r/CanadianbyDescent

Every month when IRCC updates its backlog estimates for citizenship certificates, journalists write something slightly deeper for press. They need to dig several layers deeper than that to run real investigative reports.

Forget the fact that IRCC grossly underestimated processing needs. Forget the fact a management system was not put in place to deal with C-3 applications. Forget that management directives from Ottawa don’t seem to acknowledge realities in Nova Scotia.

The real issue is the fact that IRCC has not stepped up to the plate and designed cost-based systems for various immigration needs. If you polled the people made new Canadian citizens after C-3, the majority would say please increase my fees so you can hire qualified people to review my application. No one is looking for handouts. Everyone is looking for transparency and accountability in the process. The only reason it can’t be attained is IRCC staffing and Ottawa oversight.

It's the amount of review required that you want to limit.

We have all spent a lot of time chatting about "primary" vs. "secondary" records to substantiate a claim for citizenship by descent under Bill C-3. It often comes up when people ask the question of whether a particular historical document might be acceptable to IRCC adjudicators.

I've been doing some research to try to figure out why we default to using these terms when they are not used in any binding policy guidance. The best source I have found, which is not official policy, is the slides that were presented to the Association of Canadian Archivists in August of 2026. You can find the slides here on their website.

Per the slides, the answer to this question of whether a particular document will be considered is always this: "Officers must assess all relevant evidence provided by the applicant when assessing an application."

So why obsess over this "primary" vs. "secondary" distinction?

Lawyers will sometimes talk about "primary sources of law" vs. "secondary sources of law." They generally mean that one is a binding governmental source—like a constitution, a statute, a regulation, or a directly applicable case—and the other is a persuasive one—like a scholarly treatise, a dictionary, or a law review article.

The same often goes with evidence submitted to IRCC in complex citizenship cases.

The best way to think about "primary" evidence is probably through a similar lens. Consider the "primary" list in the slides as evidence that a government source that has the authority to decide that a fact has been established as a matter of law has created a document that serves as evidence on which any other governmental agency can rely. It's likely even binding on IRCC.

"Secondary" evidence can be almost anything else from an original or archival custodial authority (church registers, censuses, military records), as long as it's relevant. An officer just has to undertake actual fact-finding under the "balance of probabilities" standard.

Here is the IRCC’s own evidentiary standard: “balance of probabilities – refers to circumstances where the existence of a fact is more likely than its non-existence, and that the issue to be determined is not only possible, but probable, rather than improbable”.

With "primary" evidence, satisfying that balance of probabilities is straightforward because the fact is effectively already established as a matter of law. IRCC only needs to verify the document is genuine; absent contradictory evidence, they don't look behind an official birth certificate to re-litigate where someone was born or to whom.

With so-called "secondary" evidence, the officer can't rely on a legal presumption of validity. They have to evaluate the record's source and weigh whether the cumulative evidence on the record is sufficient to prove that people were born where, when, and to whom the evidence says they were.

If you think about it, in using this distinction, IRCC is primarily interested in not making a decision that is counter to what some other governmental body has already established (in addition to making their own lives much easier).

So in considering what evidence to submit, consider that you need to prove that:

1. There probably isn't a "primary" governmental record to help facilitate IRCC's job, putting the agency on notice that they have to go into factual-review mode;
2. The documentation you did submit is probably true and accurate; and
3. There is sufficient cumulative evidence to prove that the person in question was probably born where, when, and to whom they need to have been to substantiate the citizenship claim.

So, if you don’t have a decisive government document, say why with a few documents and then submit that death certificate alongside that 1850 United States Census and maybe an obituary if that's all you have. Cite to an official agency/archive or original source whenever you can. Try to back up who the informant or respondent likely was and why they are probably qualified to offer that evidence. You don't need to overwhelm the officer, but you should prepare for them to ask questions about what you submitted and perhaps to offer more.

tl;dr: IRCC weighs all relevant evidence. Primary evidence is official documentation that proves a fact quickly. Secondary evidence is the rest that IRCC must actually examine to determine if a fact is more likely than not true.

Edit: Incorporated requested clarification in the closing paragraph about submitting evidence that a decisive government record doesn’t exist.

Started researching in February the minute I heard about it. Gathered what I could find that I could get easily. Ordered the rest. Invited two family members. Ordered from Quebec. Ordered more. And then a few more things. Then several more. Filled out applications. Coordinated getting scans from the others. And photos. Typed a letter. Edited it. Put together lineage. Edited it. Re-edited both. Again. Copied and printed everything. Took over my entire dining room table. Organized. Listed. Labeled. Paperclipped. Learned about the IRCC's preference to have individual applications. Copied and printed again (twice), took over my dining room table again. Organized, listed, labeled everything again (twice). Paid the fee. Wrote letters for two more people. Learned about a late-entry ID renewal. Waited four more days... and today, made one. last. victorious. trip to the print shop.

Printed. Copied. Inserted. Binder clipped one, two, and three. Walked the 2.5-pound stack of meticulous record work to the counter for shipping off. Signed, paid, watched them tape the rigid envelope shut; took my receipt with a tracking number, and left.

Today, after spending more time on Ancestry and Reddit, and more time and money at Fedex than I've ever spent in my life--by god, I finally join the vigil of 135,000 (or how many it is now) waiting for the big, eventual yes.

Please clap. 🍁 😮‍💨

I am a G2 and sent along my application as well as my three daughters’ in mid-May 2026. My oldest daughter was starting at McGill in August and I was told by my lawyer sending them in together would be fine (wouldn’t slow anything down).

Our packet was received by IRCC four days later and now I know I was naive to expect to hear from them… before now. Our lawyer requested urgent processing (not on the envelope, only after with the webform— ugh.) for my daughter (tuition is many times more expensive as an international).

Besides shaking my fist (and more) at my lawyer for missteps, I’m trying to figure out what other avenues might actually help move things along. I keep seeing people recommend contacting their MP, and I understand that an MP’s office can sometimes make an inquiry with IRCC and get information that applicants/lawyers can't easily obtain themselves.

Here’s my problem: the federal electoral seat where my daughter lives is currently vacant, so she doesn’t have an MP who can advocate for her.

My question(s): What can you do if your federal riding doesn’t currently have an MP? Is there another MP, government office, or elected representative who can make an IRCC inquiry on your behalf?

We have a deadline of December 1 to get refunded thousands of dollars in tuition reimbursement.

Thanks so much. I’m feeling a little stuck because everyone says “contact your MP,” but that’s unfortunately not an option for us right now.

This is from 2018, but I think it's even more relevant today, especially with IRCC's long delays in processing applications.

"Immigration lawyer Colin Singer said that since Michelle has not yet received a Canadian citizenship certificate, she is not yet legally a Canadian citizen, so she should be able to travel without issue to Canada with her Swiss passport."

I think I know the answer, but I'm not sure. I wanted to see what other people thought plus some advice on documentation.

Both of my paternal grandparents were born in Canada in the 1930s. They moved to the US in 1955. My father was born in the US. Applying for a certificate should be pretty straightforward, right? I know I can't get legal advice here, but do I seem to have Canadian citizenship after the recent law? I have all the information I need to track down records, but which ones? Will everyone's birth certificates suffice? I have Ancestry.com records proving it, but the only ones that are "printable" (I can view a picture of them) are my grandparents' baptismal records and their US naturalization records. Can include and send them in as part of a citizenship certificate application? I read in the FAQ that I don't need certified copies of records, but I find it hard to believe they'd accept those, even as support.

I'm sure posts like these are constant, so I really appreciate any help/advice.

In case you needed another reason why the Minister's oral statements are unreliable....

After months of work, I sent the packet in today. Chose USPS after looking at prices of UPS and FedEx. So many choices in this process, it's hard not to work into a frenzy. I keep wishing I'd gone through it all one more time, but then how many times would I have done that? It's done. And I'm telling myself, if they return it, I'll resubmit. Now to help my sister and husband. (Of course, my parents' certified marriage license arrived today after I'd decided to submit without it. ha!)

Eight months ago I discovered my great grandfather was Canadian. Born in 1887. Problem is the man changed this last name when he crossed the border. He went from Larrivee to Brown. And he used 3 different birth years. lol even his death certificate had the wrong birthdate.

Among all of the US documents I located about his life, ie petition for immigration, children’s birth certificates, death certificates, census, marriage licenses, draft cards, there was not one document which linked him specifically to his parents in Quebec, Canada. Or his name change.

After putting a request in to my 10th archive organization I located my great grandfathers original social security number application in 1945. On it he listed his mother Elisabeth Brand. (Maiden name).

It’s like I birthed a child. It took me 8-9 months

Hi folks! Some news to share.

Some of you may remember that a few months ago, I released a Tableau-based dashboard to make it easier for all of us to understand and visualize the data in our community spreadsheet. While it was generally well-received, a few people understandably had concerns about the dashboard being publicly accessible, even though the data had been anonymized. To respect those concerns, I took the dashboard down.

Today, I’m happy to announce that I’ve rebuilt the entire dashboard in Google Data Studio, and this version is not publicly accessible. Access is restricted to members of the existing Google group for the spreadsheet, so simply sharing the link will not grant someone access. I’ve also been in touch with both Doug and Nano over the past few months, and they’re aware of the project.

ACCESS NOTE: If you click the link and do not have access, please do not click "Request Access". Use the Google account you signed up with to access the spreadsheet, or request access to the spreadsheet.

Dashboard:
Canadian Citizenship by Descent: Application Timelines

The new version isn’t an exact copy of the original Tableau dashboard, as there are some differences in how Data Studio handles certain visualizations, filters, tooltips, etc. (which.. tbh I don't really like, but most of the same functionality is there, along with a few improvements, and it's private).

A few notes about the data and privacy:

• The dashboard is generated from a sanitized subset of the community spreadsheet and refreshes daily. Only the fields needed for the dashboard are included in the reporting data source.
• No personally identifying information (usernames/emails) is displayed in the dashboard.
• Access is limited to members of the existing spreadsheet Google group.
• Downloading, printing, and resharing through the report have been disabled/restricted.
• As with any shared report (including the spreadsheet), authorized viewers could still take screenshots or manually reproduce information they are able to see, so the access controls shouldn’t be considered an absolute guarantee that information can never leave the report.
• If your access to the Google group is removed, you should also lose access to the dashboard.

This project has also been a lot of fun for me personally. I’ve spent much of my career working in data science/data analytics and building dashboards and reporting tools for executives, so getting to apply some of that experience to a community project like this has been really enjoyable.

For anyone interested in helping make this better, please let me know! I’m happy to provide editor access to people who want to contribute or help improve the visualizations.

I’m also very happy to take suggestions, feedback, bug reports, or ideas for additional ways of looking at the data. And, especially given the concerns around the original version, if anyone has a privacy concern about a particular visualization or data field, please feel free to reach out and I’m happy to review it.

Hopefully this gives everyone another useful way to explore the timeline data while keeping access within the existing community. Enjoy!

My application was rejected for the following:

"Your application for a citizenship certificate was considered incomplete and was not processed and fees were not taken. The application and proof of payment are therefore returned to you for the following reasons:

You have not submitted a clear and legible colour copy of your birth certificate demonstrating the child/parent relationship. The document should be issued by the authorities in the country of birth.

Hospital birth certificates are not acceptable."

My birth certificate is issued by Monroe County, NY. I have no say in what is on it. The photo's are on me, I should have done a better job of printing them.

Here is the real issue, my biologic father was never on my birth certificate. He abandoned my mother shortly after he got her pregnant. Probably because he was married and his wife just had a baby. Come to find out I have 7 half brothers and sisters. The reason I know all of this is because of 23 and Me and Ancestry.

I have DNA proof of who my father was. I have his birth certificate, my grandparents marriage license, my Canadian grandmother's (and her twin sister's) birth record, I have all of the marriage licenses and birth certificates and US Census records for my oldest sibling and two sets of DNA records proving we are half siblings.

I stated clearly in my cover letter with my application what the situation was and the chain of events. I am not sure how to proceed. I am guessing I need a Canadian immigration lawyer.

Has anyone had a similar situation and gotten through it?

Application says decision has been made. I recieved Aor Aug 28, in process next day and now status shows decision has been made but how long before they let me know or send email telling me what it is.

I finally sent in my application packet a few weeks ago, and today I just realized I never wrote my name and the name/ address of the business on the back of the photo. Has anyone made this mistake? as I see it, I could 1. wait and see what happens or 2. proactively reach out to ask or try to re-submit new photos.

Sharing my timeline for anyone waiting on a NARA order:

• June 21, 2026: Submitted my order for a certified copy of an 1860 census record.
• October 5, 2026: Received it in the mail!

About 3½ months total. It arrived with a signed certification, gold seal and red ribbon.

I'm working on a Bill 3-C citizenship claim, for which I am G4. The wait time for a certified copy of my G1 ancestor's birth certificate is 5-6 months. (Traveling to the state archive in person will not change this; I asked.) Given the current wait times, I am wondering if I can apply ASAP with one document that is a digital copy from a database, and add the certified copy when it arrives?

Since they say they don’t need “certified” copies for the C3 application from the original, official agency where we are ordering some of our documents from, (e.g. Archives of Ontario, NARA, BANQ, Service Ontario, etc.), will you get your docs faster if you just order a non-certified copy instead of a certified one?

The way it seems, it’s as if they have just a handful of Certifiers sitting in a high, lofty office with a special stamp or embossment device and tall stacks of documents that they need to study, verify, THEN finally certify. Is it just me? 😆. But seriously, it seems like it‘s taking MONTHS between the ”Found it!” email and the “Stamped it! Now here’s how you pay for it” email. So, I’m wondering if it’s any faster to just bypass the high & lofty certifying office for a birth record in Canada. Has anyone ordered just non-certified copies with a quicker timeline?

A very detailed law journal article on an issue that faces many Canadians by Descent.

I’ve seen several people post that the DEC charged their cards right away. They’ve had my packet for over a week with no charge. Has anyone had the DEC take a while to charge their card? It would make sense that they are swamped and a bit slower than normal with all the requests, but it’s making me nervous. I did send a card number for a card that’s been used for multiple Canadian charges including the translation service and expenses while on a recent trip to Vancouver so it shouldn’t be an issue with the card.

I sent everything they could have needed including original death certificate, certified translation, notarized explanation of need, documents linking me to my G0, my AOR letter, etc. but of course this process is enough to make anyone paranoid about the process.