r/AgendaHotel

I’m with everyone that there should have been more ramifications for Adam’s death and he should have been mourned in heaven . BUT, I’m tired of people always acting like that Adam was a righteous crusader against only the worst of the worst.

Sera and Adam themselves admit they don’t know who gets into heaven and why, and going over real world religions (this depends on sects), suicide, fornication, theft, and heresy (atheism or believing a rival religion or evolution if the religion is really crazy) are means of getting into hell. Pentious made a real mistake being too frightened to report Jack the Ripper but him dying in an extermination wouldn’t have fixed it. The narrative that the only sinners in hell are evil hyper Nazis is wrong and if you want to critique the show downplaying or ignoring an explicitly stated point is not a good way to do it. Not only that Adam massacred at random there are plenty of horrific people he left untouched Alastor and Valentino for one. He brought pure chaos and no discipline deconstruct hell’s hierarchy.

I’m tired of people downplaying that Adam enjoyed killing people who are his children for reasons he didn’t understand to make points about other characters that don’t fit the narrative. There’s plenty to criticize Charlie, Lucifer, Sera, and Emily for but ignoring the character you’re trying to prop up isn’t helping win any favors. If you’re upset that Emily and Sera showed more grief for people they didn’t know I agree with you, but don’t sand off the edges of your favorite character.

Btw I’m not judging you for liking Adam, I love Hatemonger from Space King if that means anything. Still Sinner Adam is a major missed opportunity.

Alfier 0.0 artstation

Have some Adam art y'all cuz I am so pissed right now. So apparently the Season 2 Blu ray commentary confirms that we don’t see anyone in Heaven mourning Adam because nobody liked him and they’re probably glad he’s gone.

Yeah I call bullshit.

And before anyone says "Adam was an asshole!" I KNOW. That’s not the damn point.

The problem is that the show established Adam as a fucking celebrity. This man is a rock star. He performs gigs. He’s famous enough that his status is basically common knowledge. He’s implied to have had a ridiculous number of relationships. And on top of that, he’s literally the father of humanity. If we’re talking about Heaven’s population, Adam should have an absolutely enormous amount of cultural and historical significance by default.

And nothing in Season 1 suggested that Adam was universally despised by the Winners, either. In fact, Adam seems perfectly comfortable in Heaven. He’s happy, confident, social, and clearly feels like he belongs there. Most importantly, his hatred is directed overwhelmingly toward SINNERS. There’s no indication that he’s walking around Heaven treating every Winner like shit and being universally hated by everyone around him.

So apparently we’re supposed to believe that this famous rock star, the literal first human, who has had numerous relationships and presumably spent thousands of years interacting with Heaven’s population, had zero people who actually liked him? Not one fan? Not one friend? Not one former partner who was upset? Not one person who appreciated his music? Not one Winner who thought, "Damn, Adam was an asshole, but I’m still going to miss him"? Nah, apparently the only person in Heaven who cared that Adam died was Lute, because that makes perfect sense!

And it's such an extreme writing choice that it actually makes the world feel smaller and less complex than what they want it to be. Because here’s the thing: Being an asshole does not make someone universally disliked.

There are plenty of celebrities and public figures who are arrogant, abrasive, controversial, or outright awful people while still having massive fanbases. Human beings are complicated. People can admire someone’s talent while disliking their personality. Someone can be a terrible person to you and still have friends who love them. Someone can be an asshole and still have people who genuinely mourn them when they’re gone. That’s how social relationships work.

And I’m not even saying EVERYONE should've mourned Adam. Of course some people in Heaven could hate him! Hell, I would actually expect that.

I’m saying that "nobody liked him and everyone is probably happy he’s dead" is an incredibly broad statement that doesn’t mesh well with the character’s established social status.

And honestly, this is part of why I’m so frustrated with how Adam has been handled. Vivziepop has repeatedly talked about loving Adam as a character, but the writing increasingly seems determined to remove anything that could make him an interesting or complicated person outside of being an asshole.

He’s a celebrity? Cool, but apparently nobody actually likes him.

He’s the first man? Cool, but apparently that doesn’t matter socially.

He’s had tons of relationships? Cool, but apparently none of those people cared about him.

He’s capable of being charismatic and entertaining? Cool, but apparently that doesn’t translate into anyone actually enjoying his presence.

At some point, you have to ask: what is the point of establishing these traits if the world around him is written as though they don’t actually have any social consequences?

And no, I don’t need Adam to secretly be a misunderstood sweetheart.

I just want the world to acknowledge that a person can be an asshole and still be a person.

Give me people who loved him. Give me people who hated him. Give me people who were conflicted about him. Give me former friends who admit he was awful but still miss him. Give me fans who are devastated that their favorite musician is dead. Give me Heaven actually reacting to the death of someone who was an incredibly famous and historically significant figure. That would make Adam feel like a real character who existed in a real society.

"Everyone hated him anyway" just feels like the narrative saying "Don’t worry, guys, we don’t have to feel complicated about this. He’s dead, and nobody cares."

And that’s exactly the kind of thing that makes me feel like the writers are more interested in making sure Adam remains a hate sink than actually exploring the character they created. Which might as well be true at this point. Adam deserves better than Vivziepop's bullshit.

Recently a Hazbin con, the VA's for the Vees were asked, "Which of your characters would be the first one to be redeemed". Their response? They know so much of seasons 3 and 4 that they can't answer the question.

This is the 2nd time they've had a question like this. Previously they were asked "what sin would your character need to drop to get to Heaven" and they once again said to watch the show to know the answer for that.

This heavily implies the show will explore redeeming at least one of the Vees. Considering how season 2 ended, and what we've seen of their characters, I think it'd probably be Vox. He's the most insecure while the other two are content in Hell and he's hit rock bottom, which Viv confirms has massively humbled him and he'll stay important until the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2TcJfXltn4

That Vox is 100% the most likely candidate for a true villain getting redeemed.

The series says in episode 1 "from the evil to the strange, anyone can be redeemed". Viv has said she wants to show no matter how low someone falls, they can always climb back up.

So it seems like from this, Vox is almost certainly gonna be either one of the villains redeemed or quite possibly the only one to do so. Because be honest, if only members of the hotel cast get redeemed, it won't really prove "anyone" can change.

So this almost gurantees Vox is gonna be the actually evil character who gets redeemed (assuming the show tries to redeem one). It also makes it more likely Alastor won't be, since he is Vox's foil, he'll probably have a negative arc instead.

What if the Speaker of God’s final form is something similar to a quetzalcoatlus (pic 1), Roo’s final form is something like Carnivores Triassic’s Gojirasaurus (pic 2), and Season 5’s final battle is basically God of Good vs God of Evil… but as colossal beasts? (Pic 3)

I was kinda expecting that Stolas was going to turn because Loona and Via are friends and recognize that just because he’s not the one for Blitzø his daughter’s friendship was special.

People are upset and calling it pointless because all she did was remove the last letter of her name. This really upsets me because y'all would NOT be saying this shit if Vaggi changed her name because she's trans, even though it's damn near the same thing. Trans people change their names to take charge of their identity. Vaggi changed it to do the same thing, just not in a gender related way.

A name doesn’t become meaningful because you changed 15 letters instead of one. It’s HER name. She’s the one who gets to decide what she wants to be called. The entire point of Vaggi’s arc is that Adam gave her that name. The same person who abused her, abused her fellow Exorcists, and ultimately treated her like she was disposable. For a long time, she allowed the identity he gave her to remain part of who she was. Now she’s choosing her own identity.

"But she only changed one letter!" Mf the fact that she didn’t completely reinvent her name is part of the point. I've seen people upset because Adam named her after "vagina" yet she didn't change her name to sound very different from the original degrading name he gave her, but that's literally the point. Vaggi realized she didn't need to do a big dramatic name change because she's already taken charge of who she is, and just because Adam named her doesn't mean it defines her.

"She could've at least changed the pronunciationi!" she did you clown 😭 it was just before the actual name change arc. The original pronunciation was Vaj-ee, she changed it to Vag-ee. So I don't understand why people are complaining about the fact she apparently didn't change the pronunciation (she literally did).

What if a trans person changes their name from Aaron to Erin, or from Chris to Kris? Are we gonna berate them then because it sounds the same as their previous name or because it's not a big enough change? Like "that's stupid, you barely changed it. Pick something else"? No, of course you wouldn't. The hate for Vaggi's name change is so gross imo cuz it's like people are expecting the name to appeal to others rather than the person literally choosing their name.

You can think the name change arc was underwhelming or didn't feel as important or authentic as it should've been, that's one thing, and I agree with it. But calling the name change itself dumb is just such an arrogant thing to do. It's like you think you're owed what YOU believe another person should do with their identity.

The value of a chosen name isn’t determined by how dramatically different it looks from the old one. The value comes from the person choosing it.

Obviously Vaggi’s situation isn’t literally the same thing as a trans person’s experience, but the underlying principle of having the autonomy to choose what you’re called is absolutely comparable. And that’s why I think saying "Vaggi’s new name is dumb because she only changed one letter" is such an arrogant criticism. Saying the name itself is pointless because it isn’t different enough completely misses the character’s agency.

Vaggi doesn’t need to choose a completely unrelated name to prove that she’s free from Adam. She doesn’t need to erase every trace of the identity she had before. She doesn’t need to pick a name that OTHER people think sounds better. Part of her arc is realizing she doesn't have to completely change who she is in order to take charge of her own identity. That's literally the whole point and it's flying right over people's heads.

SHE chose Vaggi, and she's happy with it. That’s enough. The whole point is that Adam gave her a name, but he doesn’t get to decide what that name means anymore. Thank you for coming to my TedTalk.

Also GOD Adam is so hot just look at his fine ass 😍😍😍 I'm gonna give him so many kisses istg HE'S MINEEEEEEE

If this means even more than Sera, then we're 100% seeing a redemption arc from him