u/lukasehrlich

I've been reading about Japanese counters (助数詞) and noticed that some items commonly listed as counters seem quite different from others.

For example:

本 in 二本のペン

枚 in 三枚の紙

seem to function as "true" classifiers that categorize a noun.

However, examples like:

五文字 ("five characters")

七海 ("seven seas")

feel different to me because 文字 and 海 are ordinary nouns with lexical meaning ("character" and "sea"), and the numeral appears to modify the noun directly.

Is there a recognized grammatical distinction in Japanese linguistics between items like 本・枚 and items like 文字・海?

Are 文字 and 海 still considered 助数詞, or are they analyzed as a different category (e.g., measure nouns, unit nouns, counter nouns, etc.)?

I'd be especially interested in:

The terminology used by Japanese linguists.

Whether native grammars treat these as the same phenomenon.

Any tests or diagnostics that distinguish true classifiers from countable nouns used after numerals.

Does anyone know why we have the issue and whether it is being addressed?

Hey guys, I am a bilingual English and German speaker from Austria. In Japanese I am like about N5-N4, in Greek A2-B1 :)