r/EuropeFIRE

Hello everyone,

I’d like to start a general discussion about whether the Chinese stock market can really be considered investable for long-term investors.

I often hear two very different views:

• On one side, China is seen as a huge market with long-term growth potential and major companies in many sectors.
• On the other side, people point to political risk, regulatory unpredictability, weak shareholder protections, and the fact that the government can have a strong influence on listed companies and market behavior.

What makes this especially interesting to me is that China is often included in emerging market indices, even though it seems to have a very different risk profile from other countries in that category.

So I’m curious about how people here think about it in general:

• Do you consider China investable as a market?
• Does political and regulatory risk outweigh the growth opportunity?
• Do you treat China as a normal emerging market exposure, or as a separate case entirely?
• Do you think the market is too dependent on state direction to be analyzed like a typical equity market?

I’m not looking for personal investment advice or specific buy/sell recommendations, just interested in how people think about the question from a broad portfolio and market-structure perspective.

Give me an example of frugal while trying to reach FIRE.

Context: We are a couple with a 1-year-old. we earn approximately 9,000 net, but our fixed expenses are quite high (around 6,000 with the majority being mortgage, utility, and childcare).
I feel like our investment rate should be higher than it is. So I am looking for ways to be more frugal.

A while back I posted here about Barista FIRE and the bridge strategy. Since then I've gone deeper on the thing that breaks a lot of FIRE plans in practice: sequence-of-returns risk.

The trap: a 5% average return over 30 years sounds safe. But averages hide the order of returns, and order is everything once you're withdrawing. If years 1–2 of retirement are −30%, you're selling in a crash and the portfolio can fail even though the long-run average was fine.

So a simple "X% average" calculator gives false confidence.

I now run Monte Carlo simulations that address this (using block sampling), a Student-t distribution (fatter tails; crashed happen more often than 'normal' assumes), volatility clustering, and a hard capital floor to report a succes probability across thousand of simulated paths of historical returns.

It folds in state pension, wealth tax (and contribution room), so the numbers are after tax. Curious how people handle the withdrawal phase specifically.

Let me know if you want me to run the (Barista) FIRE analysis on your situation/portfolio. I am a financial econometrician so I love these kinds of analyses. Hope that I can help others with it!

One thing I find interesting about the FIRE mindset is that it's not necessarily about spending as little as possible forever. It's more about being intentional with where your money goes. At the same time, as your income grows, I imagine most people relax a bit in certain areas instead of keeping every aspect of their lifestyle exactly the same.

What were those areas for you? Better housing, travel, eating out, healthier food, hobbies, convenience, experiences, or something else entirely?

Looking back, which upgrades genuinely improved your quality of life and felt worth every euro? And were there any things you spent more on that, in hindsight, you realised weren't worth it?

Hello folks,

I’d like an outside opinion on a long-term investment strategy, with a target of retiring in about 4 years.

Quick background:

• Current net worth: around €700k
• Current allocation: roughly 95% US large-cap equities, 5% crypto
• I keep investing monthly, around €7k per month
• I do not want to sell my current holdings
• My goal is to gradually diversify only through new contributions

Objective:
By retirement, I want to still have a portfolio that is heavily equity-oriented.
My main goal is to reduce concentration risk, not to build a classic “global market” allocation.

My convictions:

• I remain very bullish on the US over the long run
• I do not want to significantly reduce my US exposure
• That said, I am aware of the concentration risk in having exposure to just one country, one market style, and especially large-cap growth stocks

What I am not considering:

• Individual stocks
• Small caps
• European indices
• A classic MSCI World allocation
• Bonds before retirement

Ideas I am currently exploring:

• Emerging markets, either through passive ETFs or active funds
• Emerging markets ETFs or funds excluding China
• Gold as a diversifier
• Possibly a small China allocation, although I am still very undecided on that

What I’d like feedback on:

• Would you prefer passive ETFs or active funds for emerging markets?
• In my case, does gold make sense, or is it better to stay with emerging markets?
• Do you think China is investable as part of a long-term allocation, or is the political risk too high?

I am trying to build an allocation that stays coherent, something like:
80% S&P 500, 5% BTC, 5% gold, 5% China ETF, 5% emerging markets excluding China
without falling into cosmetic diversification.

IMPORTANT EDIT : I’ve only described my invested assets. I will always have at least two years of cash on hand, so there’s no concern on that front.
Also, my withdrawal rate can go down to 2%, so there’s no concern regarding early-stage return risk either.

Using the DCA with all-world ETF (IWDA), but read into JEPI and been thinking of pushing a chunk there to get incremental monthly cashflow.

Besides the obvious tax events and historically lower return than all world etfs, what is your good/bad experience? Do you go all in or mix it up with all-world?

Hi everyone,

27F, Finnish through naturalization (no kid), no inheritance and I’m looking for financial investment advice to FIRE ASAP barely based on 9-5 jobs.

My after-tax income is €2,900 per month. Apart from being a full-time worker, I’m also a student now, so I get the benefit from low rent. My monthly expenses are around €600 - €800, which I think is relatively low. Assuming that 2000 free cash every month (Saving rate 68.9%)

At the moment, I have €35,000 in savings. The distribution is as below:

• I have €15,000 in a flexible savings account for 3 months with 1.55% annual interest. The advantage is that I can withdraw the money anytime, but if I do, I lose the interest. I mainly use this as an emergency fund.
• I also have €10,000 in fixed rate account for 10 month with 3% annual interest, which I also keep for emergencies.
• I also have €10,000 in fixed rate account for 3 month with 2.5% annual interest, which I also keep for emergencies.

Context: A bit more context, Finland unemployment rate is soooo high and I am not confident for the immigrant like me can find a job within 1 year if I am unemployed, so I keep my buffer very high to feel more secured. But willing to loosen it down a bit if things make sense.

And for Investment Portfolio (worth €24,000):

I have €5,500 invested in Bitcoin and I don’t include it in my main financial planning because I consider it a high-risk investment and assume I could lose it all. I plan to hold Bitcoin until it at least approaches my purchase price of €29k per coin, which I don’t expect to happen soon.

On Nordnet, my current portfolio are:

• €8,000 in an S&P 500 ETF
• €6,000 in a technology-focused S&P 500 ETF
• €4,000 in a gold ETF (currently down)
• €2,000 in an oil ETF (currently down)

For the monthly investment, I setup:

• €50 per month in commodities through my bank (AUAG)
• €100 per month in medium-risk assets (bond, yield A)
• €300 per month in emerging market
• €300 per month in ETF US tech
• €1100 per month in World ETF / IWDA

1. Do you think I should increase my monthly ETF investment to max €2,000? or lower it down?
2. Should I consider investing in other types of funds? I’m asking because I would really like to retire early. Considering the world is crazy at the moment, I don't know should I be more cautious or ambitious!
3. I set the target as 1M, though with 4% withdrawal I think 500k is also feasible to FIRE but the inflation is uncertain so I keep 1M, how do you think?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I am F34 with a 1 yo and a husband M37. I am aiming to reach FI to not have to be (fully) dependent on work or to do something that allows me to work half time only and long term also have a nice nest egg to leave to my children when my time comes hoping later rather than sooner.

Currently we live in NL and we are high earners, I have invested about 510k euro in stocks and ETFs. He also have some investments but around half of mine. Our expenses and spending are low which is beneficial also due to our natural frugal lifestyle. However I feel like I am burned out and would like to take a career break but staying in this country eats a heavy amount out of our investments every year.. did any one managed to FIRE or have a career break without ruining their fire journey in this country? how about other EU countries?

Please share your advices with me!
I (31F) invest monthly 150€ via Trade Republic.
100€ in FTSE All World USD (Acc)
50€ in Core MSCI World USD (Acc)
Also have 161€ in Nasdaq 100 USD (Acc), but I don’t invest there monthly.
In total I have 1615€ invested (started one year ago), but I feel like I am not getting anywhere.
I have 24000€ (non interest account) in savings and a salary of 2600€ net.
I need around 1600€ monthly for expenses.

Would you suggest that I invest more money or diversify more my portfolio?

Please be as specific as possible because I am a beginner and I am still learning about investing.
Thank you in advance!

My husband and I are in our late twenties and are about to reach financial independence within the next year. He is also about to become a commercial pilot and has kept telling me I won’t have to work anymore as soon as we reach financial independence and he has his first pilot job.

(Nearly) Reaching financial independence has been a lot of work (working late nights & weekends next to full time job/schooling) + lots of saving and living frugally + lots of luck involved. We are basically achieving this through real estate (planning, building, renovating mostly by ourselves).

I have been working in consulting for over two years and ever since we started our real estate project I have steadily been losing interest in my job, especially client projects. I have always loved learning and have been a top student and enjoyed working, but this corporate environment is so incredibly boring. I am sitting in meetings, people use all kinds of management language and I just can’t get myself to care or even listen sometimes. I feel like none of it matters and just creates more work, which means more people will spend more time in front of the screen all day. I like the internal stuff in my company more compared to client projects. Client projects just always means new people, new projects, which then means complex, boring input I have to read and what I learn brings me personally zero value. I also haven’t climbed the career ladder really & I honestly don’t care because I don’t see the benefit of earning maybe 5% more for a lot more responsibility, being expected to work when sick and never being completely off. I have tried to suppress these feelings, but it just grows stronger and stronger and I don’t enjoy my Mondays to Fridays anymore. It’s a really good job relatively to other jobs - 90% remote, friendly co-workers, pay and work life balance is ok for consulting. I know I have a really good job, but at the same time, i feel extremely unmotivated and I am scared that the outlook of FIRE actually makes me lazy and will make me lose my job. I have always thought of myself about enjoying having a career but it has been the opposite lately and made me rethink everything.
I wonder if I could get interested in my job again or if I should just risk it all once we reach FIRE and do exactly what I want (starting a business and also leaning more into music) even if it doesn’t pay?

My background (bachelor and master’s) is in business, communication & human behaviour.

I appreciate some advice! Thanks!
TL;DR: Bored by my job in consulting in my late twenties. Feel like none of it matters, which makes me unmotivated and I could risk losing my job. Worried that financial independence has caused this.

I’m M32, with a decent job somewhere in Europe earning about 4k€ after tax. I live in a very expensive country so my costs are high, usually around 3k€ a month (mainly due to ridiculous rent prices). I currently have about 30k invested (mostly in ETFs, small part in BTC), so I’m very much at the beginning of my fire journey. I’ve been trying to run the math to understand if it’s even possible to fire with these numbers and it seems unlikely, especially if I want to buy a flat at some point in the future as well. There will be some inheritance down the line but not soon and not a lot, probably around 150k-200k. I am also paying into mandatory and supplementary pension funds which I’ll be able to access after the age of 65. My FIRE number goal is 1,4M hopefully by mid/late 50ties. I think I might need to increase my savings rate to be able to get there. I am potentially also considering moving to a cheaper EU country and lowering my fire goal down the line if I won’t manage to get to 1,4M. I would really appreciate any advice/insights/tips/opinions on how to get there in my situation from other experienced FIREies in Europe? :)

Is ti possible to 'leanfire' in Europe on €700k?

Sometimes I get perplexed, even disheartened by mostly American subs "3m NW. Can I Fire in Spain?" (I can't even believe they're real, or maybe just looking for an ego massage?)

And also most of the posts seem to discourage people and are always extremely negative.

"500k? Not enough. Wait until 700k. It'll be more comfortable."

"700k? I wouldn't just yet. Work a few more years and that 700k will be 1 million."

"1 million. Close, but I'd be targeting 1.5 million to be safe"

Anyway in this case:

38.

Single.

No health insurance costs.

650k invested. 50k cash buffer.

Possible? Anybody doing it or have done it?

Background:
29M, born and raised in eastern europe started with 0 like most of us. Was always into FIRE and increasing income - moved to western europe -> hustled -> got a degree -> got a good job ->fast-track promotions etc.

Assets: +/-180k euro
- 156k equity at beta +/-1 (also +25% margin on top [strategy from: "Life-Cycle Investing and Leverage: Buying Stock on Margin Can Reduce Retirement Risk."])
- 18k cash (recently vested stocks to make a car purchase)
- +/- 6k in receivables (deposits, lending money to relatives friens etc.)

Income range:
- 125-135k euro mixed with stocks (lets simplify: +/- 6700e-7200e net with variation).

Expenses (+/-): 3900e. Saving +/-3000e
- Rent: 1350e (small studio)
- Food/eating out: 900e (I cook but also eat out)
- Going out: 400e (bars, friend gatherings, pool)
- Clothing/Accessories: 300e
- Hobbies / Gym: 200e
- Experiences: 700e (Traveling/Vacations/Music Festivals:This is what i always lived for - almost non-negotiable)
- Transportation: +/- 100e

Recently, as I am approaching 30 I have realized there is a discrepancy between the lifestyle I am looking for vs what I have "normalized" in order to optimize savings. I want to upgrade an apartment, and I want to buy a car.

Upgrading an apartment - I don't feel comfortable inviting over, I don't have enough space to practice other hobbies (Piano / DJing etc.). Looking for increase in 600 euro on accomodation.

Car - It can allow me to live in more rural areas, get better apartment. I would also like to start setting up audio/laser systems for events and car is necessary for this. That's another +/- 400 euro/month in TCO (depreciation, maintenance, fuel, parking, excl. opportunity cost of investing).

If change my lifestyle, I reduce my savings 3000e -> 2000e. That's 12000e a year lost. It's such a huge psychological barrier to go through I am having a very hard time accepting the decision. I am thinking to start saving more on things like food and going out, to make the change less psychologically hurtful.

I am looking for perspectives of those who have been contemplating similar decision in the past. How did you go about it - what decision did you make and do you regret it ?

Note: Purchasing apartment is not an option in my situation. Rental yield is one of the lowest in europe and i am not sure whether i will stay where i live for long.

I opened an account with them a couple months ago, thinking of taking advantage of the 5% interest on cash they were giving for a limited time (it was supposed to be until today)

Now, to my surprise, they have extended it indefinitely. Seems like a great place to have emergency money parked.

It’s protected up to 22000€ and transfers are instant (I have tried them myself).

Is this a too good to be true thing or you guys are also using it to squeeze a little extra from your emergency cash?

Invite link: https://sharetext.io/a366fvlx

Very new to finance and investing. I’ve heard VWCE and chill might be a good option?

I know there is a lot of personal element, taste etc, but I was wondering if there is a top list of places to go to start feom with common elements:

- education options for kids
- safe
- better for Fire than Europe itself

Note: I am from Spain

I’m trying to choose a broker for long-term, passive investing in broad market index funds/ETFs.
My plan is to invest around $5k upfront, then $300–500 every month.
I’d prefer to invest in USD, although EUR is perfectly fine if it makes more sense.
I’m currently considering:
Degiro – I’ve had an account for a while but never really used it. It was my original choice, but after reading quite a few mixed reviews here, I figured I’d ask before committing. 😄
IBKR – Seems like the strongest option overall. Good reputation, interest on uninvested cash, wide range of investments, and it appears to be the go-to recommendation for many people.
Trading 212 – Don’t know much about it, but it seems solid. It offers a large selection of stocks, although I’ll probably only be buying ETFs.
Are there any other brokers I should consider?
For those of you investing for the long term in Europe, which broker did you choose, and why?

Anyone have any good reccomendations or sources for research or strategies that are more focused on (hard) "asset light" living or FIRE? It feels like the wider (or more vocal) approach here is for people to own a home as part of their FIRE journey (whether that be soely part of their wealth accumulation journey or specifically part of the RE targets). I understand some of the thinking behind this (to have "shelter" locked down and "paid for" in your fire calculations), but after a few decades of property ownership I increasingly feel like I want an alternative as I get closer to retirement. Some of the things shaping this feeling:

1. even a fully paid off property has substantial ongoing costs, some of which are not easily predictable or manageable;

2. the return on investment for property often lags that as the "average" return of leading indices or ETFs;

3. even when asset appreciation for property exceeds that of other investments, it is much more difficult to tap into that appreciation (liquidity);

4. for a single primary residence, you then tie yourself to a specific location which may end up having any number of financial consequences (changes in taxes, faster inflation...etc).

5. the balance of living costs and quality of life seem to be shifting faster than ever in the modern day (places that are a realtive "value" seem to change at a quicker pace than I would have thought).

...and maybe it's just me, but it feels like there is an increasing tilt against the "physical property" owning class in many EU countries, with increased fiscal demands on anyone owning a home.

Anyhow, this has all been a long way of saying I increasingly feel like the flexibility and independence of renting may better fit my FIRE goals. It would allow me to go where living costs are lower compared to similar or higher "quality" of living while also giving me greater "hedging" flexibility (I understand one other attractive part of property is that it is often a decent hedge against big financial market swings; however, if such a large portion of your net worth is tied up in such an illiquid asset, one might be forced to swallow the effects of those swings on their liquid portfolio more).

I'm curious if there are any good resources that have looked at things from this angle.