Amazon rainforest
Deforestation of the Amazon rainforest
Deforestation of the Amazon rainforest
South East Europe underwent a humid period at the same time as Africa making Greece substantially more fertile than it was today in 8000-6000BC.
Landscape of Greece in ancient times as described by Plato
Critias:
In fertility the whole land here surpassed every other land; for this reason the country was then able to support a large army that was free from the labours of farming.
And there is great evidence of its excellence: for the remnant that now remains rivals any land in being most fertile in crops and most suitable for grazing all kinds of animals.
But at that time, besides its beauty, it produced these things in great abundance.
In those days the mountains had high hills of earth upon them, and the plains now called the “fields of Phelleus” possessed deep rich soil; and there was much forest in the mountains, of which even now there remain visible proofs.
There were also many other tall cultivated trees, and the land produced limitless pasture for livestock and the yearly water, the gift of Zeus, was harvested by the land, not as now where it is lost, flowing off the bare earth into the sea but the soil held it in abundance and received it into itself. Stored up in the earth as if beneath a roof of pottery, it released the water that had been absorbed from the high ground into the hollows, distributing it everywhere and providing abundant springs and rivers.
The flooding and destruction of Greece
Timeaus:
But at a later time, when extraordinary earthquakes and floods occurred, in a single day and night of grievous calamity, all your warrior force together sank into the earth,
Critias
the soil which has washed down from the high places during these ages and disasters has not, as in other regions, accumulated into a mass worth mentioning; instead it has continually flowed around and disappeared into the depths.
a single night of extraordinary rain washed away the soil and left it bare, accompanied by earthquakes and an extraordinary flood
What remains now, compared with what then existed, is like the skeleton of a body wasted by disease: all the rich and soft soil having been washed away, and only the thin framework of the land left behind.
Splendour* sorry
The Colouration of the Ridges of the Richat
The three ridges of the Richat Structure align precisely to the position and size of the the walls in the description of Atlantis and, of course, are the walls. https://aedra.co.uk/atlantis/#overlay
Topographical map of the Richat Structure
Diagram of the ridges of the Richat Structure
However they are described as each being clad in a different metal.
Critias 116c https://aedra.co.uk/atlantis/critias/
"the wall around the outermost ring they encased over its entire circuit with bronze, as if applying a coating; and the one inside they overlaid with tin, and the (third) around the acropolis itself there flashed fiery gleams from orichalcum."
Even if the walls merely had a 200m perimeter this would already be on the edge of conceivability, but the outer wall is described as having a 400km perimeter and the inner ring a 19km perimeter.
I previously thought that perhaps this could be explained if only the gate towers were coated in this metal like the decorated gate tower of Babylon but actually there's a much simpler and more prosaic solution (credit u/Porkypineer), that the stone ridges were naturally coloured differently due to their differnt stone compositions and that the idea of them being purposely coated was a narrative exaggeration.
This aligns much better with the phrase "..as if applying a coating..".
It happens that each of the ridges is made of a different rock composition and therefore they naturally have different colours that correspond to the colours described. The whole site is so dusty today that this isn't so clear but if the ridges were washed with a bit of rain and were district from a vegetated ground this might have been more obvious.
Outer ridge "bronze"
As shown in the diagram above the outer ridge is sandstone. The layer forming this ridge would need to be a slightly harder, erosion-resistant band of sandstone but still sandstone and sandstone has a naturally golden-red tone similar to bronze.
Middle ridge "tin"
The middle ridge is still within the sandstone layers in my simplified diagram but is described as mix of sandstone and limestone and must have a different composition because it shows up very prominently in the magnetics imagery from this paper https://www.researchgate.net/figure/D-magnetic-and-gravimetric-modelling-of-the-Richat-structure-along-a-NNE-SSWoriented_fig4_355898398, which suggests it is much richer in magnetic minerals. Limestone is naturally greyer than sandstone and magnetic mineral ore also tends to be naturally greyish. This grey tone is similar to the colour of tin.
Central ridge "red orichalcum"
This ridge is most compositionally different being primarily made of igneous and breccia rock. Breccia is a type of rock formed by a combination of crushed igneous and sedimentary rocks and is commonly reddish in tone. It can contain shiny igneous rocks stained reddish by iron oxide such as brown chert and red jasper. This matches the description "there flashed fiery gleams from orichalcum"
Rather disappointingly this suggests the allusive orichalcum which had been suggested to possibly be a mixture of silver and copper might actually not be a metal at all but simply these pieces of chert and jasper.
So where the text says:
"the walls and the columns and the floor [of the temple]—they lined with orichalcum."
and
"the inscriptions written by the first kings on a pillar of orichalcum, which stood in the middle of the island in the sanctuary of Poseidon [Oceanus]."
This may not be studs of copper and a pillar of solid copper but rather just a mosaic of these shiny red rocks and some big column of breccia.
Therefore these walls, and consequentially, the orichalcum of the temple are good examples of where the account from Plato has clearly exaggerated natural features into the impression of grander, highly advanced works. This begs the question of whether the entire myth is simply a exaggeration of what could have been a settlement no different in technology that any other neolithic settlement of the time, with mud huts, flint tools and no real metallurgy.
This appears to make sense at first glance but there's still the issue that sailing is incredibly central to the account. They're said to have sailed to the Mediterranean and people are even said to have sailed to America.
I don't see how it would have been possible to make boats that could stay at sea for weeks, with sleeping areas and storage, and to be able to cope with large waves, without being made out of planks of wood, and you can't create planks of wood without metal saws.
Perhaps it's possible that, although they never perfected or industrialised the process, they were able to smelt some copper or iron into primitive saws and ended up as basically neolithic people but with large sea-faring vessels.
I'd previously assumed the scaled fish/serpentine features of the Apkallu was an allusion to plate metal but actually perhaps they really were simply wearing the skins of large fish, orcas. There is already shown to be a connection between orcas and Atlanteans in the account from Claudius Aelianus. https://archive.org/details/L449AelianCharacteristicsOfAnimalsIII1217/page/n108/mode/1up
The history from Sanchuniathon appears to be the most in-depth and precise of any historian and he describes the people who first make boats coming some generations after the Titans or Aletae, called the Dioscuri: https://topostext.org/work/230#1.9.17
"They are also called Aletae and Titans. From these were born Amynos and Magus, who established villages and sheepfolds. From them came Misor and Suduc, that is to say “Straight” and “Just”: these discovered the use of salt.
'From Misor was born Taautus, who invented the first written alphabet; the Egyptians called him Thoyth, the Alexandrians Thoth, and the Greeks Hermes.
'From Suduc came the Dioscuri, or Cabeiri, or Corybantes, or Samothraces: these, he says, first invented a ship. From them have sprung others, who discovered herbs, and the healing of venomous bites, and charms."
So according to Sanchuniathon it was the Dioscuri who first invented ships. It's possible all these distinct generations of people may have been lumped together under Atlanteans in Plato's account.
The note he makes about discovering the use of salt is also important for ship travel as it's a means of preserving food on long voyages.
The Dioscuri are famous in other myth for being twins. They are thought to be akin to Ashvins of Indian Vedic mythology and Castor and Pollux of Greek mythology. If the Dioscuri were the true, sea-faring Atlanteans this would also help explain the dominance of twin sculptures from the Vinca Culture. As the Vinca Culture emerges shortly after Anatolian Neolithic Farmers colonise Greece.
Vinca Culture twins wearing masks 5400BC - 4500BC
To conclude, I think these people could have been substantially more advanced than other neolithic peoples in the sense they smelt simple saws and then created boats aided by the fact they were in a landscape that made farming substantially simpler than most places. But they possibly didn't perfect metallurgy and were likely still wearing animal skins and largely using flint tools.
I believe this animal skin, flint tool people made it to America, because it still doesn't make sense to me that the account could have described this continent of America without someone visiting.
In a previous post I was observing the similarities between the Babylonian story of Marduk (the Enūma Eliš) and the account of Atlantis. (The same account is in Norse mythology as Odin vs Ymir).
I assumed that the Enūma Eliš came from previous Sumerian myths but didn't look this up at the time, it turns out it does and that the older Sumerian myths are also preserved. Enūma Eliš is a combination of two seperately written Sumerian stories; the stories of Ninurta vs Anzû and Ninurta vs Asag, I haven't actually gone through the source texts but they're available here:
https://www.ebl.lmu.de/corpus/L/1/10
https://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section1/tr162.htm
Ninurta vs Anzû reflects the account of Enki vs Apsu which is the prequel to the later conflict of Marduk vs Tiamat which reflects the story of Ninurta vs Asag. Asag here is a mountain god rather than a saltwater god. I think it's possible that the later Babylonian myth may have preserved various details that we may have lost from what remains of the Sumerian versions.
To recap, Marduk is needed to fight Tiamat as Enki is unable to defeat Tiamat. I liken the resolute Tiamat to the proto-Athenians in Plato's account. Greece, along with Anatolia are mountainous regions so both mountain and saltwater attributes would fit to this territory.
Isaiah 64
So, I was in church earlier today and they were reading Isaiah 64. It's a cryptic passage http://qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/isaiah/63.html which covers:
People in this sub might see the reference to "mountains flowing down" as a similar event that is described to have taken place in the region of Athens in Critias.
Critias 111a-c https://aedra.co.uk/atlantis/critias/ :
Since many great floods have occurred during the nine thousand years—for that is the number of years which have passed from that time to the present—the soil which has washed down from the high places during these ages and disasters has not, as in other regions, accumulated into a mass worth mentioning; instead it has continually flowed around and disappeared into the depths.
What remains now, compared with what then existed, is like the skeleton of a body wasted by disease: all the rich and soft soil having been washed away, and only the thin framework of the land left behind.
But in those days the land was still intact. In those days the mountains had high hills of earth upon them, and the plains now called the “fields of Phelleus” possessed deep rich soil; and there was much forest in the mountains, of which even now there remain visible proofs.
Timaeus 25c-d
But at a later time, when extraordinary earthquakes and floods occurred, in a single day and night of grievous calamity, all your warrior force together sank into the earth..
The Elohim doing "terrible things" is very similar to the account of the terrible things that Marduk does to Tiamat.
Humans made out of clay is also similar to how the Enūma Eliš concludes, as Marduk forms humans out of the blood of the defeated Tiamat. Formed from blood rather than clay isn't a match but the idea of humans being created as a theme of the story would be another strange coincidence, especially as it serves by junction in the gabbled account we get from Isaiah.
We know that many of the biblical myths derive from Sumerian so this isn't a great surprise. But it's the same tale of Atlantis finally defeating the stubborn Greeks helped by a climatic event involving earthquakes and the washing away of top soil by the rain.
The Elohim then is a group term for the Anatolian Neolithic Farmers in general, these in include both Enki and Marduk and were 'the gods' or the Atlanteans.
Plato’s account tells us the first organised people of Athens emerged in ‘9000 year ago’ therefore assumed to be 9600BC and we see evidence for complex rituals practices in Anatolia and the Levant from exactly 9600BC. Plato’s account also tells us that the first organised people of Egypt emerged 1000 years later making this 8600BC and we see evidence for herding and pot making people first colonising the region around Egypt in exactly 8600BC as shown on image 4.
These displays are from the British Museum.
We can see that they were making pots, arrows and decorative beads and then a bit later on in 5200-4200BC they’re making sickles to harvest grains.
In the account we’re told that these proto-Egyptians are defended from arriving Atlanteans by the proto-Greeks, it’s not clear what exactly happened here. In a previous post on the Enūma Eliš I suggest Apsu is Egypt and Tiamat is Greece, and I still think this makes sense but if so Apsu needs to show signs of being colonised by a new group.
There is a sign of arriving people in Egypt in 6000-5500BC due to the changing style of flint carving as shown in image 6, but this is too late and thought to be from the Near East rather than Atlanteans from the west, not that this is certain.
It would make more sense if the first herding people arriving in 8600BC were the ‘Atlantean’ colonists, but this would mean that proto-Egyptians were simply these arriving people rather than the people prior, which would mean the account’s kind of confused.
These are the images anyway and my assumptions for movements in the last image.
This is a variation on the Anatolian Neolithic Farmer migration map; essentially the same core route but including an early route through North Africa. There’s been very limited archeology conducted in North Africa so we don’t have a good picture of when farmers first moved in. I’m assuming the migration across North Africa predated the migration into Europe.
I’ve overlaid labels for the locations I attribute to the different Greek Titans based off their attributes, pairings, relations and events they might partake it and I think this is likely accurate. Likewise I’ve shown the associated Atlantean King from the adjectives Plato names them in his account, I assume each king represents a Titan people group.
Other myth events are shown as well such as the slaying of Apsu by Enki and Ymir/Yam/Tiamat by Marduk/Baa/Odin.
The Titanomachy I’m less sure about, I don’t think is a remembrance of the Yamnaya arrival as the myth of Indra vs Vitra is present in India so needs to predate the formation of the Yamnaya Steppe people. I’ve assumed it’s was a return of the Aesir into Greece in 5000BC currently.
The Aesir I place in the Bulkans as the Vinca Culture in 5500BC. The rival Vanir could then be the Varna Culture. There is a city called Bor in Serbia and the Aesir are said to have been born from Borr. There’s a city called Varna in Bulgaria which is close to Vanir.
The Norse gods, especially the Æsir, share commonalities with other Indo-European mythologies and therefore stem from a common origin.
It's been proposed that this common mythology was spread by the Yamnaya steppe herders in 2500BC but the origin may instead date back further to the spread of Anatolian Neolithic Farmers (ANF). ANF spread from the Tas Tepeler sites Northern Levant in 10,000BC and enter Europe in 6500BC, there would have been low level cultural exchange through the Fertile Crescent to India during this period as well.
The slaying of Ymir by Odin has very similar parallels to the slaying of Tiamat by Marduk, and Uranus by Kronos. The slaying of Tiamat by Marduk is written with additional detail to the tale of Ymir vs Odin, the text is available here https://ia800806.us.archive.org/3/items/Holy-Books/EnumaElish.pdf
These stories could relate to the real colonisation event of Southern Europe by the ANF in 6500BC.
After this, ANF settle in the Balkans region for a long period. Meanwhile in Western Europe from 5500 - 4800BC the native Western Hunter-Gatherers (WHG) reclaim most of their territory and there's a great amount violence going on. In the Balkans however people groups appeared to be much more steady which could have allowed the settler's previous origin stories to have remained in circulation, been added to and crystalised into the Norse mythology.
This region happens to align to the site of the Vinca Culture from 5300 - 4500BC the most advanced European culture of it's time. which, therefore, could have been the original Asgard.
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Geography and People
The reason for aligning the world to this location during this period is because the geography and people groups align very well.
The most clearly defined piece of geographic information is that Hvergelmir is said to be the source of many rivers and also said to be in Niflheim. There is only one region of Europe that could be the source of many rivers and that's South-East Germany/Czechia. If this area is Niflheim then all the other regions must slot around it.
The Carpathian Mountains run down the east of this Vinca culture's region but there are also the Alpes to the West, all this land was less easy to farm therefore perhaps both regions were occupied by Western Hunter-Gatherer (WHG), which could be the giants of the Jotunheims given that they were a foot larger than the ANF due to their better diets.
Eastern Hunter-Gatherers (EHG) apparently had much lighter features, such as paler skin and lighter hair, than the WGHs which would align them to the Light Elves to the North West.
There was a massive marsh as the mouth of the Danube which would align to the placement of the Hall in the Fens, Fensalir.
The Dark Elves' realm of Svartalfheim could have been to the South where ANF admixture was higher, possibly giving people a darker complexion.
The flaming sword of Muspelheim is reminiscent of the flaming sword guarding the Garden of Eden after it was occupied by the Elohim in Hebrew mythology and this could originate in Iraq. The four rivers of milk also align with the four rivers of Eden. We can't know for sure whether there's a link to this flaming sword and four rivers but given that there are commonalities between Norse and Hindu religions it's certainly possible. Therefore, it's possible that this region could be a distant memory from an earlier root to Hebrew mythology. In my opinion the occupation of Eden really did happen in around 7000BC as a as an arriving colony of the Greek Titans, the Apkallu, but that's a separate rabbit-hole and discussion.
Vanaheim, exchanges Vanir people with the Æsir to hold a truce, this would seem to require a significant land boarder hence the choice of placement to the south.
Svartalfheim as the Dark Elves also has a good claim to Greece given the story of Odin vs Ymir.
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Why the origin is often associated with Scandinavia
Of course the mythology is Norse and mostly is found in Scandinavia but we know that many of the gods share origins with gods as far away as Hindu mythology so these gods and myths couldn't have originated in Scandinavia.
There's also a story that describes a finished king. Ymir is likened to Gýmir who is said to be a Finnish king in the Flateyjarbók. However it's speculated that the Flateyjarbók may be a later attempt to organise the older genealogy.
Skadi is associated with skiing but it appears she is a mountain goddess primarily, this attribute could again be later addition added when these people reached Scandinavia and wanted to reflect their environment through their mythology.
As the ANF became the Early European Farmers and kept moving north these original places and peoples would have stopped aligning and become distant stories. Midgard could have also been added later as an explanation of the human and divine worlds.
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I've included a family tree of the Norse gods for comparison.
In doing this exercise it makes a lot of sense to conclude that the Norse mythology developed in the Vinca Culture in the Balkans in 5000 BC.
I've been led me into researching the various Norse gods and locations and I've updated a family tree and map. I place the world locations in South-East Europe and this aligns well with the past cultures of Europe in this region as it was home to the Vinca Culture from 5300 to 4500 BC, the most advanced European culture of it's time. This region dodged the violence that was going on in Western Europe during this same period.
The most clearly defined piece of geographic information is that Hvergelmir is said to be the source of many rivers and also said to be in Niflheim. There is only, really, one region of Europe that could be the source of many rivers and that's South-East Germany/Czechia. If this area is Niflheim then all the other regions must be pulled down and slot around it.
The Carpathian Mountains run down the east of this Vinca culture's region but there are also the Alpes to the West, all this land was less easy to farm therefore perhaps both regions were occupied by Western Hunter-Gatherer (WHG), which would be the giants of the Jotunheims.
Eastern Hunter-Gatherers (EHG) apparently had much lighter features, such as paler skin and lighter hair, than the WGHs which would align them to the Light Elves to the North West.
There was a massive marsh as the mouth of the Danube which would align to the placement of Fensalir.
The Dark Elves would need to then be to the South where ANF admixture was higher.
The flaming sword of Muspelheim is reminiscent of the flaming sword guarding the Garden of Eden after it was occupied by the Elohim in Hebrew mythology and I place this in Iraq. We can't know for sure whether there's a link with the flaming swords here but given that there are commonalities between Norse and Hindu religions, there could be. The four rivers of milk also align with the four rivers of Eden. It's possible that this region was a distant memory from the earlier root religion Norse developed from. I imagine this occupation of Eden really did happen over a millennia earlier as a colony of the Titans/Atlanteans, I have other posts connected to this and a blog on the subject if you're interested aedra.co.uk/atlantis.
Vanaheim, I'm not convinced with the current placement in Italy as given the Æsir need to exchange people with the Vanir to hold a truce, this doesn't seem so necessary unless they share a significant land boarder. Svartalfheim as the Dark Elves has a good claim to Greece given the story of Odin vs Ymir but I could swap these two regions.
To address the fact that this territory isn't in Scandinavia where we find the Norse mythology I see this as explained by the mythology spreading into Northern Europe with later ANF migration. We also know that this mythology was present in Britain prior to Anglo-Saxon invasion given the named of Woden and Thunor were present in Britain before they arrived, so it suggests the religion of both places shared a common origin.
The commonality of Norse gods to Greek and Hindu mythologies also suggests Norse mythology emerged from a shared origin and I imagine these all stem back eventually to the Tas Tepeler peoples and the first emergence of farming. If over time Norse evolved into it's own separate religion in the Balkans, I imagine the worlds and locations of Norse myology, including some of the stories, that related to this region could have been added later on over the millennia.
Aegir is likened to Gýmir who is said to be a Finnish king in the Flateyjarbók. However it's speculated that the Flateyjarbók may be a later attempt to organise the older genealogy. As the ANF became the Early European Farmers and kept moving north if they carried this mythology with them these original places and peoples would have stopped aligning with the surrounding geography and peoples and would have become mythologised. Therefore Midgard could also have perhaps been added later as an explanation of the human and divine worlds.
The myths we receive from Sumer/Babylon, like the Greek myths of the Titans, tell the same story we receive from Egypt via Plato but from the a different perspective, the perspective of the Atlanteans.
I think this could be explained if both Sumer and Greece were colonised by Atlanteans.
Sumerian mythology has been pieced together from a collection of discovered tablet texts, but most relevant here is a story that survived on multiple Babylonian texts, the story of Enūma Eliš, a vivid account of a past war that. You can read it in full here:
https://ia800806.us.archive.org/3/items/Holy-Books/EnumaElish.pdf
This is the Sumerian mythology (the Atlantean perspective):
The first gods are Tiamat, the saltwater and Apsu, the freshwater. Comingling their waters they give birth to Anu (a founding sky god equivalent to Ouranos in Greek myth). From Anu are born the Anunnaki, the first people and source of many later gods. One of the Anunnaki is Enlil, a god of the wind.
In Phoenician myth Ousous is the founder of the two pillars of the Tas Tepeler sites. These pillars were consecrated to fire and wind and we see a statue of a personified figure of the blowing wind in the earliest site, Karahantepe. Therefore, I think Enlil, as a god of the wind, may be a representation of Ousous or of the people who came from these Tas Tepeler sites.
Apsu is disturbed by the noise of these new gods and goes to consult Tiamat regarding what is to be done about them.
Apsu appears to possibly be a representation of the early Egyptians that the priest in Sais tells us formed in 8600 BC. They would be remembered as the fresh-water people, Apsu, because the Nile is the longest river in the world and contains a massive fertile zone where it meets the sea.
Conversely, Tiamat (described as "she who bore them all") could be a representation of the Early Greeks that we're told by Plato emerge in 9600 BC. They would be remembered as the salt-water people because Greece is a network of islands in the sea. They are also a genetically distinct group as Western Hunter-Gatherers (WHG).
The fact that Apsu and Tiamat are consulting each other in this story is consistent with the account from Plato as the Egyptian priest gives the impression that these proto-Egyptians and proto-Greeks were united in their defiance against the arriving Atlanteans, which would surely require consultation.
Apsu [Egypt] tells Tiamat [Greece] she intends to destroy the new gods.
However, by this time a new Anunnaki god has been born, Enki (also called Ea). Enki is called the god of the Earth and wisdom. Enki seeing through Apsu's plot, ambushes him in his sleep and defeats Apsu. Enki then goes to live in Apsu, becoming a god of the water.
This is how this sequence is described in the Enūma Eliš (Mummu is an additional unknown character):
Ea [Enki], the all-wise, saw through their design. Made artful his spell against it, surpassing and holy. He recited it and made it subsist in the deep, As he poured sleep upon him. Sound asleep he lay. When he had made Apsu lie prone, deep in sleep, Mummu, the advisor, was powerless to stir. He loosened Apsu’s band, tore off his tiara, Removed his halo and put it on himself. Having constrained Apsu, he slew him. Mummu he bound and locked.
[later passage]
Now Tiamat renewed the conflict and created an army of monsters. This time even the great Ea could not withstand the attack and the gods decided to ask the young Marduk to defend them against Tiamat.
Enki could represent the migration of early farming people from the Tas Tepeler sites in the Levant down into Egypt, conquering it, and then later moving across other river systems along North Africa to eventually found Atlantis in Mauritania.
In Greek myth this would be the story of the Titan colonies forming in North Africa after Oceanus and Hyperion, colonies such as Theia, Tethys and Iapetus and later Atlas.
However, this story does diverge from Plato's, given that in Plato's account the Greeks defend Egypt and all of the Mediterranean from this advancing force.
[Timaeus 25c]"[the Greeks]..prevented those not yet enslaved from being enslaved, and generously freed all the rest of us who dwell within the bounds of Heracles"
But in this Sumerian account Enki kills Apsu and moves into her land, and although Tiamat [the Greeks] becomes an impossible to defeat force for Enki, Tiamat hasn't saved Absu [Egypt].
I'm honestly not sure how to make sense of this particular discrepancy, it's possible some of the Egyptians may have fled further up the Nile and been saved in this way, and maybe this is where their account derives from but I don't know, nonetheless, moving on with the story.
Marduk is now introduced. Marduk is born from Enki and inherits Enki's wisdom. Marduk is a similar figure to Knonos. In Greek myth Kronos gets the help of three other Titans to surround Ouranos to castrate him. In this story Marduk similarly surrounds Tiamat with four winds to form a net. Marduk then uses his ability to conjuring wind to blow storms into Tiamat’s open mouth, subduing her and allowing him to defeat her with a single arrow.
This is how this battle sequence is described in the Enūma Eliš:
Against the gods, my fathers, you have confirmed your wickedness. Though you have drawn up your forces, readied your weapons. Stand alone, that I and you may meet in single combat!” When Tiamat heard this, She was like one possessed; she took leave of her senses. In fury Tiamat cried out aloud. To the roots of her legs shook both together. She recites a charm, keeps casting her spell, While the gods of battle sharpen their weapons. Tiamat and Marduk, wisest of gods then joined battle, They strove in single combat, locked in conflict. The lord spread out his net to enfold her, He let loose in her face The Evil Wind, which followed behind. When Tiamat opened her mouth to consume him, He drove in the Evil Wind and she could not dose her lips. As the fierce winds encumbered her belly, Her body was distended and her mouth was wide open. He released an arrow, it tore her belly, It cut through her insides, splitting her heart. Having subdued her, he blotted out her life. He threw down her carcass and stood upon it. After he had slain Tiamat, the leader, Her band was shattered, her troupe broken up. And her helpers, the gods who marched at her side trembled with terror and turned their backs, in order to save and preserve their lives. Encirded tightly, they could not escape. He made them captives and he smashed their weapons. They found themselves ensnared in the net; Thrown into cells, they were filled with wailing. Bearing his wrath, they were held imprisoned. And the eleven creatures which she had charged with awe, the band of demons that marched before her, He cast into fetters, their hands [. . .]. For all their resistance, he trampled them underfoot. And Kingu, who had been made chief among them, He bound and accounted him to Uggae.
This great Evil Wind that helps Markuk destroy Tiamat is plausibly the same deluge rain event that Plato describes having caused all the Athenian warriors to sink into the earth and the land of Greece to be destroyed. This event could be the 8.2ka Event, a sudden spike in storms and rain caused by the release of a lake in norther America into the sea in 6200 BC.
Of course it also destroys the city of Atlantis, which by this time had become corrupt, but that's happening thousands of kilometres away from the armies of Marduk (Kronos) and the other Titans.
The passage then continues:
The lord [Marduk] trampled on the legs of Tiamat. With his unsparing mace he crushed her skull. When the arteries of her blood he had severed, the North Wind bore it to places undisclosed. On seeing this, his fathers were joyful and jubilant, they brought gifts of homage to him. Then the lord paused to view her dead body, that he might divide the monster and do artful works. He split her like a shellfish into two parts: Half of her he sat up as the ceiling of the sky, He pulled down the bar and posted guards. He ordered them not to allow her waters to escape. He crossed the heavens and surveyed the regions.
Marduk represents the Antolian Neolithic Farmers (ANF) finally taking the territory of the Western Hunter-Gatherers (WHG) in Greece. These ANF people now make up the largest proportion of the genetics of Southern Europeans, and even most Northern Europeans, WHG only contribute 10-20%. Interestingly, the same narrative of the spilling of the blood of Tiamat is described in the account of Kronos vs Ouranos where blood of Ouranos gives birth to the Gigantes, Aphrodite and other creatures.
Marduk also now designates his new territories into Earth and Heaven and after this passage he's described as surveying his new territory, assigning regions to gods, naming the heavens, assigning constellations to months of the year and putting in place defensive armies.
The last passage then describes a character called Kingu, who appears to be a commander figure of the Tiamat Greeks who had for a long time held back the arriving Titans/Atlanteans but has now been overcome by the attack of Kronos and is captured. Kingu is tortured and killed and his people are enslaved so that the Gods (Atlanteans and Titans) no longer need to work.
“It was Kingu who contrived the uprising, and caused Tiamat to rebel, and join battle”. They bound him, holding him before Ea. They imposed on him his guilt and severed his blood vessels. Out of his blood they fashioned humankind. He [Marduk] imposed upon it [humankind] the service and let free the gods. After Ea, the wise, had created humankind, Had imposed upon it the service of the gods— That toil was beyond human comprehension; As artfully planned by Marduk, did Nudimmud create it- Marduk, the king of the gods divided all the Anunnaki above and below. He assigned them to Anu to guard his instructions. Three hundred in the heavens he stationed as a guard.
End of the account
There are a couple of parallels between this last passage and other mythology. It might relate to the story of Prometheus (called Zahhak in Iranian myth) who defies the gods steals fire, causes a revolt (in the story of Zahhak) and is punished ever after for his crimes, but then agiant this might represent a later rebellion.
Gods creating humans to act as their workers is also similar to other myths. Most clearly in other Sumerian myths which describe the lesser gods, the Igigi, being enslaved by the Anunnaki before they eventually rebel.
The bible also describes gods (Elohim) turning up, creating humans and tasking them to “to till and keep the garden”.
I've also now changed my interpretation of the biblical line "When mankind began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God (bene elohim) saw that the daughters of men were fair; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose."
I thought before the sons of Elohim (also called the Watchers) could be the hunter-gather peoples, but if the Elohim are the Titans / Atlanteans the it is them who are taking wives from mankind who are their enslaved workers.
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What's strange is how Marduk/Kronos is so clearly intend on defeating and enslaving these people but at the same time the Apkallu, who are also born from Enki, are the exact opposite and are remembered as peaceful figures who arrive to help early civilisations. In America, China, Africa and Australia the arriving cultural heroes are always remembered well, as people who help foster their populations. Perhaps this change is the result of a cultural change in the Atlantean kingdoms at a later time.
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To conclude
The Enūma Eliš, Greek Titan stories, and Plato’s account may be different perspectives on the same underlying war.
In Plato’s Egyptian account, the Greeks are portrayed as the noblest of men, valiant and defiant, who are able to defend the Mediterranean from the advance of the Atlanteans. In constrast, in the Sumerian account Tiamat is described as monstrous, rebellious and wrathful, and although she holds back Enki for a time, she is eventually subdued by the might and superiority of Marduk.
In the same vein, Greek myth describes Kronos and three other Titans overthrowing the old rule of Ouranos and initiating a new Golden Age.
There are similarities between the history of Sanchuniathon and the account we receive from Plato. Both talk of two pre-Atlantean classes of people, Earth-born people and craftsman, and both claim they are born from Hephaestus.
Sanchuniathon in Eusebius' The Preparation of the Gospels: https://topostext.org/work/230#1.9.17
[In the account up to this extract there has been mention of: primal gods → Ousous (pillars) → Agreus and Halieusthere (hunting and fishing) → Hephaestus and Zeus Meilichios (not that Zeus)]
"Afterwards there sprang from their [Hephaestus and Zeus Meilichios'] race two youths, one of whom was called Technites (Craftsmen), and the other Geinos Autochthon (Earth-sprung people). These devised the mixing of straw with the clay of bricks, and drying them in the sun, and moreover invented roofs.
From them others were born, one of whom was called Agros, and the other Agrueros or Agrotes; and of the latter there is in Phoenicia a much venerated statue, and a shrine drawn by yokes of oxen; and among the people of Byblos he is named pre-eminently the greatest of the gods.
These two devised the addition to houses of courts, and enclosures, and caves. From them came husbandmen (farmers) and huntsmen. They are also called Aletae and Titans.
From these were born Amynos and Magus, who established villages and sheepfolds. From them came Misor and Suduc, that is to say “Straight” and “Just”: these discovered the use of salt (used for preserving food, bathing and healing wounds)"
[Timaeus 23d-25c] https://aedra.co.uk/atlantis/timaeus/
[The Egyptian preist is speaking to Solon at Sais.]
"..of your city [Athens] I will speak..and this one [Egypt]—yours first; a thousand years earlier [than the founding of Egypt], having received your [Greeks] seed from Earth and Hephaestus, and this one [Egypt] later. And of the ordering here among us, the number of years written in the sacred records is eight thousand. Concerning the citizens of nine thousand years ago, I will briefly set forth their laws and the noblest deed accomplished by them; but the exact account of everything we shall go through later in due order, taking up the written records themselves at our leisure. Now consider their laws in comparison with those here; for you will find many examples among us now of what existed among you then: first, the class of priests set apart separately from the others, and after that the class of craftsmen, each working on its own without mixing with others, and the class of herdsmen and that of hunters, and of the farmers."
[later passage]
"..the records tell how great a power your city once halted when it advanced in insolence against all Europe and Asia at once, having set out from outside from the Atlantic pelagos."
"..in this island of Atlantis there arose a great and marvellous power of kings, ruling over the whole island and many other islands and parts of the continent; and besides these they also ruled over the lands within here. ..All this power, gathered together into one, once attempted with a single assault to enslave your land and ours and all the region within the strait."
[later passage]
"But at a later time, when extraordinary earthquakes and floods occurred, in a single day and night of grievous calamity, all your warrior force together sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis likewise sank into the thalassa."
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In Sanchuniathon, after Ousous (of the Tas Tepeler culture (9600 BC)) come the Technites (craftsman) and Autochthon (Earth-sprung people) who are born from the generation of Hephaestus. With the Aletae (or Titans) then coming after this.
In Plato's account, in 9600 BC, the Greeks were born from Earth and Hephaestus forming craftsman, farmers and herdsman. With the Atlanteans then showing up after this.
Both claim farming people and craftsmen were born from the Earth and Hephaestus in 9600 BC, and both claim the Aletae or Atlanteans then arrive after.
Plato's account also claims that in 8600 BC the Egyptians were born. The account states that the Greeks halt the advancement of the Atlantean Kings, defending both their own people and these Egyptians.
If the Egyptians existed from 8600 BC and are saved from advancing Atlanteans by the Greeks, then this conflict must have taken place after the Egyptians existed in 8600 BC, at the earliest.
The rain sinking Atlantis and washing away land in Greece is said to have happened "at a later time" than this conflict, so at a later time again. If we roughly assume 500 years constitutes a later time, this places the date of the sinking to approximately 8100 BC, at the absolute earliest.
Instead the timespans could be longer than these bare minimums. We see the first indication of Anatolian Neolithic Farmers (ANF) settling in Greece in 7000 BC, indicating, potentially, the time at which the Atlanteans finally won this territory and the native Greece people were finally pushed out. Therefore, the conflict that they win must have happened between 8600 and 7000 BC.
The ANF finally claiming Greece could be the conflict remembered in other Greek myths as Kronos, Crius, Coeus and Iapetus vs Ouranos. Kronos, Crius, Coeus and Iapetus being Titan Atlanteans and Ouranos as the native Greeks.
The deluge rain event could then have occurred another millennia later in what is called the 8.2ka Event, in 6200 BC.
Kronos, Crius, Coeus and Iapetus vs Ouranos may also be remembered in the Sumerian myth of Marduk vs Abzu; the king (Markduk) vs the fresh water people (Abzu). In this story, after defeating Abzu Marduk later fights Tiamat (the salt water people) and uses storms to defeat them, then dividing the world into Earth and Heaven.
The 8.2ka Event washed away the Greeks allowing Kronos to fully move into the territory of Greece and finally rule both North Africa (Heaven) and the Mediterranean (Earth) up to the boarder of Northern Europe (the Underworld).
The Egyptian people of the Levant and Egypt maintain a separate identity and much later on side with the arriving Zeus people (along with Titaness Rhea of Anatolia) against the rest of the Titans in the Titanomachy, with these Egyptian-Levantine people remembers as the Cyclopes.
Background:
The Tas Tepeler sites, including most famously Gobeklitepe. The sites are located in south Turkey and consist of stone pillars (or stele). The pillars are caved with stone carvings, some of animals, some of symbols, some to make the pillars look like penises and some to make the pillars look like standing people.
Gobeklitepe is most notable as it was the first to be discovered and is one of the oldest of these sites although the smaller Karahantepe has actually now been shown to be the earliest.
The sites were first discovered in 1994 by the German Archaeologist Klaus Schmidt. Klaus Schmidt died in 2014 by which time approximately 5-10% of Gobeklitepe and the Tas Tepeler had been excavated. Up to this point visitors were free to arrive and see the work.
The sites were then handed over to the Turkish Ministry of Culture and Tourism, and leadership of the excavation led by Lee Clare. The site was turned into a tourist attraction charging £10-15 entry fee and raising £5–7.5 million per year. Interest in excavation appears to have reduced and in the 22 years since no substantive excavation has occurred.
For all his errors in terms of the theoretical ideas he's put forward, Jimmy Corsetti has been very vocally against the massive reduction of excavation efforts at the Tas Tepeler sites and has also helped prevent tree damage to the sites.
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Historical mentions:
The Tas Tepeler sites are mentioned in both Egyptian and Phoenician historical texts.
These are the Egyptian mentions:
Utterance 600
[to Atum] “You have emerged from the waters of Nun; you have come into being upon the Benben [primeval mound].”
Coffin Texts
[Atum speaking] “I was in Nun, in a state of inertness, before I found a place to stand in Iunu [place of pillars].”
Atum is the first man, the hieroglyphics used for Iunu translate to 'place of pillars'. The Benben is said to be a primeval mound. The Tas Tepeler sites are the earliest proto-civilisation sites of pillars built on hills showing clear correlation to these passages.
The Phoenician mention comes from the Phoenician historian Sanchuniathon who was writing in 1300BC from compiled historical sources of the temples in the levant in this time. His work survives through copies made by Philo of Byblos and later Eusebius in his Preparation of the Gospels text.
In this work Sanchuniathon is quoted and describes a figure called Ousous, the first to invent the use of animal skin clothing and boats, and who was a good hunter. The account goes on to tell us that Ousous first created two pillars from wood dedicated to fire and wind and consecrated them, worshipped them and poured blood of wild beasts on them.
The full timeline we receive from Sanchunithon is:
Aeon and Protogonus (earliest people, fruit tree cultivation)
↓
Genos (offspring)
↓
Memrumus, Hypsuranius (past heroes, mountains named in their honour)
↓
Ousous (famous hunter, creates first boat and creates animal skin clothing. He consecrates two wooden pillars to fire and wind and sacrifices the blood of wild beasts to them)
↓
The tradition of pillars/stele created in honour of these first two pillars begins, with festivals held around them (Tas Tepeler sites (assumption))
[Proceeding passages] [time interval]
Agreus and Halieus (innovate hunting and fishing)
↓
Hephaestus (innovates metalwork)
↓
Autochthon and Technites (people split into indigenous and technical people)
↓
Titans/Aletae (Titans/Atlanteans (assumption), these are described as husbandmen and huntsmen)
↓
Thoth/Hermes
↓
King Uranus
↓
Knonos, Zeus, etc
Full passage relating to the timeline up to Tas Tepeler sites is below and available at https://topostext.org/work/230#1.9.17:
The account then say, [at later time] "those who were left.. ..constructed 'στήλας' ('stele' - standing stones/pillars/monuments) and year by year worshipped their pillars and kept festivals in their honour."
..Aeon and Protogonus, mortal men, so called: and that Aeon discovered the food obtained from trees. That their offspring were called Genos and Genea, and inhabited Phoenicia: and that when droughts occurred, they stretched out their hands to heaven towards the sun; for him alone (he says) they regarded as god the lord of heaven, calling him Beelsamen, which is in the Phoenician language “lord of heaven,” and in Greek “Zeus.”'
§ 1.10.6 And after this he charges the Greeks with error, saying: 'For it is not without cause that we have explained these things in many ways, but in view of the later misinterpretations of the names in the history, which the Greeks in ignorance took in a wrong sense, being deceived by the ambiguity of the translation.'
§ 1.10.7 Afterwards he says: 'From Genos, son of Aeon and Protogonus, were begotten again mortal children, whose names are Light, and Fire, and Flame. These, says he, discovered fire from rubbing pieces of wood together, and taught the use of it. And they begat sons of surpassing size and stature, whose names were applied to the mountains which they occupied: so that from them were named mount Casius, and Libanus, and Antilibanus, and Brathy. From these, he says, were begotten Memrumus and Hypsuranius; and they got their names, he says, from their mothers, as the women in those days had free intercourse with any whom they met.'
§ 1.10.8 Then he says: 'Hypsuranius inhabited Tyre, and contrived huts out of reeds and rushes and papyrus: and he quarrelled with his brother Ousous, who first invented a covering for the body from skins of wild beasts which he was strong enough to capture. And when furious rains and winds occurred, the trees in Tyre were rubbed against each other and caught fire, and burnt down the wood that was there. And Ousous took a tree, and, having stripped off the branches, was the first who ventured to embark on the sea; and be consecrated two pillars to fire and wind, and worshipped them, and poured libations of blood upon them from the wild beasts which he took in hunting. 'But when Hypsuranius and Ousous were dead, those who were left, he says, consecrated staves to them, and year by year worshipped their pillars and kept festivals in their honour.
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Explanation
Sanchuniathan is explicit that he is describing the land of Phoenicia (an area within close the proximity of Anatolia), and is describing the emergence of the first farming peoples up to the gods (who he equated with past kings). The description of these στήλας 'stele' would appear align with what we know of the Taş Tepeler pillars.
The dedication of the original two wooden pillars to wind and fire is an interesting detail. This raises the possibility that the blowing figure shown on the north wall of karahantepe may represent the wind.
Here he is:
The detail of the blood of wild beasts being ceremonially poured onto at least the first pillars could also help explain the three animals and semicircles at the of on Pillar 43. These have been suggests to represent each solstice and the equinoxes and may show which animals to sacrifice at these times.
Klaus Schmidt, the original archaeologist of the Tas Teleper sites, before his passing had speculated that the iconography may link to later Egyptian iconography although the topic remained somewhat verboten as Egypt don't like the idea of their culture deriving from another culture. The Turkish Ministry of Culture and Tourism and Lee Care now deny such equivalences. However, similarities are shown below and you are free to make your own assumption.
Additionally, a frieze on the wall of Gobeklitepe has been likened to a Mesopotamian 'master of animals' motif.
The official line is that because is is impossible for mythic information to be transmuted over 7000 years the account from Sanchunithon is made-up and the Egyptian Mythology regarding predynastic figures is also made-up, there is no connection between Egyptian, Greek or Mesopotamian cultures. Any similarities in depictions are coincidences.
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Conclusion
The pillars to the hunter Ousous mentioned by Sanchuniton and Atum's Lunu (the place of pillars) mentioned in Egyptian myth both appear to point to the Tas Teleper sites. We can't say for certain these are links, but they appear to be. The figure in karahantepe appears to be the wind. There also appear to be iconography connects from Gobekliepe in later Egyptian and Sumerian art.
This links to Atlantis insomuch as Sunchunithan includes the Aletae and discussions of Atlas later in his timeline.