u/AlexFromOgish
Wisdom of sending in packet with third-party docs as placeholders, along with proof of ordering "real" docs from "original source authority" before receiving the latter
Since IRCC updated CIT0014 Scenario 3 in June 2026, what is the current experience of people who hope for AOR on the basis of documents sourced from Ancestry/FamilySearch/etc, along with proof they have ordered the same thing from an "original source authority", with promise to update the submission when the "official" documents are received?
Are these folks still surviving AOR and getting a chance to supplement with the "real" documents once they are received? Or are such submissions just being rejected out-of-hand?
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My example case....
My Gen 0 was born in Quebec in the mid 1800s' I have the Drouin copy of the baptism record and I polished up my packet one weekend, intending to mail it on Monday. But wouldn't you know it? That was the same weekend IRCC sent out the many "recall" emails, and decided third party documentation won't cut it.
So I ordered the same things from BanQ but of course I won't hear from them for months.
If I send the packet now, with the Drouin copies, and some screaming red lights flashing proof that I ordered from BanQ and will upload those on reciept......... do you think I'll either (A) pass AOR or (B) just have the whole thing sent back?
The Gargantuan Lie That is Collapsing The World’s Climate
currentaffairs.orgMurderous heat, an endangered food supply and no net zero: this is the life the radical right wants you to have | George Monbiot
theguardian.com19th century baptism free from Quebec "Banq numérique"?
I'm trying to locate and order a baptism and also a marriage record from 1800s in Quebec. The BanQ page (url https://www.banq.qc.ca/notre-institution/banq/ordering-copies/ )
says
"Interested in getting copies of materials held at the National Library or the National Archives? You can get them free of charge by downloading them using BAnQ numérique*, the institution’s digital platform...."
Do we know if copies obtained this way will satisfy Canadia IRCC when reviewing our CIT0001 evidence?
Obviously one advantage is that they are FREE but will they be accepted? Are there any downsides to relying on such documents?
Eamon Ryan: Were this summer’s heatwaves caused by El Nino or something much more terrifying?
irishtimes.comQuebec - old church records sourced from CHURCH
So old (19th century and earlier) church baptism/marriage records from Ancestry/Drouin etc are OUT and "original source authority" records are IN...... the original source authority is the church.
So what is current thinking, is a record obtained from the church going to be satisfactory or will that same thing only be accepted if it is from BAnQ instead?
Europe’s Longest Bridge Spans Troubled Waters - Engineering.com
This is the "Kerch Bridge" aka the Crimean Bridge aka Putin's Bridge, in 2018 shortly after it opened. The linked article is from 2018, and describes in lay terms some of the engineering challenges and how the Russians dealt with them.
There are active faults and mud volcanoes here, and sure enough on June 22, four quakes struck nearby, the largest a 4.5
This has led to some speculation that the bridge is taking irreparable cumulative damage, even from these little quakes. Example article from today, https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/earthquakes-are-destroying-crimean-bridge-1782310318.html
Anyone care to speculate about potential damage to the bridge? Actually there are two... an auto/truck bridge and a parallel rail bridge.
Small tremors in Crimea could be a precursor to a major earthquake — seismologist
korabelov.infoMultiple earthquakes hit near Crimea within hours
newsukraine.rbc.uaPossible Triage priorities for IRCC
Probably just some wishful thinking here.....
Personally, I'm of the opinion IRCC has decided standards used in the past were inadequate, and the "surrender letter" was rushed out the door as soon as they made up their minds about that, and for the purpose of not letting the damage to people's lives get any worse by letting the clock run before they got the word out.
Yes, many who made major life decisions have been harmed and by rushing the boilerplate letter out IRCC put the brakes on this, so the damage doesn't get any worse. I do expect them to do the painstaking work of reviewing all the files, and sending out individualized notices about perceived gaps in the each applicant's documentation. That will be long and slow.
So if I were in charge at IRCC, I might set up the triage priorities something like this
- Any URGENT requests where there is a demonstrated immediate risk of death or injury (including ICE detention)
- Any applicant who, on the basis of a recalled certificate, has already made major life choices (e.g., relocation, marriage/divorce, university enrollment, etc), although I'm not sure how they could collect data to make that determination
- Applicants with recalled certificates who previously or now qualify for URGENT processing
- All pending applicants with a qualified reason for URGENT processing.
- All remaining applicants with recalled certificates
- The remaining queue in chronological order of reception date.
There might be a reason to tweak this I didn't think of, and I have no idea how they are going to proceed. In case you're wondering, I would be the hind end of group 6 if they do something like this
Russia seizes $7.6B in billionaire's assets in major nationalization
msn.comUkraine Destroys 415 Russian Trucks, Tankers and Logistics Vehicles in June: Ten a Day!
youtube.comThe troubling vagueness of the boilerplate surrender letter
When dealing with the IRCC, we're all engaged in a process of administrative law.
It bothers me that the surrender letter vaguely says somethings wrong, a citizenship certificate is being revoked unless we fix the mystery-unknown-unidentified wrong thing. It's fine and dandy that they provide a grace period for curative action, but apparently they are not telling anyone what document(s) require curing.
It's like a terrible parent threatening a child "If you don't do something by the time I count to ten, I'm taking you to the woodshed!!" Of course the kid will be suddenly alarmed, and I feel for everyone going through the same vague threat from IRCC.
If IRCC intends to do a followup communication to each applicant with the specifics, they should make noise letting us know that is the plan.
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PS I originally erred by including this in a reply in the megathread. A mod asked me to move it over here.
My application, ready to be mailed on Monday (yay) is also dependent on a 19th century Quebec baptism, so I'm very interested in your report thanks for sharing. When IRCC staff makes an adverse decision, we can appeal to the board, and from the board we can appeal to the courts. At the first two levels, IRCC in theory uses a nonbinding document called Weighing the Evidence. https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/legal-policy/legal-concepts/Pages/EvidPreu.aspx Of special note, see intro to section 4 which seems to say the default standard of proof is the "balance of probabilities (in other words, are more likely than not to be true)". See also the first paragraph of Section 4.3, which in my mine anyway says IRCC should accept pre 1900ish Quebecois parish records from Drouin are authentic unless there's a reasonable basis to believe they're not. And that leaves the question whether such records matter? If it bubbles all the way to court, my understanding is that parish records might be admissible if they are used in a way that satisfies elements of a hearsay exception which I won't go into, except to link this 2017 article about the state of the exception at least as of 2017 ( https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1597&context=ajacourtreview ) Instead looking back to the IRCC document "Weighing the Evidence", see section 11.2, which is about how IRCC deals with Hearsay evidence (which I believe includes old parish records). In important part it says,
-- quote start --
"As such, hearsay can be and is often admitted by the IRB and a decision maker errs in law if the decision maker rejects evidence simply because it is hearsay.Footnote 400 However, the fact that it is hearsay may be considered in determining the weight to be given to the evidence. Panels should normally refer to the rationale behind the rule in assessing the weight of the evidence. For example, evidence which is second- or third-hand information may be given less weight or no weight because it is less likely to be accurate, given the circumstances under which it was communicated.
"If hearsay evidence is rejected because it is not trustworthy, the panel should give reasons for its finding"
-- quote end --
They have made it very clear that certified records are not necessary, so no raised seals or counterfeiting security measures are required for most documents, so it seems very arbitrary to reject a document because its from Drouin instead of BANQ, at least in my non-lawyer opinion.
I look forward to others informed or thoughtful contributions to all this.
From Brilliance Audio, Sandra Burr's 1986 reading of The Valley of Horses by Jean M Auel
I just started listening to Sandra Burr's 1986 reading of The Valley of Horses by Jean M Auel, produced by Brilliance Audio.
I've played CDs in my desktop drive and also a boom box. Burr's voice sounds like it was digitally reproduced rather than a human, in that bad 1980s digital robot sort of way. I've never listened to her read anything before and don't know what is "normal" for her. Google claims that Brilliance Audio has stuck with human narration, and the package seems to say Burr read this the old-fashioned way - but it doesn't sound normal human to me.
Anyone ?
2013, mystery squeak not brakes, goes away with slight brake pedal pressure
2013 Mazda three, 120,000
Rolling down the road there is a rhythmic squeak from the front driver’s side. It’s not the brakes, but the noise goes away with slight brake pedal pressure.
Any guesses?
There's Something MUCH Bigger Than Yellowstone. And It Will Happen Again.
youtube.comWhen the Chain Breaks: Scenarios Where Canadian Citizenship by Descent Still Fails After Bill C-3 : Borders Law firm
This is very interesting article and includes the hilarious line....
Why Section 3 Is So Difficult to Read
Section 3 of the Citizenship Act is not a clean statement of who is a citizen. It is a sedimentary record of every reform Parliament has layered on since 1947, each preserving the one before it.....
"sedimentary record".... gotta love it..... anyway, yes the firm has a line about offering services, but the article is overall a good education piece worth posting.
I~~'m helping my family prep forms to claim Canadian Citizenship by descent. One of the forms to be completed involves family genealogy data, which we already have in an Excel spreadsheet.~~
The form template is Cit0014.pdf found here https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/cit0014.html
With Adobe Acrobat pro, will we be able to tweak that pdf template to assign field names, and in that way reduce errors by executing a merge?
Thanks!
RESOLVED (once we understood the forms it became apparent how to efficiently do this manually)