r/fourthwing

Okay, so I accidentally came up with the funniest and increasingly most terrifying possible future for the Fourth Wing universe.

It started with me imagining Violet and Xaden like 20 years after the books. They survive everything, get their happy ending, get married, have kids, etc.

Their oldest daughter eventually goes to Basgiath and becomes a rider.

Now, signets aren't just random superpowers. They tend to manifest around something the rider fundamentally needs. Mira wanted to protect people, so she developed wards. Brennan wants to fix things, so he's a mender. Xaden's entire childhood taught him that he needed secrets and control, so he got shadows and an ability related to reading intentions. Violet's second signet, dream-walking, also connects to something she desperately needed.

So imagine being Violet and Xaden's daughter.

Your entire childhood consists of hearing stories about your parents.

Your mother is VIOLET SORRENGAIL. She bonded TWO dragons and can call down enough lightning to turn a battlefield into God's personal bug zapper.

Your father is XADEN RIORSON. He controls shadows, can read people's intentions, and became one of the most dangerous riders alive.

These aren't just your parents. They're basically living legends.

And even if Violet and Xaden are wonderful parents who constantly tell their daughter, "You don't have to be like us. We will love you no matter what," that doesn't mean SHE doesn't feel the pressure.

She grows up thinking:

"My mother could control a battlefield just by walking onto it."

"My father could control a battlefield just by walking onto it."

"If people ever depend on me, I need to be able to do that too."

Then she manifests her signet.

Terrain wielding.

Not "earthbending." Not "I throw rocks."

She can literally CONTROL THE BATTLEFIELD.

Raise walls. Open fissures. Collapse terrain. Create cover. Change elevations. Break enemy formations. Potentially bring down fortifications by altering the ground underneath them.

Mom controls the sky.

Dad controls the shadows.

Daughter controls the fucking ground everyone is standing on.

Which is already hilarious because leadership was worried about what kind of absurd rider Violet and Xaden might produce.

Turns out: THEY WERE RIGHT.

But then I realized this creates a much funnier problem.

Because now the NEXT generation grows up hearing:

"Your great-grandmother wielded lightning."

"Your great-grandfather wielded shadows."

"Your grandmother could rearrange the geography."

So THEY feel pressure to live up to the family.

One manifests light wielding.

Next one gets precognition.

Next generation:

"What's this one's signet?"

"Well...they amplify other people's signets."

"Excuse me?"

"They can make other riders' signets stronger."

"So if they stand next to a fire wielder—"

"The fire wielder becomes artillery."

"Goddammit."

At this point Basgiath develops an unofficial rule:

WATCH OUT FOR SORRENGAIL-RIORSONS.

Then another one comes through.

Everyone is terrified waiting for the manifestation.

And the kid goes:

"I think I figured out my signet."

Command: "Oh no."

"I can copy other people's signets."

"...what?"

Someone produces fire.

They produce fire.

Someone controls water.

Now they control water.

Someone uses shadows.

"NO. STOP TESTING IT."

Basically their psychological need was:

"If somebody else can do something, I need to be able to do it too, or I'm not living up to my family."

And magic apparently went:

"Understandable. Here you go."

BUT THEN IT GETS WORSE.

Because now the next generation grows up hearing:

"Your ancestors controlled lightning, shadows, terrain, light, foresight, amplified other people's magic, and your mother could COPY SIGNETS."

So this poor bastard's psychological need becomes:

"There cannot be anything I am incapable of doing."

They manifest.

Nothing happens.

Basgiath celebrates.

FINALLY.

A NORMAL SORRENGAIL-RIORSON.

Then somebody realizes the kid doesn't actually have a conventional signet.

They can manipulate MAGIC ITSELF.

Everyone else gets raw magic from their dragon and their personality/needs basically force it through one particular shape.

Fire.

Lightning.

Shadows.

Healing.

Whatever.

This person can apparently grab the magic BEFORE it becomes a specific signet and decide what it's going to do.

Fire?

Sure.

Lightning?

Sure.

Shadows?

Sure.

Terrain?

Sure.

Mending?

Why not?

At that point they're not asking:

"What can my signet do?"

They're asking:

"What can MAGIC do?"

And that's when the joke becomes genuinely terrifying, because this family has basically spent six generations accidentally breeding people who are approaching godhood.

Not because there's necessarily some magical "powerful parents make genetically stronger babies" rule.

It's because THE FAMILY REPUTATION ITSELF KEEPS MAKING THE NEXT GENERATION WORSE.

Every generation grows up under more pressure than the previous one.

Every generation thinks:

"I have to live up to them."

And because signets manifest according to deep psychological needs, magic keeps responding:

"Okay."

Until eventually Basgiath's official policy should just be:

FOR THE LOVE OF DUNNE, STOP TELLING SORRENGAIL-RIORSON CHILDREN HOW POWERFUL THEIR ANCESTORS WERE.

Because every time someone tells one of these kids:

"You have a lot to live up to."

Magic apparently interprets it as a fucking challenge.

Imagine being some exhausted commandant 150 years after Violet:

"Commandant, another Sorrengail-Riorson crossed the parapet."

"...shit."

"They're actually very nice."

"THEY'RE ALWAYS NICE."

"They don't seem particularly powerful."

"THEY NEVER DO AT FIRST."

"They said they don't even care about living up to their family."

"That's what the last one said, and now she can SEE TOMORROW."

Three years later:

"Sir, they manifested."

"What does it do?"

"We don't have a name for it."

"..."

"Sir?"

"Evacuate Basgiath."

"But—"

"NOW."

At that point the family motto isn't even a motto anymore.

It's a warning:

Never give a Sorrengail-Riorson something to live up to. Magic has an alarming tendency to help them do it.

First of, he's a total wildcard. Every one of the core characters, we know their entryway into the main circle. Marked ones are involved by default, it's the cause their parents died for. Violet is involved as soon as Resson happens, not only bevause of Xaden. Plus, it's kind of her dad's war too. Her squad mates fight with and for her, and are generally decent people who understand the consequences of ignoring the venin, so that makes sense. Dain is also involved because of Resson and owes a debt to Violet.

Now what is Aaric? What does he know? Why does he care? Does he just hate his family, or hate monarchy, or hate the corruption? He is passionate. He may be more driven than all the rest, and almost more sure of himself and his cause than Xaden. Plus, his threshing day is like no other. He is HUNTING?

what?? I alsi think he's the brother but that's beside the point. Either that or I think he'll develop shadow abilities. He is also known to keep info to himself. Several examples of this, with big and small things. He didn't tell anyone he was a precog, and he didn't even tell the quest squad he could speak the languages. Which was weird tbh, why would he not?

Also in iron flame/onyx storm, he kind of just pops in and out of the story as needed. No other character with that muxh plot influence just spends majority of their time outside the plot.

Plus he's the last story. That's an interesting choice. He didn't have to be last he was same year as sloane. And then there's MOLVIC. why is he everywhere? What does he want? Why is he wandering around the forest in so many threshings. No other dragon is mentioned that much. Molvic is also hunting I think. But I don't understand his motivations. It is pretty much said that a dragon sees all your memory before choosing you, so if he was considering Alic, why would seeing him be a little bitch change his mind? Surely the bitchiness would've been apparent in the memories.

The bottom line is, aaric is hugely important and idk why. Help me I don't have booktok friends.

So...A couple of days ago I was doing the threshing day activity as most of us, and I got a red clubtail. Hence today, I wondered whether or not her lineage was the same as any dragon from the book. And I was happy to see it's the same as Liam's and Sloane's dragons.

Then I checked the rest out of curiosity and found that:

- Dain's and Sawyer's match.

- Brennan's and Imogen's match.

- Xaden's and Aaric's match.

- Bodhi's and Rhiannon's match.

- Garrick's and Ridoc's match.

- Sloane's and Liam's match.

The only one without a match is Mira. And Rebecca said (I believe I remember from one of her interviews) that a loved character will die next book. And Rebecca loves to use subtle hints and foreshadowing.

So either this could be a nice foreshadowing of her and Drake's relationship (since Drake is a gryphon flier, not a dragon's, so like... no dragon match)

Or very bad news.

Leave me your thoughts below! ty for reading my theory.

In Imogen’s chapter of Threshing Day, she tells Garrick that the only three marked children who were fostered alone were her, Sloane and Julianne.

This must be important somehow. The only other time she was mentioned was during FW, when Liam tells Violet that there are 107 of them, Julianne being the youngest. He also mentioned she was born with the mark, which raises questions. Did her pregnant mother hold the rune? Did the magic affect her differently?

Will she come into play in book four, when we see Violet ruling over Tyrrendor? I want to hear theories about her!

Don't read this if you haven't read books 1-3 and Threshing Day!

I haven't exactly figured out all points of the theory, but I think some of the dragons are wanting their riders to turn, or at least just know in advance that they will. And I think it has something to do with the hatching ground maybe... ? Which is why some eggs are missing at the end of Onyx Storm.

And hand in hand with this... What if "the brother" Xaden talks about in his POV, isn't the only one who has also turned? What if ALL the missing cadets mentioned in OS are now venin?

Because when I heard Garrick's POV in Threshing Day, I was certain he was the venin brother.

"It might surprise you to find that nothing is too difficult to me." - Garrick

"Quite the contrary, I'm counting on it." - Chradh

So is Chradh counting on something being too difficult for Garrick... ? Perhaps, Garrick not having enough power to save his friends, making him channel... ?

(Or maybe he just means he's counting on the fact that Garrick will stop at nothing for those he cares about, but that too could be foreshadowing, right?)

But then when I heard Bodhi's, I could see how he could be the venin brother too, because of quotes like, "... until your death or demise." said by Cuir, as well as when Bodhi vows he will "never be powerless again."

So what if they both end up venin, along with some of the others?

In Threshing Day, Xaden admits to Sgaeyl that he plans to burn Basgiath to the ground, and then he's surprised that she's okay with that because the Vale is there and that's their hatching ground...

So what if the dragons wanted them to turn or knew they would turn, and it helps the dragons to break free of having to help Navarrians because they could start a new hatching ground in Aretia? And that's why there are eggs missing at the end of OS!

So perhaps these dragons know their riders enough to know they won't completely turn/lose their souls because they're turning for the right reasons? I DON'T KNOW!

But something that works against my theory is Sgaeyl telling Xaden not to channel for her when she's tied up... I don't know how that would fit in 🤔

But as I said, I haven't worked it all out yet. And I could definitely be COMPLETELY wrong. I just wanted to share to see other people's take on this.

Can all the dragons be trusted?

Did more than one other person turn? (Garrick, Bodhi, the other missing riders, one of which could be Aaric... ?)

Discuss this with me, please! Talk me down from my crazy theories or back me up with them!

And can the next book please come out this winter?! 😭

I think our new friend Lt. Ellery Mynna is actually an easter egg about Violet's second signet.

Mynas are a group of birds in the starling family.

This is not incidental - we have an abundance of bird-related names pop up across the series. Like, 12 days of Christmas quantities of birds going on.

And of course, Marbh made sure birds were top of mind for us as we read Threshing Day:

>"Only birds belong in trees. [...] Are you a bird, Sorrengail? [...] Have I found a docile robin in the place of the sharp-minded hawk I sought? [...] Think of all the battles we will win with that bird-sized brain of yours. [...] Little birdie can fly."

So. Starlings:

• Have iridescent feathers
• Specifically do not occupy desert areas
• Process information very quickly - faster than humans
• When they probe for prey, it's called "zirkeln" - named for a compass (the kind with 2 legs)

Andarna is an irid. We know nothing about the desert barrens. Violet processes information extremely quickly. And Violet got that compass from Zihnal - a different type of compass, but still.

And. Starlings are known for their swarming behavior ("murmuration"). It was once believed to be caused by thought transference - telepathy, essentially (in fact, they sync up with the 7 nearest birds).

I think that the reason we've only seen 10% of Violet's signet from Andarna is because it isn't dreamwalking at all. It's thought transference. That's why the irids said it was so dangerous. And with it, she could command the sky - she could control the movements of all the dragons/riders to create precise, a precise, coordinated attack.... a kind of power that could be incredibly dangerous if she was not trustworthy, lost control, or showed poor judgement.

We have also seen repeatedly that Xaden's power is growing, and it is very important that Violet can find him in the dark:

> “I can wield from anything that casts a shadow, but no one knows the strongest threads are always my own. If you can sort through them, feel their difference, you’ll be able to track where I am in the darkness.”
“Is that really what you need me to learn?” [...]
“You have to learn the difference for both our sakes. [...] Only you.”
[...]
“Why only me?”
“You need to be able to find me.”[...]
“Why only me?” [...]
“Because you’re the only one capable of killing me.”

But the lesson that Violet has been learning is the importance of teamwork and collaboration. She can't be the only one, and she can't do everything alone. But if she can use thought transference, then she could help her friends navigate the dark together. Because Xaden in his villain era will definitely be dimming the lights.

One other tidbit: the word for starling in Scots Gaelic is druid - which could tell us something about how the magic of this story will be described by the end. More broadly, the root of "druid" is related to being a magician, a seer, and a knower of trees. Violet, with her tree climbing ways, definitely is a knower of trees.

Also, "Violet Sorrengail"? That is 100% a bird name. Especially if you think of sorrengail as a parallel to nightingale (sorin meaning sun; nightingales sing all through the darkness to protect their territory). Ah yes, I've just spotted a violet sorrengail.... a violet sun-singer. Get that in merlin stat.

Spoilers for Threshing Day and Onyx Storm. This is more of a prompt for discussion than an argument or theory.

It's pretty clear by now that the Empyrean is some aspect of dragon government. But what exactly do we know about it? This is about what we know about the Empyrean itself, not general dragon culture.

• Dragons are represented in Empyrean leadership by elders, of whom only one represents each den. We assume, and it's probably a fair assumption but I don't believe we have been told, that a den is a breed/color, meaning there is only one representative of each color for a total of 7.
• Empyrean ruling/representative members are called Elders. Codagh is the Elder of the black dragons, and so represents the entire breed on the council. What it means, however, to be the Elder is unclear. For example, we don't know if the Elder must be the oldest of the dragons of that breed, the most powerful (in terms of magic), the biggest, or even just the most willing.
• We only know the identities of two of the seven Elders: Codagh and Andarna.
• We do not know the power of the Empyrean as an organization with the ability to enforce any of its rulings. (In fact, I suspect it's actually pretty weak, since the Empyrean decided to allow any dragons who wanted to leave Basgiath in Iron Flame to leave-- this would be a huge loss to any military force, but I suspect they had no choice, but this is an aside.) We don't know if it purports to be the government of all dragon existence, or simply the head of the "military" or what. We simply don't know what it is at all, or how it interacts with any other sect or aspects of dragon living.

So what does any of this mean? What questions do we have? Here are some of mine.

• How did the Empyrean become what it is? How long has it existed, and why?
• Is it literally just something the dragons made up so that they could deal with humans more easily?
• How big is the anti-Empyrean contingent? What are they interested in? Are they organized, and if so what for?
• How much do different humans (cough Kaori cough) know about the Empyrean? What does it mean for humans to be loyal to their dragons vs. the Empyrean vs. dragon kind?
• When dragons say they are loyal to other dragons first, where is the Empyrean on their priority list?

Threshing Day gave me so many good, fun, interesting questions. Thank you so much Rebecca!

Okay now it's theory time. I have one!

Cradgh is the brown Elder. No further comments.

Here, my shameless plug. Do not read if you haven't read all three books and the novella!

I think Dain should be more than the class clown and Sloane should be more than a reminder of his mistakes. I think they should suffer forced proximity while mutually pining and getting scorched by the inevitable slow burn.

I also attempt world building—fear not, it is subpar! Thnxbye.

Theory: What if Andarna bonded Xaden at the end of Onyx Storm?
Okay, hear me out. What if Andarna bonded Xaden during Violet’s missing twelve hours, and Violet doesn’t remember it because she had Imogen erase her memories?
At the end of Xaden’s POV, he thinks “she promised to help.” The obvious interpretation is Violet—but what if Andarna also promised to help him?
There are a few things making me suspicious:
Leothan specifically says Andarna is “fond” of Xaden. That’s an interesting detail considering we haven’t seen much of their relationship directly.
Near the ending, Andarna says “I won’t let them burn you.” We assume she’s speaking to Violet, but Violet also notices movement in the shadows to her right around this scene. What if Xaden is there and Andarna is actually speaking to him? “Burn” would be particularly meaningful now that Xaden is venin.
Throughout Onyx Storm, Andarna repeatedly talks about “every possible path.” What if she’s been looking for a path that saves Xaden?
Violet already proves that normal bonding rules aren’t absolute: one rider can bond two dragons. What if irids can do the reverse—one dragon can bond two riders?
Andarna has known Xaden since Fourth Wing. She’s watched him protect Violet, protect Andarna’s secrets, fight at Resson, and eventually sacrifice himself at Basgiath. So if she chooses him, it wouldn’t simply be because Violet asked. Andarna has had three books to decide for herself that Xaden is worth saving.
Most importantly, the missing twelve hours are the perfect place to hide a second bond from the reader. We already know major things happened during that period: Violet and Xaden married, Violet arranged to lose her memories, Xaden left, Garrick disappeared, etc. What else don’t we remember?
What if that’s why some of the mental communication at the end seems ambiguous? If Andarna is now bonded to both Violet and Xaden, the three of them may have a new mental connection.
It could also eventually be part of the venin cure. Venin take power directly from the source, while riders receive power through their dragons. Maybe an irid bond gives Xaden another connection to magic—or helps sever/stabilize his connection to the source.
So maybe “I won’t let them burn you” wasn’t Andarna protecting Violet.
Maybe it was Andarna making her first promise to her new rider.
And if Book 4 reveals that Andarna chose Xaden not because Violet asked her to, but because she independently decided he was worth saving. Thoughts?