u/CharmingBozoBee

Considering both appear in most of season 4 (Mark only absent in Anger Management, Coffee Cart Ban, Dinner for Too Many, and Roller Coaster, and Stacey only absent in Quinn Misses the Mark) and certainly more than Dustin that season (who was only in 3 episodes yet still in the opening credits), should Stacey and Mark have been promoted to the intro in season 4?

It is also during this season (as well as some of the later season 3 episodes) where the end credits include scenes of Stacey and Mark too in most episodes (which was initially for main cast members with Zoey and Chase getting two clips most of the time). Granted that might've been to compensate for Chase being gone for most of season 4 and Dustin barely appearing making it so they initially had only 5 main regular cast members at the start of the season (joined by James four episodes in) and having to fill the end credit clips out more (notably, most episodes have Lola and Quinn get two clips in the end credits, some with Michael and James getting two clips, and even Logan got two clips for Vince is Back's end credits, plus Coco, Lisa, and Vince getting end credit clips at least once that season). And episodes like Fake Roommate, Alone at PCA, and the start of Rumor of Love showing Mark hanging out with the main group in even-ing the guy/girl ratio in the time period after Chase left and before James joined.

Do you all think Stacey and Mark should've been promoted to main credits in season 4 with how they're in most of the season?

I ask because the show does have a continuity and also wasn't aired in the production order.

I do wonder though if it makes much of a difference watching in production order instead of broadcast?

Obviously, Saving Wiz-Tech (production codes 208-209) takes place before Harper Knows (production code 206) due to Harper still not knowing about the Russos being wizards at this point, but that's been the only time the broadcast order would be the valid intended order.

Notably, going in production order would explain season 3 where Alex goes back and forth for a while between short hair from the start of the season and longer hair again since they were aired out of filming order. Positive Alex and Detention Election were production code 308 and 309 and Alex has her shorter hair from the first seven episodes of the season. Whereas Alex Charms a Boy and Wizards vs. Werewolves (aka the Mason introduction story arc) were production codes 313-315 and have Alex with her longer hair from the middle of the season, yet they were aired before Positive Alex and Detention Election (the Stevie story arc was also produced earlier with codes 310-312, but Alex has her longer hair again so it isn't as obvious when that aired after the Mason introduction arc). Then the rest of the season with production codes 316-330 have Alex with shorter hair again but slightly longer and curlier than in 301-307, though Dude Looks Like Shakira (production code 317) was aired before the Stevie story arc where Alex had longer hair.

Granted by season 4, the broadcast vs airing order isn't nearly as out of synch as before with the only major one being Rock Around the Clock being produced as episode 414 but aired after episodes with production codes 415-426.

Makes me ask, does watching in the production order (aside from Saving Wiz-Tech where the broadcast order of being before Harper Knows made more sense) feel like the right intended chronological order or is the broadcast order the right one?

I know Justin's the one that get brought up the most for flanderization (though as someone who's been watching the show recently, his doesn't really set in until season 4), but Jerry and Theresa also feel even more noticeable earlier.

Around halfway through season 3, they do start to lean into how Jerry and Theresa aren't good parents and episodes like Delinquent Justin, Alex's Logo, Alex Russo Matchmaker, and Captain Jim Bob Sherwood where they either openly admit they aren't good parents or going out of their way to avoid trying to help out Alex and Justin when they need help and ignoring Max (at one point openly having no faith that Alex and Max would ever graduate high school). There's also more moments where they do lean more into how much Jerry loves eating (compared to the first two seasons where it wasn't nearly as prominent).

Feels odd considering how in the first two seasons, we saw Jerry and Theresa genuinely try to be decent parents (they weren't perfect but they were putting in more of an effort) with Jerry trying to be more responsible as a parent and even in the first half of season 3, they genuinely tried to comfort Alex when she was sad about Mason seemingly cheating on her, compared to later where they're openly trying to avoid helping their kids and admitting they aren't good parents. At one point in late season 3, Alex even openly says "I'm raising myself" when Theresa proves to be unhelpful which makes one wonder if Jerry and Theresa's flanderization explains so much regarding Alex's reckless behavior and Justin being more of a jerk in season 4.

I know over the years, we've brought up the romance, behind the scenes drama, mean spirited moments, and more, but one thing I'd like to spotlight on are the wholesome moments on the show.

What would you all say are the most wholesome moments on the show? It can be more than one, I encourage it.

Looking back at Nicole's time on the show in the first two seasons, anyone wish she had gotten more interactions with the group that don't involve Zoey?

I know her departure after season 2 definitely impacted things, but even in the first two seasons they didn't do much with her relationship with the group outside Zoey.

At best, her and Dana's friendship is focused on in New Roomies and Jet-X, but those still have Zoey around as an intermediary. She also got a subplot with Quinn in Time Capsule with helping her with her snoring problem and Broadcast Views giving another subplot where Lola and Quinn are paired with her to hypnotize her to help with her boy crazy behavior interfering with her grades but that's about it. And she also didn't get any storylines or moments on her interacting with Chase, Michael, or Logan at all.

Anyone wish Nicole had gotten more of her friendships with the main group explored outside of Zoey?

Considering the episode ended with Trina getting into a fight with Perez Hilton, Beck and Jade arguing over Beck not being more upfront about the cheerleader being a little girl, Andre's laptop destroyed by his grandmother, Cat crying when Tori yelled at her for being distracted, and Tori no closer to finishing the script (and having to also stop Trina from hurting Perez too bad), what do you all think happened after that?

Do you think Tori, Beck, Andre, and Cat ever managed to finish their script? Did Cat forgive Tori after she yelled at her? Did Beck, Andre, and Cat try to work and finish the assignment later? And did Trina get in trouble for harassing Perez Hilton?

Considering how Retest seemed to paint Alex as causing everything to go wrong with Justin and Max blaming her for the Aunt Megan situation, kinda do wonder what you (the viewers) would've done if you were in Alex's position in that episode?

For context, the family needed Aunt Megan to be with them in order to do the wizard competition or else the entire Russo family would've lost their powers. Justin initially tried to be honest with Aunt Megan about the entire situation only for Megan to refuse to help out no matter what. This in turn leads Alex to lie to Megan about Jerry and Kelbo wanting to apologize to her just so she would agree to be teleported back to the family and do the wizard competition. Of course, this starts to go wrong with Jerry refuses to apologize or even give a fake apology to Megan and they start bickering, and then Kelbo comes in and teleports Megan back to her home, ending with Alex getting blamed for things going wrong and the family nearly losing their wizard powers. Notably weird how they blame Alex despite the fact her lying was the only way for Aunt Megan to agree to reunite with the family and do the wizard competition and they still would've pulled off Megan being at the competition (since she can't just go back to her home in Paris that fast) had Kelbo not used his magic to teleport her back home.

With that in mind, what would you have done if you were in Alex's position in Retest regarding "Aunt Megan refusing to cooperate and reunite for the family wizard competition"?

Only talking about how the characters are in the show, not their actors in real life.

Among the main cast, who would you say was the nicest in the group?

Between Zoey, Chase, Michael, Quinn, Lola, Dustin, Nicole, and James (it's obvious the answer would never be Logan or Dana unless it's a joke answer), who was the nicest person in the group?

I do find it ridiculous how many people seem to claim David and Jane are bad parents (often lumped in with the Turners from Fairly OddParents, Peter & Lois Griffin, Stephen & Linda Stotch, among others) and thinking Arthur's their least favorite kid.

I get Play It Again DW and Arthur's Big Hit didn't have the best portrayal of them, but I feel people only use those episodes to base off their opinions for David and Jane despite only being 2 in over hundreds of other episodes.

Like, remember the times they were genuinely great parents to Arthur like:

• April 9th: David comforting Arthur when he is traumatized over seeing him in danger from the school fire
• Arthur's Family Feud: Both parents actually hear both Arthur and DW out instead of just blindly punishing them and letting both of them off easy when finding out they only caused the soufflé to fall over by accident
• Cast Away: David does everything he can to spend time with Arthur, only getting sidetracked by stuff beyond his control such as Jane forcing him to take DW with him to the museum due to being busy with Kate and her work, having to work the next weekend (which forced him to take DW just to get her to stop complaining about him favoring Arthur over her), and Arthur spraining his ankle that forced him to skip a day of father-son fishing. And the end does have him go out of his way to comfort Arthur when he gets frustrated by everything going wrong.
• All Worked Up: Jane comforts Arthur when he feels sad about her being too busy at work and even helps him study for math
• Lost: David and Jane get super concerned and panicked when finding out Arthur didn't make it to swim lessons and Jane even admitting it to be the worst phone call ever when hearing Arthur was missing.
• The Cave: David giving Arthur good advice on how to deal with caves on his field trip.

More often than not, David and Jane have shown how much they care for Arthur and helped him out. Certainly not on "Arthur's the least favorite" levels people claim.