r/climbharder

G-Tox shakeout for 9x better recovery than standard shaking (sharing my research notes)

Intro:
I'm currently researching this for a blog post, but since it's getting basically zero traffic, figured I'd share the findings here where people might actually find them useful.

Most of us shake our arms out wrong and rest too little between attempts. Here's what the actual research says.

1. Lactic acid doesn't cause the pump

Common myth. Lactate is actually used as an energy substrate, not a waste product. The real cause: when your forearm muscles contract hard, they compress the blood vessels running through them. Above ~70% max voluntary contraction, vessels are nearly fully occluded — you're working anaerobically, with no fresh oxygen in and no waste out. That's the pump. Recovery = restoring blood flow, nothing else.

2. G-Tox: a 9x improvement from one change

In 2005, a researcher at the University of Chichester (Luke Roberts) tested the standard dangling-arm shakeout against a technique developed by Eric Hörst called G-Tox.

Setup: climbers did a hard traverse, then got a 2-minute recovery window using either method. Grip strength was measured after.

- Standard dangling shakeout: +2% grip strength recovered
- G-Tox: +18% grip strength recovered

Same 2 minutes. 9x difference from a positional change.

The protocol is stupidly simple:

  1. Raise one arm overhead, shake loosely for 5 sec
  2. Drop the same arm to your side, shake loosely for 5 sec
  3. Switch arms, repeat

Why it works: gravity assists venous return. When your arm hangs down, blood pools in the hand/forearm. Raising it overhead helps pull that blood (and the metabolic waste) back toward the heart. Alternating creates a pumping effect.

3. Flash pump — warm-up isn't optional

Climbing hard before your forearms are properly warmed up causes a specific, disproportionately bad pump that takes way longer to clear. Cold muscle has reduced vasodilatory capacity, so even moderate effort pushes you into near-occlusion. A gradual pyramidal warm-up (easy → moderate → sub-limit) before projecting is the difference between 2 quality attempts and 5.

4. You're probably not resting long enough

Steve Bechtel / Juliet Hammer's work:rest framework, based on climbing type:

- Sub-limit boulder problems: 1:8 ratio (10s attempt → ~80s rest)
- Limit boulder problems: 1:20 ratio (5s attempt → ~100s rest, or ~1 min/move)
- Power endurance: 1:6 to 1:8 (5 min on wall → 30+ min rest)
- Endurance/sport routes: 1:4 (7 min route → ~28 min rest)

Notice limit bouldering needs MORE relative rest than endurance climbing, not less — because it hammers your CNS, not just your forearms.

5. Local fatigue vs CNS fatigue — the one that actually kills sessions

- Local fatigue (the pump): clears in 5-15 min with proper rest + G-Tox
- CNS fatigue (from max-intensity efforts — limit moves, campus boarding, heavy hangs): can persist 24-48 hours

Your forearms can feel completely fine while your power output is still down ~30%. You won't notice until you're actually on the wall. This is why sessions fall apart after the 3rd attempt even when you "feel fine" — and why going back on the board the day after a max session is often a bad idea, even though your arms don't feel pumped anymore.

A 2024 study on elite climbers post-competition found forearm swelling took a full 12 hours to return to baseline — not 20 minutes, not 2 hours.

TL;DR

  1. Switch to G-Tox — free, 30 seconds to learn, +18% vs +2% recovery
  2. Rest longer than feels necessary, especially after limit efforts (local fatigue clearing ≠ CNS recovery)
  3. Never skip warm-up on performance days

Happy to share sources if anyone wants to dig into the studies themselves.

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u/phreak318 — 4 hours ago
▲ 331 r/climbharder+8 crossposts

Thank you for your help! Mental fatigue questionnaire study update — how the scale was put together and what this round is doing

Last month I posted here recruiting for my PhD study developing an acute and chronic scale measuring mental fatigue in sport. First off, I want to say a big thank you to everyone who took the time to fill it out. The responses have been brilliant and a few of the comments made me see the problem through a different lens, especially as my background is in climbing and weightlifting so seeing it from a runners perspective was really helpful. A few people also asked how the questionnaire was put together and what this round is doing, and I should have laid that out from the start. Full references are in a separate comment below.

Where the items came from

The scale is being developed following Boateng et al.'s (2018) framework for scale development, which is a detailed primer explaining how to develop and validate scales in behavioural and health science. The starting point was a wide search of the literature. I pulled items from two main sources: 16 measures of mental fatigue and mental load used in the general adult population (identified through Diaz-Garcia et al.'s 2021 systematic review), and 19 measures used in sport-specific contexts (identified through my own systematic scoping review of mental fatigue and mental load measurement tools in sport. I am looking to publish this soon). On top of that I added items developed from my readings of six papers that describe how athletes experience mental fatigue and what drives it (Van Cutsem et al., 2017; Martin et al., 2018; Pattyn et al., 2018; Russell et al., 2019; Gantois et al., 2020; Habay et al., 2021). That gave me a pool of 462 items.

Those 462 items went through a deductive thematic analysis (Braun & Clarke, 2006) at the latent level to identify the underlying domains, which reduced the pool to 105 items. During a team review with my supervisors, it became clear there were two distinct constructs that needed separating: acute mental fatigue (the momentary state right now, before or after a session) and chronic mental fatigue (the longer pattern that builds over weeks and months). The five themes that came out of the analysis were inputs contributing to mental fatigue, motivation, perception of effort, decisional balance, and the influence of mental fatigue on behaviour.

Expert review with subject matter experts

The next step was getting six subject matter experts to review every item. The panel was deliberately mixed: researchers in mental fatigue, an exercise physiologist, a cognition specialist, someone with scale development expertise, a professional coach, and an athlete as end-users. Putting athletes on the panel was important, because items that make perfect sense to experts can land badly when you try to use them in a training context. Each item was rated on appropriateness, representativeness, and clarity using Hardesty and Bearden's (2004) sum-score decision rule, and items that didn't make the cut got removed. Some items were reworded based on expert feedback (for example, "tiredness" was changed to "fatigue" across several items to keep the construct clean). That process left 43 items for acute and 51 for chronic, which is what's currently being distributed.

What this round is doing

This round is about dimensionality and item reduction phase. The data from everyone who fills it in goes into an exploratory factor analysis, which takes that wide item pool and works out which items group together and load cleanly onto meaningful factors, then cuts the ones that don't. The finalised scale is a much shorter and captures the underlying structure without the redundancy. The goal is well under 20 items total across both acute and chronic. Although I am at the mercy of the analysis as to what the final number will be.

As such the current length isn't an accident. Starting wide and cutting based on real participant data is the only way to do this properly. But I'm fully aware that it makes the experience heavier than the final tool will be, and that's a trade-off I'm asking participants to accept to achieve high rigour.

I received feedback that some items felt unclear or hard to map onto their own experience. I want to be upfront that this is useful information. Items that don't sit naturally with athletes tend to be exactly the ones that don't load cleanly in factor analysis. So, they should be removed through this process naturally.

What comes after

Once the analysis is complete and the scale is reduced, there's one more round after this focused on validation, looking at concurrent validity (does the new scale correlate with established measures of mental fatigue) and test-retest reliability (does it produce stable results across time). I'll be writing this round up as a paper either way, and I'll come back here with a summary including which items survived and what the final scale looks like. Happy to answer questions in the comments on the methodology or mental fatigue research in general too.

For anyone who hasn't filled it in yet, the link is below. It takes 10-15 minutes to complete and will help us get 1 step closer to understanding how work impacts the sport we love.

https://derby.questionpro.eu/t/AB3vCJoZB3waVr

Cheers.

Cam

u/Same_Row_761 — 17 hours ago

Capacity training

Paradigm climbing recently released a guided training program that seems quite structured and useful for progressing. Unfortunately it costs like $1500, which many of us can't afford. The description however includes a broad outline, and the main idea is to have 4 training phases over the course of a year, the first of which is just called "capacity". This program is for boulderers, so presumably capacity doesn't mean simply endurance, but rather the ability to have longer and more frequent sessions. The only information about this "phase" I could find really is that you shouldn't be exerting max effort at any point. I'm just wondering if anyone has a more detailed description of how one might improve training capacity? Should you be climbing 6 days a week, but well below your limit, on good holds? Should you still do the occasional pull-ups and hangboarding? Can you incorporate wall-crawls on a moonboard in this phase, or is that too finger intense? My goal is really to just be able to climb as much as possible, not even necessarily as hard as possible. I just enjoy it a lot, but my body struggles with more than 4 sessions a week, even with sleep and diet optimized

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u/RemoteBluebird9872 — 19 hours ago

Critical Force: Lattice vs Science

I compared the data from Giles 2021 paper with what I found on Lattice's website and the differences are, well, weird. Can someone make sense of it? Is the Lattice data outdated or which of the two makes more sense?

I'm trying to figure out if my CF is at a level where it should be or not, but the data is confusing me. My CF is about 58%BW on 2 hands. According to the paper that would correlate with having 7b/+ as highest grade, whereas in Lattice's world I could climb 8c I guess?

I compared both in an excel:

https://preview.redd.it/bcpjd8tqnfbh1.png?width=477&format=png&auto=webp&s=08f512ca18ee5121aa9058d0762716cb329d7bc5

What is going on? The difference is HUGE?!

This is where I got the Lattice values from:

https://preview.redd.it/0ajo8todnfbh1.png?width=1376&format=png&auto=webp&s=de2a389a4754fc9cde8df52b2b747ed71c695890

And this is from the Giles paper (I did the grade conversion for you):

https://preview.redd.it/7m1i7zwgnfbh1.png?width=618&format=png&auto=webp&s=c574971ee3405bd83dd28eaf913e5dc3a862342f

As background info, I did the repeater test and here are my results:

https://preview.redd.it/07gd74tdofbh1.png?width=453&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb259d451c4cc54238e120ab8e84b5ef0a3f0220

I've climbed around 85 7a's outdoors, a couple 7c's and one 8a.

I think comparing the CF data to "highest grade achieved" also skews it because some people project hard while others may not. It makes more sense to look at on-sight grade probably, or to the grade you can usually do within a couple tries / one session.

The results from the paper align more with reality, I usually get pumped out hard in 7b/+. Of course that is looking at the average. But for 7b/+ with Lattice's data I would be in the upper end. I would not describe myself as a climber with good endurance, I even get pumped on 6c's.

Can anyone explain what I'm missing, why are these 2 datasets showing such different values?

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u/Basic-Eye-1220 — 22 hours ago

At Home Climbing Protocol Adjustment

I am 16, 5'11 (and a bit), 145lbs, and I have been climbing for about three years. I max boulder V8/9 on the kilter board (and in my gym, which is decidedly harder than the kilter board), lead 5.12d-13a. My max hang is 85lbs, I can do about fifteen pull-ups, my deadlift is 235, squat is 155, and bench is 145. I can do 1-4 on the campus board and have touched 1-6, never controlled 1-5. I can also do a 1-4-6.

I try to get to the gym 3x per week (2 team sessions and one focused training on my own), though the real number is usually twice (1 team 1 own) and sometimes once (either team or personal).

Since I do not yet have my license, and have little time during the week to climb (I work, full-time student, lots of ECs and such), I have recently taken to hangboarding more at home, since it is one of the few things I can do. On top of that, I do mobility routines because my internal hip rotation is extremely weak, which leads to bad strains and such while on the wall (slab especially). I have luckily never seriously injured myself, besides a broken pinky about a year ago.

My hangboard protocol is essentially doing randomly timed hangs on 20mm until I'm bored. I do this with 30lbs of dumbbells in a backpack. I get this is not at all optimal, but I have been seeing returns, and it gets me on the hang board. I have since stagnated with weight and time (and boredom, I guess?) -- due to not having any more dumbbells at home -- so I am seeking a new protocol.

I want to do something more focused, so I can begin targeting weaknesses. I struggle in a deep lock-off (can hardly hold one for >10 seconds), and my max weighted pull-up is only around 60lbs. My endurance is also very shot, and I have not lead climbed past 5.12c in a few months. I also want to be able to one-arm hang (bent or not) on 20mm. I can currently one-arm lock off on a bar for 5-ish seconds. It is not very controlled.

I am certain that strength is not the limiting factor in my bouldering or lead climbing. I simply cannot get to the gym often, but I still want to improve with the free time I have. I also know I have weaknesses that can be improved with the equipment available to me.

Please let me know how I can:

a) fix my hangboard protocol
b) work on lock-offs
c) anything else I have not yet considered as a weakness.

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u/ARoguellama — 4 days ago

How much energy do you spend protecting your climbing identity?

Full disclosure: I host the Ageless Athlete podcast, and this came up for me after a conversation I recorded with Beth Rodden.

One part of the conversation really stuck with me. Beth talked about how the old climbing story was often built around athletes as superhumans: bold, certain, tough, always progressing. And she said that never matched her real experience. She had insecurity, self-doubt, injuries, days where she was good at what she did, and days where she wasn’t.

I related to that more than I expected.

My hardest grade was 5.13a, about 13 years ago. I still carry that around as part of my identity. But the honest version is: I’ve been injured, at 48 now, I'm not the same physically / mentally, and there are days that I'm struggling on 5.11s.

And I notice how much ego shows up around that.

Sometimes I catch myself apologizing before I even climb something easier. Sometimes I don’t want to get on certain routes if people are around. Sometimes I want to explain the old version of myself before anyone sees the current one.

Which is ridiculous, but also very real.

For a sub like this, where many of us are trying to improve and chase harder grades, I’m curious how people think about this. Does protecting your climbing identity make you worse? Does it create unnecessary tension, bad route choices, or avoidance? Or is some amount of ego useful fuel?

Also, those who have dealt with injury, aging, long plateaus, or big gaps between your past and current ability: how do you stay ambitious without constantly measuring yourself against who you used to be?

Feel free to check out the pod if you are so inclined. Apple link, or wherever you listen....

u/MaleficentFloor822 — 5 days ago

Training Plan

This is my first post on this subreddit, so please let me know if any of this is formatted incorrectly or in violation of any of the rules so I can fix it.

I'm starting at a new university this fall and I'm considering trying out for their climbing team. I want to be in the best shape that I can be by the time tryouts roll around, so I was wondering if you guys had any advice about training plans or general tips for improving.

Some context about me as a climber: I've climbed on and off recreationally for the past 5 years, but I've been very consistent about it again since November of 2025. I regularly climb v5s and v6s at my gym (second v7 done as of this week), but I think my gym grades fairly soft since I have trouble with lower grade Moonboard climbs quite a bit. As far as a general fitness overview, I am 5'7" with an ape index of +2.5 and a fairly muscular 170lbs (pretty heavy, but I am on a slight caloric deficit and have been running a lot recently to shave off some extra weight), can do around 5 or 6 pull ups in a row with good form, and am very flexible. Regarding my style of climbing, I try to climb in a very controlled manner whenever I can, doing my best to not cut feet unless it's necessary, and doing as much work with my legs as I can. My biggest weakness in terms of physical strength is definitely my core. I definitely want to improve my core strength, but I'm not really sure where to start, so any pointers are appreciated. I am not sure about my biggest weakness in terms of technique, but I've been thinking about climbing with people who climb harder than me to gain insight from them over the next couple of months. I climb 3-4 times a week usually and don't do any weight training as of now.

Overall, I was wondering if you guys had any insights about how I could focus my efforts to get into the best shape I can reasonably achieve by mid-September. Should I be weight training/doing calisthenics in addition to climbing? If so, what should I do? Should I try to Moonboard more? Should I prioritize weight loss? Any advice is welcome! Even if you don't think I have a chance of making the team by this fall, I would still appreciate some guidance to get better so I have a shot next year. I'm excited to hear what you guys think. Let me know if you have any other questions or if there's anything I can clarify.

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u/onehautboi — 3 days ago

Base training/periodisation input request

I am looking for input about periodisation and improving base climbing endurance.

About me:-

I am 26, have been climbing around 5 years (mostly indoor bouldering but started outdoor sport climbing last year). I have flashed v7 and climbed v9 outdoors and have climbed 7c sport outdoors.

There is no outdoor bouldering close to me but a local sport climbing crag a few hours from home, and I have some 7c+ and 8a projects there.

My main sport climbing issue is that I get pumped on everything - sometimes 6b and 7b feel similarly hard because the limiting factor is pump.

My goal is to improve at sport climbing (climb 8a this year) without losing bouldering power.

Facilities: -

My local bouldering gym is small, has walls ranging only from slab to 20* and has an adjustable kilter board that can only be dropped beyond 20* when the gym is quiet (i.e friday night). I have access to a commercial gym but don’t go often. I recently started jogging 2-4x per week.

My current training:-

Monday: Try the new gym set

Wednesday: outdoor sport climbing easyish volume (5-6 pitches) or indoor social climbing

Friday: kilter board projecting

Saturday/Sunday: Outdoor sport climbing projecting or indoor climbing (very unstructured)

My plan for periodisation:-

July/August: cut back on projecting and instead include in all gym sessions easy circuits (3-4 x 5+ minutes) on 20* wall/kilter board until I feel a noticeable improvement in endurance

August/September: add hangboard sessions in to start improving finger strength - i.e 2x2 7-10 second max hangs for 3 finger drag, 4 finger open hand, and half crimp (around 2x per week)

September/October: slowly refocus back to hard kilter board to push max strength

November/December: focus on outdoor projects
with a goal of climbing 8a sport.

I’m just wondering if anyone has any advice on periodisation for my goals or how I could restructure my training? I think one issue I struggle with is letting go of the hard climbing (i.e kilter board projecting), because that’s what I enjoy doing.

I appreciate anyone who has read this far and any input you may have. Let me know if you know of any training resources which may be useful.

EDIT: in terms of style: my local outdoor sport climbing is mostly 10-20* technical climbing on polished slopers, whereas my strength is in powerful overhung climbing on crimps and edges (which i train on the kilter board, where I usually flash v8 and project v10).

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u/LongjumpingWarning53 — 5 days ago

Incorporating the Campus Board

Hi all

Looking for advice on beginner campus board workouts for a non beginner climber. I’ve been bouldering for 5 years, actively trying to improve and train for bouldering for only the last 15 months though. Currently max grade on gym boulders and Kilter board is v7, I typically flash gym/kilter v5s. I’ve been outdoors maybe 8 times total and have sent 4-5 V4s outside.

I feel as though campus board training is low hanging fruit for me to milk “noob gains” on to improve my climbing power, as I have never used this for training and I struggle with contact strength and dynamic lock offs. I’m not a very powerful/dynamic climber, my strength is my static full crimp strength which is disproportionately strong for my climbing level imo (I can hang full crimp on 15mm at 120% BW for 7sec).

My gym has 5 different campus ladders - full jug, sloper logs, 30mm crimp bar, 20mm crimp bar, 15mm crimp bar. I’m looking to improve my outdoor climbing so I don’t think the jugs will be too helpful. I’m thinking the 30mm crimp bar is probably the best place to start, yeah?

How do you structure your campus board workout (eg sets/reps of what exactly)? Do you do it before you climb? Or do you do it on a non-climbing day? How do you address a weaker left/right side? (eg Do you train both at the weaker side’s limit or do you train both sides at their individual limit?)

Thanks in advance.

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u/Cremaster_Reflex69 — 5 days ago

Do grades make us better climbers, or quietly worse?

The few times the setters at my gym leave a new set ungraded for a week, I love it. You climb things because they look good and throw yourself at whatever catches your eye, with no number telling you what you're supposed to manage. It got me wondering what grades are actually for, and whether they help us improve or push us the wrong way.

Think about the most efficient grade-chasing strategy. If the goal is to climb a number, the smart move is to find the softest problem that suits your style and send that. Completely rational, and a great way to get better at what you're already good at and nothing else. It works in reverse too. Once a grade is tied to how you see yourself, falling on something below it stings, so you start avoiding the styles you're weak at. The number meant to track your progress ends up steering you toward your strengths and away from the climbs that would round you out.

A lot of this comes from a grade being a consensus average, and an average fits no one in particular. The same V5 is a flash for one person and a multi-session war for another, depending on what each is good at. Most of us aren't standing in the middle, so the one number can't tell us what we actually want to know: not how hard this is on average, but how hard it is for you.

One fix is to make difficulty a rating instead of a fixed grade. Chess style, where a rating predicts your odds of beating an opponent at a given rating, except here the opponent is the climb and the numbers come from who sends what instead of a consensus vote. That part isn't new; people have built Elo-style experiments before. But a single rating still rewards the same grade-chasing, because it's still one number.

What I picture instead: every climb gets a difficulty rating plus a read on what kind of climb it is, scored on a few style axes (crimp vs sloper, static vs dynamic, steep and powerful vs vertical and technical). You get the same profile out of your own logbook. Put them together and instead of a bare "V5" you see your own odds on a problem, say 40 percent, and which axis is holding you back.

That's the part I'd actually use. Your weak axis is right there, so you can go find problems at the edge of your ability in exactly that style, the ones where you fail productively, and watch the profile shift as you log attempts. Battling something "below your grade" stops being an ego hit and becomes the obvious move, because the number agrees it's hard for you.

So, genuinely: have grades helped you improve, or steered you toward your strengths and away from your weaknesses? And would a personal, style-aware number change how you train, or is that just a grade with extra steps?

Obvious objections, add more:

\- People don't log fails. If only sends get recorded, the difficulty signal gets shaky. Probably the central problem.

\- Grades are a shared language. "V8" means something instantly to anyone you talk to; a number only meaningful relative to you loses that.

\- It only works where different groups of climbers overlap on the same problems. Where that's thin, the numbers only calibrate inside the bubble.
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u/North_Guidance2568 — 6 days ago

Weekly /r/climbharder Hangout Thread

This is a thread for topics or questions which don't warrant their own thread, as well as general spray.

Come on in and hang out!

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u/AutoModerator — 7 days ago

Tips for breaking through 6 year plateau / regression as a climber prone to finger injuries.

For context I am a 29 y/o guy who has been climbing for about 8 years regularly with some random months off here and there because of constant finger injuries.
I am 6’0 and 195lbs, but don’t look or feel particularly overweight. I have almost no belly fat / can see abdominals, so it’s hard for me to lose weight. Though I might be able to lose 10-15lbs, I just haven’t tried yet.

I’ve been pretty psyched on indoor and outdoor climbing since I first discovered the sport.
In my first week indoor I sent v5 and within my first year I sent v8. Everyone around me commented how good my progress was, which was validating as I’ve never been particularly good at sports or much of anything.

Into my second year I was regularly projecting v7 and 5.11/5.12 indoor and outdoor. Which is around the time I first injured myself in a pocket. It was a bad lumbrical injury and FDP strain. Fast forward through the last 6 years it has been one injury after another. I’ve injured both ring and middle finger A2, A4, and am very prone to lumbrical strains.

I can’t remember the last time I felt confident in the health of my fingers. About 2 years ago my performance peaked and I was projecting lots of 5.12s and V9s and even sent a few gym V9 and one outdoor. But even then my fingers always felt fragile and on the verge of catastrophe. These days I go to the gym and climb 5.11 and boulder v5-v7. Anything harder (requiring finger strength/ contact strength) feels incredibly intimidating because of my fear that’ll just injure myself.

I have tried hangboarding and no hangs off and on over the years, and currently use Emil’s no hang protocol via the crimpd app before every climbing session and sometimes on off days. I climb every other day for 1.5-2.5 hours including warm up. When I feel particularly tired I’ll take a second off day. I also deload often as I travel for work or I get particularly busy. I probably average a deload week once every other month. I’ve recently adopting icing my fingers daily, and I try to stretch them, and do tendon glides in hot shower. I supplement with protein powder, and try to eat healthy.

I try to just enjoy climbing without thinking about improving, but to be honest I really want to get better and see that reflected in my grades.

Over the last month I was starting to improve again until yesterday when I aggravated right middle A2 again. I feel like I’m stuck in a loop of constantly hurting myself, and my psych for climbing is starting to diminish.

Looking for advice from people who have been stuck in a similar loop and finally got out.

I apologize for the rant/ lack of structure in my post. Thanks to anyone who can share anecdotal experience / advice. I’m ready and willing to try anything.

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u/No-Job-5179 — 7 days ago

Advice to get genuinely good at heel hooks?

I’ve been climbing for a little over a decade on and off, and for most of that time I’ve hovered around the V9-10 range inside, past few years outside as well. By far my biggest weakness is heel hooks. I’m not naturally flexible, but I stretch regularly and have a decent level of at least passive hamstring flexibility. I’ve tweaked my hamstrings a few different times, worked with climbing PTs and although they are very strong and decently flexible on paper(very heavy deadlifts, single leg RDLs, Bulgarians) I find that pulling hard on heel hooks is like rolling the dice for injury. Hammy injuries take a while to heal and affect my quality of life significantly outside of climbing, so my risk tolerance is pretty low. I find myself actively avoiding hard projects with heel hooks due to this. As I try to push into harder V10-11, this really is limiting my outdoor project options.

Most of the climbers I know who are good at heel hooks never really did anything special for them. They just were already pretty flexible, did climbs with heel hooks, and naturally got better at them like any other climbing motion. For people who particularly struggled with them and now are sending V10+ heel hook boulders, what exercises do you think made the biggest difference? I feel like I’ve tried most of the typical PT for hamstrings, I warmup by heel hooking random spray wall boulders, but I haven’t found a consistently progressive movement that I can feel improvement from. Any advice from people with similar experiences is appreciated!

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u/npapa17 — 7 days ago

Ideas on maintaining strength for 4 months with no climbing for middle aged average climber

I'll be staying far away from any climbing, including gyms for four months soon.

I am an average climber across the board (bouldering, sport and Trad) and while I'll be ok-ish with just running for a while, I have noticed it's getting harder and harder to get back in shape as I'm getting older.

So hence my question: How do best keep my strength up for 4 months with no gym access? I can probably install a hangboard somewhere and create a basic setup for calisthenics.

I can design a basic hangboard protocol etc, but I would love to get some inspiration for how to approach this. Periodization of some kind, maybe?

And here is the faint hope: With a disciplined regiment can I actually get stronger during this period? Not expecting to come back at a higher level, but could I maybe build a base that makes me stronger than I am in the mid to long term? Or am I dreaming?

I climb 2-3 times weekly. Mostly bouldering inside or sport climbing outside. Current level is around 7a bouldering and 7A sport (or is it the other way around?) I do basic rehab/injury prevention maybe once a week or so.

EDIT: Also perhaps relevant, I do little to no specific climbing training at the moment and I barely ever have.

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u/dassieking — 7 days ago

Another review on the Hand of God's grippers, but this is about training

First of all, English is not my first language, so I may express myself poorly (I’m using a translator sometimes, not AI). Also, I am not a coach or a researcher. I have been coached for a few years, taken courses, read about the subject, and worked at a climbing gym, but my knowledge of the topic is limited.

Unlike other posts, this one is not about the product's ergonomics or design, but rather about the training plan Mobeta proposes in its app. When I bought the Micro, I had no idea what the app was like or what kind of plan it offered. When I looked into it, I was skeptical, mainly because the proposed protocols appear to contradict much of the established scientific literature (López & González-Badillo; Levernier & Laffaye; Anderson & Anderson; Eric Hörst, among others).

Despite my initial reservations, I gave the Micro a fair chance and used it regularly for five months, strictly following the app's instructions. Honestly, I like the Micro's design, particularly for me, since I climb on granite and the idea of improving my FDP strength specifically appealed to me. After a few months, I achieved what I interpreted as neural adaptations but then I plateaued.

Here are my thoughts on the programming itself:

1.      Basically, except for the power hangs, everything else in the Mobeta plan feels like endurance training. The proposed long-duration exercises (3-4 minute hangs) are analogous to continuous aerobic endurance tests. But the thing is, in durations exceeding one or two minutes, psychological factors—pain tolerance and mental fortitude—play a disproportionate role. This does not mean it is entirely useless; it is interesting to train the ability to withstand a continuous load for a long time. However, these long-duration hangs are quite inefficient for improving climbing-specific endurance. They suffer from low specificity when compared to the classic 7/3 method.

2.      The "complete the curve" approach promoted by the app does not seem to take into account the interference effect between different energy pathways within a training plan. For example, it makes no sense to be performing 4-minute aerobic hangs immediately before a max-intensity bouldering session, and the app blocks your hability to register sessions if you spent too much time withouth convering all the areas.

3.      To be fair, I believe these prolonged exercises would make perfect sense as tests to monitor progress, but not as workouts within a structured training plan. For a complete beginner, the "complete the curve" protocol might actually serve a purpose, it can build a foundational aerobic base and teach mental resilience. And, honestly, any stimulus is good stimulus for a beginner.

4.      I don’t buy the thing that you need to traing almost always with 60 second hangs and above. They even rule out every session where you perform under 20 seconds. Pedro Bergua, in his thesis, used 40-second hangs as a reference for testing. And that’s been established in every training program of every coach I met. Eva López and González-Badillo explicitly recommended protocols with 10-to-15-second max hangs. Even, when programming sub-max hangs they go up to 40-45 seconds in advanced individuals. Eric Hörst basically, follows Eva Lopez.

5.      I really doubt that training with such small loads actually provides enough stimulus to drive meaningful physiological adaptations. The literature suggests that intensity matters more than volume for maximal strength development. Sergio Consuegra emphasizes that training intensity for maximal finger strength should be 90-100% of what you can exert in a single repetition. Training below this threshold may not provide sufficient metabolic stress to trigger the adaptations that climbers need for high-intensity performance. Most of my gains I made were following this protocols, and there were not “fake” strength gains.

6.      I think, however, that in the context of rehab this low-intensity long-duration hangs may be useful. But these protocols (like the Abrahams or some others like the one proposed from Hörst) are either supplemental or rehabilitative. They are not intended as the primary training stimulus for healthy athletes seeking to maximize finger strength

In short terms, I like the Micro design, but I have a lot of doubts about the protocol and it’s usefulness.

I also should say that the app is designed, in theory, to train with both the Micro and Crusher, but I don’t see that invalidating any of the things I said.

I’m planning on buying the Crusher soon and train with them but in an old-fashion 4 week max hangs on the Crusher and then 4 weeks on the Micro and see the results. I’d love to see another reviews on the topic because I don’t know anybody else training with these devices.

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u/Organic-Shopping-517 — 11 days ago

How I Fixed My PIP Synovitis (After Years of Fighting It)

If you're dealing with PIP synovitis theres hope. I just got over a really long-term case of it and I'm climbing harder than ever now. Took time, but honestly I'm so glad I took the time to actually fix it instead of just climbing through it like I did for way too long.

Little background. Mine flared up a handful of years ago in my middle finger PIP. Became this persistent nagging thing. I never felt like I could truly try hard, there was always this background issue holding me back. So I tried taking a bunch of time completely off, but it always came back.

After a few cycles of that I decided I needed to try something new. And the plan I landed on is so fucking simple: load and volume management, ice after climbing, and wrapping the joint daily. Thats it. Nothing else helped. once I started this routine I saw incremental healing that just kept compounding month over month. It takes time though. plan on 6 to 8 months of actually sticking to it.

Where I started: creaks and pops in the joint when I did finger rolls, limited ROM, pain when I compressed the joint. Where I am now: I sometimes forget which finger was even the injured one, and theres no real visual difference between the joints anymore. Took about 8 months. And the whole time I still climbed hard, got more fit, lost zero strength or ability. So worth it.

Heres the full plan.

Load management is basically the whole thing. This is all that will ever heal it

A few basics:

  • No climbing is NOT the solution. Total rest let mine come right back every single time. You need controlled, managed loading.
  • If you need ibuprofen (other than a rare day here and there), you went too far. Let the pain be the signal, dont just medicate it away.
  • The moment you feel power drop, or fatigue, or finger strength/endurance going STOP. This is the single most important thing. You have to control the urge to push past that point, because pushing past it is literally what caused the injury in the first place.

MONTH 1

Dramatically cut load and intensity. Short sessions, like 45 min. No heavy fingerboarding. Warm up well.

My warmup was a fingerboard, feet on the ground, maybe 8 min of 10 seconds on / 20 seconds off pulls. Starting open hand and working toward half crimp. Nothing overly crimpy, and no board climbing at all this month.

Really listen to your body here. If you need two full days off between sessions, do it. what convinced me this was okay was taking an entire month and breaking it down week by week. I realized that if I took two days off between climbing versus one day off between climbing, I only lost about three days of training total per month, but my sessions were much better and my finger felt a lot better…totally worth it in my book

MONTH 2 - WHENEVER

Now you start building volume and intensity back, but slowly. Keep listening to your body.

  • Cap sessions around an hour at first.
  • Start adding board climbing back, but keep it SUPER SHORT — a few problems at first, and add more over months and months.
  • I kept board climbing to one day a week and only on the Kilter, since its way less fingery than Moon or Tension.
  • the second you feel power or strength or endurance start to drop STOP.

Stay consistent, take your rest. most of the time my schedule over 3 days was:

  1. Climb
  2. Weights
  3. Rest

this always gave my fingers a 2 day break between climbing days. now I’m back to a more normal 3 day a week Monday Wednesday Friday schedule but I listen to my body more and take more breaks. I also still always cut my sessions off the moment I feel my power and strength drop.

ICE + COBAN

After climbing, ice it. I just fill a glass with water and ice cubes and soak the finger for 10-20 min.

Then I wrap it lightly with Coban tape for somewhere around 2-6 hours a day, however long feels right or however much I feel like I need it. I really do think the Coban works. in my experience it pulls the inflammation out better than any medication. A climbing PT told me not to wear it overnight so I dont.

And again, no IB. Let the ice and the Coban do the anti-inflammatory work.

DIET AND SUPPS

Turmeric + collagen. No idea if it actually did anything, but I took both the whole way through. Also just focused on eating decent and drinking enough water.

WHAT DIDNT HELP

  • Complete time off. It came right back every time.
  • Tendon glides. They maybe helped a little? Honestly couldnt tell a real difference.
  • Massage.
  • Voodoo flossing
  • Contrast baths. I think icing is better.

Red light, flossing, massage, stretching, all that... its fine. Do it if you enjoy it. But it wont fix the actual problem. Load management is the only thing that actually heals it.

Plan is simple, it just needs patience and discipline:

  1. Deload, then ramp up slowly.
  2. Stop the instant performance drops.
  3. Ice + Coban after every session.
  4. Stay consistent for 6-8 months.

Thats it. Thats the plan. Stick with it.

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u/justin_photo — 10 days ago

Posterior vs anterior pelvic position

Are there any benefits on being on anterior pelvic tilt in climbing?

I always had terrible APT and duck feet throughout life due to sitting all day (Software engineer + No-life gamer back in the younger days) and one problem I always had was with my posterior chain. Always felt like I could not engage my core on overhangs. and even during indoor coordis I would be in a weird position with my ass super out of the wall which I felt like hampered my climbing a bit. One key takeaway was I never understood what people meant by "squeeze your glute".

I had a short break due to some injuries and spend time doing rehab + gym and then realized I could squeeze my glute only when I tilt my pelvis in a posterior position. Before this the only thing I manage to do was squeeze my erector? So I'm wondering if this is the position that I should permanently be in while climbing so I can properly utilize my glute and maintain my posterior chain.

TLDR: Is this the right way to look at this, always stay in the posterior pelvic tilt position so I can squeeze glutes or it's not that simple and there are benefits of being in anterior pelvic positions? Or both is wrong?

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u/Salt_Childhood_4016 — 8 days ago

Calling all old people! And I don’t mean 30somethings.

Hello! I’m 53 and my hands hurt. How are you all dealing with the pain? What works? I saw the doc and they said just general arthritis with some bone spurs and nothing can be done. What do you do when someone tells you that you are just getting old? I don’t feel like 53 is that old…

I’ve tried scaling back to 1 hard day a week, but unless I stop altogether my hands still hurt. I was climbing 3-4 days a week and I’m down to 2 or sometimes 3, including the hard session. I want to get back at it and start climbing more now that I know the rest doesn’t help.

It does help to do a very long warm up. Full body first, then a good time on wrists and hands including hangboard with resistance and then bodyweight.

Doc suggested icing after climbing. Has this helped anyone?

I have some arthritis crème but I don’t notice it working much.

I’m also dealing with the second pulley injury in two years, different fingers. I’d poke to get a good sustainable routine going as I come back from my injury.

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u/Low_Silly — 13 days ago
▲ 95 r/climbharder+1 crossposts

Climber Hand Pain Study - Anonymous Survey (link below)

Hi all,

My name is Kelly Tomasevich and I am a climber and an orthopaedic surgery resident at Washington University in St. Louis. Following graduation from residency next year, I am planning to pursue specialized training in hand surgery, and I hope to eventually provide operative and nonoperative treatment for climbers from the perspective of someone who also climbs.

I am working on research to create a heat map of hand pain in climbers, and to stratify hand pain based on age, climbing experience, training frequency, and disciplines of climbing. We are also looking at care seeking behavior of climbers with pain (whether people go see a medical professional) and the barriers that may exist to care in the climbing population.

The survey should take about 5 minutes and is a chance to share your experience climbing and your experience of any related wrist, hand, and finger pain or injuries. This is an anonymous survey with minimal risk and will not ask you for any personal information. This survey is for climbers aged 18 or older.

Survey Link

If you can pass this along to fellow climbers, competitive or recreational, that would be greatly appreciated. To protect your privacy, please do not comment on this post. 

If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to me at tomasevich@wustl.edu or at 314-699-2150.

Best,
Kelly

Edit: Repost for title to state link is below. Please note, if I could provide compensation I would. This study is not funded, and I am not getting paid anything extra for it either, nor is it a requirement for my program. It is a passion project and a merger of my interests, which may benefit our climbing community in the future. Thanks for reading!

u/MurkyKaleidoscope923 — 12 days ago

Weekly /r/climbharder Hangout Thread

This is a thread for topics or questions which don't warrant their own thread, as well as general spray.

Come on in and hang out!

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u/AutoModerator — 14 days ago