r/dragonball

So I know this sounds super out of nowhere but this is something that is brought up in the original Z Sub and it's something I find interesting

For Context: During what I believe to be a Filler Episode, Nappa and Vegeta discuss Gohan's sudden burst of power during the Raditz fight, intrigued Nappa asks Vegeta if they should consider creating more Hyrbids in order to essentially refurbish and create more powerful Saiyans, but Vegeta shuts it down very quickly with almost these exact words "But then we'd have a bunch of powerful Saiyans wondering why they're taking orders from us"

So what I am proposing is, what if Vegeta and Nappa decided to go along with that plan in order to create an Army strong enough to rival Frieza? How would that change the story? Please give me your best discussions

For the first part of my question, I've got some ideas(these aren't that original I'm sure)

SSJ grades are fine, they are meant to show improvement over time, though I think a better idea for the Cell Saga would be for Gohan to have beaten Cell in SSJ. not 2, so instead, he manages to unlock SSJ during the fight, and easily beat Cell, it would show just how much Gohan outclasses everyone, he has the same form, but completely dismantles a villain everyone else can't do anything to

Then, obviously, SSJ2 is something Goku and Vegeta unlock during the time-skip to surpass the lazy Gohan, SSJ 3 basically does nothing anyway and doesn't win, so it's fine to have that come later

SSJ3, I would have as a form Goku unlocked during the time-skip between Buu and BoG. Goku would use it against Beerus, and it would be shown to us that SSJ just isn't going to cut it anymore

He gets God, which imo, should have its own special powers, healing, seeing directly into peoples souls, maybe even some Kai powers

Blue should be introduced during the Universe 6 arc, with Goku using it to beat Hit

Then I think everything else is fine(though I'd have Vegeta use a proto version of Ultra Ego, rather than Evolution)

Forms/Upgrades for everyone else

Roshi, if we wanted to bring him back into the story, which, going by the TOP and Moro arc, seems to be what the writer is going for, should just be the first human, and second mortal to unlock Ultra Instinct

Krillin should get Ultimate, or perhaps a human form, "Super Human", he has the most potential after all

Yamcha is lazy, and I feel like he'd jump at the opportunity to get an easy power-up, what would it be? Becoming an android, Infinite energy, energy drain and biological enhancements

Tien shouldn't get a form, he should be the techinque master, Yardrat, King Kai, Supreme Kai, Namekain magic, everything, he should learn EVERYTHING

So how do the clans work. This is what I know for certain. Clans are a real thing, and not just a title beacous namakian fusion requires them to be of the same class, Piccolo and Kami bring the exception. Two Guru birthed all the Namakians on Namek, and they are mostly civilians with the exception of Nail and Dende. Picolo is a warior clan despite the original being a dragon clan. So when a namakian is born, their clan is randomized, and Piocolo Sr might have counted as a new birth as he was removed from Kami. Picolo Jr. kept his warrior clan abilities as he was a reincarnation. Now, is that how it works? So civilians are just normal people and are common. Warriors are optimized for battle and rare. And Dragon clan is magical and the leaders and ultra rare. Please correct me if I got anything wrong or if you have different views than me.

I saw a post asking about what would happen if Tienshinhan hit Frieza with the KiKoFuckYourself.

It made me think. First of all that it wouldn’t stop Frieza anymore than it did Cell, even if you used Cell Saga Tien.

Frieza is the most durable person on the show without regenerative abilities. Cell, Buu and Piccolo have the power to heal themselves. So while they may have more vitality or some other word, I think the word DURABLE goes to the young Emperor.

Look what he survived on Namek. Look what he survived in the Tournament of Power.

HE ENDURED LITERAL DESTRUCTION.

Argue with me

Edit:
Thanks for the arguments I had fun today. Nobody convinced me at all. Sure you can say Tien’s stronger, but there is no evidence that his Tri Beam or Neo Tri Beam can kill Frieza.

There is no way you guys think that move is stronger than the Super Spirit Bomb or the explosion of Namek. Frieza survived those and more within *5 minutes* of each other.

Shin Kikoho does NOT compare to those. Just because it stalled someone stronger than Frieza doesn’t mean you can say it would kill Frieza of all people.

Dragonball fans do not read 😭😭😭

I also posted this in another Dragonball sub.

While watching dbs broly, i noticed that frieza's planet destroying ball took away bardocks armour and his underwear could still be seen.

Meanwhile, in the broly gogeta fight, brolys armour isn't even dented until gogeta does an attack that literally destroys space (high multiversal level feat from my goat).

Does this mean that saiyan underwear is actually stronger than their armour, if yes then why don't they just ditch the armour and just tape underwear all over themselves?

I would attach relevant pics but reddit doesn't allow image pasting

I honestly liked all the dbs filler when I watched it especially the baseball episode so I wish that all of the filler is preserved in dbs though it will be unlikely considering DBZ Kai removed most of the filler except for a few filler characters

We measured the MVP on influence, impact compared to strength and did they reach their goal?
We gave minimum MVPs to overarching villians
We followed a mix of the anime and manga for this
Hope for feedback

DB:
Emporer Pilaf arc-Bulma
21st Tb - Master Roshie
Red Ribbon Army Arc - Bulma
22nd TB Arc - Tien
Piccolo Arc - Tambourine
23rd TB -Piccolo MJ

DBZ
Saiyan Saga:
Raditz Arc - Piccolo
Nappa Arc - Piccolo
Vegeta Arc - Krillin

Namek Saga:
Namek Saga (Initial)- Vegeta (HM: Gohan and Krillin
Ginyu Force Arc - Vegeta (HM: Gohan and Krillin
Frieza Arc - Vegeta/Gohan (HM: Dende and Krillin

Cell Saga
Future Trunks Arc - F Trunks
Initial Android Arc - Android 20/ F Trunks
Android Arc - Android 18/Android 17 (HM: Trunks)
Cell Saga - Gohan (HM: Tien, A16and Cell)
Future Timeline Arc (Initial) - F Gohan
Future timeline Arc (After Cell) - F Trunks

Majin Saga
Great Saiyaman Arc - Gohan
World Tournament Arc- Spopovich/Kid Trunks
Majin Arc Arc - Dabura
Majin Vegeta Arc- Vegeta
Majin Buu Arc - Majin Buu (HM: Evil Buu/ Hercules
Super Buu Arc - Super Buu
Vegito Arc - Vegito
Kid Buu - Hercules/Vegeta ( 49.5/50.5) HM: Kid Buu
End Of Z- Uub

DBS
GoD Arc - Vegeta
RoF Arc - Vegeta
U6 Arc- Hit/Beerus

Zeno Saga
Future Trunks Arc - Goku Black (Not Zamasu) ( HM: F Trunks and Bulma)
ToP Arc - Jiren (HM: Kale, Master Roshi, Frieza, Android 17)

Broly Arc - Broly (HM: Cheelai)

Universe 6:
Galactic Patrol Arc - Moro (HM: Merus)
Granolah Arc - Granolah
Gas Arc - Elec

Super Hero Saga:
High School Arc - Trunks
Super Hero Movie - Gohan

GT
Grand Tour Arc - Pan
Baby Arc - Baby
Super 17 Arc - 17 (HM: 18)
Shadow Dragons Arc- Omega Shenron

Top MVPs:
Gohan 4x
Piccolo 3x
Vegeta 7x
F Trunks 3x

I mean it makes sense to get your own powerup since Buu is clearly now leagues above. Going SSJ probably would've filled the power gap. Am I missing something here?

I read that at the beginning of the Buu saga, during Gohan's time at school, Toriyama was testing Gohan as the protagonist. So, what would Dragon Ball be like if he had followed through with that? Goku doesn't return, and Gohan remains the main character.

Exactly how many times has Krillin been called a Cue Ball? It just seems that everyone immediately jumps to that name whenever they try to goad him.

which version of super saiyan 4 do you think is better GT or diama. personally i think GT SSJ4 looks so mucg better then Diama.

So if you remember;

Ultra ego is basically a form/technique that makes the user stronger with damage. Destruction in mindset,

Etc,

and rose form is the same thing, Goku black is destructive has no regret, and gets stronger with damage,

Even their hair colour is similar, pink and purple.

This means; rose is ultra ego but a weaker version he uses,

As the title says, I grew up on the Dub and having Sean as my titular version of Goku during my childhood. When I first heard Masako as Goku I did not like it at all, during my early teenage years, I used to be one of those people that were like "Waah Goku should sound like a Manly manly MAN! waaah" (that's honestly how those particular people sound, it borderline feels sexist and I don't throw that out often, I'm so embarrassed I was one of them) because I had no concept of how Japanese Voice acting actually worked or really Dragon Ball in it's true form

Since then, I've obviously learned more, and I've given it a second look, over the years, I learned about Masako and what a wonderful lady she is, and despite still considering Sean as my titular Goku, I grew to appreciate her as a person and let go of that bias a little

Now in my adulthood, after being exposed to Japanese media a lot more, learning the intricacies of the language, I genuinely cannot watch English media for most animes anymore and the same has come to apply for Dragon Ball, and I must say, Masako deserved her props from me a long time ago, because anything Sean does good, she does so much better, the screams the emotions in her tone, the dialogue, she really embodies the character of Goku, a character who is meant to sound as silly and whimsical as possible, so much more than he could ever hope to (at least in my eyes), though It also helps that Sean Schemmel as a person is a massive dickwad in general.

I implore you, give the Sub version of Goku a chance, even if you don't think the voice matches to at least hear some of her performance, you will never hear a better scream from Goku than when Masako says "Kaioken Sanbai Da!"

Just to be clear, I don't actually have anything against Sean personally, I'm mostly kidding around (except for him kind of being a bad guy) I also don't think his performance as Goku is entirely inferior, there are certain things he does do better than Masako Nozawa in some small ways

Did anyone else have an awakening by this? or am I wrong for thinking she's better now and giving respect to a woman of all things from the way some people talk about it, let me know

They announced it months ago and said it was coming out in the summer of 2026, but they haven't released a new trailer yet.

I have a head canon about Super Saiyan relating to zenkai, but it's only a head canon, and it makes much more sense than this S cells nonsense.

So we can't actually confirm that zenkai exists after Super Saiyan is reached (outside Cell, who isn't actually a Super Saiyan), which makes it entirely possible that the initial Super Saiyan transformation is triggered when the Saiyan has exhausted their biological mechanism for Zenkai.

Goten and Trunks weren't born with tails that we know of, so it's already hinted they don't possess certain biological traits of Saiyans. But if they weren't born with tails, what evidence do we have to refute the possibility that they also weren't born with zenkai ability? If that's the case, and Super Saiyan is tied to the zenkai mechanism, then them triggering Super Saiyan would be effortless and likely happen at a random moment when they were just little kids.

This would also explain why Gohan took longer to reach Super Saiyan, since he was born with biological traits of Saiyans like a tail and zenkai ability. And this would also make sense why Goku or Vegeta never reached it earlier despite the episodes of rage they experienced before they ever reached Super Saiyan.

Also if Universe 6 Saiyans don't have zenkai ability or don't have any real measurable mechanism for it, this same theory to explain why that Goten and Trunks reached it so early applies to them too.

Goku literally sacrificed himself to save earth,

And without him, earth would be in danger still,

Since the saiyans would still come,

Without Goku turning into ssj1, frieza would have taken over the entire galaxy,

And without him. Gero would have taken over earth, made cell with no Goku cells,

Since without him, they won't be stopped,

And without Goku, bulma would have died on day 1. Bc of the bear theif.

No time machine, no dragon rador,

Even the namekians would have faced extinction because of frieza, since Goku wouldn't be the one to stop him,

Demon king piccolo would takeover the planet destroy everything,

And even gohan goten would have never existed,

Same for trunks,

Babidi would have told buu to kill the supreme kai,

And that would cause beerus death,

Goku saved the universe many times before beerus ever woke up,

And without him, the multiverse would be erased, since nobody would remind zeno of tournament. Of power,

Since zeno was gonna. Erase them anyway. Goku gave them a. Chance to survive, be brought back,

Born of Prince with one of the highest power levels of your people's history, your people die off but you don't really care about it (he states it multiple times and technically tries to kill off last some of the last remaining sands left), eventually become allies with the strongest group in your universe and grow to godly levels because of it, get married to one of the richest people on Earth and share that wealth for the majority of your life. His life is pretty great

Also, I see a lot of people use this guy as the definition of hard work or something. He's not the textbook definition of hard work, at least not in the z. Before his character, Arc is completed in the Buu saga he's extremely reckless and many of the advantages he had was because of how he was born, who you was connected with, shortcuts, and his privilege. Vegeta was born a Prince with a high power level And as a child, he was comparable to his father who was one of the strongest sayians in history. In a warrior race where strength is very well respected, this is extremely privileged. Also, he lives in a society where the high class lived in futuristic castles that had all the best training equipment while the lower class lived in mud huts. With Bulma he still has these same privileges (gravity machine, And tons of food) Also, I wouldn't call Vegeta that hard-working when he's abusing his biological gifts for most of the series instead of training hard. He abuses the great! Ape form(he States multiple times after cutting it off that it was limiting because he overused it), he overused zenkai boost, and he trys to use The dragon balls and Majin power for shortcuts to power. Also for most of z He's really bad at training. Vegeta constantly pushes himself to the break with no rest. This Is dumb and wrong. The series shows us multiple times that while you should try to push your limits you need rest, breaks, And the ability to temper yourself. Pushing yourself too far only hurt yourself in the long run. Roshi has been saying it since early dragon Ball "Work hard, study well, and eat and sleep plenty." And Goku explains it while they're in the Time chamber during the cell Arc. This is why Goku constantly gaps him in terms of power in z despite Vegeta being biologically superior. If he wasn't born Vegeta, he couldn't even compare to Goku, Just look at somebody like Nappa or raditz. If I was born as Vegeta, I'd be stronger than cell at the age of 13

So basically;

They gave Goku ssj4,

In daima, no memory erasure,

And he still remembers it,

And even if a S2 comes, it will be forced, since it should happened at s1 only,

And that my bulma scene will be ruined aka become useless, since bro, how is ssj2 comparing to ssj4?.

How will he punch beerus, and that means Goku will get a chance on punching beerus too,

i first want to ask a few questions about filler.

-Where can i go to get a list of all filler in DBZ and DBS?

-Which fillers are worth watching, as I'm a major one piece fan and know some can be nice to watch?

-Which DBZ movies are worth watching and not?

-Is it better to watch the DBS movie versions of Res F and Battle of gods or just the series telling?

Next i just wanna ask some questions about forms that I'm confused on.

-Is SSJB Evo meant to be a SSJ2 version of blue or a SSJ Grade 2 version?

-Broly's (super) LSSJ, is that a type of SSJ2, SSJ3 or something else entirely and could he go the SSJ2, SSJ3, SSJ4, SSJG, SSJ, SSJBE or like UI, MUI and UE, or a MUE? or a LSSJ2 and onwards thing?

-When thinking about the hair colors and characters who have been shown to have different colors lie rose and LSSJ, how would you determine a color for transformations they didn't do if i wanted to do my own drawing and coloring?

-With Goku Black, is his rosé a SSGSSJ or just a SSG or SSJ and what color would his SSJ4 be if he could?

-What are all the SSJ forms we've seen from every Saiyan ever like all normal numbers the legendary the god versions etc.?

I personally think Dragon Ball Z Kakarot should’ve started from the beginning cuz that dlc with kid Goku vs Demon King Piccolo and then the following tournament could’ve been apart of the main game (along with Goku’s early adventures) instead of Z, as someone who has read the manga it was a wasted opportunity to market the content of Z as just Dragon Ball.