u/El_t1to

Hi,

I wonder if you see this dynamic. Our kids mainly our 15 year old, but also the one with 19, both male, would have talks with their mother, only one on one when noone else is close. They mainly don't speak unless is to ask for things.

In these talks, they show vulnerability that they usually mask, and they talk about reasons for their avoidance that justify it by external causes, or people, and they express regret and make promises, in exchange for something they want.

Mom manifests what they want but the promises are never never fulfilled, and the reasons only fit a very small punctual thing of what they do.

This confused me until I saw a pattern, this happens when they have an appointment the next day that could mean a big change. Then this excuses them to go to the appointment, and mom goes to the appointment saying they had a breakthrough and the kid is going to get better because he said so.

I see that they repeat the promises that they heard doctors or us saying what would be positive. But once the event avoided is in the past, they act as if the talk never happened. Or repeat reasons that adults ask them "Is someone bulling you at school?" (Oh, If someone was, then my behavior would be justified, I'm gonna say yes).

This that looks like manipulation, I think is an instinctive defensive response, their brains finding the strategy that works to avoid danger.

Those talks used to give me hope, and I believe mom saying those were the real kids without masking, or without turning to conflict... Until I saw the patern.

Does this happen to you?

I've been told this belongs here:
(Coming from PDA: PAthological Demand Avoidance, a profile in autism)
I had a very sad argument with their mother yesterday, it took away any energy I had.

Kids are now at home 24/7, it takes a lot of insistance to get them to shower once a week, and that's when they change clothes, but we tell them everyday. No going out for a walk, not doing any house chore, just lying there and asking for food/water to be delivered urgently when they want it.

I'm their step-father. I've been 12 years in the picture. I don't feel capable of having a strong authority, now at all. At the begining I could do a bit of acting, as a father that won't take a no for an answer, but that's not who I am, and it never worked with these kids. Also, that put their mother in defense mode, so she would say the oposite to the kids.

For example, we were going out and S19 went into s15's room, so s15 panicked thinking he would break or touch or steal something. That sabotaged the plan of going out, of course. Then she was asking S19 to get out of the room, and he not moving and taking it as a joke. I came, and said only "You, out!". Immediatelly, she changed tune, started sayind " s19 goes into his room very seldomly, and it's because he loves his brother...".

Those scennes, my own lack of character, and the kids hearing multiples times things like "I don't give a XXX what (ME) said" or " If there was a real man in the house, this wouldn't happen"... Made that I'm a joke for the kids, they can react if they see me very angry, but any other day, they know I don't have any authority there. At all.

Fast-forward 10 years, and yesterday she told me she has a plan, that if I ask them things in a certain way, they will start with auto-care, and responsibility. I told her I can't do things like that when I don't believe they'll work (because they haven't worked the previous 1000 times), and that I need to save my energy because I have barely the minimum to wake up and go to work. (I've been the only one working all these years). She asked me if it wasn't more comfortable to think like that. (this time she asked, but hundreds of times she's said that what I do is to make myself more comfortable). I told her that hurt me... and things heated, and I said "can't you think of a more comfortable alternative life for me?"

That's a thing that I can never say out loud, and I regret it. But it's the truth of everyday, if I was selfish, and wanted to be comfortable, I would have left many years ago. These kids have a biological father. On top of all, I was "friend-zoned" as soon as we moved in together. I stay and I do my best. I often want to be dead (they, maybe more often). Telling me I do things out of selfishness negates the last 12 years of sacrifice, and it hurts a lot.

The thing is, I firmly believe we can't keep going in circles. We can't think one day the kids will obey and take care of themselves if we ask in the right way. I think only meds or a intensive therapy can turn things around for them. Or that they somehow reach a level of maturity that makes them want to do things in a different way.

It is true that we haven't got much success with psychiatrist, psychologist, and social services. But she's now convinced that as they don't help, we have to do our best to take them out of our lives (lie, pretend, hide...). This takes the hope out of me.

In short, I don't feel capable of doing what she asks of me (give small ultimatums to the kids) and I don't think it will help at all. And she doesn't want to do what I think is our only chance of improvement: getting proffesional help (keep looking and knocking on doors).

They way she took it was that I don't think the kids are capable of anything, and she added, then we might as well drink poison the 3 of us and leave you be.

She sent me the info about PDA 6 years ago (it's not that I came with a crazy theory), and since then we've been seeing the kids more and more act on that "script" fit the descriptions to the letter. But I see she doesn't fully accept it, and keeps thinking things are going to change with a seroius talk, or more rigid orders.

What's my question here? I'm not sure, I'm at my witt's end. Maybe what would you do in my situation? Should I play along? Should I say nothing when they don't go to doctors' appointments and she makes excuses for them instead of telling them it is a syntom? Or when she tells them what to say so they (the proffesionals) would leave us alone?

Thanks, I'm very sorry for the long post.

I had a very sad argument with their mother yesterday, it took away any energy I had.

Kids are now at home 24/7, it takes a lot of insistance to get them to shower once a week, and that's when they change clothes, but we tell them everyday. No going out for a walk, not doing any house chore, just lying there and asking for food/water to be delivered urgently when they want it.

I'm their step-father. I've been 12 years in the picture. I don't feel capable of having a strong authority, now at all. At the begining I could do a bit of acting, as a father that won't take a no for an answer, but that's not who I am, and it never worked with these kids. Also, that put their mother in defense mode, so she would say the oposite to the kids.

For example, we were going out and S19 went into s15's room, so s15 panicked thinking he would break or touch or steal something. That sabotaged the plan of going out, of course. Then she was asking S19 to get out of the room, and he not moving and taking it as a joke. I came, and said only "You, out!". Immediatelly, she changed tune, started sayind " s19 goes into his room very seldomly, and it's because he loves his brother...".

Those scennes, my own lack of character, and the kids hearing multiples times things like "I don't give a XXX what (ME) said" or " If there was a real man in the house, this wouldn't happen"... Made that I'm a joke for the kids, they can react if they see me very angry, but any other day, they know I don't have any authority there. At all.

Fast-forward 10 years, and yesterday she told me she has a plan, and that if I ask them things in a certain way, they will start with auto-care, and responsibility. I told her I can't do things like that when I don't believe they'll work, and that I need to save my anergy because I have barely the minimum to wake up and go to work. (I've been the only one working all these years). She asked me if it wasn't more comfortable to think like that. (this time she asked, but hundreds of times she's said that what I do is to make myself more comfortable). I told her that hurt me... and things heated, and I said "can't you think of a more comfortable alternative life for me?"

That's a thing that I can never say out loud, and I regret it. But it's the truth of everyday, if I was selfish, and wanted to be comfortable, I would have left many years ago. These kids have a biological father. On top of all, I was "friend-zoned" as soon as we moved in together. I stay and I do my best. I often want to be dead (they, maybe more often).

The thing is, I firmly believe we can't go in circles for even more years. We can't think one day the kids will obey and take care of themselves if we ask in the right way. I think only meds or a intensive therapy can turn things around for them. Or that they somehow reach a level of maturity that makes them want to do things in a different way.

It is true that we haven't got much success with psychiatrist, psychologist, and social services. But she's now convinced that as they don't help, we have to do our best to take them out of our lives. This takes the hope out of me.

In short, I don't feel capable of doing what she asks of me (give ultimatums to the kids) and I don't think it will help at all. And she doesn't want to do what I think is our only chance of improvement: getting proffesional help (keep looking and knocking on doors).

They way she took it was that I don't think the kids are capable of anything, and she added, then we might as well drink poison the 3 of us and leave you be.

She sent me the info about PDA 6 years ago, and since then we've been seeing the kids more and more act on that "script" fit the descriptions to the letter. But I see she doesn't fully accept it, and keeps thinking things are going to change with a seroius talk, or more rigid orders.

What's my question here? I'm not sure, I'm at my witt's end. Maybe what would you do in my situation? Should I play along? Should I say nothing when they don't go to doctors' appointments and she makes excuses for them instead of telling them it is a syntom? Or when she tells them what to say so they (the proffesionals) would leave us alone?

Thanks, I'm very sorry for the long post.

https://preview.redd.it/xugopqaogxxg1.jpg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24c3a3517914d4c716711e7abc44ca37e50424d0

You all know the song, if you don't have it in your mind, Anghkooey it. The cast are very funny people, I'm sure they'd had a blast boasting some Karaoke customized lyrics.