u/zman419

Poor Things is a film that I've noticed IS VERY divisive among feminist circles. While some see it as a disturbing but powerful look at the way men mistreat and infantilize women. Others see it as blatant p\*do-bait disguising itself as high art.

I personally lean towards the former than the later. The film makes it so glaringly clear these men are gross and abusive that i think coming out of the film thinking its condoning their behavior has me scratching my head. It feels like a take that you have to strip away any and all nuance to arrive at.

I have seen some people leave the movie thinking its a film about sexual empowerment, which is definitely a take that misses the mark. It ignores the obvious issues of the ability to consent (shes obviously not of a "sound mind")

When Duncan tells Bella "you're starting to lose the sweet way you used to talk", I'd say that serves as the films mission statement. The more mature Bella gets the less desirable she becomes to the men around her. Yes its gross, yes its uncomfortable, yes it's disturbing, but thats the way the film wants you to feel. Its a complete condemnation of the way these men view women and treat Bella.

Now, im 100% willing to admit i could be blind to how the movie fails its messaging. But it's one of those cases where it feels like a lot of discourse strips nuance away and a more recent phenomenon in art discourse where people cant separate "a film making be uncomfortable" from a "film being bad"

Poor Things is a film that I've noticed IS VERY divisive among feminist circles. While some see it as a disturbing but powerful look at the way men mistreat and infantilize women. Others see it as blatant p*do-bait disguising itself as high art.

I personally lean towards the former than the later. The film makes it so glaringly clear these men are gross and abusive that i think coming out of the film thinking its condoning their behavior has me scratching my head. It feels like a take that you have to strip away any and all nuance to arrive at.

I have seen some people leave the movie thinking its a film about sexual empowerment, which is definitely a take that misses the mark. It ignores the obvious issues of the ability to consent (shes obviously not of a "sound mind")

When Duncan tells Bella "you're starting to lose the sweet way you used to talk", I'd say that serves as the films mission statement. The more mature Bella gets the less desirable she becomes to the men around her. Yes its gross, yes its uncomfortable, yes it's disturbing, but thats the way the film wants you to feel. Its a complete condemnation of the way these men view women and treat Bella.

Now, im 100% willing to admit i could be blind to how the movie fails its messaging. But it's one of those cases where it feels like a lot of discourse strips nuance away and a more recent phenomenon in art discourse where people cant separate "a film making be uncomfortable" from a "film being bad"

Trying to parse infinite different and conflicting leftist and feminist narratives and trying to come to terms with whats actually right and wrong to believe is breaking my brains and leaving me riddled with anxiety.

I get so worked up trying to unpack all the various feminist arguments, say, for or against sex work (as an example). I feel... wrong just forming my own opinion on an issue so entrenched in feminism, I have a responsibility as a man to listen and believe what Im told. But when I find that both conflicting sides of the argument almost seems right at the same time it gets my head spinning, I feel uselessly overwhelmed and I never know where to actually land.

I get this way with so many different issues and its well... genuinely ruining my quality of life.

One thing ive been noticing lately is how aggressively anti-kink and somewhat sex negative many feminist circles (including man threads ive seen on this sub).

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Ive read many threads on this sub and the general feminist sub on this matter and its just jarring going from the ultra sex-positive feminism of 10-15 years ago to the way its discussed now.

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You definitely see the most virtrol tossed towards the BDSM community. You see the arguments about how its just men "finding a loophole to abuse women", personal experience of being groomed/coerced into it , and things like getting called prudes for having boundaries and not being down for anything.

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These are HUGE problems but not necessarily things that invalidate the concept of kink/BDSM. Of course a kink is gonna feel abusive and intrusive if its not something your into or comfortable with but you're coerced into. And the idea that having boundaries "makes you a pride" is inherently anti-sex positive, because sex-positivity means engaging with sex on your own terms, how you feel comfortable with it.

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I get the spirit of a lot of these arguments. But i think the absolutist rhetoric often misses the mark and can be borderline infantilizing at times.

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I think a lot of people making these arguments think that in a world completely free of misogyny, things like BDSM simply wouldn't exist, but i genuinely dont think thats necessarily the case