r/TheMindIlluminated

A big thing here and in meditation in general is noticing a thought and then letting it pass and returning to the breath. But i don't get it becuase when is a thought ever really going away? Even in my best sessions, when I focus on the breath I notice that my thoughts are still there but they are just less nebulous/broad and are narrowed to a sharper band/signal and no longer dominant, but they are still there??

I've been training for last 6-8 months or so with the muse headband for periods of weeks and without muse for periods. Even when it says I'm super focused I'm usually still thinking? I've only been able to actually stay completely with the breath and literally nothing else for max like 2 seconds, mayyybe 3; and this has only happened a handful of times throughout the past year.

I've noticed that people will just say 'notice or observe the thought and then let it go and you're back left with the breath,' then another will come, and on it repeats, until you get better. But its so cloudy that how do you notice a thought and then return? I get it when you are lost in thought and its been some minutes and your engrossed in a singular tangent, then once you notice its easy to pullout and return to breath. But then more thoughts come and I can't return to the breath so easily as everyone is saying it is until I've found myself 2 mins later coming out of another engrossed line of reasoning or daydream.

What I'm trying to do here is clarify and separate 'notice and return' moments to usual moments along a session; like when your actively meditating vs when you've caught yourself lost for a while. Recently I was in the sauna that might help explain what I mean by this.

The way others explain it and the way I now see/experience it is this 'notice and return' behaves just like the quantum observer effect in quantum theory. Where once you realize, notice, or observe the thought / train of thought, you are metacognitively noticing and that disrupts the spontaneous momentum of said thought. Eg the executive control network (observer) cannot really be on at the same time as the default mode network, so the dmn gets cut off when the other region comes on. Thus you are easily able to return to breath/nothingness.

For me I find this very hard to keep my executive network on its feet or sharp as a tack to go through noticing and getting rid of all the thoughts. On certain days its a little easier but I was never able to fully do it. Certain days like I am more focused during the session likely due to the amalgamation of infinite factors in a day that contributes to 'off' days or focused days; maybe I was just working out, or studying w binaural beats, or I didn't go on instagram/tiktok this morning etc etc. But today in the sauna things went a bit different (recently been getting into almost daily sauna, its gas, you all need to try it).

In essence, previously, in that handful of perfect condition days I found that either my mind is not as cloudy or I'm sharper/quicker or whatever, and its easy to stay kinda on the breath (like I explain in first parag). But in a special moment in the sauna, I actually observe all the thoughts flying around in my head, and subsequently they can disappear and I return to breath. This happens about 2 to 3 times every 500 ms I would estimate. The problem is this clarity rarely happens and I only really discovered it bc I was in the sauna and decided to try and stay in past 50 mins and I had an almost unhealthy amount of adrenaline firing towards the end so that my alertness/prefrontal/executive networks could actually start tracking thoughts. Here I would be able to meta notice the thought/line of reasoning, then return to breath, then another comes and I would be able to notice and return, but yea I can never truly focus on just my breath becuase thoughts keep arising, and I keep having to notice them, which, yes, distinguishes it. But by the time its distinguished, as I'm returning to breath, usually another has already started!

Figuring out what was happening on such a micro level with this much analytical clarity took a long time over these months. Is this something others are experiencing that can help me with tackling? am I making sense? I had to give such nuance so people would understand that I'm encountering a problem that is not as simple as the answer 'notice and return to breath' allows. For most of the time however I couldn't really understand it or word it so people could help/understand

The suana gave me a sharper clarity, but usually my thoughts are like an almost never ending stream or storm if that makes sense? like my thoughts are also often cascading/overlapping rather than just rapid firing in the sauna. And I can never notice them fast enough or with clarity so as to then return to the breath. And I always always end up just mindwandering; across months of practice, or going into the state I explain in para 1. But in the sauna I was able to keep up so to speak; I also think the sauna moment was weathered (or possibly only could have happened) by me losing my phone. I had recently lost my phone and not gotten a new one and also moved to a new place w/out wifi so for 2.5 weeks I could only get internet access if I biked to the library so it was a curse but also a blessing since my already overloaded adhd ass wasn't drowning in the never-ending online information overload.

Anyways, sorry for such a longwinded post I usually take forever when trying to explain a point. I guess this was more to better help me internalize what is happening and doing it in public always helps.

TLDR
How do I get better at noticing and letting thoughts disappear so I can stay on the breath? It's super hard and I'm struggling to just sit with the breath and only the breath. How many times do you 'notice and return' each second? Even in my best sessions, I still have thoughts continuously running in the background, never gone, they are just more attenuated, in both senses of the definition. (they are sharper signal and the breath is more dominant).

I’m currently on stage 3 roughly. My breathing is not shallow as such but it is rather gentle and soft. Ive always been annoyed by breathing loud, so when I was younger I made it so that very soft breathing is natural.

My question is roughly regarding the following of the breath. If I am breathing softer, I am often more aware of what’s going on, intro and extrospectively. However, the softer I breathe the less I am able to follow the breath and often I am only just able to note the sensations of stopping/starting each breath without much between. Is this a problem? Should I be breathing stronger? If I shouldn’t, am I still meant to really just focus on my breath? Is it better to instead just focus on being aware of it as well as my introspection?

I'm new to this particular approach but decided to iron out the basics this way. I've established a practice according to the book.

I'm currently entering Stage 3 practice. I was practicing "connecting" and "following" for the first time. After a very short while of practicing (first third of the session) I had good concentration while maintaining peripheral awareness, when dream-like visions began to happen.

Example: I was still vaguely following my breath but it was definitely not the main focus anymore. In my mind, some sort of device appeared, the same way as when a dream starts. The device emitted a stream of water through a set of holes, but it was unfolding and changing. My mind became more and more engrossed, trying to solve the problem of getting the device into its original shape which it perceived to be its task.

Then, suddenly: This isn't what you're trying to do at all. You're not trying to fold or unfold this device. You're trying to pay attention to your breath. Then a second realization: There is no device to begin with!!

And I was back. I guess I was savoring that awareness of "waking up" like I was supposed to.

This is just one example, and in fact the second vision of that session, I just don't recall the first. (I'm kind of grateful for the nonsensical nature of the vision/dream because it made it easier to recognize it.)

The question is... is recognizing it for what it is enough? Savor the waking up and go on? Would something else help here as well?

Is this more common if one is a bit tired?

Thank you.

Hi everyone, I asked about my shallow breathing causing air hunger here 6 months ago. Since then, my deviated septum has troubled me more and I finally had septoplasty with turbinate reduction surgery 4 months ago. I'm not sure how to take it from here.

Now, I can breathe freely down to my diaphragm. It's a process and it's getting better month by month, as the doctor mentioned. I resumed my meditation, but since I've been used to shallow breathing for so long, I'm controlling my inhales down to the diaphragm during meditation, hoping it will create muscle memory over the next few months so I can stop controlling it. Otherwise, I am getting air hunger with the shallow breathing.

I understand that controlling the breath is not recommended in TMI, but I don’t see another option. I hope that by intentionally inhaling deeply into my diaphragm for at least 2-3 months, I will gradually adjust and make it free. Is this the right approach? Is there anything I might be missing?

Please advise. Thanks a lot.

Hello all I’m looking for help restarting my meditation practice.

I'm autistic and also have ADHD. The only time in my adult life where I felt like i was thriving and the barriers between me and other people fell away was when i was meditating 45 minutes a day on average under the TMI method.

My habit initially fell away after meditation stopped working after a very bad time at work and its been hard to work back up to that level again since despite me trying again after many years.

Any advise on how to rebuild my meditation practice? I have tried many times over the years

I am not sure if I am spinning the wheels or if having different focuses of attention is acceptable.

Obviously the breath is the most convenient as it is directly below where our consciousness seems to be, but I get some feelings of warmth and upward expansion from the root chakra also. Apart from that I use Dr David Hawkins' Letting Go technique and any feelings of internal discomfort, frustration or emotional pain can be easily focused on.

Thoughts on this?

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