The engineering approach to fan curves: Using real control engineering and a PI-Controller. Thoughts?

So, I'm used to the crappy Corsair software. I currently control my fans based on water temp using a classic fan curve. This makes my fans run louder than necessary, or spin too slowly during the summer months.

​I want my fans to always run at the lowest RPM possible to achieve a specific water temp under load. My idea is: what if I constantly keep the water temp at around 42°C under load, and only let the fans spin exactly as fast as they need to maintain that target? But with a strict minimum of 450 RPM. Always.

​A fellow mechanical engineering guy and I looked at this from a control engineering standpoint: We'd use a normal base fan curve that works for the system, based on either water temp or Delta T (I guess Delta T would work better). Which is called feedforward control. Then, we'd combine it with a PI controller that adds or subtracts PWM% from the fan curve's baseline. The minimum RPM would still be locked at 450; the PI wouldn't be able to drop it below that.

​Scenario: Water temp is too low (System louder than necessary)

The logic would work like this: The "dumb" base curve claims "We need 45% PWM at 38°C water temp." The water stays at 38°C, but the system is unnecessarily loud. Then the PI controller steps in: "No, we don't need that much fan RPM. Our goal is 42°C under load, so I'm going to instantly subtract X PWM% (Proportional) and continue subtracting a tiny PWM% from your baseline every second (Integral) until we hit our target."

​Scenario: Water temp is too high

When the water temp exceeds the desired 42°C load temp, the base curve might claim "We only need 50% PWM for this current water temp." But in the summer, that’s just not true. The PI controller intervenes: "No, you need a bit more PWM% to prevent the water from going way above 42°C, so I'm going to add a bit more PWM% until we are there. I exactly know how much I need to add over time to make it perfect" The PI will slowly get more aggressive if the water tries to climb above 42°C. The further the water temp drifts above the target, the more PWM% it adds.

​This way, the system will never run too hot, and it will never run too cold (which just means unnecessarily loud fans).

​What do you guys think about this Idea? Do you have any suggestions? I think it is also a good idea to use the current power draw of the system to make it more intelligent

​And yes, I'm an absolute enthusiast, lol

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u/DerKleineRudi00 — 2 hours ago

Does Aquasuite have a feature to set a custom closed loop control? (Control engineering)

Hello, im looking for a way to optimize my loop and have a really specific question about Aquasuite and the octo.

Does it offer a way to control the fans by a true controller in a way of actual control engineering?

Most standard fan control software (also my current corsair / crappy software) simply relies on basic curve interpolated lookup tables (aka. Temp X means Fan PWM% Y). But what im looking for is a real professional closed loop control system.

I would like to use a feedforward control (fan curve) along with a feedback controller like a PI. In professional control engineering, combining a feedforward table with a feedback trim is a standard practice, as one single fan curve never works perfectly for summer and winter.

Can I create this specific type of controller in aquasuite? I would need to set up mathematical equations..

Thanks in advance.

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u/DerKleineRudi00 — 10 hours ago

Würdet ihr eine 5080 mit einem 5800X kombinieren?

Ein Freund möchte dies tun, da der seinen PC etwas upgraden will. Ich rate ihm davon ab, da der 5800x die 5080 sicherlich stark bremst.

Was haltet ihr davon?

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u/DerKleineRudi00 — 8 days ago

Meine Scam Schätzung: 80% der RAM Anzeigen sind scam!

Ich habe bestimmt 8 Leute angeschrieben und wirklich ALLE waren scammer! Ich verstehe nicht, wieso Kleinanzeigen da nichts dagegen tut..

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u/DerKleineRudi00 — 8 days ago

How much did you guys pay for your water-cooling loop?

I paid around €1,100. But it was worth it. The stuff will last for at least 10 years.

​

So hw much did you pay guys? I think you gotta spend at least 600€.

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u/DerKleineRudi00 — 19 days ago

Which CPU cooler should I buy? (Am5)

I'm looking for a full metal CPU water cooler for AM5. There are different ones out there and I don't know which one to buy. The most important things for me are that it's fully made out of metal and that it lasts. And It should not cost 300€..

​

Which of them should I buy? Or something completely different?

​

- Watercool heatkiller IV Pro - 105€

- Alphacool core 1 - 106€

- EK Quantum Velocity2 Full Nickel - 135€

- Alphacool Eisblock XPX Full Brass - 80€

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u/DerKleineRudi00 — 21 days ago

Ein Pärchen an der Ampel hat heute über meinen Auto-Sticker gelacht

Heute stand ich an einer roten Ampel und habe nur durch Zufall einen Blick in den Rückspiegel geworfen. Hinter mir im Auto saß ein junges Pärchen. Ich konnte im Spiegel sehen, wie die Frau in dem Moment auf mein Auto zeigt, beziehungsweise auf meinen dummen Sticker am Heck. Ich dachte erst: Was macht denn die da? Daraufhin haben beide angefangen, zu lachen.

​Man, das fand ich in dem Moment einfach total süß wenn ich ehrlich bin. Es hat mir selbst direkt gute Laune gemacht. Es ist irgendwie ein tolles Gefühl zu wissen, dass so eine kleine, banale Sache ausreicht, um andere zum lachen zu bringen.

​

Jop, das is alles was ich teilen wollte 💌

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u/DerKleineRudi00 — 23 days ago

What distance should I leave between the fill port of my reservoir and the radiator fans?

I can't do more than 32mm.. Do you guys think that's enough? I would like to fit in a thicker radiator but that would make it even worse..

u/DerKleineRudi00 — 25 days ago
▲ 2 r/Noctua

After three months, one of my new Noctua NF-A12x25 G2 fans started making rattling sounds. Can I get it replaced?

It suddenly started making these rattling noise. The sound is quiet on the video, but in reality it is really annoying. There is no dirt and nothing is blocking it. It even rattles like this when I hold it in my hand. No other fans are running. I was very careful when I mounted it. None of my other 10 Noctua fans have this problem. Has anyone else experienced this? The support hasnt answered yet

u/DerKleineRudi00 — 26 days ago

Why I love Catia V5 and hate fusion.

I have been using CATIA V5 (Dassault Systémes flagship) for quite a while now. Recently, I decided to step outside my professional bubble and give fusion a try just because it is free.

I have to admit that it is incredibly easy to learn. The UI looks good, and it feels modern. It lets you work a bit faster, when you want to build something quickly. But now, imagine a house that looks like a beautiful villa on the outside, but once you step further inside, you see that its moldy.

As an experienced CAD modeler, I quickly realized that you pay a massive price for the initial user friendliness.The moment I tried to apply proper parametric design methodologies, fusion fell apart. I really tried my best, but the sheer volume of errors I encountered was absolutely insane.

In CATIA, I am used to building really robust parameterized models where I can go back to the very first extrusion in the history, change dimensions, and watch the entire model update flawlessly without any errors. In fusion? My entire feature tree completely exploded. 30 errors were thrown at me at once.

​Fixing these cascading errors one by one in fusion is an incredibly tedious nightmare. It simply can't handle stuff like this. I tried everything, but I did not manage to make it work like in CATIA.

It simply lacks the mathematical stability I am used to. CATIA V5 does not punish you with a sea of warnings when you make something 5mm longer or bigger. It just does it's job.

The instability of Fusion destroys the entire workflow. When I am working with master geometries or use external references to other parts, this works like an absolute charm in CATIA. The links are bulletproof. When I attempted the exact same industry-standard workflows in Fusion, the links are incredibly fragile. The moment a parent geometry updates, the adaptivity fails, and of course, the entire tree explodes.

​Coming from CATIAs Generative Shape Design, Fusions handling of complex geometry felt underwhelming. It fundamentally struggles with stuff that is more complicated than rounding off a cube. It simply cannot calculate fillets that aren't perfectly straight or that are required to make 3d printed parts look smooth. If you want anything like G2 or even G3 continuity, you won't have fun with this software.

Then there is the bad performance. I run a high-end pc for a few grand, and Inventor did not run well. You can work on entire ships, aircraft, and cars when you use CATIA. It does not even get slow.

If you try to model parts of an assembly from the top down in Fusion it constantly throws error messages at you. CATIA was built from the ground up to handle this exact methodology flawlessly.

In comparison to Fusion, CATIA is simply an absolute beast. When you work with CATIA, you feel like you have a tool in your hands that can build everything you want. Yes, it does not look as good, but it just does it's job.

If you want to play around and design simple stuff, use Inventor. But if you want to build rockets, cars, and massive machines CATIA (or NX) is the only option. It is an absolute masterpiece of a program that never lets you down. CATIA sets the standards, and Fusion sadly does not even come close. It was very tedious to work with.

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u/DerKleineRudi00 — 26 days ago

Is this hard to model?

Im talking about something like this. It has multiple angles, even the flange at the top is turned a bit! The flange needs to be at the center

u/DerKleineRudi00 — 27 days ago

CATIA V5 is better in almost every aspect - here is why

I have been using CATIA V5 for quite a while now. Recently, I decided to step outside my professional bubble and give Autodesk Inventor a try for private projects.

I have to admit that it is incredibly easy to learn. The UI looks good, and it feels modern. It has functions that CATIA does not provide. It lets you work a bit faster, when you want to build something quickly. But now, imagine a house that looks like a beautiful villa on the outside, but once you step further inside, you see that its moldy.

As an experienced CAD modeler, I quickly realized that you pay a massive price for the initial user friendliness.The moment I tried to apply proper parametric design methodologies, Inventor fell apart. I really tried my best, but the sheer volume of errors I encountered was absolutely insane.

In CATIA, I am used to building really robust parameterized models where I can go back to the very first extrusion in the history, change dimensions, and watch the entire model update flawlessly without any errors. In Inventor? My entire feature tree completely exploded. 30 errors were thrown at me at once.

​Fixing these cascading errors one by one in Inventor is an incredibly tedious nightmare. It simply can't handle stuff like this. I tried everything, but I did not manage to make it work like in CATIA.

It simply lacks the mathematical stability I am used to. CATIA V5 does not punish you with a sea of yellow and red warnings when you make something 5mm longer or bigger. It just does it's job.

The instability of Inventor destroys the entire workflow. When I am working with master geometries or use external references to other parts, this works like an absolute charm in CATIA. The links are bulletproof. When I attempted the exact same industry-standard workflows in Inventor, it says "adaptive", but in reality, the links are incredibly fragile. The moment a parent geometry updates, the adaptivity fails, and of course, the entire tree explodes.

Even basic sketches don't work perfectly. Radiuses suddenly flip in the wrong direction, features lose their geometric references for apparently no reason, and I ended up spending half my time by fixing errors rather than actually engineering..

​Coming from CATIAs Generative Shape Design, Inventors handling of complex geometry felt underwhelming. It fundamentally struggles with stuff that is more complicated than rounding off a cube. It simply cannot calculate fillets that aren't perfectly straight or that are required to make 3d printed parts look smooth. If you want anything like G2 or even G3 continuity, you won't have fun with this software.

Then there is the bad performance. I run a high-end pc for a few grand, and Inventor did not run well and crashed sometimes. As soon as I opened assemblies, it felt slow. You can work on entire ships, aircraft, and cars when you use CATIA. It does not even get slow.

If you try to model parts of an assembly from the top down in Inventor it constantly throws error messages at you. CATIA was built from the ground up to handle this exact methodology flawlessly. Furthermore, some features in Inventor feel unnecessarily bloated and overcomplicated.

If you want to set up basic mechanical links, you have like a lot different methods to do this. Why would I need all of those settings when everything works with the few options CATIA provides?? Even these links caused a lot of errors.

In comparison to Inventor, CATIA is simply an absolute beast. When you work with CATIA, you feel like you have a tool in your hands that can build everything you want. Yes, it does not look as good, but it just does it's job.

If you want to play around and design simple stuff, use Inventor. But if you want to build rockets, cars, and massive machines CATIA (or NX) is the only option. It is an absolute masterpiece of a program that never lets you down. CATIA sets the standards, and Inventor sadly does not even come close. It was very tedious to work with. I won't use it again.

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u/DerKleineRudi00 — 1 month ago
▲ 7 r/Noctua+1 crossposts

Is a distance of 6 mm from a hexagonal grille OK for a NF-A14x25 G2?

I'm working on a high end custom water cooling project for over 10,000€, which includes custom made sheet metal. (The colours in the image come from CATIA. This is just to make it easier to see.)

I have around 6 mm clearance between a hexagonal grille and the fan, which is mounted in a pull configuration. I'm worried that this might cause turbulence and affect the sound quality of the build. Do you think 6 mm is enough distance? Does Nocuta provide any recommendations on this distance?

u/DerKleineRudi00 — 1 month ago

Hundebesitzer lassen ihre Hunde rückssichtslos alles zuscheißen!

Es ist Sommer, das Wetter ist gut, und man will sich mit seiner Lebensgefährtin einfach auf eine Bank an einem typischen Gassi-Geh-Schotterweg setzen, um entspannt einen Gurkensalat zu essen und etwas zu trinken. Das klingt zunächst machbar, aber leider ist es das dank einer speziellen, geistig schlicht gehaltenen Spezies nicht. Lasst es mir euch ganuer erklären:

​Ich packe die Getränke und den Salat aus, und da habe ich schon kurz einen schlechten Geruch in der Nase. Ihr wisst wegen dem Titel bestimmt schon ganz genau, wovon ich rede: Hundekot, der in der Sonne gart und seinen Geruch verströmt. Das ist natürlich super appetitlich, wenn man in Ruhe seinen Gurkensalat vertilgen will. Nach zwei weiteren Minuten wurde es dann wirklich unerträglich.

​Ich stehe also genervt auf, gucke, wo die Scheiße liegt und was seh ich 50cm neben der Bank im Gras? Zwei (!) RIESIGE, dampfende Haufen Hundescheiße. Nicht irgendwo im tiefen Unterholz, sondern direkt neben der Bank. Mein Verdacht: Da waren 2 Hundebesitzer am Werk.

​Natürlich schmeckt der Gurkensalat dann super! Wir durften unseren Kram wieder einpacken, weil es wirklich unerträglich war und mussten weiter ziehen.

Ich habe übrigens noch eine Geschichte auf Lager, wo ich in meiner Kindheit mit einem Freund im Freibad war und er sogar dort barfuß in Hundekot getreten ist. Ich habe ihn damals als 12 Jähriger ausgelacht. Ja, das war verdammt lustig damals, ich erinnere mich als wäre es gestern gewesen. Heute frage ich mich, wie das überhaupt möglich ist in einem Freibad?? Ich meine, was muss man für eine Art Mensch sein, um den Hundekot sogar im Freibad liegen zu lassen?

​Ich frage mich ernsthaft, welche Rädchen sich im Hirn solcher Hundehalter sich nicht drehen. Wie absolut rücksichtslos, egoistisch und asozial kann man eigentlich sein? Für sie existieren gesellschaftliche Regeln, Anstand oder einfach nur Verstand scheinbar nicht.

​Das ist die Fraktion von "Mein süßer Schatz darf sich frei entfalten und ich bin mir eh zu schön den Kot weg zu räumen". Nein, du egoistische Pasalake! ​Wenn du zu faul bist, die Scheie von deinem Köter aufzusammeln und in den nächsten Mülleimer zu werfen, dann schaff dir verdammt noch mal keinen Hund an! Manche müssen übrigens auf einmal rein zufällig den Baum hinter ihnen ganz genau inspizieren, wenn sie merken, dass ihr Hund gerade kotet. Dann können sie nämlich so tun, als hätten sie es nicht gesehen wenn ich vorbei gehe. Alles schon erlebt. Und wenn man kritisiert, dann ist man natürlich automatisch Hundehasser und sonst noch alles mögliche.

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u/DerKleineRudi00 — 1 month ago

Wahnsinnige Autofahrer..

Servus, ich wollte mit euch mal was teilen, das mir jetzt schon öfters passiert ist.

Heute habe ich mal wieder eine kleine Ausfahrt gemacht. Vor mir war jemand, der extrem langsam fuhr, wie es leider öfters vorkommt. Ein klassischer Schleicher, der auf der bestens ausgebauten Landstraße bei strahlenden Sonnenschein nur im Stande dazu ist 70 statt 100 zu fahren, beim Ortsschild jedoch vergisst zu bremsen und innerorts auch mit 70 durchfährt. Also quasi immer 70, egal ob außerorts oder innerorts. "Universal Geschwindigkeit" dachte er sich wahrscheinlich. Im Rückspiegel sah ich, dass ich nicht der Einzige bin der hinter ihm hinterher kriecht. Locker 10 Autos waren hinter mir.

Und jetzt Freunde, jetzt kommt der Höhepunkt, der den Fass den Boden ausschlägt:

Ich habe dann zum Überholen angesetzt, hab also 2 Gänge runter geschalten und wollte meine 160ps nutzen. Ich hab dann gemerkt, dass ich irgendwie langsam an ihm vorbei komme, obwohl ich den Hahn doch ordentlich aufgemacht hab. Das heißt der Typ ist aufeinmal auf die Idee gekommen doch selbst vollgas zu geben während ich ihn überholen wollte?? Zumindest fühlte sich das so an, da der Überholvorgang ewig dauerte. Ihr könnt euch vorstellen, was dann auf meinem Tacho stand, irgendwann hat seine Kiste anscheinend nicht mehr so gut beschleunigt wie meine.

Vorher ist er also locker 5 Minuten die ganze Zeit mit 70 dahingefahren, aber wenn ich überholen will gibt er auf einmal vollgas? Da musste ich mich dann so aufregen, wie man nur so ein **** sein kann.

Was stimmt mit manchen Autofahrern nicht? Fühlen die sich persönlich angegriffen, wenn man sie überholen will? Ich fordere den sofortigen Führerscheinentzug für den Typen!!

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u/DerKleineRudi00 — 1 month ago