r/Watches

I love high-accuracy non-mechanical watches and I am intrigued by modern Bulova and Accutron. Both are owned by Citizen.

These two watches have really caught my eye. The Bulova Jet Star has the precisionist movement, while the new Accutron Elevation has what they call a resonator movement. As far as I can tell, they are essentially the same, they both have a vibrating three-prong tuning fork at 262kHz, and both are super high accurate with a sweeping seconds hand.

They are both beautiful, but I am stunned by the new Elevation dial with that honeycomb pattern. It's a lot more expensive though - the Jet Star MSRP is $650 while the Elevation rings up at $1550.

Thoughts on these two watches or the brands in general?

Wanted to go outside of the box and pick up a complicated Franck Muller. I have always liked the more reasonably sized ones. I think a good deal of hate on the brand comes from a) valid criticism of how they mismanaged their product and b) resellers and 47th street guys not being able to make money off of it. I bought from someone who knows Franck very well, he told me he almost cries anytime he sees him because of how badly he messed his life up with the drugs, alcohol, and “three marriages.” TBH, I identify with messing your life up, I’m not a saint, and I am pretty empathetic to the human interest side of the story.

Also, totally separate from all that, i just think its a cool watch. Would like to hear what people think about it

GIRARD-PERREGAUX 1966 COLUMN-WHEEL CHRONOGRAPH

When the True Value of a Watch Lies Behind the Dial

Some watches make an immediate impression the moment you see them. Others require more time. You need to hold them in your hands, look more closely, and understand the story behind them before you begin to appreciate what truly makes them special.

The Girard-Perregaux 1966 Column Wheel Chronograph Ref. 49529 belongs to the latter category.

On our wrist today is a chronograph with a remarkably understated appearance. It carries the elegant design language characteristic of the 1966 collection: two classical sub dials, slender chronograph pushers, and almost nothing on the dial deliberately advertising the complexity hidden within.

No tourbillon. No perpetual calendar. No dial designed to immediately tell the person across the table that something special is happening inside. But turn the watch over.

Behind the sapphire crystal sits the GP03800 one of Girard Perregaux’s more fascinating, yet surprisingly overlooked, chronograph movements of the modern era.

And perhaps this is where the real story of this watch begins.

GIRARD-PERREGAUX AND THE CHRONOGRAPH QUESTION

Girard-Perregaux is a manufacture with a long history, yet for many years its chronographs did not necessarily rely on fully integrated chronograph movements.

Earlier examples within the 1966 collection, for instance, used the automatic GP3300 as a base movement combined with a Dubois-Dépraz chronograph module.

There is nothing inherently inferior about this solution. Modular chronographs have been and continue to be used by many respected manufacturers. But for those fascinated by mechanics, there is a significant distinction between adding a chronograph module to an existing movement and designing a calibre in which the chronograph is fundamentally part of its architecture.

In 2013, Girard-Perregaux presented its answer: Calibre GP03800

According to information published around its introduction, the project took approximately five years to develop.

The GP03800 is a manually wound, fully integrated chronograph movement, controlled by a column wheel and coupled through a horizontal or lateral clutch.

It is a decidedly traditional approach.
Not the simplest way to build a chronograph.
But arguably one of the most beautiful.

GP03800 : THE MAIN CHARACTER

Calibre GP03800 measures approximately 25.6 mm in diameter and 5.4 mm thick. It consists of 312 components and 31 jewels, operates at 28,800 vibrations per hour 4 Hz and offers approximately 58 hours of power reserve.

These are respectable specifications, but they are not what makes this movement particularly interesting.

What matters more is how it was constructed.

The GP03800 combines four characteristics highly prized in traditional chronographs:

- Manual winding.
- Integrated architecture.
- Column-wheel control.
- Horizontal clutch.

These are not merely terms designed to make a specification sheet more impressive.

They determine how the movement operates, how the chronograph feels to use, and perhaps most importantly, what the owner can actually see through the caseback.

COLUMN WHEEL: THE FEEL OF A CLASSICAL CHRONOGRAPH

At the heart of the chronograph control system is the column wheel.

Every time the Start, Stop or Reset pusher is pressed, the column wheel coordinates the levers responsible for the corresponding function.

From a manufacturing perspective, this is not the easiest solution. Cam-operated systems can be simpler to manufacture and more suitable for large scale production.

Yet the column wheel has long been associated with high-end chronographs not merely because of the tactile character it can provide, but because of the mechanical beauty of the system itself.

On the GP03800, the heat-blued column wheel stands out among the bridges and gears, becoming one of the first details to catch the eye when examining the movement.

HORIZONTAL CLUTCH: WHEN MECHANICS BECOME THEATRE

If the column wheel controls the chronograph, the horizontal clutch makes its operation visible.
Modern chronographs may employ vertical clutches, which offer several technical advantages.

But when the purpose is to appreciate mechanical motion, the lateral clutch has an appeal all its own.

Press Start and watch through the caseback.
A lever moves.
The coupling wheel shifts into position.
The gears engage.
Power begins to flow into the chronograph wheel.

A tiny movement of your finger sets an entire mechanical sequence into motion. You do not merely know that the chronograph has started. You can actually watch it start.
This is part of the fascination behind traditional chronographs such as the Lemania 2310, Lange L951 and many of Patek Philippe’s high-end chronograph movements.

The GP03800 follows the same fundamental mechanical philosophy.

INSTANTANEOUS JUMPING MINUTE

One of the less obvious but particularly interesting details of Calibre 3800 is its instantaneous jumping minute counter.

Instead of allowing the minute counter to gradually creep toward the next indication as the chronograph seconds hand approaches 60, Girard-Perregaux designed the mechanism so that the minute counter advances almost instantaneously once the cycle is completed.

It is hardly something most owners actually need.

But for those who enjoy studying movements, it demonstrates how seriously GP approached even relatively small mechanical details.

This type of minute-counter mechanism often appears in discussions surrounding high-end chronographs, with the Lange Datograph being perhaps one of the best-known examples.

That does not mean the GP03800 equals the Datograph in complexity or finishing.

It simply shows that Calibre 3800 was conceived with ambitions beyond those of an ordinary chronograph movement.

MICROVAR AND REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE

The GP03800 uses Girard-Perregaux’s Microvar variable-inertia balance, allowing regulation through changes to the inertia of the balance rather than relying solely on a conventional regulator.

In testing conducted by WatchTime, the movement produced impressive results.

Amplitude was measured at approximately 322° with the chronograph disengaged and remained around 294° with the chronograph running.

Average rate deviation was recorded at approximately +0.7 seconds per day with the chronograph off and -2.3 seconds per day with it running.

For a mechanical chronograph movement, those are highly respectable figures.

FINISHING A MOVEMENT DESIGNED TO BE SEEN

The GP03800 was not merely designed to perform well. It was designed to give its owner a reason to turn the watch over.

Through the sapphire caseback, much of the chronograph mechanism is exposed.

The bridges are decorated with Côtes de Genève, the wheels feature circular graining, bridge edges are bevelled, screws are carefully finished, and the contrast between different surfaces creates layers of reflection as the watch moves under the light.

What we particularly appreciate is that Girard-Perregaux did not hide the movement beneath oversized bridges.

The column wheel, clutch, levers and gear train remain clearly visible. As a result, every activation of the chronograph becomes a miniature mechanical performance.

And for Nostimevie, this is perhaps the most compelling aspect of Calibre 3800.

BUT THE GP03800 IS NOT PERFECT

An interesting movement does not automatically make a perfect watch.
The GP03800 measures only approximately 25.6 mm across, while Ref. 49529 uses a 40 mm case.

The discrepancy can be seen from the back, but its consequences are even more apparent from the dial side: the two sub-dials are positioned relatively close to the centre.
This was also one of the details discussed by Hodinkee, SJX and collectors when the 49529 appeared.

Had Calibre 3800 been housed in a case around 37–38 mm, the relationship between the movement, sub-dials and case might have felt more natural. The date window at six o’clock is another point of debate.

It certainly adds everyday practicality, but on a manually wound, column-wheel chronograph with such a classical character, a no-date dial might have produced a purer and more balanced design.

Nostimevie tends to agree.

A 37–38 mm Ref. 49529 without a date, powered by the same Calibre 3800, could have been an exceptionally difficult watch to criticise.

A MOVEMENT THAT RECEIVED SERIOUS INVESTMENT BUT LIVED A RELATIVELY SHORT LIFE

What is unusual is that despite everything Girard-Perregaux invested in Calibre 3800, the movement never developed into a widely recognised chronograph platform.

GP did not expand it into a broad movement family with a lasting identity in the way Zenith did with the El Primero or Lange with the L951.

As a result, Ref. 49529 entered the modern history of Girard-Perregaux rather quietly before gradually disappearing from wider market attention.

For collectors, however, obscurity is not necessarily a disadvantage.

Sometimes the most interesting movements are found precisely where few people are looking.

FROM NEARLY $40,000 TO A VERY DIFFERENT POSITION IN TODAY’S MARKET

At launch, the Girard-Perregaux 1966 Column-Wheel Chronograph retailed for approximately CHF 35,500 roughly USD 37,000 - 39,000 depending on market and period.

That unquestionably placed it within haute horlogerie territory.

The secondary market, however, tells a very different story.

Ref. 49529 has appeared at auction with estimates dramatically below its original retail price. Christie’s, for example, once placed an estimate of approximately USD 7,500 - 10,000 on an example.

Because relatively few examples trade publicly, the market for the reference remains thin, and values can vary considerably depending on condition, completeness and provenance.

The enormous gap between original retail and secondary-market value illustrates a familiar reality with Girard-Perregaux:

Craftsmanship value and market value do not always move together.

GP does not command the same strength on the secondary market as certain other manufactures.

Ref. 49529 never became a sufficiently prominent icon to attract widespread collector demand.

And perhaps more importantly, relatively few people seem to realise what sits behind it: Calibre 3800

DO NOT RUSH TO COMPARE IT WITH THE DATOGRAPH

Looking at the architecture of the GP03800, it is tempting to place it alongside movements such as the Lange L951 or Patek Philippe CH 29-535. But such comparisons should be made carefully.

The Lange L951 offers spectacular architecture and a higher degree of finishing. Patek Philippe likewise employs exceptionally sophisticated proprietary chronograph solutions.

The GP03800 does not need to defeat those movements in order to be interesting.

What matters is that it follows the same broader philosophy of traditional chronograph construction:

- An integrated chronograph.
- Manual winding.
- Column-wheel control.
- And a mechanism deliberately exposed so that its operation can be appreciated by the owner.

That alone gives Calibre 3800 a fascinating place within the world of mechanical chronographs.

NOSTIMEVIE VIEW

If we judge Ref. 49529 purely by comparing its original retail price with its current secondary-market value, it is easy to see it simply as a watch that depreciated heavily.

But a collector might ask a different question: At today’s price, what are we actually getting?

A Girard-Perregaux chronograph.
A manually wound movement containing more than 300 components.
A traditional integrated chronograph architecture finished to a high standard.
And perhaps more importantly, a calibre that appeared for a relatively brief period and was never produced or promoted long enough to become a familiar name.

We do not consider Ref. 49529 perfect.

The movement is slightly small relative to the case.
The two sub-dials sit somewhat close to the centre.
The date window arguably did not need to be there.
But these shortcomings do not make Calibre 3800 any less interesting.

If anything, they help explain why such a seriously developed movement never became an icon.
More than a decade after its introduction, the market has changed considerably.
Much of the original commercial value attached to Ref. 49529 has disappeared.

But turn the watch over and press Start, and the part that matters most remains exactly where it has always been:

The column wheel turns.
The lever moves.
The clutch engages.
The chronograph begins to run.
And a system comprising more than 300 individual components comes together after a single press of your finger.

Perhaps that is the most appropriate way to understand the Girard-Perregaux GP03800.

Not by remembering that it once cost nearly $40,000.
Nor by asking how much the market is willing to pay for it today.
But by looking at what Girard-Perregaux actually created behind the dial.
The market can put a price on a watch. But the price of a watch and the value of its movement can sometimes tell two very different stories.
And the GP03800 is a beautiful example of exactly that.

Sown Sachs

Got this digital titanium watch from Boccia today.

The render photos of this ref might show slightly different gray (blue-ish), but it’s just gray. Also there are other colors: blue, green (on straps) and PVD versions (gold, darker titanium). As far as I know, there are refs from 1 to 7.

Upd: sorry for the typo, this is Ref 05, not 07

The watch is inexpensive, but feels good. The case is 37mm, the lug width is closer to 21mm and the weight is ~67g sized to my 6.5-inch wrist.

Display:

It’s crisp, the viewing angles are good.

You might think that there’s some empty space on the bottom, but this is for the indicators of the active timer/alarms.

The modes are: chrono, countdown (which also beeps, not sure how often), world time, 2 alarms.

The bracelet doesn’t have half-links and micro adjust. I couldn’t find a good fit (unlike with the Traska). I emailed Boccia if they have the OEM rubber strap for sale. I saw the titanium bracelet on their website, but not the strap.
I could not fit my Garmin rubber strap, because the lugs are too short it seems. And with the 20mm leather strap there’s a small gap, so I want to try a 21mm leather if I won’t be able to get the OEM one.
The clasp is stamped, which is ok for this price point.

P.S. Sorry for the unformatted post. Rate my 2-watch collection!

Hello everyone, I’m looking for a watch with a white dial and have narrowed it down to the Rolex Datejust 36, fluted bezel/jubilee bracelet with the white Roman dial, and the Cartier Santos Medium. The white Datejust doesn’t seem to be a “desirable” configuration compared to the green and blue, and the Santos seems to be very popular. Which watch would you choose and why?

EDIT: has anyone had both the Datejust and Santos? Which one did you prefer?

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I’ve been collecting watches for a few years and I like having the “milestone” excuse for adding something new to the collection.

That being said I actually have a major business milestone coming up and so I’ve taken the unsurprising decision to add something new.

I thought let’s do the rounds and try everything considered iconic.

I was excited to try the 37mm Royal Oak and the Aquanaut and when I did…I felt nothing. Total anti-climax.

By contrast, loved the new JLC Master Control Perpetual Calendar and the Ulysses Nardin Freak much more.

Let’s be clear as much as I enjoy a microbrand or luxury brands that are more enthusiast oriented (see Grand Seiko and Glashutte) I am someone who is a big fan of several iconic watches that are hyped (Speedmaster, GMT Master II).

Anyway, was there a watch you were super-hyped about until you actually tried it on?

First, thank you everyone for the great feedback, like I said my interest is fairly new so it's been helpful learning that just because the navitimer looks like a chronograph it's firmly a pilot's watch and the santos was technically the first watch "for" a pilot but not the first "pilot's watch". Lots of great nuance this time around and hopefully closer to more accurately grouping modern and historical watches accurately. Secondly, a couple comments from last time accused me of using AI, this was fully made in Adobe Illustrator (which probably isn't the best software for this application) so no... there's no AI here. I hand searched the best pictures I could find for each image. As always, open to feedback and thanks for expanding my watch world view.

I'm looking for a perfect dressy-sporty mechanical bracelet watch. I'm currently in love with the Tissot Gentleman 40mm.

The last pic shows my current budget collection. I'm lucky to have several different types of watches and the budget daydate rolex Tissot will fill the gap nicely.

In terms of what I'm looking for, I'm not seeing any contenders even at a $3,000 budget.

• Not interested in Seiko, already got the beautiful GMT SSK orange.
• Not interested in leather straps, need bracelet.
• Longines is triple the price, and their Spirit pilot is ok. I initially liked their Master Collection Light Blue, but I think the Tissot overall looks cleaner and I'm not seeing why I'm paying 4x more for some marginally better polishing.

Just making sure I'm not missing anything else before I pull the trigger.

Looks neat. Thanks

Hi guys.

I've been looking to get a new daily watch and can't really decide between these 2.

I really like the looks of both, but I have only seen the murph on my wrist, the Mido I couldn't find it anywhere available near me.

Thoughts on which one to get? Any input is really appreciated!

I am definitely in love with this Arabic numerals and sector dial combo. Does any existing watch f have this kind of dual (sub 37mm please)? Thanks in advance.

Been collecting watches for over a year and thought for the longest time that six was the perfect number. Allowing me to rotate through a different piece every day of the week.

​However, I’ve realized I am much more content with just having three. I spend far less time worrying about which of the six watches I am least satisfied with and have to replace.

​Along the way, I also developed a draw to titanium watches. The lightness and comfort on the wrist ultimately led me to consolidate down to these specific three:

​IWC Ingenieur Titanium & VC Overseas 49150 Titanium LE: Worn during weekdays in the office.

​Tudor Pelagos FXD GMT: My beater watch for weekends and traveling.

I have been wearing smart watches and fitness trackers for the past couple of years, I decided I finally wanted to simplify my life a bit so I picked this Hamilton Khaki Field Mechanical Bronze Edition up in an effort to keep my eyes off of my phone and on the things that matter in my life. Just trying to live a little more intentionally.

I don’t know if I plan on starting a collection but, but I can’t help but crack a smile every time I look at this thing, and I can’t wait for it to patina as the years go on.

This is the watch that launched me into the incredibly expensive habit of watch collecting. I love thinking about what this watch has seen since it was assembled in the mid 1950s.

Lemania is not a name many people know despite the brand’s incredible history. Their caliber 321 powered the original Speedmaster to the moon. Patek Philippe used them in the 3970, Vacheron Constantin in its Cornes de Vache, Audemars Piguet in its own chronographs. Unfortunately the brand fell victim to the quartz crisis but the many of their calibers (modified of course) live on in modern chronos.

When it comes to military watches, I think the HS9 is hard to beat.

Hi everyone,
I’m currently torn between the Tudor Black Bay 58 (black/gilt) and the Longines Spirit Pilot Flyback 39mm. This will be my first more expensive watch, so I want to make the right choice.
I can get both for roughly the same price. Resale value isn’t important to me — I buy watches to wear them and want something I can wear frequently and for almost any occasion.
I really like the black and gilt color scheme, which is one of the reasons both watches appeal to me so much. The Tudor attracts me with its simplicity, automatic movement, and versatility, while the Longines fascinates me with its flyback chronograph, countdown bezel, and more distinctive concept.
Which one would you choose and why?

In the 1960's my Great Grandfather worked in a construction yard. He found this watch on the ground. When he brought it home, he swore it was not authentic. It was just too good to be true, who would leave a rolex at a construction site.

He never restored it, never wore it, it sat in a desk at his house.
In the 1980's my great grand father passed away and my grand father took the watch.
it was n left in the drawer for years.

When i was in 7th grade i found the watch at my grand parents, i told my grandpa...i wanted that watch, he said something like "Okay sunny boy" lol...

Fast forward today, im in my mid 30's. My grandpa passed away, and in his will, he wrote me the non authentic rolex.

Sad that he passed away although I was so excited to get my hands on this and confirm if this was real.
I took it to a local rolex mom and pop shop. They sent it out for restoration.

today i just got it back...and it came out amazing. The dial with the patina, the knick on the gold case, this watch has a story. They replaced the gaskets, main spring, crystal and confirmed this is a real rolex..which is something none of us expected...

Its a reference 6092 , with the 14k gold case. called the bombe lugs or something. Once i told my dad he said my grandpa would have gotten a real kick out of knowing...
That this watch that sat in a desk for 60 years....was a real rolex

EDIT:
This is my first Rolex, and love the story this watch has. Every time i look at it on my wrist I can't help but smile.

I have been smitten with the black dial Alpine Eagle Cadence since I tried it on a few years ago. I’m an owner of the standard blue reference and I’m a big fan of the watch- I love blue, fits well with my style. The problem is, the Cadence is SO much more expensive, and I can’t decide if that price differential makes sense for what is largely almost the same watch. The differences are:

1. Full titanium construction
2. High beat movement (cool, but I’m not a huge movement guy)
3. The clasp has the twin triggers whereas mine is a friction fit.
4. The dial on the Cadence is a little cleaner with only the XII Roman numeral as opposed to the III, VI, IX on the standard. I do think the Cadence dial is a bit sleeker.

Any thoughts on this conundrum? Pre-owned examples are like $10k differential. My gut is telling me the price differential doesn’t make sense and that I should stick with the blue and maybe upgrade the clasp.

I've been waiting about 5 years for one of these to pop up on eBay for a good price (red or green). I got the red dial for a steal with both the leather band and the bracelet. The beads of rice bracelet is a must, of course. I don't want to say how much I got it for because you may be jealous, haha. Better yet, it arrived the day before I start my new job. It was supposed to be delivered Monday, but it came a day early on Sunday. Super comfortable watch—by far the most comfortable bracelet that I've worn. It’s temping to use it as a daily watch but it’s just too nice! Maybe if I scratch it bad someday then I can finally make it my beater. Eventually, the 1957 limited edition will finally be scarce, and I'll be glad that I got one.

Doing a morning trail walk with the Milgauss, the green crystal feels right at home in the trees. Probably not your typical trail watch but I’m enjoying it everywhere. So glad the weather is finally cooling down and it’s easier to be outside now too. What’s everyone else wearing today?