r/TheFirstLaw

I remember Joe stating that he doesn't intend for the series to have a conclusive ending and that it will keep going and leaving room for more events to occur. I had thought the series was to be a trilogy of trilogies but I guess he'd rather just keep building off of previous stories for the rest of his life.

It irks me but I kinda get it. Even though this is fantasy, I guess he wants the series to be realistic in the sense that real life never concludes, it just keeps going.

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1. Last Argument Of Kings
2. Before They Are Hanged
3. The Heroes
4. The Trouble With Peace
5. The Blade Itself
6. The Wisdom Of Crowds
7. Red Country
8. A Little Hatred
9. Best Served Cold

They’re all really good, so it was hard to rank them, but I thought about it a lot and this is what I came up with. Let me know your own rankings!

1.Wisdom Of Crowds was a bad book , not a bad Abercrombie book or a bad first law book but just straight up poorly written

2.Rike was a Mary Sue who unlike Savine or Monza has neither an interesting personality or shows any true skill , most of her "victories" require the plot to just lobotomize her enemies

3. Jezal is not a coward , he had no way to oppose Bayaz and anyone would have done the same in his position

Just finished RC, and that ending was unexpected.
I spent 2/3 of the book looking for shivers on every single corner!

At some point there was this thug without an Eye back in crease after they came back from the mountains, and I was 100% sure it was him, but it wasn’t making any sense!

Then when they get to the farm at the end, I knew that Shivers would be there, but it was Cosca! (Oh my… he’s dead!)

Finally, they arrive at square deal, and I knew that Shivers would find them, and he actually does! I look at the remaining pages, there is not enough pages for a fight! Joe would never rush such an important fight! What is going on? I don’t understand!!!!

And he smiles and goes away? What? What???

Just as the title says. I got a dark mark tattoo a long time ago when I was young that I would like to cover up but don’t really know how. Would love something first law inspired to cover it up

Hey, so I’m in a weird spot and could use some advice from people who know the series.

I started The First Law a while ago and ended up getting a really strong crush on Ardee. Like, properly attached. I’m a pretty softhearted,depressed, lonely guy (22, never had a girlfriend, pretty isolated growing up) and I have this pattern where my heart latches onto fictional girls hard. It happened with Ardee and it got bad enough that I had to stop reading because every scene with her and Jezal was making me jealous and miserable.

I know she’s not written as some perfect love interest. I know their whole thing is messy and she’s kind of toxic/self-sabotaging. But my brain didn’t care. The more I read, the worse the attachment got, and now just thinking about picking the books back up makes me nervous it’ll all come flooding back.

I really want to finish the trilogy (Glokta is my favourite by a mile) but I need to kill this crush first so I can actually enjoy it again without the jealousy and the spiral.

Has anyone else dealt with getting too attached to a character like this? Any advice on how to detach and read them as just a character again? Or should I just leave the books alone for a long time?

Appreciate any thoughts. Feeling a bit stupid about the whole thing but figured this was the best place to ask.

So in every book I’ve ever read I have trouble imagining unique characters in my head and creating my own image of them from scratch based on the descriptions so I always reach for something tangible to compare them to. In ASOIAF I started reading after the second season had aired so I had the TV show actors to picture in my head for the most part, who I thought suited each character wonderfully. For ones I didn’t know, I would find an actor whose mannerisms and appearance most closely matched the character and picture that actor since I really had trouble conjuring characters up from my mind. Say one thing about Dr_JohnP, say he lacks a good imagination.

With the First Law series (I’m only on the second book of the first trilogy so far) I started this way with each character. I would find an actor I know who seemed to fit the character best and I would picture them in my mind. For Logen I had an exact actor from a bunch of different series I loved and I just pictured him missing his middle finger. With characters I had trouble thinking of an actor for I would look up fan art and use the one I liked the most in my head. What’s interesting and wholly unique for me in any book I’ve ever read, is that despite starting out picturing actors, as I continued to read and listen to Steven Pacey’s excellent narration I began to actually create my own unique and original image of each character from my mind for the first time ever really. I realized the actor I had chosen for Logen was far too handsome and “actorly” to actually suit Ninefingers in the book, and so slowly over time I crafted my own image of Logen and The Bloody Nine. Over time I have now created my own wholly unique vision for each and every character I’ve come across. It’s really crazy that this series has character writing so good that for the first time it destroyed my propensity to steal the image of a famous actor or a tangible image and instead create my own!

Has anyone had an experience like this? Or am I the only asshole who can’t think of something original myself? 😂

"Little Lion Man" by Mumford & Sons came on my Spotify playlist yesterday, and I'm convinced it was actually written by Jurand, after what happened in Sipani. Can you convince me otherwise? No.

Weep for yourself, my man
You'll never be what is in your heart
Weep, little lion man
You're not as brave as you were at the start

Rate yourself and rake yourself
Take all the courage you have left
And waste it on fixing all the problems
That you made in your own head

But it was not your fault but mine
And it was your heart on the line
I really fucked it up this time
Didn't I, my dear?
Didn't I, my -

Tremble for yourself, my man
You know that you have seen this all before
Tremble, little lion man
You'll never settle any of your scores

Your grace is wasted in your face
Your boldness stands alone among the wreck
Now learn from your mother or else
Spend your days biting your own neck

But it was not your fault but mine
And it was your heart on the line
I really fucked it up this time
Didn't I, my dear?

But it was not your fault but mine
And it was your heart on the line
I really fucked it up this time
Didn't I, my dear?
Didn't I, my dear?

Ah, ah
Ah, ah
Ah, ah

But it was not your fault but mine
And it was your heart on the line
I really fucked it up this time
Didn't I, my dear?

But it was not your fault but mine
And it was your heart on the line
I really fucked it up this time
Didn't I, my dear?
Didn't I, my dear?

Who is your favorite character from The First Law Trilogy and why? (I'm only talking about the first three books, of course)

I'll start. Sand Dan Glokta and Bayaz.

I so desperately want the books to be adapted, but I know it’s a pipe dream right now. In the meantime, is there a TV show or movie you think resembles the books that could scratch that itch?

Bayaz isn't a character in this story; Bayaz IS THE STORY!

If you think about it, the very title of the saga (The First Law) takes on a whole new meaning at the end of the trilogy:

It's not Euz's magical law on demons. The true "First Law" of the world is the one Bayaz himself pronounces to Ferro in Chapter 53:

"Power justifies any means. This is my first law, and also my last. The only one I recognize."

He's a shocking and terrifying villain precisely because he's already won before the story even begins:

He Controls the Economy: He owns Valint & Balk, the bank that keeps kings, nobles, merchants, and even the Inquisition on a leash.

He Controls Politics: He founded the Union, has always chosen its kings, decides its "ministers" and generals, and uses its laws at will.

He controls War and Magic: He possesses the Seed, manipulates Iron, turning it into a weapon to hurl against Khalul! He has transformed all the protagonists into his personal pawns.

In almost all traditional fantasy stories, the Wise Wizard helps the heroes defeat the Dark Lord to restore peace and freedom. Here, we discover that the Dark Lord already sits atop the tower, wearing the Wise Wizard's robe, and has transformed the entire world into his personal chessboard. No one can beat him because everyone plays by his rules and with his money.

Wow. Possibly the best villain I've ever seen/read. The fact that Abercrombie doesn't delve into Khalul, Mamun, etc. now makes sense. We've always had the real Villain beside us, drinking tea!

I think I finally understand the meaning of grimdark fantasy. The ending of Game of Thrones feels like a fairy tale compared to these books.

Never thought I’d feel more sympathy for Jezal than for Glokta. I felt so sorry for Glokta in TBI.

The moments of heroism and brotherhood between Logen and Jezal and West feel like distant memories now.

I am sad for these characters. I know I will eventually get to Best Served Cold, The Heroes, Red Country and beyond, but I think I need a pick-me-up/palette cleanser first.

What is your interpretation of what becomes of Ferro Maljinn at the end of the saga?

I think she's become exactly like Tolomei, but with great willpower that translates into resistance to demons. Potentially one of the most dangerous creatures in the entire universe; Bayaz's ultimate weapon against Kahlul.

And you know what the catch is? It's as if Bayaz has given her strength, and therefore revenge, but Ferro remains his pawn.

Sure, a pawn who may be harboring revenge against her master, but a pawn nonetheless.

Do you think Bayaz had anything to do with Dow's attempted assassination of Logen?

I was thinking back to the final part of Last Argument of Kings and a doubt came to mind: do you think Bayaz could be, at least indirectly, behind Black Dow's attempted assassination of Logen?

The thing that raised my doubt was the last meeting between Bayaz and Logen. Bayaz already knows about Calder and Scale's situation (and therefore what's happening around Logen) and, in fact, promises Logen his help. Shortly thereafter, however, Dow makes his move against him.

The timing seems rather suspicious to me.

Three possibilities come to mind:

Bayaz has absolutely nothing to do with it, and Dow simply wants Logen dead for his own reasons.

Bayaz knew Dow would try to kill him and simply decided not to intervene.

Bayaz manipulated the situation indirectly, perhaps by providing information to Dow or somehow pushing him to act against Logen.

The third is obviously much more speculative, but it would be perfectly in line with Bayaz's approach: manipulating people and events without necessarily exposing himself.

What puzzles me most is precisely why Bayaz promised to help Logen if he was willing to let him die shortly thereafter. It could have been a sincere promise at the time, or Bayaz simply decided that if Logen survived, he would still be useful, while if he died, it wouldn't be a problem.

Am I reading too much into the timing of events, or do you really think there's evidence to suggest that Bayaz played a role in Logen's attempted assassination?

What a ride it has been.

I picked up The Devils completely randomly and loved Joe’s writing style so naturally bought TBI. I haven’t looked back and have read the entire series from there.

So far I’d have to say AOM is the better trilogy but this may be recency bias. Each book for me has seemingly got better than the last. The standalone books were just fantastic and each having its own genre and feel.

I’ve read along to the audiobooks and Steven Pacey deserves all the flowers for his work on Joe’s books.

No idea what I’m going to do when I’ve finished TWOC…there’s The Great Change but really don’t like the idea of reading this digitally and struggling to find a hard copy anywhere online. I’m tempted to have a custom print made.

What did everyone else do post TFL law ride?

My ranking of the short stories, from most to least favorite:

1. The Fool Jobs
2. Made a Monster
3. Hell
4. Two’s Company
5. Small Kindnesses
6. Yesterday, Near a Village Called Barden
7. Three’s a Crowd
8. Tough Times all Over
9. Skipping Town
10. Some Desperado
11. A Beautiful Bastard
12. Wrong Place, Wrong Time
13. Freedom

• “He looked like a clenched fist” is hilarious as a description of Gorst.
• It’s amazing how similar pre-torture Glokta is to early Jezal. They’re both pompous assholes looking to make themselves bigger by putting everyone else down. The main difference being that Glokta was actually competent (at least as a swordsman).
• With how OP Javre is, I really want to know who/what could have fucked her up so bad in Westport.
• Shev reminds me a lot of Temple. Cowardly, but well meaning. And they both say “Oh God,” a lot. Shev has more of an edge to her though. And she really leveled up in those last two chapters, on some assassins creed shit.
• The chapter with Craw and co was one of the funniest in the series. Everyone bounces off each other perfectly. When Craw’s mind was wandering while they infiltrated the village, I couldn’t help but relate as a person with ADHD.
• Temple’s chapter was a standout. Very serious chapter in a rather comedic book. But it perfectly captured why Cadia was such an influential presence in Temple’s life. I admired Cadia’s approach to religion/God, that one always has a choice. It’s a breath of fresh air. So many characters in the series lament their lot in life saying “I had no choice,” or the like. Cadia rejects that, and stands on his convictions. It especially stood out to me in contrast to Jubear in Red Country, who explicitly used God as an excuse to say all his actions were preordained. Also, “I would have done it for any one of them” had so much aura.
• The Barden chapter set during The Heroes was nice, but I was more invested in that Northman protecting his kids than I was in the soldiers. I teared up when he was holding his daughter, unable to let her go even as he’s urging her to run. Again, Abercrombie gets me to care immensely about characters that I barely know for only a short amount of time.
• It seems a big part of this collection is about humanizing the nameless characters that we would never think about otherwise. We don’t think about the unnamed characters who live, and fight, and die on the margins while our heroes(?) partake in all kinds of adventures. But when we get their PoV, we see that these characters, Wrongside, Anna, Pendle, etc. have lives and personalities just as deep as any one of our main characters. They’re humanized, and now we have to reckon with the fact that so many people just like them suffer because of the events set in motion by main characters like Gorst or Monza.
• It was a novelty to hear Abercrombie voice a chapter, but Freedom also reminded me just how great a job Pacey does with these books. I missed his voice during that chapter.
• It’s good that we got to see Logen in his… prime, as Bethod’s right hand. It’s one thing to hear Logen lament his past misdeeds, but seeing it in real-time, from Bethod’s perspective no less, is something else. Logen really is monstrous in that last chapter. The way he killed/mutilated Rattleneck’s son was unlike anything we’d seen in the series so far.
• That last chapter also made me look at Bethod differently. We never really got much time with him in the First Law. After a brief appearance in TBI, he doesn’t show up till LAOK, and that’s just for a few chapters before Logen kills him. He’s not such a boogeyman here, doesn’t seem anymore fearsome than other northmen, less so even. It’s fascinating to learn more about his and Logen’s dynamic: Bethod says not to do something rash/violent, Logen does said rash/violent thing, Bethod reaps the ill-gotten rewards but silently resents Logen for it, Logen feels justified and emboldened to continue with violence and escalation. While I don’t buy that one man “made” the other into a monster, there was certainly a viscous cycle. Honestly, after reading this chapter, I can’t say I blame Bethod for betraying Logen. The man was an animal. If anything, I’m surprised he had the courage to try it, given how unstoppable Logen can be.
• Going back to LAOK, I wonder if Logen’s talk of peace in that book was modeled after Bethod’s attempts at peace in Sharp Ends.
• I wonder, how differently would we as an audience receive Logen in The First Law trilogy if the last chapter of SH was instead the first chapter of TBI?

Just finished reading red country and loved it. But one character I was intrigued by at the first mention of actually being referred to as a "r" word. Later referred to as an idiot he was the one deciple of the original preacher for the Fellowship. After Temple becomes Fellowship pracher I remember that guy is still around (the idiot) but reflecting back I'm afraid I missed what happened to that poor fellow.