Image 1 — A boy and a girl died in a dynamite explosion between the years 1921-1951. Who were the Los Angeles County Does?
Image 2 — A boy and a girl died in a dynamite explosion between the years 1921-1951. Who were the Los Angeles County Does?
Image 3 — A boy and a girl died in a dynamite explosion between the years 1921-1951. Who were the Los Angeles County Does?
Image 4 — A boy and a girl died in a dynamite explosion between the years 1921-1951. Who were the Los Angeles County Does?

A boy and a girl died in a dynamite explosion between the years 1921-1951. Who were the Los Angeles County Does?

The images attached are the girl’s reconstructions. I originally attached the photo of the boy’s legs, but it didn’t post for some reason, though the photo can be found on his unidentified wiki page, it isn’t graphic.

Between the years 1921 and 1951, in Los Angeles County, California, a boy and a girl died from a dynamite explosion.

The case and case photos were found in homicide detective Jack Huddleston’s scrapbook, and the full postmortem photos can be found in the book: ‘Death Scenes, A Homicide Detectives Scrapbook’, by Katherine Dunn and Sean Tejaratchi, on pages 58 and 59. The detective worked between 1921 and 1951, which is how they got the estimate for the year of death. The photos of the boy and girl were not dated. The review of the book Death Scenes refers to the deceased as “a young lover couple”, though this is likely just speculation.

Supposedly, the two of them were seen playing by, or in, a dam, and one of them (thought to be the boy because of the injuries he sustained) picked up a stick of dynamite, or was playing with a stick of dynamite. The dynamite exploded in their hands, and killed them instantly. While the date of death is unknown, the police were called instantly and the post mortem interval was minutes.

Websleuths user ‘MelmothTheLost’ gave a list of dams built in Los Angeles between the years 1921-1951:
Mulholland Dam (1923-1924)
Rindge Dam (1924-1926)
St Francis Dam (1924-1926) (Failed in 1928, Demolished in 1929)
Santa Anita Dam (1924-1927)
Little Rock Dam (1924, renovated in 1932, nearly failed in 1938; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little\_Rock\_Dam)
Bouquet Canyon Dam (1934)
Hansen Dam (1939-1940) (US Army Corps of Engineers)
Santa Fe Dam (1941-1949) (US Army Corps of Engineers)
Sepulveda Dam (1941-1949) (US Army Corps of Engineers)

Dynamite was used to build dams. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dams_in_Los_Angeles_County,_California)

The Boy

The boy was estimated to have been between 4-17 years old (a very large gap but it’s what each source i could find for him says), he was wearing dark-coloured loafers; dark socks; medium-toned pants and possibly a dark-coloured, long-sleeved shirt. His height, weight, eye colour, hair colour and any distinguishing features he may have had, are all unknown.

His body was in such bad condition that the most recognisable part of him were his legs and feet, his upper body and head were destroyed, and because of this they were not able to create a facial reconstruction, however, according to a Websleuths user, ‘whorton’, who owns a copy of the book, said: “The boy has nothing but pulp left where his head was. His feet and legs are intact. The male is laying on the ground with a few plants and lots of dirt clods. He appears to be wearing dress pants, a sport jacket and both of his shoes are on his feet; his shoes appear to be ankle high (it’s hard to tell from the angle of the photo), and the tips are curved and pointed, though this feature could just be the result of a stretch/warp in the photo. He is laying on his back and we are viewing it from the head downward towards his feet. The only damage seems to be extensive fragmentation to his head, making it unrecognisable. His right arm is draped over his body and his hand is missing or mangled. It is difficult to discern if there is blood near his head, or just shadows. The photo was well lit and appears to have been taken in the early afternoon.”, though another Websleuths user, ‘ladyballplayer’, said: “His head looks like it was smashed not "blown off". There's no brain matter in the vicinity. That photo doesn't look like the damage was caused by something exploding in his hands at all. I can't wrap my head around how these injuries could have happened at the same time. Was she holding the stick with her hands and feet next to his head while he was lying on the ground?”

The Girl

The girl was estimated to have been between 13-19 years old, she was wearing a light-coloured, long-sleeved top, a dark-coloured skirt or pants, and dark-coloured socks with stripes at the top.

Websleuths user ‘whorton’, who owns the book and has seen the photos, described the girl’s injuries in the photo as: “The female appears to be laying on sand with no plants visible. (appears to be a beach almost.) She is also laying on her back with her face clearly visible and in remarkable condition. Left side facing us. Her left foot appears mangled, but right leg is missing mid tib fib region. Clothing is pretty extensively ravaged and she may have avulsed intestines. Her face is largely intact however there is damage to the right side of her face.”

Alternatives / Theories / Suggestions

The Idea That The Two Were Originally Identified

Something that has been speculated about a lot with this case is that the two could’ve been identified when the incident happened, but due to the bad record keeping their identification went missed later on, or just wasn’t documented.

Were The Photos Really Of The Incident?

Some users on Websleuths speculated that, because the two photos weren’t just one photo (the photo of the boy and the photo of the girl were on two different pages, with the pages being next to eachother) and that the injuries (though whether you believe the injuries align with an explosion or not is your opinion) didn’t align with an explosion, that the photos may have been of separate incidents, and that Huddleston may have been misremembering the background of the two photos, and falsely believing the photos belonged to another case. This could also be why there isn’t a newspaper available about a dynamite explosion involving two young adults/teens/children.

Huddleston also did have photos from different States, and it has also been considered that the photos were from the dynamite case Huddleston thought they were from, but that they didn’t occur in California like he thought they did.

Ending Note: I apologise for any typos this post may have. If anything is misspelt or confusing, let me know and i will correct it and/or explain it a little better. I couldn’t find much of anything on this case, but i tried to compile everything i could find.

Sources:
https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/main.html?id=225ufca

https://unidentified-awareness.fandom.com/wiki/Los_Angeles_Jane_Doe_(1921-1951)

https://unidentified-awareness.fandom.com/wiki/Los_Angeles_John_Doe_(1921-1951)

https://websleuths.com/threads/ca-los-angeles-county-whtfem-225ufca-1-of-2-children-killed-by-dynamite-1921-1951.87375/

(Postmortem Warning, Photo of The Girl’s Face/Head) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jane_Doe_1921_-_1951_(2).jpg

(Graphic Content Warning, Various Graphic Postmortem Photos. This link is to a review of the book Death Scenes): https://anil.aggrawal.org/ij/vol_002_no_002/reviews/pb/page003a.html

u/pikagirl7534 — 1 day ago

A boy and a girl, both thought to be young, were killed from a dynamite explosion. Due to bad record keeping, the date of death is unknown, but occurred at some point within the years 1921-1951. Who were the Los Angeles County Does?

Between the years 1921 and 1951, in Los Angeles County, California, a boy and a girl died from a dynamite explosion.

The case and case photos were found in homicide detective Jack Huddleston’s scrapbook, and the full postmortem photos can be found in the book: ‘Death Scenes, A Homicide Detectives Scrapbook’, by Katherine Dunn and Sean Tejaratchi, on pages 58 and 59. The detective worked between 1921 and 1951, which is how they got the estimate for the year of death. The photos of the boy and girl were not dated. The review of the book Death Scenes refers to the deceased as “a young lover couple”, though this is likely just speculation.

Supposedly, the two of them were seen playing by, or in, a dam, and one of them (thought to be the boy because of the injuries he sustained) picked up a stick of dynamite, or was playing with a stick of dynamite. The dynamite exploded in their hands, and killed them instantly. While the date of death is unknown, the police were called instantly and the post mortem interval was minutes.

Websleuths user ‘MelmothTheLost’ gave a list of dams built in Los Angeles between the years 1921-1951:
Mulholland Dam (1923-1924)
Rindge Dam (1924-1926)
St Francis Dam (1924-1926) (Failed in 1928, Demolished in 1929)
Santa Anita Dam (1924-1927)
Little Rock Dam (1924, renovated in 1932, nearly failed in 1938 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little\_Rock\_Dam)
Bouquet Canyon Dam (1934)
Hansen Dam (1939-1940) (US Army Corps of Engineers)
Santa Fe Dam (1941-1949) (US Army Corps of Engineers)
Sepulveda Dam (1941-1949) (US Army Corps of Engineers)

Dynamite was used to build dams. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dams_in_Los_Angeles_County,_California)

The Boy

The boy was estimated to have been between 4-17 years old (a very large gap but it’s what each source i could find for him says), he was wearing dark-coloured loafers; dark socks; medium-toned pants and possibly a dark-coloured, long-sleeved shirt. His height, weight, eye colour, hair colour and any distinguishing features he may have had, are all unknown.

His body was in such bad condition that the most recognisable part of him were his legs and feet, his upper body and head were destroyed, and because of this they were not able to create a facial reconstruction, however, according to a Websleuths user, ‘whorton’, who owns a copy of the book, said: “The boy has nothing but pulp left where his head was. His feet and legs are intact. The male is laying on the ground with a few plants and lots of dirt clods. He appears to be wearing dress pants, a sport jacket and both of his shoes are on his feet; his shoes appear to be ankle high (it’s hard to tell from the angle of the photo), and the tips are curved and pointed, though this feature could just be the result of a stretch/warp in the photo. He is laying on his back and we are viewing it from the head downward towards his feet. The only damage seems to be extensive fragmentation to his head, making it unrecognisable. His right arm is draped over his body and his hand is missing or mangled. It is difficult to discern if there is blood near his head, or just shadows. The photo was well lit and appears to have been taken in the early afternoon.”, though another Websleuths user, ‘ladyballplayer’, said: “His head looks like it was smashed not "blown off". There's no brain matter in the vicinity. That photo doesn't look like the damage was caused by something exploding in his hands at all. I can't wrap my head around how these injuries could have happened at the same time. Was she holding the stick with her hands and feet next to his head while he was lying on the ground?”

The Girl

The girl was estimated to have been between 13-19 years old, she was wearing a light-coloured, long-sleeved top, a dark-coloured skirt or pants, and dark-coloured socks with stripes at the top.

Websleuths user ‘whorton’, who owns the book and has seen the photos, described the girl’s injuries in the photo as: “The female appears to be laying on sand with no plants visible. (appears to be a beach almost.) She is also laying on her back with her face clearly visible and in remarkable condition. Left side facing us. Her left foot appears mangled, but right leg is missing mid tib fib region. Clothing is pretty extensively ravaged and she may have avulsed intestines. Her face is largely intact however there is damage to the right side of her face.”

Alternatives / Theories / Suggestions

The Idea That The Two Were Originally Identified

Something that has been speculated about a lot with this case is that the two could’ve been identified when the incident happened, but due to the bad record keeping their identification went missed later on, or just wasn’t documented.

Were The Photos Really Of The Incident?

Some users on Websleuths speculated that, because the two photos weren’t just one photo (the photo of the boy and the photo of the girl were on two different pages, with the pages being next to eachother) and that the injuries (though whether you believe the injuries align with an explosion or not is your opinion) didn’t align with an explosion, that the photos may have been of separate incidents, and that Huddleston may have been misremembering the background of the two photos, and falsely believing the photos belonged to another case. This could also be why there isn’t a newspaper available about a dynamite explosion involving two young adults/teens/children.

Huddleston also did have photos from different States, and it has also been considered that the photos were from the dynamite case Huddleston thought they were from, but that they didn’t occur in California like he thought they did.

Ending Note: I apologise for any typos this post may have. If anything is misspelt or confusing, let me know and i will correct it and/or explain it a little better. I couldn’t find much of anything on this case, but i tried to compile everything i could find.

Sources:
https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/main.html?id=225ufca

https://unidentified-awareness.fandom.com/wiki/Los_Angeles_Jane_Doe_(1921-1951)

https://unidentified-awareness.fandom.com/wiki/Los_Angeles_John_Doe_(1921-1951)

https://websleuths.com/threads/ca-los-angeles-county-whtfem-225ufca-1-of-2-children-killed-by-dynamite-1921-1951.87375/

(Postmortem Warning, Photo of The Girl’s Face/Head) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jane_Doe_1921_-_1951_(2).jpg

(Graphic Content Warning, Various Graphic Postmortem Photos. This link is to a review of the book Death Scenes): https://anil.aggrawal.org/ij/vol_002_no_002/reviews/pb/page003a.html

reddit.com
u/pikagirl7534 — 1 day ago

Three boys went missing after going off to explore a cave known as “Murphy’s Cave”. What happened to Edwin Craig Dowell, William Francis Hoag and Joel Wise Hoag?

On Monday, the 8th of May 1967, brothers William Francis Hoag (who went by both Bill and Billy) and Joel Wise Hoag (who went by both Joe and Joey) were exploring a cave known Murphy’s Cave, in Hannibal, Marion County, Missouri; the cave was close to the construction site on Highway 79, and a worker spotted the boys. This worker told Billy and Joey to leave the cave alone as it was dangerous, but no known precautions were actually taken to prevent other explorers from entering the cave.

Billy and Joey did not listen to the worker, and instead returned to Murphy’s Cave, having snuck out to go to the cave, on Tuesday, the 9th of May, with two of their friends (some sources say that Craig was with them on the 9th, but i am unsure if that is confirmed or not). Billy and Joey returned home later that night with their clothes covered in red clay mud, leading them to be scolded by their mother, Helen, and being told by her to wash their clothes. Both Helen and Mike told them that they were to not ever go to the cave again, and if they did they would be in big trouble.

The next day, Wednesday, the 10th of May 1967, Helen and Mike left the Hoag residence to go to a meat market, giving their eldest children strict instructions to thoroughly watch their younger siblings and make sure that Joey and Billy did not leave the house. When Joey returned from school that day, he was greeted by DeDe, with Billy already being in the house (i’m not sure if Billy had simply arrived home earlier or was off sick that day) before entering the house and going into his bedroom to change out of his school clothes.

DeDe recalled telling Joey and Billy to: “You stay in the yard now, you hear me?”, but she said that Billy did not answer her. Tim (who was 15 at the time) and DeDe (who was 16 at the time) were obeying their parents’ orders to watch both Billy and Joey, though at some point they lost track of the boys, and the two had gone back out to see Murphy’s Cave, taking a flashlight, a homemade lantern (some sources say it was a homemade lantern, others say a homemade ladder, it could have been both, but again, it changes depending on the source), and a shovel with them. Over the course of the afternoon, Joey and Billy would be seen with several of their friends, including 14 year-old Edwin Craig Dowell. Craig went by his middle name, and it is unknown if he was actually a friend to the boys or just an acquaintance, but Craig and Joel both attended Hannibal Junior High. Billy and Joey had asked another friend of theirs, 11 year-old Greg Henderson, to go with them to the cave, but he couldn’t as he was called in for dinner (though i want to note that, like many other details of this case, the reason why Greg couldn’t come changes depending on the source, and it’s also said he couldn’t come because he was grounded and confined to his room).

The timestamp of when the boys were exactly last seen is contradictory, apparently they were in Murphy’s Cave at around 4:35 P.M., but they were spotted several more times around town between 4:40 P.M. and 5:15 P.M., sometimes together and sometimes separately. Likewise, the story of who had exactly last seen them was blurred too; “One source said the last known sighting of the boys was by a teenage girl. Another says it was a teacher. Yet another says they were last spotted on top of a cliff called Lover’s Leap by a janitor at their school. This was the latest reported sighting of the boys; after 5:15, all traces of them were lost.” (taken from: https://maryhallberg.wixsite.com/maryhallberg/post/the-lost-boys-of-hannibal-missing-for-55-years).

Around 5:15 P.M., a friend of Billy and Joey stopped by the Hoag house to see if they were home. Helen and Mike, who had came back from the meat market, said that they weren’t there, but told this friend to tell Billy and Joey to come home immediately if they saw them. When Billy and Joey weren’t home by 5:45 P.M., their brother Tim began looking for them; he went to Murphy’s Cave and saw some of the boys’ friends there, and these friends told Tim that they saw Billy, Joey and Craig go into the cave earlier. Tim did enter the cave but found nothing. Shortly before 6:30 P.M., Helen called the police to report Billy and Joey missing.
That same day, the construction work nearby had caused a cave-in at Murphy Cave, and investigators feared that the boys were inside of the cave when it had happened and ended up trapped with no way out (though this hasn’t been confirmed and remains speculation).

Along with the police, groups like The Mark Twain Emergency Squad, the National Speleological Society, Civil Defence Workers, and The Missouri National Guardsmen, were brought in to help search for the boys. Over 200 cave explorers, both professional experts and amateur enthusiasts, from Missouri, Illinois, and Washington D.C., searched through Murphy’s Cave, mapping it as they went along. It was noted that some of the passages they searched were so narrow that one of the more petite searchers, who weighed 98 pounds, could barely squeeze in. The Hoag family, Helen and Mike and their other nine children, as well as a score of relatives, all remained present during the searches and insisted, pleaded and demanded that rescuers divide their forces and search other caves to the Southeast (this was noted to be done but, from what i could find, only in Murphy’s Cave itself, not any other caves), with Helen specifically urging for greater efforts to be made, climbing the hills around Hannibal herself, and staying, watching the search, and hoping during the long day and night hours. Two police dogs, one from Hannibal and another from St. Louis, were brought in to aid in the search, though their efforts ended at the base of a rockfall ceiling off of one section of the cave. A non-police dog, a small, mostly-Dachshund dog named Tike, from the Hoag neighbourhood, also failed to help locate the boys. The ground disruption/equipment from the construction work also uncovered two new cave entrances about 400 yards to the East, one entrance was filled in, but the other was open; these weren’t the only new tunnels discovered, the construction work unearthed more and more each day, Murphy’s Cave itself was described as a Labyrinth, and The Mark Twain Emergency Squad said there was a slide in a cave passage about 20 feet to the right of the entrance that blocked rescue teams from entering a section of the cave running along the face of the bluff. The only real “clue” was that a lone sock, thought to belong to Craig, was found in a quarry by members of the Mark Twain Emergency Squad, along with a red substance believed to be blood.

Eventually, all of these searches turned up nothing, and the boys were never seen again.

The latest lead was in 2006, when construction workers building a new Elementary School on Highway 79 found a small cave about 50 feet long. Authorities checked it to see if the Hoag brothers or Craig were there, but this new search also turned up with nothing.

Joel Wise Hoag

Joel Wise Hoag was born on the 25th of July 1954 to mother Helen Hoag and father Mike Hoag; Joel had ten other siblings, 6 brothers and four sisters, with Billy, Tim, Michael Jr., Roberta Rae, Robin Jay, and Deborah (who went by DeDe) being the only ones named. Joel went by Joey and Joe, and according to his sister DeDe, he was quite a serious boy, (atleast more serious than Billy, who was described as being very mischievous) who was very interested in science, particularly astronomy; he kept a “meticulous” journal that he signed each night: “Amateur Astronomer Joel Hoag”. Joel was very adventurous, and enjoyed exploring with his classmates and young neighbours. DeDe noted that Joel was often seen with his telescope watching the stars. Joel also wanted to be the first man on the moon.

At the time of disappearance, Joel was 12 years old (he was turning 13 in July, but every source lists him as being 13); he was 5’6 feet tall and weighed about 100 lbs, he had a scar on his forehead and a dark complexion. His hair and eye colour are both noted to be brown. His clothing description is a white t-shirt and blue jeans.

William Francis Hoag

William Francis Hoag was born on the 4th of October 1955 to mother Helen Hoag and father Mike Hoag. William had ten other siblings, 6 brothers and four sisters, with Joel, Tim, Michael Jr., Roberta Rae, Robin Jay, and Deborah (who went by DeDe) being the only ones named. William went by Bill and Billy, and was described by DeDe to be a “funny little thing” as well as being very mischievous. William was very adventurous, and enjoyed going on his adventures and exploring with his classmates and young neighbours. He was also described by an (unnamed) sister to have liked to do whatever Joel liked to do.

At the time of disappearance, William was 11 years old, he was 5’5 feet tall and weighed 80 lbs. His hair was red/auburn, and described as being crew cut, his eyes were blue. William had fair skin with freckles, and a scar under his right arm in the shape of a V from a picket fence incident. William’s clothing is described as a white t-shirt and blue jeans.

Edwin Craig Dowell

Edwin Craig Dowell was born on the 29th of December 1952; as far as i could see, all of Craig’s family members are unnamed, but he did have three brothers, and lived with his family. He was affectionately described by his mother to be “crazy about bicycles”. Instead of Edwin, he went by his middle name, Craig.

At the time of disappearance, Craig was 14 years old, he was 5’0 feet tall and 100 pounds, characteristics like hair colour and eye colour aren’t listed, and The Doe Network and The Charley Project list his exact height, weight, eye colour and hair colour as all being unknown.

Theories

Abduction Theory and JWG Theory:

There’s been speculation that the boys did not enter the cave at all, and were abducted instead, with a new(er) theory suggesting that John Wayne Gacy was responsible: “A new book written by John Wingate, a Hannibal native, suggests that the boys might have been slain by serial killer John Wayne Gacy. John was convicted of murdering 33 boys and young men in the Chicago, Illinois area between 1972 and 1978. The theory is that John encountered the three boys near the caves and offered them a lift home. Instead, he took the boys to a nearby wooded area where he assaulted and killed them. The possibility also stands that he might have buried them in that location as well. Wingate started to heat from 3 different psychics when he started making trips to both Hannibal and Illinois to sign his book.
The 3 psychics suggested that Gacy was actually responsible for the boys demise. The first psychic showed up at Wingate’s book conference and became visibly upset because she felt the boys presence as he spoke. Several weeks later, another psychic called one the sisters of the Hoag brothers and said she believed without a doubt that John Wayne Gacy was in fact responsible for the deaths of her two brothers and their friend. Another woman from Wyoming who is a psychic claimed that when she was looking at photos of the three boys, she saw visions of the boys being assaulted and slain by Gacy.
Apparently, this wasn’t the first time that Gacy’s name came up in connection to the three boys in Hannibal. When he was arrested for his crimes in 1978, many rumors and questions went around as to whether Gacy could’ve been in Hannibal at the time they disappeared. It was discovered that Gacy was living and working in Waterloo, Iowa in 1967 while his mother was living in Little Rock, Arkansas at the time. If Gacy was to go and visit his mother, he would take Highway 61 which takes you right through Hannibal. There is also the fact that during the huge search for the boys in 1967, man people in Hannibal reported seeing a “mystery man” hanging around the cave entrances for a couple of days while the road construction took place. The boys were known to be playing in the caves in the days before they disappeared. The man was never seen again after the boys disappeared. There was some skepticism towards the 3 women all sensing a connection to the boys and Gacy but it’s been noted that they all corroborated each other’s information independently. Two of the psychics did tell Wingate that the mystery man was actually Gacy. John would’ve been 35 years old when the boys went missing in 1967. He also drove each of the women around Hannibal to see if they indicated any areas of interest in August and September of 2018. He said all 3 of them indicated some of the same areas and locations in relation to Gacy and the boys. He said “In all three cases, we’d find ourselves standing at the same location on three different days” and described it as beyond coincidental. One of the psychics also suggested that Gacy could’ve been responsible for two other disappearances in the Monroe City area. John Wagner was last seen in Monroe City after he dropped his little brother off at a school dance in February of 1968. In June of 1977, Rickey Enochs left his home in Monroe City with an unidentified individual in a vehicle with Illinois license plates and was never seen again. Both boys remain missing. Gacy has not been proven to be the killer of the Hoag brothers and Edwin but there’s much speculation that he was involved. He was executed by lethal injection on May 9th 1994. He was a diagnosed psychopath who showed no remorse for any of his crimes.”

My Opinion(s) On This:

The theory that JWG was responsible is easily debunked by these factors: you can easily suggest JWG as a suspect, but the case wouldn’t even match his M.O., and JWG didn’t start killing until 1972. You can say that we don’t know when he started killing for sure, that would be somewhat valid, but it’s very unlikely (and unreal to suggest that) he killed 3 young boys in 1967. Whether you believe psychics or not, it’s insanely easy to blame one of the most, if not the most, famous serial killer for the boys’ disappearances, and i imagine for quite good pay too. I wouldn’t even say that it was odd that all of the psychics came to the conclusion that JWG was responsible, if they blamed someone like Dean Corll (which is just an example, not a suggestion. Dean definitely did not do this, and i don’t think any killer did either, for that matter) then maybe i’d think “hey, it probably wasn’t him, but it’s odd they got it three times!”, but again, everyone knows the name of JWG, and it’s so easy to stick his name onto this case, or literally any case involving a boy going missing.

- End of Theories (Edit: To prevent confusion, none of those theories come from me; i put whatever sort of theory i can find under there, and remember that every theory is just a theory, unless theres hard evidence to prove its true, which in this case, there isn’t).

Authorities believe that all of the boys are deceased today, even if it didn’t happen in the cave; though the most likely scenario is that the boys died within the cave, and it is pretty obvious that is what happened.

There is a memorial marker for the boys inside of the cave. In 2010, author Charles Stewart published a book about them, A Sorrow of the Heart.

Ending Note: I apologise for any potential misspellings this post may have, i did proofread but i am sorry if i missed any typos. If any of what i said is hard to understand, let me know and i’ll try to clear up what it means and edit the post to make it clearer. I also apologise if the layout of this does not look so good on other devices, i wrote this on mobile, so i acknowledge it may potentially be a bit of an eyesore on computer.

Sources:
https://rcccmcc.com/2020/04/17/william-francis-hoag/

https://charleyproject.org/case/william-hoag

https://rcccmcc.com/2020/04/17/joel-wise-hoag/?amp=1

https://maryhallberg.wixsite.com/maryhallberg/post/the-lost-boys-of-hannibal-missing-for-55-years

https://charleyproject.org/case/joel-hoag

https://charleyproject.org/case/edwin-craig-dowell

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/149044005/edwin_craig-dowell

https://rcccmcc.com/2020/04/17/edwin-craig-dowell/?amp=1

https://websleuths.com/threads/mo-edwin-dowell-14-joel-13-william-hoag-11-hannibal-10-may-1967.174595/

https://www.trailwentcold.com/e/the-trail-went-cold-episode-340-the-lost-boys-of-hannibal/

https://medium.com/the-mystery-box/the-mystery-of-the-lost-boys-of-hannibal-b7b19fbd0d6c

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8a5WAAAAIBAJ&pg=PA11&dq=billy+hoag&article_id=4236,3826499&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjkO7l_rSVAxVQVfEDHX5jO0cQuwV6BAgMEAc#v=onepage&q=billy%20hoag&f=false

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mq0rAAAAIBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=william+hoag&article_id=5615,1385309&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi2kZ2N_7SVAxXFAtsEHQnmGM4QuwV6BAgNEAc#v=onepage&q=william%20hoag&f=false

https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/mp-main.html?id=4945dmmo

https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/mp-main.html?id=4946dmmo

https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/mp-main.html?id=4947dmmo

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/149044014/william-hoag

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/149044012/joel-hoag

https://www.foxnews.com/us/the-lost-boys-mississippi-river-town-haunted-by-unsolved-disappearance-50-years-later.amp

u/pikagirl7534 — 3 days ago

On the 21st of September 1990, in Maryland Heights, a boy using the name “Johnny Lee Mills” ran away from a youth shelter. His page on NamUs has been taken down, but nothing indicates his identification. Who was Johnny Lee Mills?

At an unspecified date in 1990 in St. Louis, Missouri, a young boy who used the name “Johnny Lee Mills” was arrested and taken into police custody on suspicion of being a runaway.

He was initially placed into Youth Emergency Services in St. Louis, but on the 21st of September 1990 he was transferred to a youth/children’s shelter/centre in Maryland Heights, Missouri. In Maryland Heights, he gave the name “Johnny Lee Mills” and told them he had been on his own for “quite some time” and worked at the truck stops, indicating that he was a sex worker.

Johnny ran away from the shelter before his identity could be confirmed, and he was reported missing under the name “Johnny Lee Mills”. From this missing report, it was discovered that everything he had told them was false, and that he also used the aliases of “Steve(n) L. Johnson” and “Randy (some sources spell it Randi) Smith”. After this was found out, he was removed as a missing person from NCIC in 2008, and the NCMEC closed his case. His true identity was never established, and his case file was lost.

Johnny was thought to have been 13 years old and born in 1977; he was white, 5’5 feet tall, and weighed 180 lbs; both his hair and eyes are listed as being brown. Clothing is unknown, but he was noted to have “gaps between his teeth”. His distinguishing marks are: “3 1/2 " to 4" scar on breastbone, 1" to 1 1/2" scar on left side of chest”

Theories:

Serial Killer Theory:
On Websleuths, it was proposed that Johnny could be a victim of Larry Eyler or Tommy Lynn Sells, but the most popular theory on Johnny’s case is that he fell victim to a serial killer that targeted young male prostitutes, and it was claimed that this killer had various unidentified victims, and atleast two of which matched Johnny’s description, but please note that the Doe Network says this: “Recent discussions with the investigating agency indicate that this information regarding a serial killer is not correct as there was no serial killer of young boys in the area at the time "Johnny Lee Mills" appeared and disappeared.”

Michael Lloyd Johnson:
On the 26th of August 2011, Websleuths user ‘Deeds’ proposed the idea that Johnny could be Michael Lloyd Johnson, who went missing in November of 1974 from Jackson County, Missouri. Michael Lloyd Johnson’s case description from The Doe Network: “Michael disappeared together with his mother, Freda Denman and sister Sheri Lynn Johnson. Their father has not been seen either since that time. The family went missing in November 1974, but the landlord did not report them missing until March 1975. The police found Freda's clothes in the closet, while her husband's and children's clothes were missing. Blood was found on a cushion in the home, but the tests were inconclusive. Denman's husband Henry Lee Harbison aka Henry Johnson has an extensive criminal background and uses several aliases. Henry had affiliations with members of the "Church of the New Song" who claim the family was murdered. The Denman family believes that Freda was killed, and the children were given away. The Independence police investigated it as a missing person's case. At the same time, the FBI was looking for Henry. Independence closed their case, assuming the FBI would pick up where they left off, but that didn't happen, and the case remains unsolved.
In 2004, the police reopened the investigation in the disappearances.”
(https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/mp-main.html?id=836dmmo) (https://www.namus.gov/MissingPersons/Case#/6234) (https://api.missingkids.org/poster/NCMC/959565/1)

Jeffrey Jon Mills:
On the 3rd of December 2013, Websleuths user ‘gayeld’ proposed the idea that Johnny could be a man called Jeffrey Jon Mills, 39, who was arrested for abducting, raping and killing Sherri Farrar. Users thought that Jeffrey and Johnny had a very strong resemblance, and there are some features the two share, but the strongest reason people thought the two were the same person was that Jeffrey was unaccounted for in his younger years. This theory was disproven, and Jeffrey had actually been ruled out as being Johnny. (A Source For Jeffrey’s Case If Anyone Is Intrigued: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-supreme-court/1509446.html)

End of Theories Section.

At some-point in November of 2023, Johnny’s NamUs page was taken down, along with his Doe Network page being removed.
This indicates that Johnny was identified, but there’s nothing to say he was or wasn’t, or even that he was identified and his name is being withheld; something i found interesting was that, a few years before both pages were taken down, his Doe Network classification changed from Unidentified to Missing, and he was added to NamUs as a missing person rather than an unidentified person, but i could be reading too much into both of these things.

As far as i’m aware, and from what i came across while researching, Jeffrey Jon Mills is the only person ruled out as being Johnny.

Ending Note(s): I want to make it clear i’m not saying he wasn’t identified, i’m confused on if he was or not, i completely understand him being identified with a withheld name but what i’m trying to say is that i couldn’t find anything on him from recent years at all, so i couldn’t say for certain that he had been identified. If anyone has proof that he was identified i will take this post down!

I apologise if there’s any badly worded parts of this post or any misspellings, i did proofread but i’m sorry if i missed anything out, tell me if anything’s confusing or misspelt and i will edit the post to make it clearer/correct it! I also apologise if the layout is an eyesore, i wrote this on mobile so it may not look so good on other devices.

Sources:

https://nicolehenley.medium.com/nameless-johnny-lee-mills-61ea99632712

https://unidentified-awareness.fandom.com/wiki/Johnny_Lee_Mills

https://web.archive.org/web/20220709024855/http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/111dmmo.html

https://websleuths.com/threads/mo-johnny-lee-mills-aka-steven-l-johnson-randi-smith-13-maryland-heights-21-sep-1990.42009/?__cf_chl_f_tk=XqMFzHcvBTZoInZMyazCJejVZhGYacd6uOPqgBjUBm4-1782922947-1.0.1.1-_eP0ut6exOUVJXYEYNUBXV8TYksGc8XUVY0kRnc78Kg

u/pikagirl7534 — 4 days ago

On the 21st of September 1990, in St. Louis, a boy using the name “Johnny Lee Mills” ran away from a youth shelter. His page on NamUs has been taken down, but nothing indicates his identification. Who was Johnny Lee Mills?

At an unspecified date in 1990 in St. Louis, Missouri, a young boy who used the name “Johnny Lee Mills” was arrested and taken into police custody on suspicion of being a runaway.

He was initially placed into Youth Emergency Services in St. Louis, but on the 21st of September 1990 he was transferred to a youth/children’s shelter/centre in Maryland Heights, Missouri. In Maryland Heights, he gave the name “Johnny Lee Mills” and told them he had been on his own for “quite some time” and worked at the truck stops, indicating that he was a sex worker.

Johnny ran away from the shelter before his identity could be confirmed, and he was reported missing under the name “Johnny Lee Mills”. From this missing report, it was discovered that everything he had told them was false, and that he also used the aliases of “Steve(n) L. Johnson” and “Randy (some sources spell it Randi) Smith”. After this was found out, he was removed as a missing person from NCIC in 2008, and the NCMEC closed his case. His true identity was never established, and his case file was lost.

Johnny was thought to have been 13 years old and born in 1977; he was white, 5’5 feet tall, and weighed 180 lbs; both his hair and eyes are listed as being brown. Clothing is unknown, but he was noted to have “gaps between his teeth”. His distinguishing marks are: “3 1/2 " to 4" scar on breastbone, 1" to 1 1/2" scar on left side of chest”

Theories:

Serial Killer Theory:
On Websleuths, it was proposed that Johnny could be a victim of Larry Eyler or Tommy Lynn Sells, but the most popular theory on Johnny’s case is that he fell victim to a serial killer that targeted young male prostitutes, and it was claimed that this killer had various unidentified victims, and atleast two of which matched Johnny’s description, but please note that the Doe Network says this: “Recent discussions with the investigating agency indicate that this information regarding a serial killer is not correct as there was no serial killer of young boys in the area at the time "Johnny Lee Mills" appeared and disappeared.”

Michael Lloyd Johnson:
On the 26th of August 2011, Websleuths user ‘Deeds’ proposed the idea that Johnny could be Michael Lloyd Johnson, who went missing in November of 1974 from Jackson County, Missouri. Michael Lloyd Johnson’s case description from The Doe Network: “Michael disappeared together with his mother, Freda Denman and sister Sheri Lynn Johnson. Their father has not been seen either since that time. The family went missing in November 1974, but the landlord did not report them missing until March 1975. The police found Freda's clothes in the closet, while her husband's and children's clothes were missing. Blood was found on a cushion in the home, but the tests were inconclusive. Denman's husband Henry Lee Harbison aka Henry Johnson has an extensive criminal background and uses several aliases. Henry had affiliations with members of the "Church of the New Song" who claim the family was murdered. The Denman family believes that Freda was killed, and the children were given away. The Independence police investigated it as a missing person's case. At the same time, the FBI was looking for Henry. Independence closed their case, assuming the FBI would pick up where they left off, but that didn't happen, and the case remains unsolved.
In 2004, the police reopened the investigation in the disappearances.”
(https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/mp-main.html?id=836dmmo)
(https://www.namus.gov/MissingPersons/Case#/6234)
(https://api.missingkids.org/poster/NCMC/959565/1)

Jeffrey Jon Mills:
On the 3rd of December 2013, Websleuths user ‘gayeld’ proposed the idea that Johnny could be a man called Jeffrey Jon Mills, 39, who was arrested for abducting, raping and killing Sherri Farrar. Users thought that Jeffrey and Johnny had a very strong resemblance, and there are some features the two share, but the strongest reason people thought the two were the same person was that Jeffrey was unaccounted for in his younger years. This theory was disproven, and Jeffrey had actually been ruled out as being Johnny. (A Source For Jeffrey’s Case If Anyone Is Intrigued: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-supreme-court/1509446.html)

End of Theories Section

At some-point in November of 2023, Johnny’s NamUs page was taken down, along with his Doe Network page being removed.
This indicates that Johnny was identified, but there’s nothing to say he was or wasn’t, or even that he was identified and his name is being withheld; something i found interesting was that, a few years before both pages were taken down, his Doe Network classification changed from Unidentified to Missing, and he was added to NamUs as a missing person rather than an unidentified person, but i could be reading too much into both of these things.

As far as i’m aware, and from what i came across while researching, Jeffrey Jon Mills is the only person ruled out as being Johnny.

Ending Note(s): I want to make it clear i’m not saying he wasn’t identified, i’m confused on if he was or not, i completely understand him being identified with a withheld name but what i’m trying to say is that i couldn’t find anything on him from recent years at all, so i couldn’t say for certain that he had been identified. If anyone has proof that he was identified i will take this post down!

I apologise if there’s any badly worded parts of this post or any misspellings, i did proofread but i’m sorry if i missed anything out, tell me if anything’s confusing or misspelt and i will edit the post to make it clearer/correct it! I also apologise if the layout is an eyesore, i wrote this on mobile so it may not look so good on other devices.

Sources:

https://unidentified-awareness.fandom.com/wiki/Johnny_Lee_Mills

https://web.archive.org/web/20220709024855/http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/111dmmo.html

https://websleuths.com/threads/mo-johnny-lee-mills-aka-steven-l-johnson-randi-smith-13-maryland-heights-21-sep-1990.42009/

https://nicolehenley.medium.com/nameless-johnny-lee-mills-61ea99632712

reddit.com
u/pikagirl7534 — 4 days ago

Weber County John Doe (1951)

On the 20th of September 1951, a transient man was riding on top of a Denver and Rio Grande freight train, near the Roy station, in Roy, Weber County, Utah. The man fell between the cars when the train reduced speed while coming to a spur, resulting in him being crushed beneath the wheels, and subsequently ran over by the following 28 freight cars.

The man was White/Caucasian, estimated to be between 50-55 years old, between 5’7-5’9 feet tall, and anywhere between 155-165 pounds.

He had grey hair, and was wearing a blue pinstriped suit. No wallet or papers were found, but food was found on top of one of the flat cars loaded with lumber near the front of the train. He was unrecognisable with traumatic injuries.

Sources:
https://unidentified-awareness.fandom.com/wiki/Weber\_County\_John\_Doe\_(1951)

https://solvepedia.org/cases/UP106803

https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/main.html?id=4736umut

https://www.namus.gov/UnidentifiedPersons/Case#/106803?nav

https://bci.utah.gov/coldcases/john-doe-weber-county/

u/pikagirl7534 — 13 days ago

A transient man was crushed by a freight train he had been riding on top of; who was Weber County John Doe? (1951).

On the 20th of September 1951, a transient man was riding on top of a Denver and Rio Grande freight train, near the Roy station, in Roy, Weber County, Utah. The man fell between the cars when the train reduced speed while coming to a spur, resulting in him being crushed beneath the wheels, and subsequently ran over by the following 28 freight cars.

The man was White/Caucasian, estimated to be between 50-55 years old, between 5’7-5’9 feet tall, and anywhere between 155-165 pounds.

He had grey hair, and was wearing a blue pinstriped suit. No wallet or papers were found, but food was found on top of one of the flat cars loaded with lumber near the front of the train. He was unrecognisable with traumatic injuries.

Sources:
https://bci.utah.gov/coldcases/john-doe-weber-county/

https://www.namus.gov/UnidentifiedPersons/Case#/106803?nav

https://unidentified-awareness.fandom.com/wiki/Weber_County_John_Doe_(1951)

https://solvepedia.org/cases/UP106803

https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/main.html?id=4736umut

u/pikagirl7534 — 13 days ago
▲ 467 r/RealHorrorExperience+1 crossposts

The skeletal remains of a young boy between the ages of 9-12 were found 300 yards up a steep, heavily wooded gully west of Kings Mountain Road in Woodside, San Mateo County, California; who was Woodside John Doe?

On the 20th (NamUs says this, while also saying “Skeletal remains and clothing of preadolescent male found by hiker between 10/13/1975 - 10/19/1975.”, San Mateo Coroners Office says the remains were discovered on the 13th) of October 1975, the skeletal remains of a young boy were found 300 yards up a steep, heavily wooded gully west of Kings Mountain Road, 1/4 miles south of the entrance to Huddart Park, in Woodside, San Mateo County, California. It was estimated the boy could’ve died anywhere between 1972-1974.

The boy had died from beating, more specifically from a skull fracture, and was estimated to be between 9-12 years old, he was between 4’7 to 5’0 foot tall, and his weight could not be determined; he was thought to be white, but that may have changed as the San Mateo Coroners office now lists his ancestry as being unknown. It was noted that his teeth were in terrible condition, with extensive decay in his lower teeth, which suggested he had little to no dental care in life.
Due to the condition of his remains, his hair colour and eye colour are both unknown.

He Was Wearing:
A dark blue sweater/jacket with snaps; red, green, black and grey vertically striped sweater/jacket liner; i want to note that NamUs states that these two items are the same thing: “Dark blue long-sleeved sweater/jacket with snaps and a reg/green/black/gray verticle striping; long-sleeve jacket liner”, with the liner being a different thing, though no other sources say this; i’m saying this to clear up any potential confusion, but i have to say i’m pretty confused too, so if anyone can educate me on what this might mean/clear up the confusion i’ll edit the post!

Brown hiking boots with hooks and eyelets (the boots were size 7-7.5), the boots had white oblique angled striping on the soles and transverse striping on the heels; the boots were found near the remains, and the laces were missing from the boots.

A wooden cross/rosary with a back-to-front clasp was found with the body; the corpus was missing, along with some wooden beads being missing; “Italy” was inscribed on the cross.

It’s thought that John Doe was from a migrant family and working the circuit of seasonal harvests.

Ending Note: I’m really sorry if any of this is hard to read, i proofread but i do apologise if i missed any typos; i also wrote this on mobile, so i’m sorry if the layouts an eyesore and/or doesn’t look so good on any other devices.

Sources:
https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/main.html?id=771umca

https://www.smcgov.org/coroner/john-doe-75-936#75-936

https://unidentified-awareness.fandom.com/wiki/Woodside\_John\_Doe

https://www.missingkids.org/poster/NCMU/1167344/1

https://websleuths.com/threads/ca-woodside-whtmale-child-771umca-9-12-near-huddart-park-sep75.49822/

https://counteverymystery.blogspot.com/2019/10/october-20-1975-woodside-california.html?m=1

https://www.namus.gov/UnidentifiedPersons/Case#/10524?nav

reddit.com
u/Dont_lookbehind — 19 days ago

Woodside, San Mateo County, California John Doe

On the 20th (NamUs says this, while also saying “Skeletal remains and clothing of preadolescent male found by hiker between 10/13/1975 - 10/19/1975.”, San Mateo Coroners Office says the remains were discovered on the 13th) of October 1975, the skeletal remains of a young boy were found 300 yards up a steep, heavily wooded gully west of Kings Mountain Road, 1/4 miles south of the entrance to Huddart Park, in Woodside, San Mateo County, California; the body was first discovered by a man named Martin Stumer, though he thought nothing of it until he and his girlfriend Lisa saw the remains on the 20th, i could not find anything stating the date that Martin first saw the remains. It was estimated the boy could’ve died anywhere between 1972-1974.

The boy had died from beating, more specifically from a skull fracture, and was estimated to be between 9-12 years old, he was between 4’7 to 5’0 foot tall, and his weight could not be determined; he was thought to be white, but that may have changed as the San Mateo Coroners office now lists his ancestry as being unknown. It was noted that his teeth were in terrible condition, with extensive decay in his lower teeth, which suggested he had little to no dental care in life.
Due to the condition of his remains, his hair colour and eye colour are both unknown.

He Was Wearing:
A dark blue sweater/jacket with snaps; red, green, black and grey vertically striped sweater/jacket liner; i want to note that NamUs states that these two items are the same thing: “Dark blue long-sleeved sweater/jacket with snaps and a reg/green/black/gray verticle striping; long-sleeve jacket liner”, with the liner being a different thing, though no other sources say this; i’m saying this to clear up any potential confusion, but i have to say i’m pretty confused too, so if anyone can educate me on what this might mean/clear up the confusion i’ll edit the post!

Brown hiking boots with hooks and eyelets (the boots were size 7-7.5), the boots had white oblique angled striping on the soles and transverse striping on the heels; the boots were found near the remains, and the laces were missing from the boots.

A wooden cross/rosary with a back-to-front clasp was found with the body; the corpus was missing, along with some wooden beads being missing; “Italy” was inscribed on the cross.

It’s thought that John Doe was from a migrant family and working the circuit of seasonal harvests.

Ending Note: I’m really sorry if any of this is hard to read, i proofread but i do apologise if i missed any typos; i also wrote this on mobile, so i’m sorry if the layouts an eyesore and/or doesn’t look so good on any other devices.

Sources:
https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/main.html?id=771umca

https://www.smcgov.org/coroner/john-doe-75-936#75-936

https://unidentified-awareness.fandom.com/wiki/Woodside_John_Doe

https://www.missingkids.org/poster/NCMU/1167344/1

https://websleuths.com/threads/ca-woodside-whtmale-child-771umca-9-12-near-huddart-park-sep75.49822/

https://counteverymystery.blogspot.com/2019/10/october-20-1975-woodside-california.html?m=1

https://www.namus.gov/UnidentifiedPersons/Case#/10524?nav

u/pikagirl7534 — 19 days ago

Are there any Does that match Keith Dean Fleming? 13 year-old boy disappeared after leaving his girlfriends house and planning to hitchhike home.

Copy and Pasted my post from r/UnresolvedMysteries.

Note: There’s a lot of different descriptions of the circumstances of his disappearance, so i’ll try to get them all down in a way that’s readable and doesn’t blend them together in a confusing way.

Keith Dean Fleming was born on the 18th of September 1963 to Donald and Maria Fleming. Keith was the youngest out of the Fleming children, he had two older brothers, Eugene and Gerald. Keith went to Roosevelt Middle School, where he was apparently known as a “rebel”, Keith embraced the ‘surfer’ lifestyle, and he would frequent Cocoa Beach Pier to go surfing; Keith also enjoyed rock music and biking.

On the 28th of April 1977, in Cocoa Beach, Brevard County, Florida, Keith Fleming went missing after spending a day swimming with his girlfriend, Gina. Keith had to be home for dinner, so he and Gina rode her bike, with her on the handlebars, to the end of Osceola Lane where it intersects with State Road A1A. Keith began walking south along SR A1A, and intended to hitchhike the rest of the 2 miles home. When Gina returned home, she told her mother Keith was going to hitchhike back home, and her mother got in the car and went looking for Keith, wanting to drive him home herself, but she couldn’t locate him.

(What i will say next really confused me. His brothers were named Eugene and Gerald, but in this paragraph i read from it says his brother Jeff. I don’t know if Jeff is a nickname for Eugene or Gerald, or even if one of his brothers was called Jeff and the writer didn’t mean to put Eugene or Gerald, but i was very confused, so i’ll just say his brother)

Keith was supposed to go with his brother later that evening to the restaurant where their mother, Maria, worked, but his brother turned up alone and told Maria that he didn’t see Keith. Maria knew something was wrong immediately because Keith always called whenever he would be late. They went straight to the Cocoa Beach Police and explained what happened, but the police insisted that Keith had just ran away and would turn up again later, even though he had taken no belongings and was only wearing flip-flops at the time. The police didn’t make an attempt to look for Keith, they only put a BOLO (Be On The Look Out) for him, and stuck to the runaway theory. The police didn’t speak to Keith’s girlfriend, Gina, the last person to see him, until 1993.

Keith had some minor issues, his parents had caught him with marijuana and forced him to go to a drug therapy centre called ‘Alternatives’ (some sources say he was staying there at the time of disappearance); they had promised that if he stayed on the straight path they would buy him a new surfboard and Maria says that he attended and he listened.

Keith was 13 years old, his height was 5’0, his weight was between 90-110lbs.
He had lost his top two front teeth and he wore a partial plate. He had a recently-healed broken left leg. Keith had brown eyes and shoulder-length straight blonde hair, but some sources say it had been trimmed recently before his disappearance. He had full lips. He was wearing a green t-shirt with “Thirsty Turtle” on it, blue jeans and flip-flops. He wore a gold chain with an Italian horn.

In 1978 and 1979, Maria received a series of phone calls, and she says she knows it was Keith and recognised his voice. When she answered the first call she heard a lot of noise in the background and then a voice said “i just wanna talk to my mom” before the line went dead. The second call simply said “i love you” before hanging up and the third call said “Help me!”. The Fleming family had received prank calls before, but Maria feels that these calls were different.

Theories:

A Theory From Maria:
Maria’s first thought when she learned Keith had gone missing was of the flower girls; for several weeks, Cocoa Beach had been flooded by members of The Unification Church (known as The Moonies), and they would stand on the side of the road selling carnations and looking for donations. When driving with Keith one time, some of the girls waved at him and he waved back, telling Maria they were just some friends of his. At the time, it didn’t concern Maria, but it remained in her thoughts after his disappearance.

The Magazine:
“In 1980 an inmate in a Georgia prison saw a picture of Keith in a newspaper article about his case and he immediately recognised his face from a magazine featuring gay models. There was apparently a lengthy article featuring a young man who bore a striking resemblance to how Keith would look a few years older. He sent a copy of the magazine to Maria and to the police but they were unable to trace the magazine’s origins and it was a dead end. I am skeptical about whether the police actually made much effort to trace this publication. It should have been relatively simple to find the origins of a magazine that was doing the rounds of a prison and locate the people who wrote the articles. Maria says that she was the only person who thought this person was Keith. The police didn’t feel it was him and never followed it up properly, but by this time they had another theory as to what happened to Keith.” (from https://neverseenagain.wordpress.com/2024/10/25/keith-fleming/)

John McRae:
A suspect in Keith’s case is the serial killer John McRae. McRae worked as a guard at a juvenile detention facility in Florida, where he admitted he often watched boys surf on the beach.
From McRae’s wiki:
“Following his conviction, McRae was transferred to the Michigan Reformatory in Ionia, where he learned the trade of an auto mechanic and underwent several sex offender rehabilitation programs. During his incarceration, he never exhibited violent tendencies, was never disciplined and was considered a model prisoner. In 1971, after a series of decisions by the Supreme Court questioned the imposition of the death penalty and life without parole on juvenile offenders, Governor William Milliken commuted McRae's sentence to life imprisonment with a chance of parole by executive order. McRae was paroled from prison on February 2, 1972, after spending 21 years behind bars. He then moved to Crystal, Michigan with his mother where, with the support of his mother, he soon found housing and work. In 1973, he married Barbara Ann Heckman, who gave birth to his son Martin in 1974. The following year, McRae was finally allowed to leave Michigan, moving to Brevard County, Florida, to work as a guard at a juvenile detention facility. One theory purports that McRae provided fake documents that concealed his criminal record upon entering the institution. For the remainder of his stay in Florida, McRae came under police suspicion several times in connection with the disappearances of local children. On April 28, 1977, 13-year-old Keith Fleming vanished from Cocoa Beach after last being seen on the highway near a beach, just a few hundred yards from McRae's house. While McRae was questioned regarding the case, he was never arrested as no direct evidence indicated his responsibility. Fleming's body was never found.
Two years later, McRae came under police scrutiny again after 12-year-old Kipling Randolph Hess III disappeared. Hess was last seen alive on March 27, 1979, walking on his way to school in the Merritt Island area. However, he never showed up to class that day, and was declared missing. Upon leaving home, the boy left a note addressed to his parents that read "Goodbye, Mom and Dad." During the investigation, McRae became the main and only suspect in his disappearance, as it was determined that he and his son Martin had met Hess at a Catholic church carnival a few days prior to his disappearance. As in the Housey case, McRae joined the volunteer searches and assisted police in the search right up to the time he became a suspect. After the search ended, McRae was questioned while his apartment and the interior of his car were searched. Despite this, no evidence implicating him in Hess's disappearance was uncovered, and Hess remains missing. His body has never been found.”

Ending Note: I’m really sorry if there’s any spelling errors in this, i tried to make everything neat and good-to-read, and i did proofread but there may still be some mistakes. Another thing i apologise for is if the spacing/layout doesn’t look so good on non-mobile devices.

Sources:
https://neverseenagain.wordpress.com/2024/10/25/keith-fleming/

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/icaremissingpersonscoldcases/keith-dean-fleming-missing-from-cocoa-beach-florid-t563.html

https://www.newspapers.com/article/florida-today-keith-fleming/48103542/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John\_Rodney\_McRae

https://int-missing.fandom.com/wiki/Keith\_Fleming

https://www.missingkids.org/poster/NCMC/601296/1

https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/mp-main.html?id=229dmfl

https://websleuths.com/threads/fl-keith-fleming-13-cocoa-beach-28-april-1977.48734/

https://namus.nij.ojp.gov/case/MP6062

https://charleyproject.org/case/keith-dean-fleming

https://www.newspapers.com/article/florida-today-arthur-bud-ayres-cbpd/106076294/

https://www.newspapers.com/article/detroit-free-press-a-very-scary-man-amon/37119564/

u/pikagirl7534 — 23 days ago
▲ 531 r/RealHorrorExperience+1 crossposts

13 year-old boy disappeared after leaving his girlfriends house and planning to hitchhike home. What happened to Keith Dean Fleming?

Note: There’s a lot of different descriptions of the circumstances of his disappearance, so i’ll try to get them all down in a way that’s readable and doesn’t blend them together in a confusing way.

Keith Dean Fleming was born on the 18th of September 1963 to Donald and Maria Fleming. Keith was the youngest out of the Fleming children, he had two older brothers, Eugene and Gerald. Keith went to Roosevelt Middle School, where he was apparently known as a “rebel”, Keith embraced the ‘surfer’ lifestyle, and he would frequent Cocoa Beach Pier to go surfing; Keith also enjoyed rock music and biking.

On the 28th of April 1977, in Cocoa Beach, Brevard County, Florida, Keith Fleming went missing after spending a day swimming with his girlfriend, Gina. Keith had to be home for dinner, so he and Gina rode her bike, with her on the handlebars, to the end of Osceola Lane where it intersects with State Road A1A. Keith began walking south along SR A1A, and intended to hitchhike the rest of the 2 miles home. When Gina returned home, she told her mother Keith was going to hitchhike back home, and her mother got in the car and went looking for Keith, wanting to drive him home herself, but she couldn’t locate him.

(Note: What i will say next really confused me. His brothers were named Eugene and Gerald, but in this paragraph i read from it says his brother Jeff. I don’t know if Jeff is a nickname for Eugene or Gerald, or even if one of his brothers was called Jeff and the writer didn’t mean to put Eugene or Gerald, but i was very confused, so i’ll just say his brother)

Keith was supposed to go with his brother later that evening to the restaurant where their mother, Maria, worked, but his brother turned up alone and told Maria that he didn’t see Keith. Maria knew something was wrong immediately because Keith always called whenever he would be late. They went straight to the Cocoa Beach Police and explained what happened, but the police insisted that Keith had just ran away and would turn up again later, even though he had taken no belongings and was only wearing flip-flops at the time. The police didn’t make an attempt to look for Keith, they only put a BOLO (Be On The Look Out) for him, and stuck to the runaway theory. The police didn’t speak to Keith’s girlfriend, Gina, the last person to see him, until 1993.

Keith had some minor issues, his parents had caught him with marijuana and forced him to go to a drug therapy centre called ‘Alternatives’ (some sources say he was staying there at the time of disappearance); they had promised that if he stayed on the straight path they would buy him a new surfboard and Maria says that he attended and he listened.

Keith was 13 years old, his height was 5’0, his weight was between 90-110lbs.
He had lost his top two front teeth and he wore a partial plate. He had a recently-healed broken left leg. Keith had brown eyes and shoulder-length straight blonde hair, but some sources say it had been trimmed recently before his disappearance. He had full lips. He was wearing a green t-shirt with “Thirsty Turtle” on it, blue jeans and flip-flops. He wore a gold chain with an Italian horn.

In 1978 and 1979, Maria received a series of phone calls, and she says she knows it was Keith and recognised his voice. When she answered the first call she heard a lot of noise in the background and then a voice said “i just wanna talk to my mom” before the line went dead. The second call simply said “i love you” before hanging up and the third call said “Help me!”. The Fleming family had received prank calls before, but Maria feels that these calls were different.

Theories:

A Theory From Maria:
Maria’s first thought when she learned Keith had gone missing was of the flower girls; for several weeks, Cocoa Beach had been flooded by members of The Unification Church (known as The Moonies), and they would stand on the side of the road selling carnations and looking for donations. When driving with Keith one time, some of the girls waved at him and he waved back, telling Maria they were just some friends of his. At the time, it didn’t concern Maria, but it remained in her thoughts after his disappearance.

The Magazine:
“In 1980 an inmate in a Georgia prison saw a picture of Keith in a newspaper article about his case and he immediately recognised his face from a magazine featuring gay models. There was apparently a lengthy article featuring a young man who bore a striking resemblance to how Keith would look a few years older. He sent a copy of the magazine to Maria and to the police but they were unable to trace the magazine’s origins and it was a dead end. I am skeptical about whether the police actually made much effort to trace this publication. It should have been relatively simple to find the origins of a magazine that was doing the rounds of a prison and locate the people who wrote the articles. Maria says that she was the only person who thought this person was Keith. The police didn’t feel it was him and never followed it up properly, but by this time they had another theory as to what happened to Keith.” (from https://neverseenagain.wordpress.com/2024/10/25/keith-fleming/)

John McRae:
A suspect in Keith’s case is the serial killer John McRae. McRae worked as a guard at a juvenile detention facility in Florida, where he admitted he often watched boys surf on the beach.
From McRae’s wiki:
“Following his conviction, McRae was transferred to the Michigan Reformatory in Ionia, where he learned the trade of an auto mechanic and underwent several sex offender rehabilitation programs. During his incarceration, he never exhibited violent tendencies, was never disciplined and was considered a model prisoner. In 1971, after a series of decisions by the Supreme Court questioned the imposition of the death penalty and life without parole on juvenile offenders, Governor William Milliken commuted McRae's sentence to life imprisonment with a chance of parole by executive order. McRae was paroled from prison on February 2, 1972, after spending 21 years behind bars. He then moved to Crystal, Michigan with his mother where, with the support of his mother, he soon found housing and work. In 1973, he married Barbara Ann Heckman, who gave birth to his son Martin in 1974. The following year, McRae was finally allowed to leave Michigan, moving to Brevard County, Florida, to work as a guard at a juvenile detention facility. One theory purports that McRae provided fake documents that concealed his criminal record upon entering the institution. For the remainder of his stay in Florida, McRae came under police suspicion several times in connection with the disappearances of local children. On April 28, 1977, 13-year-old Keith Fleming vanished from Cocoa Beach after last being seen on the highway near a beach, just a few hundred yards from McRae's house. While McRae was questioned regarding the case, he was never arrested as no direct evidence indicated his responsibility. Fleming's body was never found.
Two years later, McRae came under police scrutiny again after 12-year-old Kipling Randolph Hess III disappeared. Hess was last seen alive on March 27, 1979, walking on his way to school in the Merritt Island area. However, he never showed up to class that day, and was declared missing. Upon leaving home, the boy left a note addressed to his parents that read "Goodbye, Mom and Dad." During the investigation, McRae became the main and only suspect in his disappearance, as it was determined that he and his son Martin had met Hess at a Catholic church carnival a few days prior to his disappearance. As in the Housey case, McRae joined the volunteer searches and assisted police in the search right up to the time he became a suspect. After the search ended, McRae was questioned while his apartment and the interior of his car were searched. Despite this, no evidence implicating him in Hess's disappearance was uncovered, and Hess remains missing. His body has never been found.”

Ending Note: I’m really sorry if there’s any spelling errors in this, i tried to make everything neat and good-to-read, and i did proofread but there may still be some mistakes. Another thing i apologise for is if the spacing/layout doesn’t look so good on non-mobile devices.

Sources:
https://neverseenagain.wordpress.com/2024/10/25/keith-fleming/

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/icaremissingpersonscoldcases/keith-dean-fleming-missing-from-cocoa-beach-florid-t563.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rodney_McRae

https://int-missing.fandom.com/wiki/Keith_Fleming

https://www.missingkids.org/poster/NCMC/601296/1

https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/mp-main.html?id=229dmfl

https://websleuths.com/threads/fl-keith-fleming-13-cocoa-beach-28-april-1977.48734/

https://namus.nij.ojp.gov/case/MP6062

https://charleyproject.org/case/keith-dean-fleming

https://www.newspapers.com/article/detroit-free-press-a-very-scary-man-amon/37119564/

https://www.newspapers.com/article/florida-today-keith-fleming/48103542/

https://www.newspapers.com/article/florida-today-arthur-bud-ayres-cbpd/106076294/

u/Dont_lookbehind — 18 days ago
▲ 105 r/Vent

I know this one will undeniably stir a lot of opinions & controversy; but entitled parents & dog owners are one in the same. Your child is the apple of YOUR eye, nobody elses, and your dog is the apple of YOUR eye, nobody elses.

I am so tired of dogs running up to me and the owner laughing it off, if your dog is running at and jumping at people in a playground and/or park you have failed to train your dog properly and your dog should be on a leash.
You chose to get a dog, nobody should be expected to be empathetic and bend over backwards for you because of your shitty attempts to control your dog.

It’s the same with parents. If your child is going up to people and smacking them, that is completely on you for your horrible parenting.
If you are in a supermarket and your child is pulling the products off of the shelf in a store while you stand there just saying “No, no, no, don’t do that” i automatically know that you are a horrible parent, bonus points if you don’t pick up what your child has thrown afterwards; children are perfectly allowed to pick things up and look at them, everybody is, it’s when they start to throw & damage the items & just run completely rampant while the parent does nothing to stop them. Parents of toddlers who have an entitled, materialistic attitude at such a young age & just stand by thinking it’ll go away, your child will have no friends and a shitty personality their entire life because of you.
The only time this behaviour (smacking, etc) in children can be understood is if they are autistic, have ADHD, etc.

I know this is really hypocritical of me talking about bad attitudes when i’m talking this way but idk im just really pissed off atm i think i need to just go to bed and delete this in the morning 💔

reddit.com
u/pikagirl7534 — 2 months ago