u/FreeToSeeTheTeuth

Hi!

Just wondering what the differences are in the countries and how much people are able to save and how the economies are doing.

Ive gotten a lot of flack for my lived experiences and what reality Ive seen. Just seeing if its overall correct or I lived in a bubble.

Thanks!

Yeah according to this sub if you have a bad time in a country its your fault and you are the problem.

Very sad my last post about my personal experience, people claim I lie and its my fault. What I say in my experience is what I have witnessed with my own eyes and hanging out with people and discussing at length these same topics. But its not real and never happened to me or any others and we are all lying.

For instance, Swedes are financially less well off than most Americans. This is true. What people refuse to understand and believe is that people DO take loans for vacation all the time. People DO not get paid anywhere close to American salaries. People save very little a month and its a thing to where the last week before pay day everyone is penny punching. Not literally all 10 million people but a large majority.

People borrow money from parents and family to buy homes and do things so this money isnt accounted for on personal debts with banks and other institutions....its through family!!....you will NEVER see this on statistics!!!! But we dont know what we are talking about.

Just frustrating that you struggle for years and get mentally destroyed by the terrible job market (that doesn't exist according to some people here) and yet when you try to share your experience or find others who have been or is in a similar situation you get based and told you're a liar. Sucks. And Yes I do speak Swedish!!!!! People automatically assume you didnt try hard enough and thats why you didnt get a job.

I dare anyone to move to Sweden or Europe right now and try to get a job for a year and come back to this post and share your experience 🙏🏻👍🏼

And mods remove posts like mine so it creates Echo Chambers of positivitey. These stories are helpful to people who are doing research if they are thinking about relocating. 🤷🏼‍♂️👍🏼

Disclaimer: I wish I read posts like mine before moving and had the ability to interact with many who currently feel the way I did or have gone through similar situations. These posts are only to help others in their journey and make them feel less alone 🙏🏻

Maybe you've seen a previous post of mine on this group or others, maybe you haven't. Either way, here is my story.

This is purely about jobs and economy related. I have other posts in other subreddits detailing other issues I had while I lived there.

A little background; I met my now wife about a decade ago when I lived in the US and she was visiting. Long story short, I moved to her to her home country, Sweden. We are in our 30s. I have no degree and have worked my way up and am in a mid career position and have been for awhile now, making a decent living in the same type of industry and role prior to moving.

I gave up my life in SoCal and moved to Sweden. Gave up my job in search of something new with my wife and to experience Europe and Sweden! exciting!....Exciting it was!!

We lived outside a major city, not a village or small town, compared to Swedish standards it was a decent sized city. From when I landed I hit the ground running trying to get a job locally and was lucky and found a local job in a office role 4 months after moving in 2021 (Rare to get a job this fast, I was lucky!). The job was sort of high stress and was the work of at least 2 people and the pay of 0.5 people. Mind you, I was used to over 100k plus bonuses and other job perks (I was fortunate), So, this annoyed me a bit but I put my head down and dealt with it for years. When in Rome, Right?

During these years of me working it was also hard to save a good amount of money as things are expensive compared to salaries and you see everyone taking loans for vacations just so they can use their vacation time and afford to go somewhere. Most people look well off but most are dead broke or take loans or borrow from family. Very uncommon for Swedes to have liquid cash or cash savings. There is really no real way to gain personal wealth like you can in the US, and its not like I was spending all of my money on dumb stuff. It was just not stretching far. Thankfully we had a dual income household as most families are in Sweden and need to be.

I digress. Well....... 4 years went by and during this time I was applying for other roles within the company and outside the company all over Sweden. I recently counted and I was nearing 1,900 applications during this time period. Yes, 1,900!!

I never received another offer. Over a year ago I was forced out of the company, was never given a reason just told to sign what is called a "Mutual separation agreement" Its fully legal and the union I was in couldn't help me and they said they deal with these agreements all the time. My wife never heard of this and we spent that week researching and calling relatives to see if this is a thing. It was. So, even if you are in a union you are not safe!! Essentially, the company wants you gone for some reason and you need to negotiate your severance package. and if you dont sign it, you can go back to work, but they can make your life hell until you quit or wait for you to slip up and let you go. Mind you I never received a written warning, verbal warning and I even asked my mangers at the yearly review if my job was in jeopardy (paranoid American come review time) they told me "No". Then 3 weeks later im presented with this. This is where the worst and best year of my life started.

The day of my lay off I looked at my wife and said "Thats it, ill never find another job". She said "nah you'll get something, its not like that". In my head I was confused.....I have been trying for YEARS and not one offer...oh yeah, I knew It was all over!.

During this same time my wifes company tells her they are closing down her office. I shit you not! a WEEK later she signs to a new company in the same area for more money. Im happy for her but ive been trying to clean toilets and cant even get that. I think to myself, "AM I BROKEN!?"......

I was laid off for over a year and my E-mail was nothing but rejections for work I was qualified for, over qualified for and under qualified for. Denied by McDonalds and cleaning cervices. I couldn't get a job CLEANING SHIT!. I held out for a year plugging away, pushing on. That messes with you mentally getting thousands of rejections. I was mentally destroyed! One day I told my wife, I need to go back to the US to keep myself relevant and need to go where the work is. I had 0 plan! All I knew was in the US I have created the life I wanted before and I have ambition so ill do it again, I NEEDED to!!!!

A few days before I got on the plane I changed my LinkedIn location to where I would be staying. Instantly, my phone was ringing and I was getting interviews directly. I signed an offer a week after landing and have since been working! I was mentally destroyed!!! "For 5 years not one reach out on LinkedIn and barley any interviews and now I have a job making base 3x what I did in Sweden and companies want me and IM VALUED!?" I was a mess...I was happy and excited but couldn't help but feel like "WOW, I wasted a year...maybe more...". I still cant wrap my head around all of the Swedes and Immigrants I know and have met that have been out of work for 1 yr and some 3 years and the jobs pay peanuts for the work they do and the job trajectory is so limited and small its depressing. Yet I'm back in the US for a WEEK and get a job and the future here work wise is INSANE, SO MUCH OPPORTUNITY.

It was an experience is all. I learned a lot and now my wife is in process to get her Green Card and both of us are excited and ready for a real chance at a future!

To whoever needs to hear this. LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!!!! If you relate to any of this, I commiserate with you! Stay Strong!!! there is hope!

Edit: först och främst, JA, jag pratar Svenska nästan flytande. I posted elsewhere and have gotten a bunch of push back on this. after all its my experience and many others who I have spoken with and gotten to know closely. so its not just a me issue. its sad because of all the people who share the same experience as me get called liars or rage baiting or bots.

I wish I read posts like mine before moving and had the ability to interact with many who currently feel the way I did or have gone through similar situations. These posts are only to help others in their journey and make them feel less alone 🙏🏻

Yeah. That was me too. Struggled for years and applied for over 1,900 jobs and not one offer. Not even McDonalds or cleaning companies.

Recently moved back to the US and got a job within one week. If you are second guessing and or struggling in Swedens job market, LISTEN to your gut and get out! its close to a sinking ship!!!

There is hope out there and you are not alone!!!

How long have you been unemployed and how many jobs have you applied for?

I see many here hate on the US or just think life is way better somewhere else.

Let me share my experience, knowledge and what I went through and seen first hand. Living in Europe is not what it seems. This might be a bit long.

If interested in my story a bit deeper check my post history.

Uncomfortable things to start with here;

- Most Swedes and Europeans are quietly poor. Most people in Sweden earn less than 40k USD a year. When I say my salary of 31k SEK a month before tax most swedes say "thats a great salary" but it really isnt...to me and what I am used to. 31k SEK after tax, I was taking home 24k SEK which is around 2,300 - 2,400 USD. people working 10-15-20-30 years still make this amount. NURSES make this!!!!. It is extremely hard to get very good paying roles as an immigrant. So you will not make good money in Sweden or most of Europe and that means you wont travel as much as you think or want to and maybe you would love a house one day right? Welp, in Sweden houses in DESIRABLE areas closer to job opportunities to where your commute wont be an hour long are 600k -1.2mil USD. For a basic 2 bedroom home with little to no yard. Thats why most live in apartments. and they still have to pay avgift of 500 to 700 USD a month forever, on top of your loan and utilities. To me, I would rather buy a home with land in the US and make more money with way better job opportunities...but thats me....the ROI isnt there....

-Gangs!!! Gangs recruit kids, literal 12 yr olds for contract killing and bombings. In the place I lived there were 5 bombings within a 2 mile radius the 5 years I lived there. Yes. BOMBINGS. Thats stuff that happens in the 3rd world....nope happens all the time in Sweden!

- Relaxed laws against violence. a friend lived in a place outside Gothenburg and a lady walking her dog at 5pm in the winter was stabbed on a livestream just for fun. The kid was 14 and was let out of jail. killers get 10yrs in prison or they are rehabbed and let out after 5. gang members and rapists get no time or 2 years in jail and get let out. Yet you need to buy booze at one store only during certain times of the day. make it make sense.

- Gas, its about 2 dollars more a gallon in Sweden than it is in the US. And no, Swedes and Europeans drive a lot too...unless you live downtown in a major city......which is terribly expensive.

- People are very awkward and have a hard time expressing themselves it seems. Unless drunk. I was invited to an after work at my job and we all had a great time, as the booze started sliding down their throats they talked and laughed and it was great. This was a Friday night. Come Monday morning back into the office I walked in happy and excited I made connections. I said god morgon to everyone and it was like Friday night never happened, people didn't say a word and most of these people I never talked to again, even in the office. It was like I had to re start all over again. I was terribly confused that, we broke the ice already, so why are we not continuing it?. this type of behavior and socializing is just the way it is and it can be very isolating and downright oppressive to a certain degree. I couldn't deal with that.

- If you dont follow the herd you are an outcast and a black sheep. Period. You MUST agree with consensus, if not you have a target on you forever.

- From my experience the way of communicating is very oppressed, peoples families and even friends have a hard time saying harsh truths or being blunt with each other. I couldn't count how many times I know and hear people not saying what they think in fear of upsetting the family dynamic or consensus driven group. its like REALLY? No wonder most things privately and in society get swept under the rug and everyone acts like it doesn't exist. Its infuriating. No wonder its one of the most secretly racist countries I have ever been to! Ive attended weddings of swedes and I WAS the only immigrant! No one had immigrant friends, other than me!

- The unemployment is well over 10%. There are no jobs. Swedes dont want immigrants taking their jobs and if your name isnt Swedified, you are SCREWED! Most immigrants end up cleaning or warehouse work even if they have high qualifications. Sweden doesnt give a damn about your past. Most Swedes and immigrants cant find work for over a year or even 3 years. I tried for a year to get a job cleaning poop and never got anything. (See my post history for my story).

- No matter how many clubs you join to make friends, be prepared for no one to put in effort. I had hobbies and many people I would do things with but they would always say lets hangout outside of the hobbies and when it would come down to it no one would make any effort at all. This is important if you want to actually live and stay in whatever country you immigrate to. Dont under estimate it.

- Racism and prejudiced...Yup it exists and yup its alive and well and probably worse than you've experienced in the US!.

- ICE exists in Sweden (Säpo) and in Europe as well, they send babies home to their countries and lock people up...so, its not just the US enforcing IMMIGRATION LAWS. No one likes illegal immigrants or any who destroys their society.

- People are NOT as LGBQTIJDKKD(R)¤) friendly as you think. Hate still exists and its alive and well. Just because some article said Sweden and Europe is progressive, doesn't mean they accept it all.

-Unions, Sure on paper they are good. But you run into many lazy people who dont do anything and have worked the same position for 30 years and still dont know anything or they refuse to work. They cant be fired easily and most are afraid to fire natives because its hard to do. this leads to people not really being very entrepreneurial and not much "pep in the step" and positive attitudes. go to a shop or store and the cashier is stone faced not nice and never says hi or goodbye, why should they? they cant be fired, they do their jobs?. this limits peoples ambition and drive. IMHO. To me its refreshing coming to the US people are happy and positive and are willing to help. Ive seen so many times people stare at others struggling and no one helps and in the US 10 people would offer a helping hand. Its just a different "you can achieve anything" attitude.

- Healthcare. Yeah..I paid 35% taxes on my income and the care you get is you get sent home and you need to schedule 10 appointments and each time its a new doctor and you need to re explain yourself over and over. You get annoyed and buy private insurance where you actually get help. So why does the Gov take 35% forcefully from me when I need to go private anyway because the public care sucks so bad? make it make sense!!! My wife was calling the hospital for a woman issue and they laughed at her over the phone. She only goes private now...its a joke. In the US you can dictate what plans you get and how much money YOU feel comfortable investing in your Healthcare.

I could go on and on and I may add some stuff as well. But the grass is NOT always greener!!!!! The US has issues but it gives many opportunities most other countries dont even have!!!

Thanks for reading and check my profile for other in depth posts about jobs and my story on why I had to move back to the US.

Maybe you've seen a previous post of mine on this group or others, maybe you haven't. Either way, here is my story. My story is my experience and in some ways I am very lucky, I know.

This is purely about jobs and economy related. I will have other posts in this and other subreddits detailing other issues I had while I lived there.

A little background; I met my now wife about a decade ago when I lived in the US and she was visiting. Long story short, I moved to her to her home country, Sweden. We are in our 30s. I have no degree and have worked my way up and am in a mid career position and have been for awhile now, making a decent living in the same type of industry and role prior to moving.

I gave up my life in SoCal and moved to Sweden. Gave up my job in search of something new with my wife and to experience Europe and Sweden! exciting!....Exciting it was!!

We lived outside a major city, not a village or small town, compared to Swedish standards it was a decent sized city. From when I landed I hit the ground running trying to get a job locally and was lucky and found a local job in a office role 4 months after moving in 2021 (Rare to get a job this fast, I was lucky!). The job was sort of high stress and was the work of at least 2 people and the pay of 0.5 people. Mind you, I was used to over 100k plus bonuses and other job perks (I was fortunate), So, this annoyed me a bit but I put my head down and dealt with it for years. When in Rome, Right?

During these years of me working it was also hard to save a good amount of money as things are expensive compared to salaries and you see everyone taking loans for vacations just so they can use their vacation time and afford to go somewhere. Most people look well off but most are dead broke or take loans or borrow from family. Very uncommon for Swedes to have liquid cash or cash savings. There is really no real way to gain personal wealth like you can in the US, and its not like I was spending all of my money on dumb stuff. It was just not stretching far. Thankfully we had a dual income household as most families are in Sweden and need to be.

I digress. Well....... 4 years went by and during this time I was applying for other roles within the company and outside the company all over Sweden. I recently counted and I was nearing 1,900 applications during this time period. Yes, 1,900!!

I never received another offer. Over a year ago I was forced out of the company, was never given a reason just told to sign what is called a "Mutual separation agreement" Its fully legal and the union I was in couldn't help me and they said they deal with these agreements all the time. My wife never heard of this and we spent that week researching and calling relatives to see if this is a thing. It was. So, even if you are in a union you are not safe!! Essentially, the company wants you gone for some reason and you need to negotiate your severance package. and if you dont sign it, you can go back to work, but they can make your life hell until you quit or wait for you to slip up and let you go. Mind you I never received a written warning, verbal warning and I even asked my mangers at the yearly review if my job was in jeopardy (paranoid American come review time) they told me "No". Then 3 weeks later im presented with this. This is where the worst and best year of my life started.

The day of my lay off I looked at my wife and said "Thats it, ill never find another job". She said "nah you'll get something, its not like that". In my head I was confused.....I have been trying for YEARS and not one offer...oh yeah, I knew It was all over!.

During this same time my wifes company tells her they are closing down her office. I shit you not! a WEEK later she signs to a new company in the same area for more money. Im happy for her but ive been trying to clean toilets and cant even get that. I think to myself, "AM I BROKEN!?"......

I was laid off for over a year and my E-mail was nothing but rejections for work I was qualified for, over qualified for and under qualified for. Denied by McDonalds and cleaning cervices. I couldn't get a job CLEANING SHIT!. I held out for a year plugging away, pushing on. That messes with you mentally getting thousands of rejections. I was mentally destroyed! One day I told my wife, I need to go back to the US to keep myself relevant and need to go where the work is. I had 0 plan! All I knew was in the US I have created the life I wanted before and I have ambition so ill do it again, I NEEDED to!!!!

A few days before I got on the plane I changed my LinkedIn location to where I would be staying. Instantly, my phone was ringing and I was getting interviews directly. I signed an offer a week after landing and have since been working! I was mentally destroyed!!! "For 5 years not one reach out on LinkedIn and barley any interviews and now I have a job making base 3x what I did in Sweden and companies want me and IM VALUED!?" I was a mess...I was happy and excited but couldn't help but feel like "WOW, I wasted a year...maybe more...". I still cant wrap my head around all of the Swedes and Immigrants I know and have met that have been out of work for 1 yr and some 3 years and the jobs pay peanuts for the work they do and the job trajectory is so limited and small its depressing. Yet I'm back in the US for a WEEK and get a job and the future here work wise is INSANE, SO MUCH OPPORTUNITY.

It was an experience is all. I learned a lot and now my wife is in process to get her Green Card and both of us are excited and ready for a real chance at a future!

To whoever needs to hear this. LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!!!! If you relate to any of this, I commiserate with you! Stay Strong!!! there is hope!

och JA! jag pratar Svenska!!

This got a lot of hate on r/expats and moddies shut it down too quick for some odd reason.

Time for positivitey!

Anyone else have a way better QOL, income, job market opportunities and just a feeling of pure relief after moving back to the states from Europe? Or any other part of the world? I feel so relieved, its a huge stress off my shoulders that is indescribable.

After coming back from Sweden, I sure am thankful to be able to have had the opportunity to see many parts of the world and live outside the US for a long time to really appreciate a lot and see the truth about many things. Anyone else feel the same?

I dont mourn moving back and am more happy and excited than ever and sometimes talking with extended family in Europe I catch myself down playing my true feelings.

Disclaimer: this is just MY experience and many other immigrants Ive met and know..... sad that to not get bombarded you need to jump on the hate America and "Everything in the US is TERRIBLE" train....

I dont miss American consumerism. What I mean is, there is a difference in buying "junk", and literally having to go to a different city (sometimes a larger city an hr away) to buy jeans or different styles of clothes. stuff like that.

Edit: wow, clearly my lived experiences are very controversial and people hate that these are truths to me and many other immigrants I have met and know. oh well.