My problem with "Marley treats Eldians better than the rest of the world."

The Eldians vs. the rest of the world dynamic in AOT has always seemed less believable to me than a lot of people are willing to admit.

The Titan curse really does prevent any direct equivalence with real-world racism. Eldians are not simply a minority that had monstrous traits invented about them. They belong to a population that can literally be turned into Titans. There is, therefore, a material threat involved that has no direct equivalent in our world.

The problem is that this does not automatically make any level of hatred plausible.

The existence of worldwide racism against Eldians makes sense. What makes less sense is its intensity, its uniformity, and especially the idea that Eldians would be treated even worse outside Marley.

Udo explicitly states that Eldians have it worse in other countries than they do in Marley. But Marley is probably the country with the strongest historical conditions for developing the most extreme anti-Eldian sentiment possible.

The Marleyan state built its legitimacy around the defeat of the old Eldian Empire, segregated Eldians into internment zones, reduced them to second-class citizens, created an entire ideological system based on inherited guilt, and at the same time continued using those same people as weapons.

After Eldia, Marley also became the major imperial power of recent history.

If there is any place where it would make sense for hatred of Eldians to become structural, survive across generations, and become part of the national identity itself, that place is Marley.

The rest of the world also has contemporary reasons to hate Eldians. During the last century, Marley continued using them as weapons of war. For someone from a country invaded by Marley, the first Eldian they ever saw could literally have been a Titan destroying their city.

The disappearance of the Eldian Empire did not mean the disappearance of the Titans.

But that should produce enormous differences between societies, not an almost homogeneous international hostility.

Marley is the one turning Eldians into Titans and unleashing them against other peoples. Marley controls the Warriors, uses Eldians in its military, and built its hegemony precisely on that power. Foreign populations could obviously come to hate the weapon being used against them as well, but there is still a huge leap from that to practically every place in the world being worse for Eldians than Marley itself.

There is also no reason to assume that every country had exactly the same historical relationship with Eldia.

The Eldian Empire existed for centuries and dominated large parts of the world, but it was not a politically static mass for almost two thousand years. Territories were conquered, lost, and contested, and the Great Titan War itself happened during a period of internal conflict and disintegration before Karl Fritz withdrew to Paradis.

Different regions probably stopped being under direct Eldian influence at different points in history. For Marley, the fall of Eldia happened around a hundred years ago and is directly tied to the birth of its current political order. For other peoples, their last concrete experience of Eldian rule could have happened much earlier.

Even if everyone had been freed at exactly the same time, different societies would still preserve that memory in different ways.

Historical memory survives across generations, but its emotional intensity does not remain frozen in time. Propaganda, education, religion, nationalism, and institutions can keep old hatred alive, but that hatred has to be continuously reproduced.

There is also desensitization.

Constant hatred takes energy. Obsession takes energy. People have immediate problems, local conflicts, family, work, hunger, religion, political disputes, recent wars. Crimes committed against their ancestors can remain important without an entire population staying emotionally mobilized as if they had personally witnessed those crimes themselves.

At certain points, the world's hatred of Eldians in AOT feels almost metaphysical. Entire generations, across completely different societies, seem emotionally organized around hatred of a single group.

The problem becomes even more obvious after the timeskip.

A genuinely large world should have countries that hate Eldians for different reasons, countries that simply tolerate them, regions where they have been partially assimilated, states that expelled them, others that use them militarily, societies where the Eldian question has lost importance, and places where the historical trauma remains extremely alive.

That would give the outside world a history of its own.

Instead, AOT compresses almost everything into a very convenient idea: outside Paradis, practically everyone hates Eldians, and many places apparently treat them even worse than Marley.

The Titan threat also does not fully explain this level of dehumanization.

The fear is justified, but Titan power was not a completely incomprehensible force to these societies. Eldians do not spontaneously transform in the middle of the street. Pure Titans normally have to be created through spinal fluid. The Nine are specific individuals. The very fact that Marley can keep enormous Eldian populations inside internment zones shows that an ordinary Eldian is not a bomb waiting to randomly explode.

There is a huge difference between believing that a particular group can be turned into a weapon and regarding every individual member of that group as a monster who deserves to be exterminated.

Societies can cross that distance through propaganda, fear, and dehumanization. The problem is that AOT develops that process very well inside Marley while barely developing anything equivalent in the rest of the world.

The relationship between Ymir, the Paths, the Founder, and the Hallucigenia still leaves some things deliberately ambiguous, but the Titan power known to the world has observable rules and limitations. It operates through the Subjects of Ymir, the Paths, the Nine Titans, and especially the Founder. It is not simply a random force whose manifestations nobody understands.

In the end, I think this is one of those parts where AOT's thematic needs start overriding its worldbuilding.

The story needed Paradis to reach the other side of the sea and discover a world that feared them. It needed Paradis itself to become an international problem with no simple solution. That is necessary for practically everything that comes afterward.

But in order to create that deadlock, Isayama made the outside world too uniform.

Hatred of Eldians is plausible. Very plausible, actually. Centuries of Eldian imperialism, historical memory, propaganda, and especially Marley's recent use of Eldians as weapons provide more than enough reasons.

The problem is that almost all of these societies seem to have reached such similar levels of dehumanization, with so few exceptions, and several of them apparently became even worse than the very state whose modern identity was born directly out of its conflict with Eldia.

The question was never why the world would hate Eldians.

There are more than enough reasons.

The question is why almost the entire world hates them this much, and in such similar ways.

And AOT simply did not develop the outside world enough to make that completely convincing.

reddit.com
u/BrainletNutshell — 1 day ago

Is it just me, or are there relatively few ambitious long-form AOT fics considering the size of the fandom?

By "ambitious," I mean a fic that aims to tackle canon conflicts in one way or another, even if radically differently; rather than just rehashing the plot (like, for instance, a post-Rumbling Eren and/or Mikasa going back in time, where the time loop isn't deeply explored but merely serves as a starting point).

AoT currently has over 100,000 works on AO3; it’s in the top 10 anime fandoms by volume and the top 20 fandoms across the entire site.

It’s been five years since the manga ended, yet I’ve noticed that tropes attempting, to say, create lore and a narrative function for the Hallucigenia (the source of all living matter), expand the cosmology, or reveal the Paradis vs. Marley vs. the World conflict as merely part of a larger struggle, are still only just emerging.

Crossovers, for example, offer huge potential to expand the AoT narrative, but there are two types: those where Eren is isekai'd to another universe (leaving the AoT setting behind, nothing against them, but I prefer stories where the crossover takes place within the AoT universe without sidelining the major conflicts). There are a few crossover with Godzilla and others, but that's about it.

I know there are probably around 20 or so long-form fics like this, but that still feels like very few given the fandom's size.

Curiously, most of these ambitious fics are found on Fanfiction.net, even though AO3 hosts the overwhelming majority of fanfiction; I’m not sure why that disparity exists. Maybe it’s because the series ended up being quite different from how it looked twenty, or even ten, chapters prior, but I still find it strange that the AO3 fandom doesn't place more importance on this type of fic.

reddit.com
u/BrainletNutshell — 6 days ago

Do you know of any AOT fics featuring ErenMika along with new power systems and/or new fantasy worldbuilding, whether they are crossovers or not, that maintain the conflict between Paradis and Marley?

Most stories like this get abandoned before the plot reaches the Marley arc and, by extension, before developing a potential relationship between Eren and Mikasa, even if that was the original intention.

An example: https://m.fanfiction.net/s/11283489/1/Strange-Monkey-Boy

A Dragon Ball crossover where Gohan ends up in the aot universe.

This is a Ben 10 crossover where Eren gets the Omnitrix; although it's still in the early stages, it seems to be heading in that direction. It’s truly one of the most ambitious fics in the fandom.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/63508849

reddit.com
u/BrainletNutshell — 14 days ago

Regarding the lack of regenerative medicine in MHA, how would you handle that in a fanfic?

Although there aren't many questions about MHA's technology that are crucial to the canon, I think that in the context of fanfiction, where world-building can be explored from a different perspective; it’s worth addressing a point that, in the canon, seems justified mainly by the idea that "it would be easier for the author to dramatize the plot without it."

What I mean is, given the roughly 150 years since the dawn of the Quirk era, it’s a fact that technological development stagnated in the early decades due to civil chaos; yet, MHA's technology is considerably more advanced than ours when you look beyond what civilians use in their daily lives. I agree the gap seems marginal when compared to other sci-fi works, but it doesn't seem marginal when compared to what we have now.

Even without considering Quirk-focused tech, they have robots like the Zero-Pointers, which were already considered an old tradition at UA.

We don't have anything truly comparable to a Zero-Pointer, and it's hard to even imagine us having something like that in just a few decades. A building-sized robot like that is orders of magnitude beyond the capabilities of our robotics engineering.

*But my point is: despite all that technology, MHA lacks regenerative medicine.*

An amputation or a severe, disabling injury has the same impact there as it does in our reality, even for a wealthy person, because there isn't much that can be done to restore things to how they were before.

The biggest difference is that their limb prosthetics are superior to ours, but even mechanically speaking, synthetic organ technology doesn't seem very advanced; after all, a hero like Mirai died in the hospital a day after his internal organs were destroyed.

Within the canon, all of this can be justified as the author maintaining the work's dramatic tension, but how do we handle it in the world of fanfiction and headcanons?

Technology stagnated when Quirks first appeared, but progress resumed after a while, presumably with individuals possessing intelligence-enhancing Quirks leading scientific research across the board. Given that Quirk studies intensified, and considering that Quirks are biological, wouldn't it make sense for MHA's medical technology to be far more advanced than our own, just as their mechanical technology is?

reddit.com
u/BrainletNutshell — 2 months ago

Recommend me fanfics where Izuku trained A LOT

I'd like to see your best recommendations for fics where Izuku's training is exceptionally brutal, grueling, or borderline insane. It doesn't necessarily need to have dedicated training arcs that last for countless chapters, though you can still recommend them if you think they're worth it. What I really want to see is that his absurd training is actually noticed and pointed out by other characters in the story, having a relevant impact on the plot.

reddit.com
u/BrainletNutshell — 2 months ago

To what extent do you think 5% Deku can be used as a baseline for characters without a physical enhancement quirk?

We've clearly seen that it's possible to reach 5% Deku's level without a physical enhancement quirk when Deku faced Stain. Certainly, Stain trained for decades, but we saw that 5% Deku wasn't several leagues above his classmates.

Against Monoma, for example, whose quirk isn't based on offensive power.

In the final arc, practically everyone in Class 1-A experienced overall growth. Do you think it's unreasonable to say that 5% Deku's feats in the Island-I arc are a baseline for the characters in Classes 1-A and 1-B later on? Specifically speaking of those who don't have an enhancement quirk or a strong offensive quirk that implies greater durability, like Bakugou and Todoroki (who are obviously far superior to 5% Deku).

​

People talk about how the author doesn't care much about powerscaling, which is true, but it doesn't mean he doesn't pay any attention to it. So I'd like to know from you guys if, to this day, Deku 5% could be considered a reliable baseline for scaling characters without an enhancement quirk.

u/BrainletNutshell — 2 months ago

Why did Musashi almost kill Hanayama when he had spared Doppo?

Something I never understood was the fact that Baki needed to intervene in that fight, which means that Hanayama didn't really want to accept death if he was defeated, as was the case with Retsu. And one more thing, Hanayama wasn't using weapons like the soldiers Musashi killed, so given Musashi's characterizationi, there was no reason for him to have chosen to slice Hanayama after defeated.

u/BrainletNutshell — 3 months ago

An edit of the old Soviet animation 'Leopold the Cat'. Shazam didn't work. I only have this recording. I found this recording on Tiktok

u/BrainletNutshell — 3 months ago

Short analog horror meme featuring Trollge and SpongeBob. Shazam couldn't find the song. I only have this recording. I found this recording on Facebook.

u/BrainletNutshell — 3 months ago