r/dancarlin

▲ 127 r/dancarlin

Buy the whole series, it's worth it

I see people talking about getting access to certain episodes. My advice is to buy access to the entire series.

Not only is it a great deal and worth it, but we want Dan to keep putting out as much content as he can, and paying for it can only help better facilitate that.

It's the only podcast I've ever paid for.

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u/civiljourney — 6 hours ago

[OC] The Jacksonville Jaguars and NASA's Space Shuttle were Doomed by the Same Disease

Full disclosure: I made this for a podcast produced by the law firm where I work. It’s demonetized, has no ads, and I had complete creative control... no sane legal marketing department would have authorized this.

Inspired by Dan, a love of history, and 30 years of Jaguars suffering, I made a 2½-hour vanity project intertwining the Jaguars’ history from 2003–16 with NASA’s post-Apollo era through the Columbia disaster.

Both were damaged by the same institutional disease: survival became proof that the system worked, the standard kept slipping, and eventually failure became normal.

The stakes aren’t equivalent, but the pathology is.

The comparison sounds insane. Give me ten minutes; I think you will enjoy it. Timestamps abound.

TL;DW summary in comments.

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u/KingJohnBasedow — 1 day ago

Europe is on fire

So what are the odds that the wildfires raging across France and Germany could set off all those lost WW1 munitions, resulting in No Man's Land actually becoming livable again?

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u/Mellero47 — 4 days ago

The Celtic "Beam Sea" versus the Macedonian Maserati

I'm a huge fan of Hardcore History and all things Dan Carlin; I've listened to every HH episode as it's come out since King Of Kings, almost every episode HHA, and most of the back catalogue. This current series has completely captured my attention since getting very into Greek and Macedonian history again.

I keep thinking, however, that Dan's (defensible) interpretation of Alexander's fortune (getting the keys to a gassed up Maserati) is at odds with his take on the Celts being "caught in a beam sea." After all, wouldn't Macedon fit that "partially cooked" description Dan gives the Latinizing Gauls? Trapped between the more barbarian Illyrians, Thracians, Paeonians, and even Epirotes and the more settled, wealthy, and sophisticates Greek city-states and kingdoms, to say nothing of the Persian Empire, why are we to envy Alexander but pity Vercingetorix? Why were the Celts devoid of their former barbarian toughness, but the Macedonians more than a match for their more "barbarous" neighbors on the field of battle?

It may be easy to say that Darius III was no Ceaser, but the King of King (as pointed out by Dan & elsewhere) had re-conquered Egypt and settled internal conflicts. And Rome was hardly the picture of stability in 55 BC, having just survived one protracted period of civil wars and on a collision course for another one.

In my opinion, Dan gets the Maserati part correct with the Macedonians but is broadly wrong about the Celts being "softer" because of their more settled lifestyle. But I'm curious if others have come to the same conclusion.

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u/OhEssYouIII — 5 days ago
▲ 4.1k r/dancarlin+2 crossposts

Mosh pit of horror. Legally speaking, if someone were killed, could the performer be charged?

u/Civil-Ideal-9490 — 12 days ago

Very disappointed in Dan during this episode (Nazi Tidbids)

He says Hitler was a good soldier. He was a messenger stationed behind the lines, and Thomas Weber went through the actual regimental records and found Hitler's own comrades called him a "rear-area pig."

He says Hitler decided to become a politician the moment he heard the war ended - gassed, blinded, weeping in a hospital bed, sudden political awakening. That's literally the Mein Kampf version, and Dan just repeats it like it's true. What actually happened: Hitler had no family, no job, no home after the war, so he just stayed in the army because it was the only place he'd ever belonged. That's what turned him into a spy in 1919 -they sent him to watch the German Workers' Party, and he only joined because they told him to. Using Mein Kampf as a source here is wild, it's Hitler's own propaganda written to build the myth of himself. Also the blindness was psychologically induced lol.

He says Hitler was a homeless vagabond in Austria. He had an orphan pension and help from his mother.

How can I trust anything else he says on any topic if he quotes someone's propaganda as Gospel.

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u/Berabrea — 8 days ago
▲ 4.2k r/dancarlin+9 crossposts

The Most Important Economic Object in Pre-Columbian North America Is This Rock from Licking County, Ohio

And before someone gets cute with me, this ain’t hyperbole. I’m not being fancy and describing a sexy gemstone. This was not a diamond. It was not an emerald. It is definitely not something that sounds expensive when you say it at a cocktail party. Try it. Say “flint chert” out loud. Sounds like a tween apparel item you’d only find at a Claire’s, doesn’t it? And now partygoers are afraid you are having a stroke. Congratulations.

No, this was a rock. A sedimentary rock, specifically, made of the same chemical compound as sand and window glass, found in a cow pasture in Licking County, Ohio, roughly forty miles east of Columbus. Now I, having described said rock, am flying in the face of Ohio’s General Assembly who, in 1965, looked at this rock and said, "Yes. This is our gemstone. This is the one." They put it in the Revised Code, Section 5.07 and said "Flint is the official gemstone of the state." Because, it turns out, it was traded as such, and is objectively worth more than any other gemstone an indigenous Eastern North American could come across.

For roughly twelve thousand years, from the moment the first Paleo-Indian hunter walked into what is now Ohio at the end of the last ice age through the collapse of one of the most sophisticated ceremonial networks in pre-Columbian North America around 400 CE, this rock was the most valuable thing on the North American continent east of the Mississippi. I’m not shitting you. That’s not an exaggeration. It was mined from hundreds of hand-dug pits along a six-square-mile ridgetop (Stout and Schoenlaub 1945, 79). It was shaped into tools so precise they could split a hair down the middle. It was carried by hand, on foot, without wheels, without horses, without roads, to archaeological sites in Louisiana, Florida, New York, Kansas, and everywhere in between, distances of five hundred to a thousand miles, because it was that good and people wanted it that badly (Knepper 2003, 3). And it powered a trade network that moved prestige goods across half of North America with a regularity and sophistication that most of us cannot achieve without Amazon Prime.

The Part Where We Explain How to Hit Your Rocks Correctly

I’d suggest low and slow with the heat, personally, but it depends on the high you’re loo-ooooooh, the chert. Riiiiight.

Chert is a sedimentary rock composed almost entirely of silica (silicon dioxide, SiO₂), the same compound that makes quartz, glass, opal, and the beach sand currently stuck between your toes (Stout and Schoenlaub 1945, 13). The difference between chert and all of those other things is its structure. Quartz forms big, visible, Instagrammable crystals. Glass is amorphous, with no crystal structure at all. Chert splits the difference: it is cryptocrystalline, meaning it is composed entirely of crystals, but the crystals are so microscopically small that you cannot see them without magnification (Stout and Schoenlaub 1945, 13). Each one is measured in micrometers. The word "cryptocrystalline" translates literally to "hidden crystals," which sounds like the title of a 2007 Enya album but is actually just a description of grain size.

This hidden crystal structure is the entire reason chert matters. When you strike a piece of chert with sufficient force at the correct angle, it breaks in smooth, curving, predictable patterns called conchoidal fractures (from the Latin concha, "shell," because the fracture surfaces look like the inside of a clamshell). Importantly, the fractures are predictable. A skilled knapper (someone who shapes stone by controlled fracturing; you can still do this for fun in competition, btw!) can tell before striking exactly where and how the stone will break. This means they can shape it into anything: a knife edge sharper than surgical steel, a scraper thin enough to shave hide, a projectile point that will punch through a mastodon's ribcage, a drill bit that will bore clean through bone (Stout and Schoenlaub 1945, 7). Chert is, for practical purposes, a programmable stone material. You tell it what shape to be by hitting it correctly, and it becomes that shape, whereas most stone will chip or crack.

Flint, by the way, is chert. There is no mineralogical distinction between the two. It’s the same shit you burn your friend’s house down in Minecraft by striking steel. Geologists traditionally use "flint" for chert that forms as nodules within chalk or limestone, but the material is chemically and structurally identical (Stout and Schoenlaub 1945, 13). This is the geological equivalent of the "is it a grilled cheese or a melt" argument, and it matters exactly as much, which is to say it matters deeply to a small number of people and not at all to everyone else. This is unlike the “is a hotdog a sandwich?” question, which determines, among other things, your marriage prospects, future career, and how roasted you’ll be in the comments for calling a burrito a sandwich.

So how does a rock made of hidden crystals form in the first place? Through a process called diagenesis, which is geology's way of saying "other stuff slowly turned into this stuff over millions of years." Specifically, silica-bearing fluids percolated through existing layers of limestone (which is calcium carbonate, made from the accumulated shells and skeletons of marine organisms, aka it’s a stone made of fucking prehistoric skeletons). Over millions of years, the silica replaced the calcium carbonate molecule by molecule, atom by atom, converting a rock made of dead sea creatures into a rock made of glass (Stout and Schoenlaub 1945, 12). The silica itself often originated from a different set of dead sea creatures, like the dissolved skeletons of sponges, radiolarians, and other siliceous organisms whose tiny glass support structures broke down after death and went into solution. In the case of Ohio's Vanport formation, this replacement happened in limestone roughly 320 million years old, from the Pennsylvanian period (Ohio Department of Natural Resources; Stout and Schoenlaub 1945, 71).

You are, in a very real sense, looking at a rock made from the ghosts of two separate ecosystems layered on top of each other. The ocean died twice to make this rock.

Nature is metal as fuck.

Now, most chert is not pretty. Most chert is gray, or brown, or a dishwater gray-brown that geologists describe with words like "undistinguished" and the rest of us describe by walking past it. It is the beige Toyota Camry of the mineral world: functional, ubiquitous, and invisible.

Flint Ridge chert is not most chert. Flint Ridge chert is what happens when you let some cholos get their hands on a Camry.

The Vanport flint at Flint Ridge, OH, occurs in colors that have no business existing in a sedimentary rock formed at the bottom of a Carboniferous sea, let alone a random patch of Ohio farmland. Translucent blues, deep reds, vivid yellows, greens, lavenders, pinks, and whites, all banded together in swirling, layered patterns that look less like geology and more like someone marbled a wedding cake with food coloring and then turned it to stone (Stout and Schoenlaub 1945, 11). The color variation comes from trace mineral impurities trapped during silicification. Iron oxides produce the reds and yellows, organic carbon produces the blacks and grays, and various trace elements contribute the blues, greens, and lavenders that make this material immediately identifiable in any archaeological assemblage anywhere on the continent. Heat treatment, which Hopewell knappers practiced deliberately, intensifies the colors further, deepening reds and bringing out blues and lavenders that were invisible in the raw stone. They figured out that if you buried the rock in sand and slowly heated it, the colors got better and the fracture mechanics improved.

They were heat-treating stone to improve its engineering properties and its aesthetics simultaneously. This is three hundred years before the Roman Empire, by the way, on a ridgetop in Ohio. Don’t say they didn’t know what the fuck they were doing with stone. Just because they weren’t building with it doesn’t mean they weren’t fucking geniuses with it.

The deposit sits along a low escarpment in gently rolling farm country, straddling the Licking-Muskingum county line. The flint-bearing stratum runs in a discontinuous band roughly six square miles in extent, varying in thickness from one foot to twelve feet, with an average of around four (Stout and Schoenlaub 1945, 79). In many places, the chert outcrops at or near the surface, which meant that prehistoric peoples could mine it without the deep-shaft technology that characterized Neolithic flint mines in Europe. Instead, they dug pits. Hundreds of them. The pits range from twelve to eighty feet in diameter; a few are as deep as twenty feet, though most sit between three and six (Ohio History Connection, "Ohio's First Industry"). Gerard Fowke, surveying the ridge for the Smithsonian in the 1890s, estimated that roughly nine-tenths of the flint carried from the quarry pits was rejected as inadequate (Ericson and Purdy 1984, 5). The waste flakes alone (the debitage left behind during twelve thousand years of tool production) form a layer across the ridge floor that is an industrial landfill predating industry by about eleven and a half millennia.

The Hopewell did not invent the quarry. People had been coming to Flint Ridge since the Paleo-Indian period, at least 13,000 years ago (Kern and Wilson 2014, 14). But the Hopewell industrialized it.

The Part Where Ohio’s Pretty Rock Organizes Half a Continent Around a Ridgetop

But Flint Ridge chert traveled. Not because rocks travel on their own (they do not; they are rocks), but because people picked it up, worked it into tools and tradeable blanks, and carried it extraordinary distances on foot. By the Middle Woodland period, roughly 200 BCE to 400 CE, when the Hopewell ceremonial complex was operating at full capacity, Flint Ridge material had been identified at archaeological sites from the Great Lakes to the Gulf Coast, from the Atlantic Seaboard to Kansas (Knepper 2003, 3; Kern and Wilson 2014, 36). It has been recovered in Louisiana, in Florida, and in New York. The material is so visually distinctive, those polychrome bands of blue and red and cream, that archaeologists can identify it on sight, and geochemical sourcing studies using neutron activation analysis and X-ray fluorescence have confirmed what the naked eye already suggested: this rock comes from one place on Earth, and that place is a ridgetop in Licking County, Ohio (Prufer and McKenzie 1967, 115, 136).

Now, how did the rock travel? The Hopewell Interaction Sphere.

Personally, I hate this term. A lot of other archaeologists and historians hate it, too, because it was not a trade network as we envision often. The Interaction Sphere was not an empire. It was not a state. It had no capital, no written laws, no coinage, no standing army, and no centralized government. It was a network: a web of exchange relationships, shared ritual practices, shared artistic traditions, and shared mortuary customs that linked communities across eastern North America for roughly six hundred years with a consistency that implies a level of social organization far more sophisticated than "people traded stuff sometimes" (Seeman 1979, 1-5). The Ohio Hopewell sat at the center of this Sphere, organized around the Hopewell Ceremonial Earthworks. You can still visit them today (as I’ve described in a post previously about the unhinged process to reclaim the land). The Scioto Valley, in southern Ohio, functioned as the hub (Kern and Wilson 2014, 39).

The goods that moved through this network constitute a geological atlas of eastern North America's most desirable raw materials. There’s native copper from the upper Great Lakes, pounded (not smelted) into sheets, earspools, breastplates, and artificial noses. There’s mica from the western Carolinas, cut into human and animal effigies so delicate they can be held up to the light. There’s obsidian from the Yellowstone Plateau in Wyoming, which is roughly 1,500 miles from the Ohio Valley, carried overland to be fashioned into ceremonial blades so thin they are translucent. There’s silver from near Cobalt, Ontario. There’s marine shells, shark teeth, and alligator teeth from the Gulf Coast and Florida. Grizzly bear canines from the Rocky Mountains. Chalcedony from North Dakota. Galena from Missouri and Illinois (Kern and Wilson 2014, 39; Milner 2020, 78-80). The list goes on and on.

And then there’s Flint Ridge chert, the rainbow rock, as Ohio's contribution to this transcontinental exchange system, quarried on an industrial scale, worked into standardized forms, and distributed across half a continent.

Two of the hundreds of burials at the Hopewell type site (the site the entire tradition is named after) contained a young adult male and an adult woman accompanied by foot-long copper rods, copper bracelets, fifty copper earspools, a necklace of grizzly bear canines inlaid with pearls, several large copper plates, scores of copper-covered buttons, artificial copper noses, and hundreds of freshwater pearl beads (Kern and Wilson 2014, 36). Alongside all of this are found Flint Ridge bladlets.

Bladelet’s are batshit insane the more you learn about them. A bladelet is a small, thin, parallel-sided flake of stone, typically two to five centimeters long and less than a centimeter wide, struck from a specially prepared cylindrical core using either direct percussion or pressure flaking. The production requires a level of skill that borders on absurd: the knapper prepares a core with a flat striking platform and a series of guide ridges running down its length, then removes bladelets one after another by striking or pressing at the platform edge. Each bladelet peels off the core in a long, thin strip, like peeling a carrot if the carrot were made of stone and required several thousand hours of apprenticeship to peel correctly.

The Hopewell made bladelets constantly. They made them from Flint Ridge chert, from Wyandotte chert (southern Indiana), and from Knife River flint (North Dakota; because apparently no distance was too far for a nice rock). In one study of 128 bladelets from Hopewell sites, roughly 25 percent were Flint Ridge material. At Ohio sites specifically, the proportion was higher: 48 percent Flint Ridge, 46 percent Wyandotte, 2 percent Knife River flint (Ohio History Connection, "Bladelets, Flint Ridge Flint, and the Hopewell Interaction Sphere"). Core-and-bladelet technology is considered a quintessential marker of the Hopewell Interaction Sphere, one of the practices that links otherwise disparate communities across eastern North America into a recognizable shared cultural tradition.

But what were the bladelets for? We don’t fucking know. 

Cutting things. Scraping things. Possibly ritual activities. Possibly functions we have no way of recovering because the organic materials they were used on decomposed thousands of years ago. A variety of purposes have been proposed, and the argument has been going on for decades with no resolution in sight (Ohio History Connection). My personal favorite is Dr. Brad Lepper’s, (yep, that Lepper! Guinness Book of World Records Lepper!) who has envisioned them as the equivalency of a gift shop tourist trap: it was the way to tell you’d been at the Hopewell sites. All we know is that the bladelets were made, were traded, and were deposited in graves and ceremonial contexts.

And the Hopewell did not merely trade Flint Ridge chert. They cached it in mounds with their most honored dead. They made bifaces (tools worked on both faces) from the most colorful material they could find, shaped them into standardized forms too uniform and too finely made for daily use, and deposited them in mortuary contexts alongside copper, mica, obsidian, and pearls (Milner 2020, 78-80). This was rock special enough to bury as an offering.

The Hopewell came to Flint Ridge with a specialized labor force, quarried the material on an industrial scale, reduced it to bifaces, cores, and bladelets, packed them up, and carried them fifteen miles west to the Newark Earthworks, where they were exchanged or given as gifts to visiting pilgrims from across the network (Prufer and McKenzie 1967, 23; Ohio History Connection, "Ohio's First Industry"). The proximity of Flint Ridge to the Newark Earthworks, the largest Hopewell ceremonial complex in existence, sprawling over four square miles, is not coincidental. The earthworks include a great circle, a square whose perimeter matches the circle's, and a fifty-acre octagon whose openings align with the 18.6-year cycle of maximum and minimum moonrises and moonsets (Kern and Wilson 2014, 37-39). This is a giant world ceremonial clock embedded in earth as instruments of geometry and astronomy, built one basketful of earth at a time, taking an estimated 200,000 person-hours per mound (Kern and Wilson 2014, 36), by people whose most ubiquitous trade good was a rainbow-colored rock from a ridgetop down the road. Oh, and Newark was one of thousands of mound sites spanning from Chillicothe, OH, to Newark, OH. It was the pilgrimage destination of North America.

The Hopewell Ceremonial Earthworks are among the most significant pre-Columbian constructions anywhere on the planet (Kern and Wilson 2014, 37), and they ran on Flint Ridge chert the way Silicon Valley runs on venture capital. It was the prestige commodity that attracted people, funded ceremonies, and kept the whole system turning.

The Part Where It's the End of the Rainbow

Around 400 CE, the Hopewell ceremonial system collapsed (Kern and Wilson 2014, 40). The earthwork complexes were abandoned. the exchange networks contracted, and the flow of exotic materials slowed to a trickle and then stopped.

Paleoclimatologists identified a prolonged cooling period beginning around 1,600 years ago. Tree ring data show that the Hopewell core area suffered an extended drought: seventy percent of the years from 396 to 460 CE were drier than normal, with extreme drought years in 398, 420, and 436 (Kern and Wilson 2014, 40). Population pressure from the Hopewell florescence itself may have overtaxed available food resources in a period of declining productivity (Abrams and Freter 2005, 40-44). DNA analysis has shown that the populations living in southern Ohio after the Hopewell collapse were not closely related to the Hopewell themselves. The closest known genetic match to Ohio Hopewell DNA comes from a burial mound in central Illinois dating to roughly seven hundred years later (Kern and Wilson 2014, 40). 

The Hopewell did not simply decline in place. They left. And where they went, and why, is among the most significant unanswered questions in North American archaeology today.

The quarries at Flint Ridge continued to be used during the Late Woodland period and beyond, but never again at the scale the Hopewell had achieved (Kern and Wilson 2014, 41). Late Woodland peoples still valued the material, still traveled to the ridge to obtain it, and still made tools and weapons from it. But the continental distribution network was gone. The rock that had traveled a thousand miles now traveled only a hundred. The prestige economy it had anchored evaporated.

Flint Ridge is still there. The Ohio History Connection maintains it as Flint Ridge Ancient Quarries and Nature Preserve. You can walk the trail between the old quarry pits, which look like shallow depressions in the forest floor, unremarkable unless someone tells you that each one represents a mining operation sustained across centuries. The museum displays pieces of the chert in all its polychrome glory, not like something you'd find in the dirt next to a cornfield.

Archaeologist Barbara Luedtke, studying the ridge for her contribution to Prehistoric Quarries and Lithic Production, calculated the total demand for lithic material in stone-tool-using cultures and concluded that flint procurement was, for most communities, "a rather casual, mundane, and low-labor-intensive activity" (Ericson and Purdy 1984, 65). Most people needed a few kilograms of workable stone per household per year, and could procure it walking along a river creek bed like that one in only a few hours of labor for the entire year. The fact that the Hopewell organized specialized labor forces to quarry Flint Ridge on an industrial scale, standardized their products, and distributed them across a continent tells you that whatever was happening at Flint Ridge transcended utility. You do not carry a rainbow-colored rock a thousand miles because you need a knife. You carry it because it means something. Because the network that produced it means something. Because the relationships it maintains, the ceremonies it enables, the dead it accompanies, all of those things mean something far larger than the object itself.

So you know what? Fuck diamonds. Fuck emeralds. Ohio’s got chert for days, baby.

Works Cited (for those who to hit some silicon dioxide at the end of a long work day)

Abrams, Elliot Marc, and AnnCorinne Freter. The Emergence of the Moundbuilders: The Archaeology of Tribal Societies in Southeastern Ohio. Athens: Ohio University Press, 2005.

Ericson, Jonathon E., and Barbara A. Purdy, eds. Prehistoric Quarries and Lithic Production. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1984. Chapter cited: Luedtke, Barbara E., "Lithic Material Demand and Quarry Production," 65-80.

Holmes, William Henry. Handbook of Aboriginal American Antiquities, Part I: Introductory, the Lithic Industries. Bureau of American Ethnology Bulletin 60. Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian Institution, 1919.

Kern, Kevin F., and Gregory S. Wilson. Ohio: A History of the Buckeye State. 2nd ed. Malden, MA: Wiley, 2014.

Knepper, George W. Ohio and Its People. Bicentennial ed. Kent, OH: Kent State University Press, 2003.

Milner, George R. The Moundbuilders: Ancient Societies of Eastern North America. 2nd ed. London: Thames & Hudson, 2020.

Ohio Department of Natural Resources. "Flint." Discover and Learn: Rock, Minerals, Fossils. https://ohiodnr.gov/discover-and-learn/rock-minerals-fossils/minerals/flint.

Ohio History Connection. "Bladelets, Flint Ridge Flint, and the Hopewell Interaction Sphere." Archaeology Blog, December 7, 2014. https://www.ohiohistory.org/bladelets-flint-ridge-flint-and-the-hopewell-interaction-sphere/.

Ohio History Connection. "Ohio's First Industry: The Archaeology of Flint Ridge." Archaeology Blog. https://www.ohiohistory.org/ohios-first-industry-the-archaeology-of-flint-ridge/.

Prufer, Olaf H., and Douglas H. McKenzie, eds. Studies in Ohio Archaeology. Cleveland: Press of Western Reserve University, 1967.

Seeman, Mark F. The Hopewell Interaction Sphere: The Evidence for Interregional Trade and Structural Complexity. Indiana Historical Society Prehistory Research Series 5, no. 2. Indianapolis: Indiana Historical Society, 1979.

Stout, Wilber, and Robert A. Schoenlaub. The Occurrence of Flint in Ohio. Geological Survey of Ohio Bulletin 46. Columbus: State of Ohio, 1945.

Picture Credit: Vanport Flint, James St. John

u/MotherOfLawyers — 14 days ago

Best of all?

I keep getting recommendations for Hardcore History, and I'm ready to dive in. What is the BEST episode to start with, and is this different from your FAVORITE?

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u/woodland_rapscallion — 12 days ago

This is from June but totally flew under my radar- Dan interviewed on David Sirota’s “Master Plan”. Great interview, in case you also missed it..

u/hughjazz45 — 10 days ago

Anyone been here since the beginning?

So I recently bought the entire collection and have been going through it from the beginning over the last couple of months, and in one early episode he briefly mentions how Hollywood is making a movie about the Spartans and the Battle of Thermopylae. It took me a moment to realise he was talking about 300, and it really hit home how long he's been doing this.

I got into his show back during lockdown, so it got me curious if anyone here is one of the early fans he talks a lot about in the first episodes? Must have been a pain waiting for so long between episodes for the past 20 years if so!

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u/CommenceToDancing — 12 days ago

Who is Alexander in your movie?

So I relistened to the entire series as I'm recovering from a pretty big surgery and there's all these hinge points where there's room to fill in the blanks of who this guy actually was that I find interesting.

I'm just wondering who is he in your version of events? It's almost like a choose your own adventure role-playing type of thing. Did he have a hand in his father's death? Did he get a setback at the River Granicus? How did he untie the Gordian Knot? Was he a bad guy at Thebes or should the fact that he offered clemency be seen as a get out of infamy free card? Was he trying to honor the League or merely set it up to where he would get what he want? What sources are you respecting more and which seem absurd?

So far I've got almost a Ferris Bueller type character who's probably wily, charming, thuggish, overbearing, with anger spikes, and an almost sexual desire to conquer. Almost as if the culture and his upbringing was like how the Roman's created a society where the elites would do anything for their achievement and ambition for the glory of the Republic and their families. It's kind of fun imagining someone like him with that same incredible ambition in a humanitarian sense. Imagining if the culture he was raised in was some highly enlightened one that put the welfare of their fellow mankind on the same level as Achilles.

May be all propaganda, lies, hyperbole, etc... but this series has been fun since I knew next to nothing of Alexander besides the movie version with Angelina Jolie. I wonder who this person will look like in my eyes at the end of all this.

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u/Mountain-Papaya-492 — 12 days ago

Can I buy in bulk?

Hi everyone,

I bought a few years ago the full Dan Carlin package, just after Blueprint for Armageddon. So I own them all from 1 to 55.

Now I wan to relisten to 56+ King of Kings. I see I have to pay.

  1. Do I have to pay for each episode/small pack individually or can I buy something like 20 at a time?

  2. If I buy the full pack $99 does it include the future episodes?

I give a buck a show on Patreon since 2021 but I'm not sure if I have a RSS link hidden somewhere.

Thanks for your help!

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u/devildread — 11 days ago

Got some Mania for Subjugation questions

Heya all,

I just finished the latest Mania for Subjugation and for the last two I've had some lingering thoughts and questions that are just bothering me. I hope some of you can discuss them with me or have more info for me.

I loved the beginning of the series and really hoped to get an idea of why Alexander was this great General, but as we move to the war against the Persians I'm more and more lost. I know that there's a lot of historical material on this will all kinds of biases, the ancients authors who'll say there's like a million Persians but they're all cowards, to more modern authors trying to fix this, but with the Persian battles I still feel I don't get a view of the Persian side. Like this wasn't an incompetent dying empire, nor were the Greeks/Macedonians some kind of surprise to the Persians, nor were the Persians unused to war; And yet I feel very little analysis about why they're losing so badly.

There's two specific things I've noticed and keep milling over, and I'm curious if people who read along with the sources (I don't) know more about this, I'm just so confused as to why these two things don't get any mentions:

One The battle of the Granicus

There's repeated (repeated very often, which is part of why this keeps bothering me) mentions of just not understanding why the Persians would keep back their infantry. Except this seems quite clear to me? If you're the Persians you know Alexander has high quantities of high quality heavy infantry. Heavy infantry that can out-fight the Greek heavy infantry that Persians specifically hire for their skills as heavy infantry.

You also know that once an infantry line engages in battle it can't really disengage, it has to rout the enemy or be routed.

You also know that Alexanders strategy in the past has just been to smash the heavy infantry line into the enemy and win.

So... You deny him that ability. Cavalry can disengage. Persians have more cavalry and no real reason to assume Greek cavalry is that much better than theirs. You force their army to deploy in line and then harass them all the way to the infantry line where you can surround them with cavalry on 3 sides.

The way the battle was explained the only reason this tactic didn't work is because Alexander cut his way through the enemy and killed many leaders. It shouldn't really have been possible to rout a cavalry army with a much smaller cavalry force, cavalry is used to disengaging and turning around and they don't have to throw away their weapons when running away.

So why this mystery as to why the battle was fought that way? That's how I'd fight Alexander if I was a Persian general!

This bring me to question 2:

Two In both the battle of the Granicus as the battle of Issus it seems like the Persians are doing fine, or even winning, until Alexander and the Companion cavalry personally start slaughtering enemy leaders, sometimes if I hear the story correctly, penetration deep into and behind enemy lines.

In both victories these seem to me to be the distinct tactics, not the 16 foot spears, not the location, not the defenses, not the makeup or positioning of both armies. I also don't know of any other (I'm not in any way well read on this) battles where explicitly taking huge risk to kill the enemy leaders is such an important part, like it happens in the Illiad but in other fights even though the leaders lead from the front and risk death it doesn't feel like there's just a specific unit with the sole job of cutting their way to them and killing them.

Am I wrong and is this just normal and therefore not mentioned? Because I can't even get over the how, we'll spend hours on these battles and then its just "Yeah the companion cavalry slaughtered their way through a force twice their size and killed the leaders" without discussing why the companion cavalry seems to be an almost godlike assassin unit. Nowhere in the series have I heard any debate or explanation on why the Companion cavalry would so outclass their Persian counterparts that it's a valid tactic to just send them straight at the enemy leader, without any mention of the very real risk of them getting surrounded and killed by a numerically superior foe.

At the battle of Issus it sounds like that behind the cavalry there's infantry units turning around and moving back to save other infantry units that are getting flanked. At that point you're losing, going full force ahead at a single point of the line with just cavalry is a huge risk! But it's hardly mentioned.

Why are we even discussing these battles for hours if eventually the sole thing that's happening is the cavalry will cut their way to the leader, kill or rout them, and the battle is over. Or, why aren't we talking about that bit more!

I guess both these things have me missing some Persian side of things. The Persians weren't stupid, they were rich and established, they'd have experienced generals who'd have gotten the order to set up an army, and develop a tactic, specifically to defeat Alexander. They would know how Alexander's army looked, they'd know how they'd fight. They weren't underestimating Alexander as this is apparently the first time in 150 years the royal army is sent to the field. They were used to fighting Greeks, and did in fact hire Greeks, this isn't a situation like the Mongol army hitting European armies who didn't have a clue what's going on.

And yet both battles are treated like the Persians were this bumbling bunch who just showed up with the wrong units, set up weirdly, and never expected the tactic of "Running towards us really fast with spears" when that's pretty much what Alexander and his father did every time.

I'm probably not explaining it right and this must be a slog to read through, thanks if you did, I'm just hoping someone can explain a bit or give me some perspective so this doesn't bother me the entire 5th and following episodes :)

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u/Timmetie — 12 days ago

Create you own?

I am a little nervous about posting here as sometimes this r/ can be a little ruthless….

As many of you in this r/ you absolutely love Dan Carlin’s many works. For me personally even though I enjoy Common Sense I started listening to Dan during his great hiatus with Common Sense. I found Dan in like 2018 on Rogan (I think?) and was ecstatic hearing about his Hard Core History Show and Wrath of the Kahn’s.

Since 2020 I have done a fun thing where I about once a year work through Dan’s HH episodes in chronological order as best I can while waiting for new episodes. I was actually in the middle of Death Throes I when he dropped Mania IV the other day. I learn so much and find so much joy in Hardcore History. Dan’s approach to topics are fantastic and as a life long fan of history he’s helped me approach learning and thinking about history from different perspectives. Of course my praises of Dan’s work aren’t really a surprise to any of you but — it has gotten me thinking.

I often see post ( think I have made one myself in the past) about people looking for more HH ~esque content. Because of Dan’s unique approach and effective dramatic flair there’s often much argument about whether or not anything actually compares. Even though I have seen great recommendations from many of you to help others supplement their HH fix we all know there is little out there that holds a candle. But sometimes other topics on history podcasts or books help scratch the interest itch — it has made me wonder how many of you have actually tried to take a stab at making your own?

I obviously do not mean make a generic version of Hardcore History or any of Dan’s works but from your individual, hopefully unique perspective try to do what Dan does in concept?

Dan does a great job at looking at a person, era, or people group especially in an era and say “What makes them like everyone but more so?” Or “I want to share with everyone why this is so interesting to me.”

Have you ever thought of doing that? If so how far did you get? How daunting was it?

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u/Human-Worldliness706 — 11 days ago

The Regime Durability Variable: Four Frameworks on Ending Authoritarian Capture From Within

Wasn't sure where to go to ask history minded folks for their opinion...

What do you all think?

open.substack.com
u/Opposite-Mountain255 — 14 days ago

Is it remotely possible the "sea peoples" were Javanese?

The attack on Egypt by accounts happened 1500 years before the height of the Javanese empire but seems there's accounts of sailing well before that.

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u/walk2daocean — 14 days ago