What's the technical, historical difference between an American diner and an old-fashioned coffee shop? How did coffee shops develop?

So I want to start by disclaiming that by coffee shop, I don't mean the places that have proliferated since the 1970s where a barista makes espresso behind a counter. I mean the old-school diner-like establishments that historically called themselves coffee shops or cafes. Here's an example.

So I know diners developed on the east coast, and for most of the 20th century the term diner referred to prefabricated dining cars like you see in New Jersey. At roughly the same time though, you get establishments that, like diners, have counter stools, booths, and serve coffee along with short order food like burgers and pancakes.

For most of the last century, most people on both coasts understood that coffee shops and diners were not the same thing. The structure of the building was seemingly the primary deciding factor. Even today, i have run into many folks who grew up on the east coast who insist that a coffee shop is not a diner.

The history of the diner is fairly well-established, but I can find almost no historical information on where coffee shops as we know them today came from. Why did coffee shops pop up in places like Chicago and Los Angeles starting in the 1920s (e.g. Lou Mitchell's, The Pantry)? Why did they take the physical form that they did? What would have made them different from other restaurants at the time? And at what point did people stop taking the difference between diners and coffee shops so seriously and start conflating the two?

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u/Easy_Potential2882 — 9 days ago

Went to the only Basque-American restaurant in LA County—Glendora Continental

I'm a big Basque food fan, been to every spot in Bakersfield (except Benji's) plus a few in Nevada. Was craving the Basque dining experience, and happened to be sort of near Glendora. The place has great vibes but was pretty empty. Overheard the manager say they were getting killed by Marie Callendar's, not a great sign for business, though the bar area had some regulars hanging out. They have a whole menu of steakhouse type things with a French influence. The early bird special gets you a prime rib dinner for like, $25 dollars (yes, a two and a five). I got the Basque set up though, a multi-course meal for $48. Not as luxe as the setups you get in Bakersfield, I'd say it's more Basque in spirit than substance, per se. Came with soup or salad (i went with the soup du jour, navy bean, actually pretty good), pickled tongue (a bit tough compared to say, Wool Growers famous pickled tongue), small rack of lamb (lamb itself wad tender and juicy, the sides were pretty bland) and chocolate mousse (actually quite good). Tried to order a picon punch, but they were out of amer picon, so i settled for some wine. I don't think it compares to Basque joints up north, but it will satisfy any nostalgic longings for sheepherder's grub, and has a classic, almost diner-like atmosphere that's pretty chill if you can get over the quietude of the dining room.

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 29 days ago

Pho Special #1 from Pho 87

Probably the best pho around that isn't in the SGV or OC. Excellent flavor, great hole in the wall vibes, love it here

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 1 month ago

Mule Burrito at Gilbert's El Indio

Great big cheesy burrito, good green sauce on it. Their chips are fried to order, super crispy and good, and they come with pickled carrots along with salsa. Margaritas are nice and well-balanced. Just a great little neighborhood Mexican spot in Santa Monica run by some very nice people. Their kitchen got raided by ICE a while back, go show em some love.

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 2 months ago

Tuna melt at Mickey Fine Pharmacy

Lunch counter coffee shop inside a pharmacy from the 60s in Beverly Hills. Their tuna melt is one of the best in town, nice and meaty, good flavor, nice melty cheese permeates the meat. Their wedge fries also pretty good, and the milkshake is top notch—not too thin, not too thick, just right. Super nice folks too, the owner came by and talked to me for a bit, and hooked me up with a small plate of free onion rings.

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 2 months ago

Chili dogs from Carney's in West Hollywood

Some really excellent dogs. Chili was fine, not too spicy, not too gloopy. Very impressed by the snap of the wieners though, you could practically hear it from the next table over. I don't think any hot dog in the city has such a forceful snap. Good flavor there too. Love that they use American cheese slices instead of dried out pre-shredded cheese. The tomato thing strikes me as a bit odd. It cuts through the chili, sure, but if its a really good chili you wouldn't want to cut through it.

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 2 months ago

Pad kee mao at The Roost

A little dive bar in Atwater that also serves Thai food. The cook comes at night, but during the day the owner will happily cook for you too. She'll ask if you want it "Thai spicy," which is indeed very spicy, but I love it. I was the only one there around noon and the owner could not have been friendlier. Definitely check it out if you haven't been! Cash only for drinks, but they take card for food.

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 2 months ago

El Taurino, Pico-Union

A lively little place founded by the brother of the guy who founded King Taco. Lots of stuff here, including the red and green salsas, are provided by King Taco. My friend even ordered a tamal and it came in a King Taco branded wrapper. But the stuff you can't find at King Taco is actually worth a stop for. The goat barbacoa is juicy and tender, nothing too crazy but it has a nice flavor that really lets the goat speak. I absolutely loved the costillas rancheras tho, big meaty slabs of rib meat with caramelized onions. The King Taco red sauce surprisingly really brings out the flavor of the ribs, they blend together beautifully. The bullfighting theme of the restaurant is also pretty captivating, especially since goat seems to be the real star of the show.

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 2 months ago

Sky's Gourmet Tacos in Mid-City is closing on August 15th

Get 'em while you can! Soul food style tacos with Cajun seasoning, i got (from left to right) their famous shrimp taco, the crawfish taco (a whopping $14! But the other tacos are less expensive) and the potato & cheese taco. All in all very good, big and filling, big on flavor. When these came out in 1992 I'm sure it blew people's minds. They're transitioning to catering only after the 15th.

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 2 months ago

Smoked milk paleta from Mateo's on Pico

Great little treat for a hot day. Usually get the mango here but this had a really interesting flavor, the aroma of mesquite kind of lingers in your sinuses.

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 3 months ago

Extra seats at the Baked Potato?

Going to see a show at The Baked Potato, I have tickets but a friend wants to join. Problem is the show is sold out. Anybody have any luck pleading with the door guy? If there's a no show can my buddy get a seat? Can he get a patio seat and get "lost" looking for the bathroom?

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u/Easy_Potential2882 — 3 months ago

Dear John's

Darkest restaurant in town! A little overpriced for what it is—chicken parm was a little tough, bread was a little dry, the Caesar salad was perfect though—;ut I'd rather have it around than not at all, plus it's a fun experience. Great martinis too.

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 3 months ago

Cheeseburger at the Bun 'n Burger

Not a bad deal for a diner burger. $11 for a burger with fries, $12 with cheese. Waitress successfully upsold me on bacon, which doesnt add too much. Cool space from the 1940s too. Wish they were open at night so I could see that neon sign all lit up.

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 3 months ago
▲ 635 r/doughboys+1 crossposts

Happy 4th of July! Here's a tribute to hot dogs I have eaten in Los Angeles!

  1. Dodger Dog at Dodger Stadium

  2. Bacon-wrapped Street Dogs at the Hollywood Palladium

  3. The Combo at Marty's Hamburger Stand, West LA

  4. Chili dog at Chroni's, East LA

  5. Chili dog at Cupid's, Winnetka

  6. Chili Pup at Tail o' the Pup, West Hollywood

  7. Shackburger at The Shack, Playa Del Rey

  8. Oki-Dog, Fairfax

  9. Bierstein Soup at the Red Lion Tavern, Silver Lake

  10. Chili dog at Pink's, Hollywood

  11. Free hot dogs at Godmother's Saloon, San Pedro

  12. Hot Dog on a Stick, Santa Monica

  13. Chili Dog at Earle's on Crenshaw

  14. Sosees Bandari at Attari Sandwich Shop, Westwood

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 3 months ago

Milanesa de Res sandwich & Empanadas at Tito's Market

Argentinian deli/market in El Monte with really good sandwiches and empanadas. The fried chicken is also supposed to be really good but I didnt try that. Plus they have everything you could need to make Argentine BBQ! Get your sandwich with the peppers 🌶

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 4 months ago

Big Fat Burgers in Reseda

Checked this place out when I heard they were having financial troubles, wanted to come support. Fantastic SoCal burger shack vibes. Wasn't necessarily expecting anything special with the burger, but it had this excellent crust on the patties that was so crispy. Sort of smashburger reminiscent, but the patties themselves were or comparable thickness to In n Out patties. The burger as a whole was a little bland, but they had seasoning salt and Tapatio to improve things a bit. Worth it for that crust.

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 4 months ago
▲ 2 r/CRedit

Owed money without realizing, now it's passed to a debt collector

I got into an accident with a rental car, went through insurance. I have a $500 deductible, so I figured my insurance (Geico) would have paid the whole thing to Enterprise then bill me. Never got that bill and forgot about it. It's a little over a year later and I got an email from a debt collector that Enterprise was looking for me to pay the $500 and passed it to the debt collector. Enterprise sent me an email that I legitimately just didn't notice at the time I guess, but I got no other communication from them at all besides that one email. Am I screwed? What do I do here? Is it worse for me to pay the debt collector?

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u/Easy_Potential2882 — 4 months ago

The Godfather at Cricca's in Woodland Hills

Heard a lot of good things about this place from locals. The sandwiches are really, really big, and they have this crusty bread that's pretty good. But the ingredients are standard boar's head, and the sandwich was $20. To be fair, one half was more than enough for one sitting, so it is basically two meals altogether. Plus I imagine the residents of Woodland Hills probably don't flinch at the price. Wouldn't go out of my way for it but a solid spot for locals.

u/Easy_Potential2882 — 4 months ago