r/lotr

Of course, the movie makes him a one-note character that does not reflect his complexity or the challenge he faced. But I want to note one particular thing about him that is to his credit, but I don't see observed.

Denethor uses the palantir to struggle in thought with Sauron, and of course that largely contributes to his downfall. But we should remember that he uses the palantir at least twice after being aware that Frodo has the ring and is in Mordor and manages not to reveal that fact. Even in his final time using the palantir, when he emerges thinking all is lost and goes to end his own life and that of Faramir - still he did not reveal the ring's location.

Of course, there's no reason to think Sauron specifically tried to get any such information from him, but even so it is a mark of Denethor's strength of character that he managed to keep that secret.

(I already shared this story in the Viggo sub months ago, so if it's familiar to some of you, that's the reason haha. It happened about 10 years ago and at that time I was not in my LOTR-fangirl phase which was probably fortunate because I might have harassed him otherwise, haha.)

So I am originally from Belgium but about 10 years ago, I was travelling from Madrid to Boston. While I was waiting in line to get boarded I heard someone talking in English on the phone and the voice was familiar so I turned to look and first I didn't recognise him, even though I had watched the LOTR movies many times, but he looked quite different in real life, you know, short grey hair and no facial hair, but I had also watched Eastern Promises so I knew him without facial hair too, haha. So after a few moments I realised, hey this looks like Viggo Mortensen!! At first I didn't want to believe it, and I didn't know that he was living in Madrid, so I was like, why would he be in Madrid, haha.

Then I noticed his lip scar which is quite visible in real life and I remembered he had a lip scar, so I'm thinking, wow this really must be him. He has the Aragorn voice, he looks like Viggo, he has the lip scar, it surely must be him, haha. Then I noticed he had an American passport in his hand, so that also checked out. He was standing in line like two metres away from me. He was wearing a baseball cap and he was looking downwards most of the time, I guess he didn't want to be recognised.

I didn't go up to him because I'm very shy and I didn't want to disturb him, but I couldn't not watch him, haha. I had loved him in LOTR. I also had a bit of a crush on him. Then I heard another person around me whispering "Viggo Mortensen", but I don't know what they said exactly because they were Spanish. They didn't go up to him either.

Anyway Viggo was travelling alone and in standard economy class, absolutely no fuss or special treatment. I think the majority of people had no idea who he was. 

We got on the plane and of course I was watching him and hoping he would be seated near me, haha. We ended up quite near, me in an aisle seat and him in a window seat two rows behind me, I could totally see him if I turned backwards. Imagine how hard it was not to turn backwards constantly to stare at him, haha. 

It was a 8-9 hour flight, so I did get to look at him a few times, like when I was going to the toilet etc. I saw him read a book, use his laptop and at one point he was asleep.

After we landed I considered going up to him for a photo but he didn't seem to be in good mood somehow, he seemed tense and tired. Nobody went up to him so it's not that he was rude or anything, I just got the vibes he doesn't want to be disturbed. He was asleep shortly before landing so maybe he was grumpy after waking up, haha. But anyway I am not someone who collects autographs or wants pictures at any price, I was thrilled enough that I got to share a flight with him, even though we had no interaction. And I am REALLY shy haha. I probably would have gone up to him if others had done so, but I didn't want to be the first one and didn't want to draw attention to him (and myself).

That's my Viggo story. I thought some of you might find it interesting!

I've been thinking about Eru Ilúvatar lately, and I think there's a pretty serious problem with the way we're supposed to understand him as a perfectly good being.

The thing that really started bothering me is Melkor.

The Ainur come from Eru's Thought. Tolkien says that each Ainu comprehended "that part of the mind of Ilúvatar from which he came." So Melkor isn't some evil force that appeared independently and then invaded Eru's creation. He is something Eru created, and his nature ultimately comes from Eru.

And Eru knew what Melkor was going to do.

That's where it gets difficult for me.

Melkor doesn't just rebel and then get dealt with. He goes on to destroy the Lamps, destroy the Trees, murder Finwë, steal the Silmarils, corrupt Arda and spend thousands of years causing an absolutely enormous amount of suffering.

Eru knows all of this is going to happen.

And he lets it happen.

The obvious response is that Melkor has free will. Sure. I'm not arguing that Melkor didn't choose his actions. But that doesn't really address Eru's part in all of this. Eru created Melkor knowing exactly what he would become. He knew what Melkor would do with the power he gave him.

And Eru isn't incapable of intervening. We know that because when Númenor attacks Aman, Eru intervenes directly. He destroys Númenor and changes the shape of the world.

So apparently Eru can intervene when he wants to.

Which makes Morgoth's entire career rather difficult to explain. Eru watches him destroy and corrupt things for thousands of years, but doesn't stop him.

Then there's Eru's response to Melkor's discord in the Music:

"no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me"

That's a pretty extraordinary thing to say in this context. Eru isn't presenting Melkor's rebellion as some unexpected disaster that got out of hand. Even Melkor's discord ultimately has its source in Eru and gets incorporated into the Music.

And this is where the "it's all part of the plan" explanation starts bothering me.

Okay, but why this plan?

Eru is supposed to be omnipotent. He isn't some king trying to make the best of a bad situation after something goes wrong. He created the situation in the first place.

If he knew what Melkor was going to do, then the suffering caused by Melkor wasn't an unfortunate surprise. It was something Eru knowingly chose to allow when he created Melkor and set the Music in motion.

The books contain many surprises for a fan of the movies, and one of my favorites had to be the chapters from Merry & Pippin’s perspectives in TT and ROTK. Far from comic relief, they feel so human and relatable as they struggle with their own limitations and being unable to help their friends.

Call it a theory/headcanon, but among all the evil Morgoth weaved into the world, I think Balrogs are his best work to the point that even Eru Illuvatar is having none of it.

I know there is debate on whether or not a definitive number of Balrogs exists, but I like to believe there are seven in total. Whenever someone mamaged to kill a Balrog it usually also meant their own death shortly after. I'm thinking Ecthelion, Glorfindel, Gandalf. It's curious that Eru Illuvatar intervened in two of these cases to bring the dead heros back to life.

I like to think that Morgoth actually managed to corrupt Balrogs so far beyond what should be possible and that there very being is cursed, dooming those that slay them. Eru himself is doing some of his rare interventions in the world to right this wrong.

For the criticism that The Hobbit receives, I think that if you set aside the source material deviations, the portrayal of Thorin's character arc throughout the film is brilliant.

In Bag End his view of Bilbo is made up of a lack of faith in a Hobbit, and frequently dismisses his worth.

The real turning point in their relationship occurs during the "Into the frying pan segment" when Bilbo saves Thorin, and his rescue in the Elvenking's dungeons, highlight a turn in his favor.

When Smaug dies and the gold sickness takes effect on Thorin, in his paranoia he assumes that the dwarfs are more likely to steal the Arkenstone from him than Bilbo, which ironically shows that Bilbo is the only one he trusts.

Then the sudden intense betrayal and hatred he feels against Bilbo when it is revealed that the Arkenstone was given to the Men and Elves by Bilbo completely destroys their relationship.

Then it culminates into a bittersweet ending where Thorin dies in Bilbo's arms calling him a true friend.

I dont know about anyone else but I think this is really good. What are your thoughts?

He fully punished Pippin for the stone down the well incident, but when Gimli has a little sing song in a ‘deep voice, while the echoes ran away into the roof’ - no repercussions.
Rude.

Hi everyone, I'm getting married in a few weeks and we are finalizing our music choices. We have a string quartet for the ceremony, which we are super excited about. We've decided the recessional will be Concerning Hobbits but are still undecided about the processional. My fiance won't walk in as he just wants to appear under the wedding arch from the side (ceremony is in a garden). The groomsmen and bridesmaids will process one by one (9 total with the last bridesmaid walking with her kids who will toss flowers). I was thinking about using Aníron for this since it's so romantic, but a non-LotR friend told me it might sound too sad. I'm also considering Into the West, but my mom told me it was too somber! I know it doesn't really matter since it's *our* wedding but I don't want guests to think we picked something funereal :P I'm the bride, walking in last with my parents to In Dreams from Breaking of the Fellowship (aka the Fellowship theme).

From my fellow fans, do you think Into the West or Aníron is a better processional song? I would guarantee no one besides us will recognize either, except maybe my brother (he is also a groomsman).

Yes, I am a chronic overthinker, why do you ask?

Thank you!