r/SafeSpaceofVox

This is a rant, if that's not obvious from the title.

It seems to me that, whenever I post to this community anything about criticizing or not liking Valentino, it gets downvoted at least once. I just don't get it. I understand that a lot of people here like StaticMoth, but is it really that surprising that someone in a community dedicated to woobifying Vox would dislike a notorious abuser who makes Vox look bad and drags him into his drama constantly? People have no problem pointing out that Alastor is bad for Vox, but somehow the idea that Valentino could also be equally bad for Vox (and therefore subject to the same criticism) gets ignored or downplayed constantly even here. If the idea is that "Vox should only be surrounded by people who truly love and care for him," then how does that square with him being with Valentino? Keep in mind: this is the guy who has a habit of throwing things at Vox for extremely petty reasons, and recently ripped his head off and was PRAISED for it by the narrative. By all appearances, he is abusive toward Vox, whether his fans like it or not.

I just don't understand why the people who like Valentino and/or StaticMoth can't just content themselves with the Valentino Cult and the StaticMoth sections of the regular Vox Cult. Or just ignore comments from people here who don't like Valentino and/or StaticMoth (I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one). It's already hard enough to be on the regular Vox Cult as someone who ONLY likes Vox and NOT the other Vee's (especially Valentino), without the same attitude bleeding into a community that exists to woobify Vox specifically and no one else.

I’m just wondering because I love Staticdust and don’t know if I’ll get hate here if I say I love it.

So something that's always bothered me about season 2 is how it approached certain political topics through Vox. The blunt fascist references in Vox Populi and Vox Dei really take me out. Not only is it just not very clever word play, it feels strange with his character. I am not saying Vox is this very progressive guy, he IS a capitalist, but he is still meant to be forward thinking. Or at least forward thinking enough where I just don't buy the idea of him as a stand in for figures like Trump. Whatever internalized 1950s shit he has going on I just don't think of him like this. I remember Viv's weird tweets after the last election where she gave away what they'd be doing with Vox. That always felt odd to me because she made it seem like it was all accidental despite literally giving him lines like "make Hell great again". Regardless this all feels rather insisted upon. I'm trying to think of the best way to say this without sounding like I'm desperately trying to soften Vox. I just think forcing these fascist ideas onto him has always felt strange. The references are brief and superficial so if you just rewrote them then I don't really think you'd draw this conclusion. Unfortunately its all there and fans don't forget it. It's likely a big reason why so many people are unsympathetic towards Vox and think he's the most evil character in the show. And if only it was just this in terms of the strange politics with his character.

I've been saying it's a missed opportunity to not center season 2 on Charlie and Vox in a bigger way. One big area that this sticks out in is actually Vox's entire motivation. I think it could have been so interesting if instead of Vox lying about wanting to empower sinners he actually meant it. Have him do a lot of the same things, berate the angels, discredit the hotel, kidnap Lucifer, blow up the gates, but have it come from a place that isn't a self serving lie. Vox actually makes good arguments during season 2, but because he doesn't mean any of it the show is basically saying not to put value in them. He literally sings about being the consequence to Heaven's actions, but he's right. And it applies just as well to Lucifer too. Look, objectively speaking Lucifer is an awful king. I like his character, but he is a bad king. Even if Lilith ran everything and was behind the caste system developing or other key problems in Hell, his decision not to do anything still makes him a bad leader. I get it, he's depressed, had his powers stunted, and never wanted this in the first place. He's still responsible for an entire realm of people who he failed though. Per Charlie he approved the exterminations and he has yet to show remorse for that. The choice not to act is still in fact a choice, that's literally why Pentious went to Hell. If nobody in charge is providing a solution and even approved your own suffering then of coarse you'll flock to the first guy that says he'll do something about it.

How much stronger would this have been if Vox was just fed up with Lucifer and the monarchy and decided to take matters into his own hands? Not purely out of selfishness, but because he hates what is happening and believed he could actually do things a better way. Then you could have the clash between him and Charlie be about a difference in how they approach the same problem. Her pacifism verses his revolution. Charlie could truly be challenged on her methods, something Adam could have done but didn't. This could have been a very mature and fascinating way to further her and Vox as foils. That isn't what we got though. Everything Vox said was just bullshit to sway the public so he could advance his own selfish goals and become God. He didn't mean any of it so I guess we don't need to take any of that seriously beyond the fact that it hurt Charlie's feelings for a week. And even there we see him use hypnosis on the public which just undermines the need to do all this in the first place. I know Vox is a selfish character, but he's a character. His actions are choices being made by writers and I think it could have been great if they wrote him like this. He doesn't need to be totally wholesome in this scenario, him assuming he's right to lead entire realms still speaks to his own arrogance. You could still have him pushing the other Vees away or being aggressive in how he handles Charlie. You could still make him spiral and come away with the message that he lost control in the end, done in by his own hubris. There are ways I think this could work while still keeping his characterization in mind, but its not what they did and the message I take from the real story is really unpleasant to me.

The implication that armed resistance is immoral and a tool used by charlatans to lead people into fascism is a terrible message. And if I'm not to take that away from season 2 then why make Vox be the only one promoting resistance just for it to be complete bullshit? What else am I supposed to think of this? Charlie harps on about how wrong he is, but never interrogates why the public would even choose that option over redemption. Him standing up to the angels is presented as menacing and that we should feel bad for them. The sinners are quite literally brainwashed by Vox. It's obvious the show pushes non violence a lot. Just look at how Lute was shot down by Emily for wanting to retaliate against Vox's declaration of war. Lute is actually correct that they can't let this happen and do nothing, but Emily scolds her about how they need to be "the good guys" and the show doesn't challenge this. Yes let's all take leadership advice from Lil Miss Gift Basket. I like Emily, but this was ridiculous. What this tells me is Viv is taking things in a more black and white way than I would like her to. We are still challenged to have empathy for amoral characters, but on complex topics like this it's very simplistic. Sure they give us fight scenes, but the idea of resolving Hell's problems through force definitely feels discouraged. We still need to have the hotel be the real answer. Why else would they associate the concept of fighting back against the system with bad actors only looking out for themselves?

I know, I know, accept that the show has different goals in mind. It doesn't have to do things the way I'd want. I get that. I'm not even sure Viv wants Hazbin Hotel to be dissected like this. Those tweets I was referring to gave me the impression she just isn't thinking of these things in the moment. A lot of the answers we've been getting to burning questions have felt rather small compared to the expectations. Trust me though, I don't like analyzing the show like I am here. I do in fact enjoy watching season 2 and just try not to get too hung up on the politics. It's just not only do I see a major missed opportunity to tell a deeper story, in the end I'm being fed a message that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And I don't know what any of this could mean for Vox's future.

Slight vent about the show and the character ||

Like, can he just leave that fucking deer alone?

He almost killed himself over that stupid deer! (As Valentino said, thats the only thing I’m agreeing with from him. Plus, Vox is way cuter with Val tbh). Vox would still be whole if he didn’t strangle and play with his own wires just to get the most out of him.

This man has been head over heels for him for the entire of season 1 & 2, or 70 years to be exact.

Hell would be a lot more peaceful without the obsession. I feel like that is one of the main focuses of the seasons. I feel like we just need more Valentino representation (it’s a good thing he has a bigger role in season 3 according to Viv!).

I just want Vox to be DONE with Alastor. Even if the rejection from him makes up most of his personality (aside politics, heaven shit). Him leaning towards Alastor as his only purpose does disappoint me for his character though.

I respect all of your opinions. Let’s just not harass each other or to cause overwhelm directly to the OP in general.

So, I made a post about this a while back, but I relate to Vox on a personal level because I had an experience in real life that was similar to what happened with him and Alastor in S2E4.

The amount of people I see defending Alastor's actions, saying that Vox deserved it or that they found it funny, is really troubling to me. Whenever I engage with parts of the fandom outside of the VoxCult and this sub, there always seem to be a lot of people defending Alastor, making fun of Vox for being pathetic, or saying it was his own fault for asking in the first place.

It's something that makes it really hard for me to engage with the fandom at all because I don't experience much empathy for Vox from other fans. Whenever I bring up my personal experience and try to draw the connection, it either gets dismissed as "not the same," even though it was very similar, or I've even been accused of deliberately trying to manipulate people into agreeing with me by bringing up my own experiences.

I'm glad this sub and the VoxCult sub exist, but I find it very sad that I seemingly can't engage with other parts of the fandom without having those experiences thrown back at me.

What I don't understand is why so many people seem to have no empathy for Vox whatsoever, while at the same time showing a great deal of empathy for Alastor when he gets dragged along or hurt by Vox. In my experience, there's a real double standard there, and it's sad to see.

Anyway, I just needed to vent a little. I'm still glad this sub and the VoxCult sub exist so that I can at least engage with a small part of the fandom.