The new Marvel v. DC (Market Share)

Being an old-head now, coming up on 50 years of collecting, I like to think I have the advantage of being able to look through the lens of time, and look at the history and get a decent view of what's happening.  One of the bits I think I’ve puzzled out has to do with my lifelong hobby of comic book collecting.

So, I’ve noted on the Marvel sub, some “panic” about Marvel having fallen behind DC in market share. It’s the first sustained time that Marvel has fallen to DC since the 1970s, and they held a steady #1 (with some exceptions) for over 40 years.

I have a hypothesis as to why.

In the late 70s, we almost lost both Marvel and DC.  Marvel was saved by Star Wars, and DC by the Donner Superman movie.  Once both steadied their ships, DC kept on as business as usual, while Marvel, under Jim Shooter, became obsessed with continuity and canon.  DC was seen as “silly” due to the “imaginary stories” of earlier eras, while Marvel prided itself on being the “world outside your window” (if you lived in NYC at least).  Shooter pushed Marvel editorial to have a tight control on what got published, and to never contradict itself.  This resonated with fans in the early 80s, and arguably created the modern “canon orthodoxy disease” you see in many fandoms nowadays.

DC kept on their merry way, until they began losing consistently to Marvel, so on their 50th anniversary, released Crisis on Infinite Earths to clean up their continuity and clean up their “canon” issues.  However, while Crisis did a good job of that, the Byrne reboot of Superman and other things like “the Last Days of the JSA” immediately muddied the waters again.  Despite getting big artistic talent on their titles (John Byrne, George Pérez, Alan Davis, Frank Miller, and up and comers like Adam Hughes, Bart Sears, Kevin Maguire, and Todd McFarlane) they still lagged behind Marvel, mainly due to the (no pun intended) Juggernaut that was Chris Claremont’s X-Men.

By the time the Nineties rolled around, it left DC doing gimmicky grabs, trying to capitalize on Marvel’s loss of the Image Seven, doing things like “the Death of Superman, Knightfall, and Emerald Dawn”, but their best writing was in the margins with their adult themed Vertigo.  Marvel lived off the heat of the X-titles for over a decade after Claremont left, despite middling writing at best across all their best selling X-titles.  Even when Marvel nearly killed the comics industry again in the mid-90s with their bankruptcy, they still maintained market share from loyalists to the titles.

The first twenty years of the 21st c. saw Marvel maintain their lead, synergizing a little at first, with the success of the various Marvel movies, whether they were MCU or Fox.  DC finally got to where they should have been after Crisis with Infinite Crisis, and bringing in Jim Lee to the fold, but still they lagged behind in sales.

New52 gave DC a bump, and challenged Marvel, but it was short lived as the novelty of the reimagining and continuity change wore off in about a year, causing them to go back to the well of Watchmen and have Rebirth reset things again, and back more or less to pre-new52 continuity.

So, what’s changed in the last two years?  DC initially kept chasing that desire for continuity that they thought that fans wanted, and Marvel has kept with the status quo to the point that readers are desperate for something new. It appears the change is that DC pivoted to not caring as much about "canon".

The Absolute titles, while born out of “yet another” big crossover event, are showing the standard characters in a new light, and in a way that makes readers rethink the characters.  The Next Level and then All In titles have allowed writers to tell stories, and not be 100% beholden to previously established mainline continuity, or at least not have to be referential backwards to it.  In some cases, this has blown up in their faces (Power Girl), but in most, it’s taking characters that readers may not have otherwise cared about, and making thought provoking new takes on them--that while not beholden to canon or continuity, also doesn’t disregard it.  Deadman, the Demon, and Zatanna are all evocative of the best “DC corner of Vertigo” that was published in the 90s.  JLU is a fun romp of superheroes in mixed teams handling varying worldwide crises.  World’s Finest is telling great tales of Superman/Batman team ups (with Dick Grayson’s Robin) unfettered by time, happening “when it was most appropriate”, and giving us upscaled “Silver Aged” stories, but done in a modern telling. Even the post-modern take on the "Superman Family", last popular in the early 70s, is selling consistenly well.

Meanwhile, over at Marvel, Spider-man is stuck in a post-high school purgatory, a sort of superpowered parody of an older Charlie Brown, still pining over “the little red-headed girl” he can never have--and he’s been there for TWENTY YEARS now.  Titles get announced and abruptly cancelled (not planned) after six-eight issues, then restarted with a new number one.  Movie synergy is at an all time high as editorial attempts to court movie-goers to read comics, rather than to appeal to long time readers.  And in my own opinion (ymmv), they are so committed to canon, they aren’t allowing the writers to move past parameters that were set for the characters 30+ years ago. Arguably, the only 'big new successful things' that pushed any boundaries that Marvel has done in the last 25 years has been the Krakoa saga, the Ultimate line, and Annihilation which brought in the new GotG (that and an insidious anti-intellecualism feel, but that's another discussion).

All comics in the Big Two are stuck in the perpetual “middle”.  It’s beginning, middle, more middle, a brave new reimagining, middle, middle, middle, REBOOT, beginning 2.0, middle, middle…. Ad nauseum.  Marvel has doubled down on this, insisting that readers stay loyal to canon.  DC meanwhile is allowing writers to write “new” stories about the characters.  While it may not last, that ‘novelty’ of DC not caring about continuity as much, is now more appealing than slavish loyalty to canon.

Ironically, what seems to be hindering Marvel, is that their “canon” is blowing up in their face. A pun and irony that as someone who grew up mostly on Marvel, I find bitterly sad and funny.

reddit.com
u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 6 days ago
▲ 124 r/PowerGirl

Dead Universe/Timeline Support Group Meeting

"F*cking Atlantis? What kind of a retcon is that?!"

Art by Mick Beyers.  Warm-up prompt on his Patreon: “Kara Zor-L and Rachel Summers at a, ‘Support Group for Survivors of a Dead Universe or Timeline Meeting’.”

A little Monday levity, folks.

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 17 days ago
▲ 33 r/GNV

Cabot-Koppers Superfund cleanup moves forward as state reviews stormwater permit

Let us pray that when this is finally done, it's turned into a park or festival site *cough*MEDIEVALFAIRE&THEFEST*cough* rather than checks notes another series of "5 over 1's" that will never have businesses on the ground floor.

wuft.org
u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 24 days ago

Trelan's Science Fair Project (Like Chronitons Through the Hourglass)

Something that the curmudgeons seem to keep doing this season is getting hung up on the “gimmick”, and ignoring the story.

Poster u/randomusername15672 seems to have pieced it together too, and it just fits.  I’m posting my own post about it, but credit where credit’s due (and we don’t agree 100%, but thanks for the inspiration).

The Q Continuum when first introduced in tNG seemed to be capricious, cruel, and perhaps even vindictive. We learn later that that’s not really their motivation; it's a test. It’s all a test. It’s always a test.

Like Chronitons through the Hourglass is keeping to this.

Everyone on board is caught in the tropes of soap operas--except for Pike.  We bear witness to: the “evil twin”, “convenient insanity”, and the "paternity reveal”.

Alone, Captain Pike is not affected by the shenanigans. Pike, of course, wants no part of any of it. Trelane acts like he doesn’t understand why Pike isn’t affected, but every time Pike tries to steer away from the plot he's supposed to be in, he’s put back on the course.  “Got it.  The only way out is through”, and he decides to play along, and his trope is the Paternity Reveal.

Uhura presents the book of recipes as evidence of their lost father-daughter relationship, but when Pike looks at it--it’s blank. Frustrated, he continues to try and veer away from the plot as designed by Trelane. In this, we’re introduced to the ship’s counselor, Dr. Chivers, and it’s pointed out that Pike has been avoiding her for a while now, both in the 'real' word and in the soap opera.  Now, he can’t get away from her as part of the subplot constraints he’s in.

The next encounter with Uhura as he once again tries to end the simulation as expediently as possible, is he looks at the cookbook, and now notes that not only are there recipes, but one for Juliet, his could-have-been-daughter for her birthday.

Trelane, now with his proctor, seems surprised at this. Trelane (and presumably the proctor) can both break the fourth wall, but this seems to be a secret shared between the viewer and him alone (as seen with the commercial breaks, and his getting his grade later).

Pike breaks away from the story again. BUT, unlike the first time when he kept looping around and had to deal with Uhura and Chivers, he’s allowed to go “off-script” and he returns to his quarters to find Juliet, his “real” daughter there. “This is not part of the script”.  He’s able to talk to her, and while he’s still breaking the idea of ‘but she’s not real’, she doesn’t react to him that way. More like she’s just going about her day, and like in a dream, she leaves, even though when he entered, she’s making coq au vin.

Pike is forced to confront the issues he’s been running from all season. They were working non-stop, mostly because of him, which led to the shore leave episode. It’s been in the background all year that he’s not dealt with the loss of Batel, and the “what if..?” future they could have had.

Simultaneously, the “don’t pay attention to what the right hand is doing” soap opera plots resolve themselves.  Reality reasserts, Trelane gets a “solid B-” on his work.  That’s why Pike wasn’t mind-whammied into part of the plot.  He’s deliberately left out by Trelane, because THAT is the test as designed by Trelane.

The work wasn’t the soap opera, and “playing with his toys”.  The work was a microscopic version of “Q Who”, when Q forced the first encounter with the Borg.  Trelane’s work was putting Pike through his paces so that he’d finally face his trauma in the real world, and it worked.  This was a much more subtly written (but more fun and less dystopian) version of the “Tapestry” episode from tNG.

This episode handles the Q better than almost every other appearance. It returns them to their roots as a senior race putting humanity through their paces, in order to help us evolve and survive.

Sure, Trelane is just a child, but even as an “elementary school aged” Q, that still puts him millions of years ahead of any human. He didn’t mess anything up, he just didn’t get all the nuances down he needed, but he still got his “lab rat” Pike to the conclusion needed so that he would pass.

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 1 month ago
▲ 617 r/PowerGirl

Cosplayer Victoria Vazquez Ikerd-Schreiter Power Girl

A new (to me) Power Girl cosplayer, Victoria Vazquez Ikerd-Schreiter who debuted her PG cosplay last weekend at ICT Comic Con and Science Fiction Expo in Witchita, KS.

She cosplays other characters too, mainly variations on Wonder Woman.

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 1 month ago

Earth-2 Nostalgia

Part of a series of the JSA in their various sanctuaries done by Stepp & Garcia. Clean not-"modern" comic art, but with awesome captured important moments of the characters. These are the two done of the -L family of the JSA.

Not sure why, but the one with Earth-2 Superman and Lois looking down adoringly at the debut of Power Girl from the Daily Star got me in the feels. Like, through all their storied careers as journalists, and of all the trophies in that room, the front page story detailing Kara's debut as a superhero is the one they're most proud of, and kept on Clark's desk.

It's mirrored in the Power Girl sanctuary too, with the family portrait of the three of them, and the "proud father" picture as well.

Possibly a "pearls before swine" post, but I don't care :p

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 1 month ago
▲ 284 r/PowerGirl

Power Girl's Attributes, Part 2: Height

A weirdly controversial one, but hey, not as much to talk about with it.  A crazy brief post from me.

Reminder: if you like supertall PG, cool.  If not, also cool.  This ain’t a “judge folks for what they like” post.

So, how tall is Power Girl?

Two of her three Who’s Who entries (post and pre-Crisis) list her at 5’7” tall (170 cm). Unfortunately, I don’t have the loose leaf version that was printed in 1991, and there doesn’t appear to be a scan of it online, so if anyone else has that… lmk.

Her height was consistently portrayed as this from her inception until 2011 with Flashpoint and the New 52.  The only outlier seems to be Power Woman from Kingdom Come on Earth-22. She’s almost always a half-head shorter than most of the guys--and a little taller than most of the women.

If you look online and in official material from the new52 period, it lists her at 5’11” (180 cm).

However, Rebirth brought back the original PG, and the one from the new52 is… back on her version of Earth-2 as Supergirl?

Newer material since then puts her back at 5’7”, and not towering over any of her contemporaries, as demonstrated in her appearances since Rebirth (her own series, JL Red).

It’s more noticeable for a female or female presenting character to be as tall as the guys.  This is why Wonder Woman tends to stand out, which is another character whose height has varied as time has gone on (started at 5’8” [173 cm], then 5’11 [180 cm], now 6’2” [188 cm]).

In the above group shot (The Real Power of the DC Universe, 2009), Diana is “canonically” 5’11”, and Adam drew the others more or less based on her as the benchmark.   Here, Peej looks about 5’7”. She's still taller than everyone else, with Supergirl and Poison Ivy being the ones who are closest.

Honestly?  5’7 is tall for a woman.  In the US, the average height of women is a scodge over 5’3” (160cm), which also matches the worldwide average.

In the end, the height of the character is really only good for one thing, and that’s for artists’ references.  That’s it.  If you have a petite character (Terra) in the same shot as a tall one (Superman) you don’t want to show them looking eye-to-eye.

In the end, it's still kind of a nothing-burger, in that it's not like artists dial down on every image. It only stands out when the differences get egregious. But if you like WNBA superstar Power Girl, more power to ya!

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 2 months ago
▲ 282 r/PowerGirl

Power Girl's Attributes, Part 1: Muscles!

I'm extremely glad we have a decent, and not "descended into too much chaos" talk about Power Girl being "reduced to just her chest". I'd planned to post this today anyway, and I think it fits well with the theme.

I want to start this by saying, like what ya like! I’m not here to shame your internal versions of what you’d like for Power Girl to look like. Heaven knows I have my preferences.  But I do want to address “continuity v. fanfic" and strike up a conversation.

Being someone who monitors the commentary on the boards here, something I find fascinating is when folks make comments like: “Finally seeing an artist/cosplayer get close to the proportions she should have” regarding some art about Power Girl.

Mainly because, most of us (myself included) have internalized how we think Power Girl should be drawn, and much of it has been affected by fan art, or non-continuity art.

Let’s take a rather tame one into account:  Her musculature. I've included art both to catch folks' eyes, as well as to back-up what I'm saying here.

I often see folks that comment on liking PG being more obviously muscled, than say Supergirl.

Going through the art over the years, she wasn’t really muscled at all, until the JLE (1989).  There, she was depicted by Bart Sears as toned and defined, but not overtly muscled.  A lot of this was likely due to the more distinct art styles that were coming about, and the pre-Image revolution of art as precipitated by Art Adams that had begun.  Adam Hughes renders her much in the same way, with defined musculature, but athletic, not as a body-builder.

The first real body-builder version we ever see is the Earth-22 version, which is Power Woman, an aged-up version that Alex Ross deliberately modeled after a body builder at the time (unknown and unnamed, but I’d guess Corey Everson who was pretty popular, and a Ms. Olympia at the time).

In the mainstream books, her scant appearances in the late 90s returned her mostly to an athletic, but not muscled form (through the end of JLI, appearances in Sovereign 7, the one shot with Green Lantern), all the way leading up to her Renaissance in the stories leading up to Infinite Crisis.  While she has defined arms and legs, she’s not a “weightlifter” scale of musculature.

When we get to her return to Krypton origin, and the stories of Johns/Conner/Palmiotti/Gray, she’s more or less back to her pre-Crisis muscle tone.  There’s not a ton of definition, and while she’s in her civilian garb, she looks like the average woman her age who hits the gym enough to keep in shape, but not for definition. Her arms appear strong, but not defined, which is more a power lifter aesthetic than a body builder.

Some of this might go to how artists draw costumes.  One of the major flaws of a lot of “good girl” art is that it’s done where the costume often appears painted on, rather than being made of any sort of fabric.

As a Kryptonian, she doesn’t have to be jacked. Even earlier depictions of Superman had him being a big guy, but not exactly rippling with muscles. They don’t get strong in the same way an Earthling does, so characters like Supergirl can look like early 20-something co-eds, and yet still bend rebar with their bare hands, no sweat.

Personally, and I’m biased from my age I'm sure, but I like the Adam Hughes version that’s athletic, but not swole.  I think he gets a lot of his inspiration from athletes like volleyball and basketball players, if I had to guess (and a question that I guess he could be asked once he's recovered).  This physicality should be something along with the hairstyle, that sets PG apart from Supergirl. A lot of artists nowadays seem to be drawing Supergirl and Power Girl as just twins with different hair styles, and I think that diminishes both characters, but I guess that's another topic of discussion.

ANYways... again, if you like muscle mommy PG, that's cool! Not my thing for Kara, but I do like a muscled She-hulk. I just think it's important to note that in continuity, there's only been one version of this character, and she she may or may have not died, because either Waid or Ross forgot they killed her when the nuke dropped on Smallville, and then she's in the last issue...

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 2 months ago
▲ 148 r/PowerGirl+1 crossposts

Kandor?

JSA Classified #4. Art by Amanda Conner, Story by Geoff Johns.

Having recieved the Omnibus, I'm doing the obligatory reread of the return to Krypton origin for Power Girl. The above is a panel that I went past, then had that "waitaminute" moment and had to revisit.

Apparently, one of the differences between Krypton-1 and Krypton-2 is that there was no Brainiac to shrink and preserve Kandor--which according to this, Kara Zor-L is from. This makes another distinction between her and Supergirl, as she's from Argo City.

Could be Psycho-Pirate messed up as well, given him being insane and all...

Either that or Geoff Johns confused his Kryptonian cities, which is possible, but I Iike the idea that there's something else to differentiate between the two multiversal twins.

And a side note: as I mentioned elsewhere, while I 'get' why they put Supergirl #12 in, as it dovetails directly into the Terra miniseries with Power Girl that's also in the omnibus, I wish they'd included Infinite Crisis #2 as well (or instead), as it is the main part that returns Kara's origin to pre-CoIE. The book goes from all the leadup to her relearning her origin, to... just having it back. No reveal within the collection.

Minor quibble, but, whatever.

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 2 months ago
▲ 298 r/PowerGirl

Ame-Comi Girls

I passed on these when the first dropped (I can be particular of mixing anime/manga and western comics), buuuut it is Palmiotti and Gray, so I picked up the trades and will dive in this weekend. Thoughts from anyone who has read 'em?

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 2 months ago

An Expanded History of DC [discussion]

So, hear me out...

I personally think it would be awesome if DC did a sort of "living gazetteer/history book" of their locales with their books like Historia: the Amazons and The Atlantis Chronicles. Update "The World of Krypton", and add in a book (or two) for the major cities where other heroes are from and their history. A collected series of tomes with the same spine design, and maybe a unified art style for the covers.

Also, if you've not read the Atlantis Chronicles, it still holds up really well for 36 year old series, and I don't believe has been taken out of continuity. It makes a wonderful companion piece for Historia.

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 2 months ago

Comic reorganization rediscovery

I'm doing a massive overhaul and reorganization of my comics, and rediscovered this in the bag/back of a comic.

Back in '95, at a tiny con at a Holiday Inn by my college, Mart Nodell was there signing autographs and doing sketches. As I was a poor college student, I couldn't afford the astronomical fee of $20 for a sketch from him (oh, what a dolt I was). I did get to get his autograph and chat with him for a time though. Sweet old guy. I'm glad to have met one of the legends who helped create DC.

A year or two later, I was wearing a GL t-shirt out and about in public (which was NOT fashionable at the time, let me tell ya), and a woman my age stopped me, recited the oath, and introduced herself as "Mart Nodell's granddaughter". I would have tried to get her number, but she was with her boyfriend... but again, had a nice talk on the street about her grandfather and the Lanterns.

Anywho. Just sharing with the class. :)

Art by Mart Nodell, DC comics trading card, 1991

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 3 months ago
▲ 124 r/PowerGirl

(another) Memorable Issue: DC Comics Presents #56

Inspired a post by u/fs_scott, here’s a quick bit about DC comics presents #56, another memorable issue of Power Girl’s history.

Cover art by Gil Kane, with the classic “Noooo!!! She’s dead!!!” pose later made iconic by George Perez in Crisis. {Personal note, I passed on the opportunity to get a commission by Gil Kane “back in the day”, and it remains one of my comic book regrets.}

DC Comics Presents, along with “The Brave and the Bold” were one off comics starring Superman and Batman respectively, along with another hero.  DC treated them as “gateway” comics, where a single issue story could be told, with a well-known hero, teamed with one that either was C-list, or a simple tale with another A or B lister.  This style of comic (along with Marvel’s Marvel Team-up starring Spider-man, and Marvel Two-in-One starring the Thing) fell out of favor in the early 80s. Attempts at tB&tB and M2in1 have both been tried since, but to reader disinterest.

ANYWAY… DC Comics Presents #56 (1983, interior art Curt Swan, written by Paul Kupperberg) sees Power Girl in her first story not somehow tied to the JSA.  Earlier tales had her either part of the JSA overall, or linked to them in some fashion, so a minor milestone for the character breaking out on her own.

The basic story is a universal conqueror brings Superman from Earth-1 and Power Girl (Earth-2) together to fight in his gladiatorial games.  Both resist, but are overwhelmed by the power of this new character, Maalador.  The story is really simple, and in the end, both prevail over the would-be conqueror, as his powers cause him to collapse then disperses into his own Cthulian realm of madness, deep into the depths of the multiverse.

Two other things stand out about this comic.

First, it’s the first time we see Kara’s Kryptonian powers expand a bit.  Previously, she hadn't grown into them yet.  Being from Earth-2, like her cousin Kal-L, she’d started with the basic three powers:  Speed (faster than a speeding bullet), Strength/Invulnerability (more powerful than a locomotive) and super-jumping (able to leap tall buildings in a single bound).  She hadn’t exhibited anything beyond that until this issue, when she’s shown using vision powers, helping Superman seal an inter-dimensional breach.  On the one hand, it shows growth and maturity of the character, on the other… it was likely an editorial oversight.

The second big thing that is important, but not obvious, is that it’s the first time that Paul Kupperberg wrote the character. He is a very important writer in PG’s history, which I’ll get to in another post, as he was the one who first guided her through her post-Crisis continuity.

Overall, it’s a self-contained, fairly simple issue, but still kept her in character as a brash young woman who hadn’t yet become the adult hero she’s been portrayed as since Crisis. Great cover art, and a nice one-shot to have in the collection if you intend to own every PG appearance.

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 3 months ago
▲ 151 r/PowerGirl

On fancasting. Power Girl then, Power Woman now (Kingdom Come)

Let's face it, fan casting is always done "in the now". By the time any production moves forward, it's almost always too late.

In the microscopic chance Kingdom Come would ever be adapted...

I nominate Hannah Waddingham. Heck, in that parallel universe where the Conner/Palmiotti/Gray run is adapted live back in 2011, she would have been a great Power Girl, imo.

Pictures are her from 2010, 2011, and 2017.

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 3 months ago
▲ 26 r/GNV

Traffic Light at NW 8th Ave and 22nd St. out

Passed it at 4:05, folks on 8th are just speeding through it. Yes, I've informed the powers that be about it.

Just be careful on that. Limbs down on 8th as well.

reddit.com
u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 3 months ago

JSA All-Stars (2010-2011)

Another redditor posted about this series in a different group, and I figured I'd go a bit more in depth here.

For those unfamiliar, it's a series from 2010-2011 running 18 issues. Obviously a spin-off of the main JSA title at the time, it's mostly the "youngsters" of the JSA forming their own group after a schism.

If you missed it, it's a fun, solid read, and puts Power Girl in the leader position. It has three major storylines over the 18 issues, and a backup story with Liberty Belle, Hourman, Icicle, and Tigress over the first 12.

The highlight for folks like us of course, is PG's role in it all. As I say, she's the co-leader at first, then leader of the team. It showcases her as a superhero, and not her secret ID, but honestly, Lilah Sturges does a good job with the stories. It's not breaking new ground, but is one of the best PG forward titles she's been in.

Back issues and tpbs can be scarce due to low print runs, and it was one of the victims of the new52, but if you are a PG fan, this series needs to be part of your collection.

u/mr_mxyzptlk21 — 3 months ago