylon also saw the Lion as one of their core symbols with it featuring on the Ishtar Gate. The Djat is a boat and boat use began very early in this region with people getting to Cyprus in 11,000 BC.

Cancer. Hercules fights Cancer at the same time as Hydra. The Hydra was either people in the Peloponese or Anatolia. Kenmet is very interesting because it meant "first among the stars", Tiamat was the mother of all. Kenmet is also a symbol of three snakes horizontal with one upright with is very similar to a symbol connected to the Gnostic Yaldabaoth, see below. Therefore, Gnosticism may have been associated with this region, perhaps a remnant of the WHG culture. Again we have a boat, the earliest sea travel started here in Anaolia/Greece.

Gemini. Of course the twin sculptures of the Vinca Culture in the Balkans but even more interestingly Sanchuniathon describes the Dioscuri (Children of God) as coming from Samos, Thrace, they inventing the first ships and had crests on their heads, he says. The Dioscuri are famously twins. We get a word for blinding of something which is unclear and lower shoulder figure and then Waer, which means flight or departure. The Dioscuri were said to have travelled around on boats, they are also the best contender for the Apkallu given their crested heads. I haven't focused on the placements of additional constellations in the centre but here we prominently has Sar, a manifestation of Osiris, perhaps suggesting his origin being here.

Taurus. The bull is a central icon of Zeus of the Italy and Greece region but as a more subtle observation, Homer's Thrinacia island was Sicily, because we know the Strait of Messina was the location of Scylla and Charybdis, another bull reference to this area. A woman given birth and a pig, neither of these is instructive.

Aries. The cooler land of West Europe would have been well suited as sheep country. The decons aren't clear to me here, a child emerging from a lotus, four human-headed cobras a ram-headed solar symbol.

Lastly, Pisces. The first decon is rams again. Iberia a perfect place for sheep farming and fishing. The souls could be a nod to the destination of the Elysian Fields and Khent-Hery "the one who is above" is unknown.

Cancer's Kenmet and Yaldabaoth

The corelations to this arrangement are very strong. No other arrangement could come close. Its interesting to think how these symbols were mapped to the stars, Taurus is the one constellation that we know dates back deep into stone age, they had to be kept as Taurus. The only really clear shape is that of the sitting lion Leo, but they must have realised that they needed to flip the sky to align this to Mesopotamia. The rest of the constellation are truly also abstract shapes many using very few stars. It's clear the that symbology didn't emerge from people looking into the shapes by were attached to shapes as a means of remember them.

The other Mediterranean wide comparison we can make is to Hour 8 of the Amduat. This is perhaps at a very slight later time and it again shows the Mediterranean broken into groups with attributes and clues in their names, the names of the chambers and the way each is differently described.

https://preview.redd.it/2w6pxgbqapsh1.png?width=1347&format=png&auto=webp&s=4f3c2ae8d2476b3ccc1a2878c11d035c8a036bee

Last relevant point on this is that Ptolemy and Manilius, Astronomica wrote about potential regional placement of the different signs. We don't know what information they was using to draw these conclusions. Some align many are off, it isn't unexpected that knowledge of this would have been lost, it's incredible that any knowledge of placements survived at all.

Sign	Ptolemy's principal regions	Additional "central" regions
♈ Aries	Britain, Gaul, Germania, Bastarnia	Coele-Syria, Palestine/Idumaea, Judaea
♉ Taurus	Parthia, Media, Persia	Cyclades, Cyprus, coastal Asia Minor
♊ Gemini	Hyrcania, Armenia, Matiana	Cyrenaica, Marmarica, Lower Egypt
♋ Cancer	Numidia, Carthage, Africa	Bithynia, Phrygia, Colchis
♌ Leo	Italy, Cisalpine Gaul, Sicily, Apulia	Phoenicia, Chaldaea, Orchinia
♍ Virgo	Mesopotamia, Babylonia, Assyria	Greece/Hellas, Achaea, Crete
♎ Libra	Bactria, Casperia, Serica	Thebaid, Oasis, Troglodytica
♏ Scorpio	Metagonitis, Mauritania, Gaetulia	Syria, Commagene, Cappadocia
♐ Sagittarius	Tyrrhenia, Celtica, Spain	Arabia Felix
♑ Capricorn	India, Ariana, Gedrosia	Thrace, Macedonia, Illyria
♒ Aquarius	Sarmatia/Sauromatica, Oxiana, Sogdiana	Arabia, Azania, Middle Ethiopia
♓ Pisces	Phazania, Nasamonitis, Garamantica	Lydia, Cilicia, Pamphylia

Sign	Regions assigned by Manilius
♈ Aries	Hellespont, Propontis, Syria, Persia; Egypt/Nile also occurs in this passage, though its precise assignment is textually awkward
♉ Taurus	Scythian mountains, Asia [Minor], Arabia
♊ Gemini	Black Sea/Euxine, Thrace, Ganges/India
♋ Cancer	Ethiopia
♌ Leo	Phrygia, Cappadocia, Armenia, Bithynia, Macedonia
♍ Virgo	Rhodes, Ionia, Dorian lands, Arcadia, Caria
♎ Libra	Italy/Rome
♏ Scorpio	Carthage, Libya, Hammonia [Siwa/Ammon region], Cyrene, Sardinia and other Mediterranean islands
♐ Sagittarius	Crete, Sicily, Magna Graecia [southern Italy]
♑ Capricorn	Spain, Gaul, Germany — broadly his far western/northwestern world
♒ Aquarius	Egypt, Tyre, Cilicia, lands adjoining Caria
♓ Pisces	Euphrates, Tigris, Red Sea/eastern sea, Parthia, Bactria, “Ethiopians” of the east, Babylon, Susa, Nineveh

The Amduat is sacred story split into twelve 'hours' with each scene showing the sun god Ra sailing, or his boat being dragged through, a different place, it's often depicted in the kings of Pharaohs from 1500 BC onwards. It describes itself as:

Writings of the hidden chamber
the standing-places of the ba-souls,
the gods,
the shadows,
the akh-spirits,
and what is done.

The line "and what is done" suggests history. A random, slightly mad, guy on X was sharing his thoughts on the Amduat, suggesting that it's a record of the complete Holocene; spanning from about 10,000 BC until 1500 BC, I think he's right.

There's a free version of the full translation online by Wallis Budge here https://sacred-texts.com/egy/bat/index.htm and I've attached all the associated segments of text to images in this pdf. https://aedra.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/amduat-all-information.pdf

I enjoyed reading it and wanted to write to Budge to ask him what he thinks of this interpretation but it turns out he died a century ago.

Sir Ernest Alfred Thompson Wallis Budge

Each hour appears to correspond well to roughly a 720 year period, starting from 10,400 BC. It also appears that each hour is a very rough diagrammatic map with south at the top.

To prove this, we can align many of the depicted events to historical events of the time period they fall into with this 720 year allocation, as in Hour Two (9680 - 8960 BC):

• There are boats to Hathor and Neper, goddesses of cows and grain, this is when cows and grain are first bred and cultivated.
• URNES sounds a lot like Uranus, the first Greek god (side point)
• We see blades appear here as geometric microliths start being using in Greece and Egypt
• and then black blades like obsidian blades which later took off in this period.

Hour Eight (5360-4640BC)

• everyone is sewing as woven clothing had been invented

Hour Nine (4640-3920 BC), we see:

• linen production in the top left, where Egypt is, this became Egypt's industry
• fire serpents which could represent for furnaces and metallurgy in the lower left where Eastern Europe, this was their industry

Hour Eleven (3200 - 2480 BC):

• shows the unification of the crowns of upper and lower Egypt
• describes Egypt's expansion east, which also happened at this time in South Levant

Where these events are shown then corresponds to the south-up arrangement of the Mediterranean.

The key part for Atlantis is Hour Four, this is the period from 8240 to 7520 BC. Like all the hours the underlying narrative is heavily symbolised and personified by creatures, symbols and gods, and requiring decryption. This hour is dominated by a connecting 'corridor' which cuts through the piece.

I think the corridor might represent a connected coasted network in North Africa and that the different snakes are major rivers that along this route.

Hour Four of the Amduat overview

A winged serpent is described as "warder of this holy way". I think it represents this coastal route with the rivers in Jordan, Egypt and Libya potentially then being the three 'heads', the tail ending in the Chotts and wings being the fertile land of West Africa emanating out from the Chotts at this time.

A winged serpent is described as \"warder of this holy way\" rivers in Jordan, Egypt and Libya potentially then being the three 'heads', the tail ending in the Chotts and wings being the fertile land of West Africa

The next snake is the important one for Atlantis, I think. It's called NEHEB-KAU i.e, “never goes elsewhere”, and has two heads at one end and one head at the other, it is also set back from the main corridor route. I think the two heads rivers from the Atlas Mountains into a lake at that time called Lake Ahnet and then that the body is the Tamanrasset River from this lake to the coast which ends in it's final head. Crucially, this final head is being carried by an unknown god who has been translated as in some versions as “He who praises the head.” This is a catfish/crocodile-headed god and he's carrying a curly staff.

This figure, I think, is a representation of the Atlantis people, or Atlas, living beside this final head of the river.

“He who praises the head.” holding the tail-head of NEHEB-KAU - possibly representing Atlantis

Closer image from tomb KV34

In other depictions you can see that he's carrying a curling staff.

Tomb KV17: “He who praises the head.” holding the tail-head of NEHEB-KAU - close-up of curly staff

It's very annoying that the image of this character is damaged and I wish there was a good depiction of the head in a differnt Amduat version and I tried finded one but couldn't.

This region comes up again in Hour Eight (5360 - 4640 BC) and is named “Mistress of the wind.” which could be suggestive of sailing. We also appear to see the same catfish/crocodile-headed god this time with the name name AFFI. This region of West Africa is corroborated by the appearance of the god on the right as a hippo.

Hour Eight: the same god as before seated, named AFFI under “Mistress of the wind.” implying sailing

The accompanying text of this region also suggests it faced some kind of terrible disaster. Budge's translation reads:

“Those who are in this picture are [seated] upon their instruments for weaving, which are set firmly on their sand, according to the mystery which Horus made. This god crieth out to their souls in whatsoever regions they are, and there is heard the sound of the voices of those who are shut ill this Circle, which is like unto the sound of those who make supplication through terror when their souls cry out to Ra. The name of this Circle is “NEBT-SEMU-NIFU,” i.e,"Mistress of the wind".

Everyone in this hour is weaving so this isn't notable but the wailing about something is unique.

Returning to AFFI, his earlier depiction is interesting because of his curly staff.

There are already strong similarities between the feathered serpent of Quetzalcoatl and depictions of dragons and depictions of the Apkallu from Mesopotamia but that's a different discussion. Quetzalcoatl is also represented as a person who carried a distinctive curly staff, sometimes with star on it.

Quetzalcoatl's curly staff

I was looking for old world gods who reflect this distinctivey curly staff and the best I had found was the Sumerian god Amurru. However, his staff appears more distinctly as a shepherds crook rather than having a complete curl. Nonetheless the interesting thing about Amurru is that he shares his name with the Peruvian name for Quetzalcoalt being Amaru. At least this is what we're told by James Morgan Pryse who wrote:

"He was the God Quetzalcoatl in Mexico, Gucumatz in Quiché; and in Peru he was called Amaru. From the latter name comes our word America."

So there is also a case to be made for Amurru perhaps linking to the Sumerian version of this figure.

Amurru

However regarding AFFI, his curly staff is much more similar to Quetzalcoatl than even Amurru's and he also shares similarities to Quetzalcoatl's serpentine face, which may or may not be relevant.

Quetzalcoatl's serpentine face

In summary, a figure in the Amduat appears to align well as a representation of the region/people of Atlantis people because he:

is holding the tail-head of the river snake NEHEB-KAU, which is similar to the end of the Tamanrassett river connecting to Lake Ahnet and then other rivers, like the heads of the snake;

is separately shown again in Hour Eight placed in a top right quadrant with a hippo creature which would appear to align spatially to West Africa and,

this quadrant is described as "mistress of the wind" evoking sailing;

is evoked as having suffered through some bad event;

has a similar face to and holds a similar curled staff as Quetzalcoatl.

The Bayeux Tapestry goes on display in the British Museum next week, however you can also view the full tapestry online https://www.bayeuxmuseum.com/en/the-bayeux-tapestry/discover-the-bayeux-tapestry/explore-online/

The depictions of the invading Normans (moving left to right) and the native Anglo-Saxon Britons (right to left) have been useful for historians to gain a snapshot of the appearance, clothing, weapons and iconography of these peoples at this 1070 AD time.

The dragons on the shields of the Anglo-Saxons and dragons used as windsocks have helped us confirm that dragons was used as an Anglo-Saxon symbol and banner.

Dragon wind-sock

Dragons on shields, the rider's hair is also gelled upwards with blue woad

Dragons are also shown on the boats. Boats in the tapestry are both Norman and Anglo-Saxon, although the Norman force's boat's also include boats from their Dutch and Briton allies. Dragon heads and other creatures are shown as carved into the bows (fronts) and sterns (rears) of the boats.

What is interesting about this is that the dragons are primarily on the sterns not the bows:

Of the five fully visible dragon-bearing boats all have dragons at the stern and only two also have a dragon at the bow. None of the fully visible boats has a dragon exclusively at the bow.

We know very little about the dragon-boats of England and France. We have much more evidence of the dragon-boats of the Norse, so this difference in dragon head placement is very interesting.

Dragon at stern, person at bow

Dragon at stern, Fleur-de-lis at bow

Double dragon

Double dragon

Dragon at stern, nothing at bow

So far this is all normal history.

The reason this is in this sub is because I think this is relevant to the earliest depiction of a boat, this being a artefact from Gobekli Tepe dated, loosely, to about 9700 BC:

Gobekli Tepe \"Totem Pole\"

The sculpture is of a bear/monster with an adult and child inside. This sculpture being a boat has not been confirmed, it remains officially undeciphered but maybe in time it uncovered. The faces have all been purposefully damaged. The head of the monster is at the stern not at the bow. On the sides of the boat two snake-like creatures are depicted, however these creatures have actually been identified as catfish by Dragoş Gheorghiu.

These sculptures shares attributes with the pillars meaning that the creature is also the Tas Tepeler figure.

I wonder whether this ancestral Tas Tepeler-figure/bear, carved into the first boats, developed to become the later dragon that spread across the world, through becoming combined with; a catfish, eagle, bear/feline, horns and sun.

Given that catfish already have a strong presence at these sites, and given that ceremonial dressing as a bird was a big deal in the nearby Catalhoyuk by 7500 BC, it's not inconceivable that these two animals were combined with the bear-headed boats.

Traditional Chinese Dragon Boats have a scaled body with elements of catfish, such as catfish barbels on the faces.

Fish scaled dragonboat, catfish barbels on face

Chinese dragon with bear ears

We also see what could be a fish-scaled pattern on boats nearer Gobekli Tepe in Egypt. It's possible that the boats of Gobekli Tepe were also scaled however none of the boats from this period have been preserved so we are unable to know.

Egyptian boat bow with scale-like pattern

Hour 2 of the Egyptian KV34 relief, which corresponds to approximately 9900 to 9200 BC shows the boats of this period with heads at the stern rather than the bow. On the last one is the red Eye of Ra and a Feather of Maat.

Extract from Hour 2 KV34 corresponding to 9900BC - 9200 BC - heads at the stern, Ra and feather of Maat in the boat

If the Tas Tepeler boats had scale patterns like catfish, then you would have a scaled body and bear-headed creature. The Feather of Maat and Eye of Ra depicted in the above image are two more missing ingredients: a bird-of-prey and a red circle; the red circle becoming the Chinese dragon's 'red orb' and in other cultures coming to represent fire.

The only elements that would then be missing are the upright horns and the curled horns but horns do appear around Ra so this may explain the first set of upright horns.

Uraeus

Kurdish Shahmaran

Shahmaran also deserves a mention at this point as this strange Kurdish creature has a boat-like quality, here again the dragon head is at what could be the stern.

All of this to say that I think dragons being mainly at the stern of the boats in the Bayeux Tapestry may tie into a long history of dragon-boats originally developing from carved dug-out during the time of the Tas Tepeler.

In 2026, I think it's worth standing back and taking stock of the fact that there's been a massive shift in our understanding of mythology over this past decade.

Just one decade ago it was considered a difficult position to suggest oral traditions could have preserved a myths for 7000+ years, let alone that these myths could contain factual historical information from this period. This was truly considered utterly implausible and silly just ten years ago.

The oldest known myths up until this point were Sumerian tablets dating back about 6000 years, and these stories don't show any immediate connection to known events.

Then, in 2016, a paper was published showing that Aboriginal myths that spoke of changing coastlines happened to reflect changing coastlines 7000 years ago.

This caught a few headlines and was sort of interesting, but as a bit of a one off case wasn't consequential. However, since then there has been a bit of a watershed in terms of the papers and scientific journal articles that have validated similar examples. In the majority of years since 2016 another myth has been shown to relate to a very ancient historical event and at an accelerating rate, here's a list:

2016 - Aboriginal myth of coastlines shown to relate to 7000 year old coastlines

2017 - Aboriginal myth shown to relate to a 7000 year old Queensland eruption

2019 - Aboriginal myth of volcano shown to relate to a 9000 year old eruption

2022 - Five Celtic myths observed to relate to rising seas between 5000-15000 years ago

2023 - Aboriginal myth observed to relate to a land connection to Tasmania 12000 years ago

2025 - Isle of Man stories shown to relate to the island connecting to Britain 8000 years ago

2025 - Submerged walls found off France where the myth of Ys said a city used walls to hold back the seas, the walls date to approximately 8000 years ago.

There are also many myths that appear to relate to history as interesting corelations but haven't yet been published and validated, these include:

A 1983 theory that the four rivers of the Garden of Eden relate to the Euphrates, Tigris and two now dried up rivers that connected to them which were last fully active 7000 years ago, Juris Zarins’s Persian Gulf hypothesis.

A Welsh myth of Branwen, Daughter of Llŷr, which describes a time when the Irish Sea was two rivers that could be crossed. This was the case 16,000 years ago.

The Greek myth of Pheaton driving the chariot of the sun and causing Africa to become hotter describes a similar event to the sudden end of the African Humid Period 8000 years ago.

A 2020 article on the Aboriginal myth of Budj Bim aligning to the events of a 37,000 year old eruption.

Finds from the Tas Tepeler which show continuity with later sculptures and motifs from Egypt and Mesopotamia, such as the statue of Min, Wajet and the Master of Animals motif. The Tas Tepeler are 12,000 years old, 9000 years before these later artifacts were created.

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Quietly over the last decade a wealth of mythic correlations to ancient history have been validated, and others which haven't yet been published but at least corelate with ancient events.

If taken seriously, any one of these published examples ought to have overturned a deeply rooted assumption that perseveres as assumptions so, that myths that talk of a very ancient past tend to be made-up accounts. We have many myths that now prove the contrary, instead, it may be more prudent to assume that myths tend to record history.

This is of course how change happens, our positions reflect our societal norms and no one remembers strongly holding a position that oral history cannot last more than 7000 years just 10 years ago, as such as position is now deemed obviously undeniable and people forget. But the default assumption that myths should be considered false stories somehow still perpetuates.

The myths of Atlantis, Zep Tepe, the Titans, the Aesir and many others have been dismissed as inconceivable of historical basis, partly for the reason that is was inconceivable that oral history dating back 7000+ years could have remained in been preserved, but there's no longer a clear implausibility to such oral accounts. They have also been dismissed for containing supernatural elements and gods, but all the above myths also contain supernatural elements, framing the record of real events, Likewise the ancient stories of Sumer were assumed to be stories because a century ago up until this decade it was not considered common for myth to preserve ancient history, but this has now been shown to be very plausible inviting a reconsideration. Lastly, the historian Sanchuniathon presents many of the Greek gods not as gods but as kings in his detailed Phoenician History. In 2024, Eleftheria Pappa published an article which made the case that Sanchuniathon's work may have been unjustly labelled as confabulation, showing that his recorded events that we have records for are accurate.

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Perhaps a growing interest online inquestioning the story of our ancient past and questioning how myths may relate to history is reflective of the fact thar our assumptions on how far back oral history can preserve information has quietly been shifting.

At some point this growing body of research of connections between myths and ancient history might demand a wider change in our default assumptions on myths and their purpose, and enable the possible overlaps between myth and history to become a more acceptable area of historical discussion, and even a serious and active area of academic research.

This is a fantastic marathon complete Greek mythological story video: https://youtu.be/RvTuBE0x55M?si=Cl3_toSS2-4SfK7U

This post proposes a the Euphemist take on this story; the true history behind the myth.

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Firstly, we have Gaia and Tartarus. Gaia is the Fertile Crescent, the basket for humanity. Tartarus being in the underworld is north for this area curved further from the path of the sun which might be considered up.

Sea faring began in 13,000 BC, old canoes became culturally important and were carved and reused in shelters. From this tradition came the Tas Tepeler in 10,000 BC, these were the people of Gaia and the hunter-gatherers in the north were the people of Tartarus.

From Gaia came Ouranos. Could this be the Natufians in Southern Levant? (Although Sanchuniathon appears to place King Ouranos after the Titans, I assume around 9000-8500 BC, perhaps a figure with the same name who fed into the Ouranos narrative).

From Ouranos came the Titans.

https://preview.redd.it/4buwd0wppsjh1.png?width=1899&format=png&auto=webp&s=37cb482c04ae1b458a62c60325235499aa12e141

Perhaps the spread of early settlement and technology such as geometric microliths at the end of the Ice Age and turn of the Holocene. In Plato we're told technology spread in the form of Hephaestus reaching Greece in 9600 BC and Egypt 8600 BC.

Oceanus was first, the Titan of spring water and encircling world ocean. Potentially the deity of the Tas Tepeler, sites of water control on hills; the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates.

As people spread from rivers along the Levantine coast, could this be the spread of Oceanus along the encircling world, founding 3000 river gods?

With the Titans come the Cyclopes and Hecatoncheires; craftsmen and armies.

https://preview.redd.it/qi5t0teessjh1.png?width=1899&format=png&auto=webp&s=a659e1042c81b55df1716a8da743258c7ed13e24

I also wonder whether the round eye of the Cyclopes was an early Bindi or Deq, a custom of forehead dots. This could have been the practice of the hunter-gatherer peoples. Both these representations are cast into Tartarus (north of the Fertile Crescent).

The rest of the Titans represent spread of technology and people groups across regions throughout the Mediterranean (orangey arrows).

https://preview.redd.it/4a42o88d2tjh1.png?width=6609&format=png&auto=webp&s=6e0a42e293267bb928b3f0cf44076de32bfad27c

Atlas and Atlantis. I write about Atlantis extensively in other posts and have a paper with a proof of the spring formation of the city here https://www.academia.edu/171244086/Remote_sensing_observations_of_possible_palaeogroundwater_discharge_structures_in_the_inner_Richat_Structure_Mauritania

Atlantis is relevant insomuch as it eachos themes of this Titan network. I assume the Atlanteans became the highest population group for a time and assumed authority.

The pairings and adjective names of the ten kings of Atlantis align well to Mediterranean regions.

https://preview.redd.it/6z57p3ev4tjh1.jpg?width=7001&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40efda67d4ddc427c4a8f14a314aed632717f7e7

To speedrun the rest.

https://preview.redd.it/k2qkzp235tjh1.png?width=1874&format=png&auto=webp&s=36b20d010d37b5d85d191965bd822cee0ea76bbe

Kronos represents time and farming, the creep of this new way of life on the hunter-gatherer kingdom of Ouranos. Kronos and Rhea are the people of Anatolia, the Anatolian Neolithic Farmers (ANFs) in Catalhoyuk and other settlements.

The slaying of Ouranos is the colonisation of Greece from the Western Hunter-Gatherers (WHGs) around 6200 BC, which happened to coincide with the 8.2ka Event causing widespead storms. Earthquakes occur near Norway at this time as well, and perhaps in other areas of Europe. This event is described with is trembling mountains and war between these two primeval figures in all Indo-European mythologies as well as being the war in the Atlantis text.

Kronos is the god of the Old Testament. His rule is powerful and vengeful. Unsurprisingly, his rule is overthrown by a figure not long after, Zeus Belus. Reclaiming Greece and freeing various peoples. Although the rule of this figure appears to have become represented with Typhon in the Greek account.

The ANF conquest of Europe coincides with the start of metallurgy and the forge. Prometheus may well have been related to this event. (Both Prometheus and Atlas are born from Iapetus which makes Iapetus difficult to place.)

Pandora receiving gifts from all the gods may represent the rise of a new mixed group pf people, with attributes of the ANF and WHG. Diversifying genetics can prevent certain genetic issues for a few generations, but the effect doesn't last hence her story of acquiring illnesses by opening her box.

The Flood is the Black Sea Deluge in 5600 BC, no other event caused water to rise up to the horizon. Noah was warned by the Titans, the Elohim, the Gods.

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https://preview.redd.it/swz3virpatjh1.png?width=794&format=png&auto=webp&s=7720f4b63be2554409dc975f46ffadeb04247150

I didn't know this but there's evidence that the people living in Greece were sea-faring from 13,000 BC. We know this because they start collecting and bringing back a type of obsidian, only found on the island of Milos, to make obsidian axes. Sea levels were about 80m lower at this time but Milos was still separated from the mainland by a chain of five islands each with 10km of water between them.

Later in 9700 BC we also see a major technological shift, as people emerged from the genetic bottleneck of the ice age, this date aligning with the 9600 BC date we receive from Plato for when the people of Greece first 'received the seed from Earth and Hephaestus'.

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In 130,000 BC and 200,000 BC early non-Homo-Sapien humans had gotten to Naxos and Crete, which is an equally impressive seafaring feat as Milos but it seems they weren't travelling frequently enough to establish permanent settlement and the seafaring technology was later lost.

Europe became occupied by Homo Sapiens from 45,000 BC. This European Sapien population reduced to 20,000 people at a point during the last ice age. After this genetic bottleneck event the remaining population formed a genetic group known as the Western Hunter Gatherers (WHG).

The ice age ended in 12,700 BC and temperature rose 10 degrees in what is called the Bølling-Allerød interstadial, this is around the time we find the evidence of early sea faring to Milos.

A bit later, in 12,000 BC or 11,000 BC, people got to the island of Cyprus.

In 10,800 BC it suddenly got cold again in the Younger Dryas, which continued for 1,300 years. In 9700 BC temperatures in Europe quickly rose by about 3-4 degrees again and slowly this is the beginning of a to shift towards a humid period in Europe and Africa.

At this 9700 BC there is the largest detectable shift in technology with different stone tools and changing settlement patterns. This date aligns with the date of the seeding of Earth and Hephaestus Plato speaks of.

Plato also says that Egypt received the seed of Earth and Hephaestus 1000 years after the Greeks, so 8600 BC. This is the exact time when a large technological shift occurs in Egypt and it is assumed an incoming population colonises the region although we don't known who genetically as remains haven't been sequenced. I made a previous post about this 8600 BC point in Egypt here https://www.reddit.com/r/atlantis/s/vYivSpNxOk

And here's the key image with information:

https://preview.redd.it/x53vbj9uvcfh1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=a89c9a947155028ae6371ad373c10f66ee6e50ce

It's now thought that this 8600 BC incoming group arrived from the east moving west into Africa as humidity increased.

Both Greece and Egypt show a shift towards smaller bladelets and geometric microliths as well as more stone wood composite tools, in what are collectively called Mesolithic technologies.

This particular style of geometric microlith had actually been present in the Levant 10,000 years earlier in Kebaran/Natufian sites, first around 18,000-11,700 BC, before similar techniques show up in Greece, around 9700 BC, and in Egypt, in 8600 BC.

Just before this lithic technique dissemination the Tas Tepeler sites begin in Turkey in 10,000 BC.

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Returning to the WHGs in Greece. After 9700 BC they become more reliant on fishing and after 8000 BC even start regularly harpooning tuna (at least the evidence we have from Franchthi Cave shows this).

I mention this because in the different Sumerian story of the Enūma Eliš there are the characters Tiamat and Apsu. They lead to the arrival of a much more industrial group called the Anunnaki.

Tiamat is called "saltwater" and Apsu is called "freshwater". If the WHGs were reliant on a sea hunting lifestyle, eating tuna and sailing around the Greek islands it's reasonable to assume these people could represent Tiamat.

Likewise, people in Egypt rely entirely on the massive freshwater Nile and so it's reasonable to assume these people could be Apsu.

The Anunnaki are then these in new industrious Tas Tepeler people. In Sumerian myth they are born from Anu and Urash who are similar to founding gods Uranus and Gaia in Greek mythology.

The Tas Tepeler people are influenced by both Leventine Natufian and Mesopotamian groups, so it's possible that the Natufians represent Uranus/Anu and possibly the Mesopotamian Groups Gaia.

The Natufians are fairly genetically similar to the WHGs with the two groups having diverged around 25,000 BC.

I think the gods Plato calls Earth, or then Athena, and Hephaestus are also Gaia and Uranus.

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All in all, initially there are four groups: Gaia (Near East), Uranus (Natufians), Tiamat (Greek WHG), Apsu (Proto-Egyptians). They give rise the Titan Oceanus the first Titan (or Annunaki), the people that Plato mistakenly calls the "race of Poseidon". They move into Egypt colonising Apsu and as Enki or founding Egyptian god Nun. Other's then continue west along the newly humid North Africa to the Chotts.

I didn't bring up canoes in this post, but I think the dugout canoe was the mode of vessel people were using, this being origin of the Tas Tepeler T-Pillars, the reason the WHGs could start hunting tuna and essential for the expansion of people whilst remaining a connected network. The canoe found, and the first boat of any type, is the Pesse Canoe found in the Netherlands in 8500 BC. Whether this developed independently or what evidence of exploratory migration all the way into Europe is unknown. But people didn't make it across the sea to Ireland until 500 years later in 8000 BC, so the use of boat in this region of Europe must have only just been starting.

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Jack and the Beanstalk is a well known story or myth, it was first published in 1734 but was likely a known story before.

The name Jack is a modern. The original names and details of the story are lost. However, the key elements survive: A cow, a magic bean, a giant with lots of gold, a hen that lays golden eggs, and a harp.

Cows were introduced to Southern Europe by about 6000 BC. Cows reached Northern Europe in 4000 BC.

The bean was likely Fava Bean, one of the earliest cultivated crops. Fava Bean is native to North Africa and Asia and was introduced to Southern Europe in 5500 BC but took as long as until 1000/500 BC to be introduced to Northern Europe.

Gold started to be mined a little bit later in 4500 BC in the Varna Culture region in Southern Europe. Gold reached Northern Europe in 2000 BC.

Hens were introduced to this same Eastern Europe region much later again, around 3000 BC. Hen's only reached Northern Europe in 500 BC.

Last of all harps were introduced to Europe from Egypt around 2500 BC and didn't reach Northern Europe until 500 AD, but, the similar instrument the Lyre reached Northern Europe in 500 BC.

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Therefore, the story wouldn't have made much sense in southern Europe as the cultivation of Fava beans long predated hens, harps or gold, but it would makes sense in Northern Europe at around 500 BC, as 500 BC is the time that Fava beans, hens and lyres were being introduced to this region.

Fava Bean

Lyre

But this is all basically conventional history, boring.

The structure of 'a boy steals treasure from a giant/ogre' is assumed to be of Proto-Indo-European origin, therefore thought to date to at least 4500 BC/2500 BC. Two versions of the story were published, one where Jack enters the mythical realm of the giant without the hen and harp and one with these, it could be that different theme were being combined.

The first version published without the hen and harp instead features a beanstalk that grows 40 miles high, Jack is given a magic ring and granted 5 wishes, after this he defeats the giant to become king of all.

It's my opinion that the Bottle Gourd featured much more prominently in ancient history than people realise. It's a plant that, although native to Africa, turns up in America and Middle East in 7000 BC, and in Chine in 5000 BC with varieties that appear to have genetically split from Africa in 8500 BC. When dried the gourd can be used as vessels to carry water making it incredibly useful for early societies.

The gourd features as a crop in the biblical story of Jonas and the Whale, a story with shared origin as the Sumerian Apkallu. In Plato's account of Atlantis he discusses fruits that can be drunk. The unripe Bottle Gourd provides juicy flesh and water.

The Bottle Gourd is much more akin to a magical endlessly growing vine than the Fava bean which grows straight up to 1.8m. The Bottle Gourd coils around it's environment and can be +10m long.

I think the first story related to the introduction of this new crop from tropical Africa to Proto-Indo-Europeans in North Africa and Mesopotamia in 8500 BC.

Bottle Gourd