r/CatholicUniversalism

Hi all! I wanted to share this post that discuss how universalism or at least hopeful universalism may be defended if one accepts the view that there are no postmortem chances of conversion/repentance: https://ancientafterlifebelifs.blogspot.com/2026/08/the-hope-for-universal-redemption-and.html . I also shared in this post the long quote of St. Edith Stein that appears in chapter 7 of 'A short discourse on Hell' written by the Catholic theologian Hans urs Von Balthasar (the quote itself, however, seems to envision the possibility that there can be post-mortem chances of conversion but I do think that Edith Stein's arguments can be still relevant).

While this post is mostly about how can universalism or hopeful universalism 'fit' with Catholic theology, I do believe that it might be interesting also to non-Catholics. So, I'll share this in both this sub and in the Catholic universalist sub.

Mass musings again

Good morning. As I’ve mentioned before, I am a Catholic who’s trying to sort of reconcile and integrate my Catholic faith with my belief in universal salvation. I haven’t had a lot of new ideas ideas the last few weeks, but today they seemed to be coming to me while I was at mass. I know many here are not Catholic and don’t expect many of you to read this, but for those who do, thank you!

1. Like usual, my big question is what is the meaning of the mass? And yes, maybe I’ve said some of this before, but I’m trying to understand and articulate it in slightly new ways. I think my central question is - if all are saved, then who cares about the mass?

But today I was pondering this:

I used to be sort of an evangelical, just believing a standard protestant version of Christianity. And then almost 30 years ago I converted to the Catholic Church. And I think what drew me in so much was the Catholic Church’s understanding of, and very deep appreciation of, and deep theology regarding the incarnation. So much of Catholicism is incarnational. The churches, the sacraments, the real presence, the rituals, the beauty, the physicality. In that sense, I think I converted because it seemed like this was a correct understanding of the importance of the incarnation. That God truly became man and permanently linked himself to matter and physicality.

But now I’m seeing that an issue with this view was that it didn’t really have a full union perspective, of course. The grace of the sacraments is only in the Catholic Church. Only the priest can perform the mass and make the Eucharist. Only the Catholic Church has the real presence of God in the Eucharist. The Union only extended to Catholics! Thats not enough!

But what if we look at this from a perspective of union. Let’s say that God is truly in union with all people, and for that matter, all things. Which I’m coming to believe, slowly, I think. Then the mass becomes a reminder that God is in union with all things. Again, we start with one thing, the Eucharist, the church, and then we expand that to more things until we understand that God’s presence is everywhere . So when the Priest says “the body of Christ”, well that’s true. Christ IS present in that bread. And initially we believe that he’s present ONLY in that bread. But what if this is just a teaching tool to teach us that not only is He present in THAT bread but in ALL people and things? What if that’s the point of the church’s rituals, to truly teach humanity that God IS present in the church, or in the one thing (Eucharist).Then from there, we can learn that he’s in ALL things? Most of us have to start somewhere?

This wouldn’t mean that the Catholic church is the best way or the only way to learn about union and God‘s presence in the world. But it seems like a way for Catholics to integrate the sacraments with the theology of union. I understand that many Catholics don’t understand union and many people here are not Catholic, and many here understand union much deeper than many Catholics. I am just trying to integrate these ideas. For me this really makes sense, that the church is good and the sacraments and rituals are good and they are teaching us to see God in one thing but then that should lead us to see God in all things.

2. I was also pondering my subjective feelings today when observing the mass. Previously before my understanding of union, I would have the surge of excitement and peace when the priest would consume the sacred host. I would have this experience of union between God and mankind, taking place in front of me in the ceremony. And then it will continue to communion for everyone there. But this union would only extend/relate to the people there. Now I really do sense that union between God and everybody and everything has already taken place! It’s the way it’s always been. And so there’s this real sense that that peace that I would previously experience at mass is there all the time! Am I always aware of it? No. Am I always happy? Of course not. But there is this real sense that there is this additional peace and security and joy all the time, sort of stabilizing life beneath the ups and the downs. And so I don’t really have that temporary, fragile experience of excitement and peace quite the same way, when I am at mass. I feel like I had it already before I walked in the door; it’s so much better!

3. People like Ilia Delio talk about the axial ages. I’m still learning what it means and don’t have a very deep understanding of it yet, but I think part of it means that religions developed at a certain point in human history when mankind needed them. Religion went from a “pagan”, nature worshiping religion to a more organized personal religion. I can’t help but think that we really need to, and are moving towards, a new axial age where religion needs to do much more than it’s currently doing. And I can’t help but think what that that should mean for churches like the Catholic Church. That union, the presence of God in all things, would be a core part of a new Christianity/Catholicism. In other words, maybe the seeds of this deeper understanding are in some of the church’s teachings and liturgies and prayers, but it should be much more fully and clearly clearly manifested in the future. I think that sort of spirituality/religion/understanding is what would truly draw people in and give them hope and meaning as we move forward.

4. Lastly, this came to mind today. Part of the mass is the purification right. This may seem silly or weird to protestants, but I’ve always found it incredibly beautiful and meaningful. Most priests after communion will spend several full minutes using special techniques to clean/purify the sacred vessels. So the chalice (cup)and the paten (metal plate) will be carefully wiped and cleaned off. Any fragments of host/bread will be carefully looked for and consumed, any leftover tiny pieces will be put in the chalice with water and consumed by the Priest. The whole point is to show the utmost respect for the physical presence of Jesus. And not let any of the fragments be lost. My thought today was: if God is present in all things, then this careful, loving, respectful, beautiful way of dealing with things in the world should apply to all things. It’s almost like a model to treat all things with dignity and respect and care. Of course those would mean people and yes, even animals first but also the world in general.

Peace!