u/Cyborg800-V2

I've recently played through the MSX games for the first time as well as have just replayed MGS1 and 2. In between, I also played Splinter Cell 1 and Pandora Tomorrow.

All of these are good if not great games, but I feel that the overall gameplay evolved very little after Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake in 1990 through MGS1, 2, and even 3. I have never played 4, but have beaten Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes, plus have played 10 hours of Phantom Pain.

I feel like MG2 had more involved stealth and MGS1 downplayed it in pursuit of cinematic flair, which admittedly worked. Both MGS1 and 2 are more linear and the Zelda/Metroid-like mechanic of finding items to revisit previous obstacles feel more like obligations. What backtracking they have is to pad out their short lengths, as is adding new obstacles like mines in previous areas without warning.

From 1990-2004, the games were still relying on a top-down camera and binary form of stealth. All MGS1 did was add first person view. Yes, MGS2 added great stuff like first person aiming, ledge hanging, and corner peeking, but the gameplay is otherwise little-changed from MG2 from 1990. MGS3's additions like the camo and food systems are almost gimmicky and it's telling that later releases included a camera system inspired by Splinter Cell due to how the new and old design elements conflicted. Stuff like the Revolver Ocelot fight in MGS1 and the Solidus Snake sword fight in MGS2 also highlight Kojima prioritizing spectacle despite it not necessarily gelling with the dated controls, resulting in clunky annoying gameplay moments.

Meanwhile, Thief was released in 1998 like MGS1, but had a light and shadow mechanic and more advanced enemy AI. Splinter Cell from 2002 had light and shadow mechanics as well coupled with a more modern camera and variety of moves.

I love Metal Gear, but I feel that as stealth games, until MGSV, they were surpassed by the competition and were elevated by Kojima indulging in gimmicks like the Psycho Mantis fight rather than genuine gameplay depth.

I'm a relative newbie to JRPGs. I beat the PSP versions of Final Fantasy I and IV and the mobile version of Final Fantasy III years ago, but have been itching to play more JRPGs. I'm building a todo list of other franchises I want to go through, including Phantasy Star, Mana, Star Ocean, Tales, and more.

I own an Xbox, which isn't the best platform for RPGs, but I'm comfortable setting up emulators and applying romhacks and translations.

I've been researching the SaGa games and I'm conflicted over which versions I should play.

• The Final Fantasy Legend games have colorization hacks, but there's also a WonderSwan remake of the original (I'm a sucker for 16-bit graphics) and DS remakes of the second and third. I understand that the DS remakes are faithful in some ways, but then 3's makes changes to be closer in-line with the other games since the creator of the franchise didn't work on the original but did work on the remake.
• Romancing SaGa has the Super Famicom version with an English translation that's apparently buggy, but also the Minstrel Song remake that is closer to the original vision but has a different art style and major changes. If the WonderSwan version had an English translation, I'd include that as an option as well.
• Romancing SaGa 2 has two versions on Xbox, a remaster preserving the original game and a 3D remake that adds major quality of life features.
• Romancing SaGa 3 has a remaster on Xbox.

I'm conflicted over whether I should be experiencing these games through their original versions, warts and all, or be playing the remakes/remasters that iron out the issues, which means switching between multiple decades and not being able to appreciate the evolution of the franchise.

In particular, Romancing SaGa's SFC version is apparently rough, though I'll do research before playing to understand what the game doesn't tell you, but has the typical beautiful 16-bit art style, while Minstrel Song's art style is divisive but is more polished and includes cut content. Romancing SaGa 2 is loved across both versions, but I don't know if I'd play the remaster or remake.

What are your thoughts and/or recommendations?

I have a Macbook Pro with Apple Silicon M3 chip and was thinking of trying to play them remotely on my Xbox Series X.

I mainly plan on playing retro PC games like the GOG versions of the original Resident Evil trilogy (got the original with upscaled backgrounds working using Heroic Games Launcher) and the Steam versions of Final Fantasy VII-IX (which are supported on Mac using SummoningKit). You can already get emulators working using Dev Mode.

I feel like I have less to say about this one than I did with the first. It's an easier time and I love stuff like instant lockpicking and optic cable options for doors, opening doors while carrying bodies, alarm levels going down after a while, and the whistle.

However, while the levels show more variety than the original and you get some interesting segments like going through a train or following Dahlia in the streets of Jerusalem, their length prevent them from sticking in my mind as much as the original. The atmosphere and music are still strong, just not as memorable.

The game starts out really strong and I'd say it's more consistent quality-wise than the original. I love the first five levels: Embassy, Lab, Train, Jerusalem, and Jungle. However, the game once again falls short in the end. Playing on Xbox with checkpoints drastically impacts the difficulty. The TV station level with that one outdoor section in the rain with flashes of thunder and LAX with the room full of innocents and terrorists you had to kill were challenging, though I'd say the game is easier than the original and than its reputation suggests.

I'm going to replay MGS1-3 before I move on to Chaos Theory because I know that game's going to set the bar really high. I'm working on a stealth survival horror game in Godot and have been playing these titles, many for the first time, as research.

Here's my ranking of the levels:

1. Jungle
2. Embassy
3. Lab
4. Jerusalem
5. TV Station
6. Shipyard
7. Train
8. LAX

It's remarkable how well the game aged visually and gameplay-wise. It might not look as photorealistic as it did in 2002, but a strong art direction always trumps realism. Control-wise, it's funny how it came out just a year after MGS2, yet is basically modern aside from raising your weapon with x rather than left trigger.

Thief and Splinter Cell were overshadowed by MGS, but have far more involved stealth mechanics and I think MGS spent most of its lifespan playing catch-up, with Ground Zeroes, my favorite gameplay-wise, basically being SC1 from 12-13 years earlier with some QOL features like improved movement and less binary detection. In fact, I'm working on a personal hobby project blending Ground Zeroes's aforementioned QOL features, open map design, and on-site procurement with Splinter Cell's stealth.

I love most of the game, but the last three levels see a severe difficulty spike with forced combat mechanics that don't work because of how poor Fisher's aiming is, even when stationary with the reticle as small as possible. I had played every level up to and including Chinese Embassy 1 on PC last year but switched to Xbox and the lack of quicksaves really affects the difficulty. On one hand, it results in more tense gameplay and you have to live with the consequences, but the placement of checkpoints exacerbates frustrating sections like Chinese Embassy 2's thermal keypad room that leads to a turret or Presidential Palace's opening.

If I had to rank the levels, it'd be like this:

1. CIA HQ
2. Police Station
3. Defense Ministry
4. Kalinatek
5. Chinese Embassy 1
6. Presidential Palace
7. Training
8. Oil Refinery
9. Abattoir
10. Chinese Embassy 2

I'm looking forward to playing the three bonus levels before moving on to Pandora Tomorrow and especially Chaos Theory.

From what I've heard, the franchise became even more popular in North America during the Smith era and the 50th Anniversary was the peak of the popularity.

Quality-wise, I haven't seen beyond Whittaker's first episode, which was solid, but considering the Moffat era dominated the 2010s with him being showrunner from 2010-2017, I find the idea that there was a decline in quality questionable.

Yes, Moffat's era had its high and lows, but so does every era. Are Series 6, 7, or 8 really that noticeable of a drop when the peak in quality people are referencing includes Series 2? I personally find Series 4 to be the only standout and 1-3 are mixed bags. 6-8 at least feel more tonally consistent. I watched Series 1's first three episodes and found them dated. Series 5 was what made me a fan and emboldened me to go through 1-4.

Many of the best episodes of RTD1 were written by Moffat. His era reduced the camp and soap opera and was more daring. Capaldi's run may have seen a ratings drop and Series 8 wasn't the best transition, but Series 9 and 10's quality cannot be understated.

I'm exploring an idea of mine using Godot that blends the light and sound stealth mechanics of Splinter Cell and Thief with classic Resident Evil's exploration and Metal Gear Solid's dynamic overhead camera that transitions and changes based on player position. Inspired by MGS2, I've implemented corner peek and first person aiming (with the player unable to move and only able to look 90 degrees left and right).

I love the cinematic camera angles of classic RE, but recognize that tank controls are a barrier of entry to newcomers, so I feel that MGS2's camera is a middle-ground.

For me personally, I feel passionate about using this camera style because it lends a unique cinematic feel and doesn't provide the player the power of a traditional third person camera. It'd encourage the player to be more methodical and feel more vulnerable. Following Thief's AI behavior rather than the binary alarm states of MGS and SC coupled with the light meter should ideally avoid the frustration some have with classic MGS's camera and stealth.

I'd like to see a second opinion on this. What are the positives and negatives of my choice of camera? How would they impact the gameplay of Thief and Splinter Cell?