r/patentlaw

So I'm a former ukipo examiner with 8 years of experience, and a patent consultant with 3 years of experience.

I started looking for a trainee patent attorney job in the uk, but a recruiter told me I face 2 major hurdles. The first is volume of applicants, meaning it's hard for my applications to get noticed out of literally hundreds.

The second is that even though I have a PhD my undergraduate degree was only a 2:2. So I get filtered out as not having a 2:1 or a 1st.

I've been told in Sweden I won't face either of those problems. Is that true?

I recently passed the patent bar exam and was promoted from technical specialist to Patent agent at my law firm. While I was a tech spec, I was working part time at 32 hours per week at $46 per hour with no billable requirements. Now my new salary will be $92,000 annually for full time (37.5 hours per week according to them) and my billable requirements would be 1800 or 150 per month which is almost double what I’m billing right now .

While studying for the exam, I was told multiple times that my salary would significantly increase after passing and during a performance review, I was even told my new salary range would be $100,000-$150,000. None of this was in writing so I was disappointed when I was told my new salary but wasn’t sure if I could say anything.

I have less than 2 years of experience and have barely drafted patent applications so I asked if that’s the reason why my new salary was lower than expected but I was told no that it wasn’t.

My hourly salary of $46/hour at 37.5 hours per week would put me at $89,700 annually which is not a significant difference from the new $92,000 plus I would absolutely be working more than 37.5 hours per week to meet the billable requirements.

The current average salary for a patent agent with no experience in my location is about $115,000 according to Glassdoor.

Now I’m just wondering if the new salary and billable requirements are reasonable for new patent agent with less than 2 years of experience.

I just graduated from college and want to take 1-2 years before going to law school. I have a B.S. in chemistry and internship experience in patent prosecution. It feels like firms think I'm overqualified for assistant/paralegal roles yet underqualified for tech spec roles (but I could be wrong).

• Every post wants 1+ years of experience, a PhD, or an EE background. What jobs want entry-level labor?
• Should I disclose my law school aspirations? Or does that create retention concerns?
• Is it better to apply to jobs online or try to network my way into one?
• Is IP a lost cause? Should I try to work in tech instead, or be a chemist (I hate the lab, but like desk work)?
• Should I go all in on passing the patent bar quickly and apply after I get my reg number?
• What is the market like-- will this search take several months?

I don't want to waste my time and money getting a master's because my end goal is patent litigation.

I am a first year Law & Science student at the University of Hong Kong. In the long term, I plan to complete a MSEE/MSCS in Canada and then pursue Patent Law there.

While I personally prefer Litigation, I'm a bit concerned about feasibility for both Prosecution and Litigation:

• For Patent Prosecution, there could be export controls, and I am not Canadian.
• For Patent Litigation, I do not possess a Canadian law degree. I'm worried my foreign legal education could be frowned upon even if I ultimately manage to qualify as an attorney in a Canadian province.

I've thought of a few things I can do, but I'm not sure whether they will really be helpful:

• A semester/year on exchange in a decent Canadian law school (Osgoode/Western/McGill)
• Pursuing an LLM in Canada (perhaps in IP law) instead of an MSEE/MSCS
• Learning French?

I also have a few questions about patent law in Canada:

• Where are most patent law-related jobs concentrated in?
• I'm fluent in Chinese -- could that be helpful?
• In the long term, will relocating to the US be realistic?

Thank you very much in advance.

I have made many different physical products but I’m not too good at marketing so I’d like to weight my options here. Does anyone know who I would go to or just how to sell a patent in the first place? A rough outline of this process or any links to external resources or businesses would be greatly appreciated.

Hi :) I will be applying to law school this fall and am currently interested in pursuing IP law. My undergraduate degree is in journalism, and I have worked a lot with the Athletics department on my campus with branding, content production, etc., over the last three years. Since deciding on a career in the legal field, I have naturally drifted towards IP law, and specifically, trademark and copyright law, due to my interest in protecting creative media and content creation.

I know that a STEM background is necessary to take the patent bar and for several IP law careers, so I was curious if a career in IP law is worth pursuing (considering job availability and income) without the ability to do patents?

Thank you!

And if you did, how did you accomplish this?

I am about to enter my third year of a B.S. in Biology program, and I am interested in becoming a patent attorney. I know that a biology undergraduate degree is not always considered the strongest technical background for patent law, so I am trying to make the best decisions now while I still have time to adjust my academic and career path.

A few questions I am hoping to get advice on:

1. What concentration or coursework would be most helpful for patent law with a biology degree? Since biology alone may not be the most competitive background, I want to know if there are specific concentrations, minors, electives, or technical areas that would make me a stronger candidate.
2. Should I try to become a patent agent before becoming a patent attorney? My final semester of college should be relatively light, and I was considering using that time to study for the patent bar exam. Would becoming a patent agent before law school be a smart move?
3. Would an M.S. in Computer Science help? I am also considering pursuing a master’s degree in computer science to strengthen my technical background and improve my opportunities in patent law. Would this be worth it for someone coming from a biology background?
4. When should I pursue the M.S. in Computer Science? Would it make more sense to complete the M.S. before working as a patent agent, while working as a patent agent, or after gaining some experience?
5. Should I look for a patent agent job before or after the computer science degree? I am trying to figure out whether firms would be interested in hiring me as a patent agent with just a B.S. in Biology, or whether I would be more competitive after completing a computer science degree.
6. Can firms sponsor or partially sponsor law school? If I work as a patent agent before law school, is it realistic to expect that a firm might sponsor or partially pay for my law school degree? How common is this, and what type of firm would be most likely to offer that?
7. What internships, jobs, or work experience should I be pursuing right now? As an undergraduate biology student interested in patent law, what kinds of internships, research positions, legal assistant roles, technology transfer office positions, biotech/pharma jobs, or other experiences would help me build a strong path toward becoming a patent agent or patent attorney?

My long-term goal is to become a patent attorney, but I want to make smart decisions before committing to law school. I would appreciate advice from patent attorneys, patent agents, law students, or anyone who has taken a similar path.

I have developed an algorithm that I want to put into my open source project. However there is a commercial company in Australia that has the same type of algorithm (I don't know the details, but produces similar results) and they state "Patent Pending". I am in the US. Their AU provisional patent lapsed and I cannot find anything at the USPTO. I have searched for general terms, company name, inventor name, etc. However this has made me quite nervous of publishing my code. I am thinking of keeping that part of my application closed source and publishing a document describing my algorithm on my website. That way if they suddenly produce something I can pull the document. If I make the code freely available I lose control of copies, etc. Any thoughts on this? Also I emailed the company and they refused to give me a patent number. Thanks.

Be honest with me I have started and stopped a thousand times, this time I really want to commit. Am I in over my head, is this really unlikely, or is there any reccomendations for someone in my position.

I have a B.S. in Computer Science from a non ABET accreditted school I got this back in 2020. I have struggled to get into the industry (which I understand may be the delimiter, right there) I never got a job in tech and I am not the best coder. I rceently helped a friend launch a site using Claude Code but I myself struggle to make 50k USD a year in the U.S.
My GPA from undergrad is 2.5(using CAS) but I did take a semester of electrical engineering and had a 3.8 semester, I know that they don't see this but I am saying this to say I am a pretty good student, and I have matured.

I think my chances would be to become either a patent bar instructor, or take the patent bar exam, get hired as some sort of associate, then go to a top-75 law school by being a super splitter (low g.p.a., high lsat).

I was treasurer and founder of my HS's debate team, and I thouroughly lived policy debate, reading, and arguing. I feel like I sound naive so I ask others, with your infinite frames of reference, how can I start on this path? Is this a ridiculous venture?

Any advice/reccomendations on how I can work with what I have to get a career going?

TLDR; I have a low gpa and BS in CS, I am getting mixed views on if taking the Patent Bar would be useful in my position. Wondering what other paths may be available to me, or what you would do to get on board.

Hi all,

Has anyone had experience with responding to an ITCD received for a PCT, where the only defects are the sizes of chemical structures and making the font larger?

In a situation like this, does a marked-up substitute spec need to be submitted with the response, or will just a response and a PCT with replacement sheets suffice?

Asking because it takes forever to make the marked-up copy when there are a ton of chemical structures involved. Thanks!!

From decisions I'm reading, it seems that their only purpose is to rescue the Examiner from the Examiner's own bad rejections by finding other new grounds to reject the claims.

I am a junior patent agent (<3 yr exp) recently lateraled to a lower-tier am100 firm. I was reviewing a client invoice and saw everyone's billing rates and was honestly a little shooketh to find out that the senior paralegal in my practice group is billing higher than me. My rates are ~$400/hr and there are 2 senior paralegals (one has 8-10 yr exp; one has >10 yr) are $435/hr and $450/hr each.

I thought it was wild because this was not the case at my last firm. The most senior paralegals bill under $300/hr at my last firm. Most of them bill at ~$200/hr. That said, I was at a mid-sized boutique not ranked am100. My billing rate also actually decreased after moving to a bottom-tier biglaw????

I guess I am concerned because I feel like my salary is higher than the senior paralegals but my billing rate is lower. My base is ~$170k/yr and it's just difficult to imagine any paralegal making more than that. In this case, my billing rates are lower and it'd be easier to make a case against me because of the margin/net benefits (how much billed to client vs. how much I make). The paralegals, on the other hand, are paid a smaller salary but are billed so high. So their profit margin will look better than mine.

Anyway, also just generally baffled and don't understand why firms do this?????? Does this make sense to clients??? A patent practitioner billing lower than paralegals?????

EDITED: My salary is higher but my billing rate is lower. I don't think I need to be paid more but I don't understand why firms pay me more but bill me lower. Otherwise for paralegals. Genuine practice question.

To summarize, I’m interested in becoming a patent agent. However, I have my bachelors degree in biomedical sciences, and a certification in biotechnology. My work experience is in business operations currently, but my biotech certificate really prepared me in the lab.

I am interested in this field for a few reasons, mainly lifestyle, reasons, such as salary, and remote availability. I enjoy explaining science to people and clarifying vague topics. I am a person who loves structure, but also doing something a little different each day.

However, I’m finding it difficult to find a real entry without having a PhD. Is it possible to get hired with only a bachelors degree?

Also, for those that are patent agents, can you explain to me if you’re satisfied with this choice or if you had wished you had done something else. What are pros and cons?

I worked as a Technology Specialist at a law firm for a little over a year after finishing my PhD. unfortunately they didn’t provide much formal training or mentorship. I ended up teaching myself a lot of the role, which I’m grateful for, but ultimately it wasn’t a good fit.

I’m currently studying for the patent bar and plan to take it soon. In the meantime, I’ve been trying to find another Technology Specialist position because I’d really like to get back into the field before passing the patent bar if possible.

The problem is that I’m having a terrible time with the job search. I’ve applied through what feels like every job board and firm website I can find, also I did try a working with a recruiter but eventually he went silent. There also don’t seem to be many Technology Specialist openings in life sciences/biotech compared to what I expected.
So my question are:
● Should I just focus on passing the patent bar and resume my search afterward?
● Is it worth reaching out directly to patent attorneys, patent agents, or recruiters on LinkedIn?
● Are there other job search strategies I’m missing for finding Technology Specialist positions?

I’d really appreciate any advice or insight. Thanks!

I'm looking for case law where the Federal Circuit/SCOTUS overturned overly rigid applications of tests for various issues relating to obviousness in view of KSR which required more flexibility in the analysis. For example, overly rigid application of the Wands factors, etc.

I asked the Examiner to rejoin claims directed to product-by-process when the process claims were allowed. The product claim specifically incorporates the allowed independent claim for the process. The Examiner said that it could not be done because MPEP 821.04 only talks about allowing process claims when the product claim is allowed. However, nothing in 821.04 actually says you can't allow the product claim that incorporates the allowed process claim.

I think the Examiner is just letting a badly written MPEP section interfere with rejoining an allowable claim since the MPEP section doesn't specifically say you can't rejoin a product claim that incorporates the allowed process claim. Thoughts?

Update:

The claim goes "A ____ product produced by the method of Claim 1, wherein said product _______. Claim 1 was allowed. Everything in the independent product claim was claimed in the examined dependent claims.

I recently came across a Notice of Imported Citations being issued by the USPTO in a U.S. non-provisional application.

As I understand it, this notice informs the applicant that prior art references from a related (typically parent) application have been automatically imported into the record of the current application as part of the USPTO's Access to Relevant Prior Art (RPA) Initiative.

From what I have been able to gather, this initiative began in late 2018 as a pilot program covering a limited number of art units. It now appears that the USPTO may have expanded the initiative to additional art units.

Has anyone else been seeing these notices issued in U.S. non-provisional applications recently?

Also, does anyone have any insights on the following?

• Has the USPTO formally expanded the RPA Initiative to a broader range of art units?
• Do you foresee any impact on current IDS practices or internal procedures?
• I am also wondering whether any disclaimer or communication to the USPTO would be appropriate in situations where a client specifically instructs that references from the parent application should not be cited in the child application, or whether the automatic import under the RPA Initiative makes that unnecessary.
• Under the new IDS size fee rules effective January 19, 2025, do references imported by the USPTO under the RPA Initiative count toward the cumulative IDS reference thresholds (50/100/200), or are only applicant-submitted IDS references counted? If imported references are excluded, this could significantly reduce the need to re-file parent IDSs in continuation applications.

I would appreciate hearing your thoughts or experiences.

Hi! Sorry in advance for the dumb question. I’m embarrassed to admit that I don’t know what paralegals do in the patent prosecution process despite having been drafting patent applications and office action responses for a solid couple years. Thanks in advance 💫