I know the offenses are completely different but no one can argue that City hasn’t cheated by magnitudes more than Tonda did.
Do you think City’s punishment may have been less had they not come down so hard on us?
Read through the comment thread.
I see this stuff all the time. In my head I instantly get defensive and think that these patients have no idea how hard the job is and how we can’t refer every patient on or the system would collapse. I think about how there are thousands of people that are appropriate reassured but we only see the comments from those with negative stories.
But then I realise my bias as a doctor.
I was wondering what goes through other people’s heads when they encounter this stuff online.
The uk doctors subreddit did not like my question 😂
Particularly interested in people that had parents that went through messy divorces around the 8-14 year old age. I have a lot of friends who had this happen to them and it’s left deeper scars on them than people would assume.
I feel like there should be more support for kids that go through things like that.
Edit: lots of response that raise a good point - a better title/question is:
How much did your parents’ relationship with one another mess you up?
Example post: https://www.reddit.com/r/SaintsFC/s/MdWEYHg7AX.
Scroll to bottom for juice.
Boro fans are so mad at us despite us fans having nothing to do with the rule breach 😂 So many boro fans taking the bait and lashing out on our sub, it’s genuinely cracking me up.
Just read a thought-provoking case involving a suicidal adult who had taken a substantial overdose with suicidal intent and was refused treatment. I think it is worth discussing as we see these kinds of jobs so often where management.... vaires.
Case:
Robert Day was 60 years of age at the time of his death. He was under the care of community mental health services in relation to his diagnosis of severe depression.
On the afternoon of 14 January 2025, Robert Day disclosed to his mental health nurse during a telephone conversation that he had taken a significant overdose of his prescription medication. An ambulance was called and a joint response unit (police and ambulance service) attended Robert’s room at the Travelodge in Sittingbourne (his home address at that time). Robert refused all forms of treatment, including being taken to hospital, despite being advised of the likely fatal consequences of not receiving treatment. The paramedic undertook a mental capacity assessment and concluded that Robert did have the mental capacity to refuse treatment. Robert was given safety-netting advice.
Sadly, Robert was found deceased in his room on the morning of 15 January 2025. He died as a result of the overdose of prescription medication.
Coroner's response (paraphrased):
The Head of Mental Health at SECAmb regarding the difficulties faced by emergency services generally in situations such as this. It must be accepted that frontline paramedics and police officers are not specialists in the provision of mental health care, despite in increasing number being attened.
It was clear that the joint response crew (one paramedic and one police officer) did their very best to assist in a particularly difficult set of circumstances. A capacity assessment was undertaken and the responders reasonably believed that Robert did have capacity to make the decision to refuse treatment even in the knowledge that, without it, his death within the coming hours was highly likely.
I heard that the police could not have deployed section 136 of the Mental Health Act 1983 to take Robert to a place of safety because, at that time, the hotel room was his home. In any event, section 136 would not allow for treatment. Further, in the circumstances of Robert’s case, the process of applying for a warrant under section 135 of the Mental Health Act 1983 was also likely inappropriate given the critical nature and timing of Robert’s situation.
While not hearing specific and detailed evidence on provisions of the Mental Health Act, the witness was clear that these matters would likely be beyond the scope of understanding of most frontline emergency workers.
The fundamental issue was considered to be ‘what can the frontline crew actually do’ in such complex situations. Robert’s situation is unlikely to have been novel but that there is an absence of national guidance to frontline emergency services in dealing with the complexities of cases such as Robert’s.
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I would be interested to hear your opinions on this case, how the case could have been managed, and what legislation could have been leveraged.
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My professional opinion: this sounds like a pretty open-and-shut capacity ruling:
Decision: to refuse transport to hospital for life sustaining emergancy medical treatment.
Thus, perform a capacity assessment:
Thus, as they are unable to weigh up the information, they are lacking the capacity to refuse transport to the hospital, so a best interest decision must be made. The best interest decision would be transport to the hospital, using force as required.
I am surprised the capacity assessment was not highlighted in the coroner's report as questionable (though I am sure the attending paramedic genuinely believed he had the capacity to make the decision required. Understanding of the MCA is generally poor).
The disregard of the MHA was likely appropriate given that the pressing complaint is medical in nature. However, there are mechanisms available to compel medical treatment under the MHA which are secondary to a mental health cause.
I am also surprised that Article 2 'right to life' was not mentioned.
It will be interesting to see how this develops.
Anyway - looking forward to the discussion and to hearing your opinions!
N.B. This post and following discussion are no slight against the crew who attended; it sounds like a very challenging job that was managed by multiple agencies to the best of their ability.