Could Hurrem Sultan have saved a disgraced Anne Boelyn?

Could Hurrem Sultan have saved a disgraced Anne Boelyn?

This is a slightly insane what if nobody's really brought up, so hear me out:

Hürrem Sultan of the Ottoman Empire was the legal wife of Sultan Süleiman the Magnificent. She held enormous influence at Süleiman's court and completely changed the conventions of the Ottoman imperial harem.

By the time Anne Boleyn's rapid decline in power began around 1536, Hürrem was already Haseki Sultan and one of the most influential women at the Ottoman court.

Meanwhile, geopolitically, the Franco-Ottoman relationship was already developing. Francis I was in conflict with Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, and increasingly needed Süleiman as a counterweight to Habsburg power. Anne also already had extensive connections to France and had spent part of her youth at the French court. It's therefore not entirely implausible to imagine her fleeing there if she realized what was happening quickly enough and somehow managed to escape England.

So here is my actual what-if: what if Hürrem learned that Anne's position was rapidly becoming dangerous and quietly encouraged the French court to receive Anne and Elizabeth if they fled England? I don't mean Süleiman threatening Henry VIII or Ottoman ships showing up to rescue Anne. I'm imagining something much subtler: Hürrem, who historically did engage in diplomatic correspondence with foreign monarchs, could quietly make it known to Francis's court that the Haseki Sultan had taken an interest in Anne's situation and would look favorably upon France receiving her and her daughter. Considering how important Ottoman friendship was becoming to Francis, I strongly think the French court would at least take that message seriously.

You might ask why the wife of Suleyman would bother? I can think of several reasons:

1.) There are some genuinely fascinating similarities between these women. Both became the legal wives of enormously powerful monarchs under highly unusual and controversial circumstances, both disrupted existing conventions surrounding royal marriage, and both had enormous stakes in the futures of their children. Obviously, I'm not suggesting Hürrem would suddenly develop sixteenth-century feminist solidarity with a woman she'd never met, but I don't think some degree of personal sympathy or fascination is impossible either. More importantly, though, Anne Boleyn being alive is geopolitically useful.

2.) Catherine of Aragon was Charles V's aunt. Charles was Sultan Süleiman's great Habsburg rival, while Anne's marriage to Henry was at the center of England's rupture with Rome. If Hürrem has an opportunity to keep this incredibly inconvenient woman alive at essentially zero cost to the Ottoman Empire, why wouldn't she consider it?

3.) Anne doesn't even have to become an Ottoman ally or actively do anything for them. Her continued existence is the problem. Hürrem's calculation could honestly be very simple: all she has to do is quietly make sure France knows that if Anne Boleyn shows up at their door, Constantinople would very much prefer that they don't send her back.

Instead of Henry executing Anne, there is now a former crowned Queen of England living under French protection, maintaining that she was Henry's lawful wife and that the charges against her were false. More importantly, Elizabeth is living beside her. Anne's mere existence becomes a permanent diplomatic nuisance for Henry.

So let's say Anne realizes what's happening slightly earlier than she did historically, somehow manages to flee England with Elizabeth, and reaches France. Francis receives her and refuses Henry's demands to return her. Henry eventually discovers that the French court had actually been prepared to receive Anne because Hürrem Sultan had quietly encouraged them to do so.

Thoughts?

u/Green-Guitar1736 — 12 days ago

Does anybody prefer the EDT > EDP for most scents?

I adore Fleur de Peus EDT so much it works really well with skin chemistry and it is truly such a skin scent I can smell it all day on myself. Sophisticated, airy, clean, and intimate. I can't love the EDP for Fleus de Peus though it smells too animalistic on me personally.

I also similarly loved Orpheon's EDT ...more than the very beloved EDP.

But my bone with the EDT is projection. I do love the EDT scent profile's themselves but I wish they had the power of an EDP if that makes sense.

Anyone else?

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u/Green-Guitar1736 — 26 days ago

Any Edith Wharton lovers here?

Wharton is absolutely cannon but surprisingly I haven't met too many people who have thoroughly read her works.

I'm recently finished House of Mirth and I actually like it a lot more than Age of Innocence I think Wharton shines when she's at her sharpest. I'm halfway through her sensual New England story Summer which I also really like. I have not gotten to Ethan Frome yet though.

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u/Green-Guitar1736 — 1 month ago

Today, Valide Kosem Sultan tragically died 375 years ago...

On the ominous and tragic night of September 2nd, 1651 Kosem Sultan was assassinated. She is buried next to Sultan Ahmet at the Blue Mosque.

In honour of her memory these were her magnificent titles she has received during her lifetime and in historiography: Naib-i Sultanate (Regent: this was not used during her times but is reflected in later literature to describe her role), Valide-i Mu’azzama (the Exalted Valide), Koca-Valide (senior Valide), Valide-i Kebire (the Great Valide), Büyük-Valide (the Elder Valide), Vâlide-i Maktule (the Murdered mother), Vâlide-i Şahide ( the Martyred mother). Kosem Sultan is the only woman in Ottoman history to receive such prestigious titulature and honorifics. She was also the haseki Sultan of Sultan Ahmed I.

Apart from being one of the most powerful woman in Ottoman history, she was also one of the most beloved woman by the contemporary Ottoman populace-an extraordinary feat for an imperial woman who would have remained largely inaccessible and unseen by ordinary people.

May Allah have mercy on her soul & accept her good deeds.

u/Green-Guitar1736 — 1 month ago
▲ 79 r/MagnificentCentury+1 crossposts

Safiye Sultan’s quote from MCK about Nurbanu!

I absolutely adore this edit of Nurbanu where it shows the scene of Safiye Sultan telling Kosem:

“Never in my life have I seen a woman more beautiful or cruel than her”

Now obviously we don’t have a record of what real life Safiye thought of her de facto mother in law (it’s probably much harsher than that) but the “cruel” part of the comment is absolutely an ode to her rough time as Murad’s consort. Still disappointed we didn’t get to see these two have their own season!

At the same time it’s very telling show Safiye still calls her “beautiful” because Nurbanu was THE first official Valide sultan and probably the biggest role model of power for Safiye when she became Valide herself. It’s a kind of begrudging respect.

u/Green-Guitar1736 — 2 months ago

If you dislike Hurrem in the show, why did you watch it?

Basically the title. I can’t understand why anybody would bother watch magnificent century hating Hurrem the whole time…

(I’m talking purely about the show pov btw, no need for misogynistic nonsense about historical Hurrem pls!)

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u/Green-Guitar1736 — 2 months ago

The reality of Hurrem Sultan’s power!

While the Valide Sultan title is institutionally higher than the Haseki Sultan, this did not always mean it translated to more power!

Hurrem Sultan’s undisputed and absolute influence over the empire at its zenith made her eclipse the constraints of what was available for any woman at her time. The true founder of the Sultanafe of Women

👑👸🏼✨

u/Green-Guitar1736 — 3 months ago

One of the reasons MC feels so different from MCK

As somebody who genuinely enjoyed MC: Kösem, I think one thing the second show never quite captured was the domestic warmth of the harem. In the original MC, you get the sense that things are...okay. The harem feels lived in. MCK has traces of this too, but far less believably and far less often.

A lot of people rightly criticize the original show for downplaying the political side of Hurrem Sultan and the imperial harem. I actually agree with that criticism. But in retrospect, the show's hyper-focus on interpersonal drama and harem life makes sense precisely because it takes place during the Suleymanic "golden age."

The original MC almost feels insulated from the wider world. Not completely, but enough that the audience can spend entire episodes worrying about rivalries, romances, scandals, and palace gossip. (I personally found most of them quite silly compared to MCk but lol). By contrast, MCK constantly has state politics crashing through the walls of the harem. The empire's problems become the harem's problems, and there's no avoiding it.

It's almost as if you can feel that the empire is at its zenith in the original series. The writers can afford silly subplots because the state itself feels secure. Ironically, that sense of stability contributes enormously to the show's atmosphere.

The real disservice is that we rarely see the full extent of Hurrem's patronage networks and influence over very direct and tangible state affairs. And the few times the show does emphasize her political role, it usually revolves around Mustafa's execution, a storyline that we already know is heavily driven by propaganda and ridiculous melodrama.

One reason MCK is far less harem-focused than the original is simply that the politics were such a chaotic mess. The crises become impossible to ignore. I think that's one of the reasons I enjoyed MCk more. It's a bit more "plot forward" if that makes sense. Thoughts?

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u/Green-Guitar1736 — 4 months ago
▲ 3 r/SBU

BIO202 over the summer

Has anyone here taken BIO202 over the summer?

How was it and do you have any tips? Also, is anybody currently in it rn...

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u/Green-Guitar1736 — 4 months ago

Most powerful Haseki Sultan after Suleyman’s reign: Safiye Sultan

The amount of influence Safiye Sultan had as Haseki was extraordinary, second to Hurrem Sultan ofc, but phenomonal.

I can only imagine if Sultan Murad didn’t have a powerful Valide Sultan (Nurbanu) ruling, the extent of influence Safiye would reach ! A crazy what if. Dare I say if Nurbanu had died earlier, Safiye lowkey might’ve displaced her Sultan to put Mehmed on the throne. (A possibility)

u/Green-Guitar1736 — 5 months ago
▲ 29 r/MagnificentCentury+1 crossposts

Imagine Ottoman palace politics covered like modern celebrity/news media. Drop your best BREAKING NEWS headlines from the 16th–17th century harem

This is an idea that came to my head and I think its so tea. I think it can be very creative hehe (based on real history though)

I'll go with a few that came to mind:

"BREAKING NEWS: Sultan Suleiman marries former concubine, grants unprecedented title ‘Haseki Sultan’ "

"The Topkapi Times: Safiye Sultan banished to the Old Palace as Mahpeyker rises in influence"

"BREAKING NEWS: Murad IV ends Kösem Sultan’s regency, assumes full control of the empire"

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u/Green-Guitar1736 — 5 months ago

Does anyone else use Magnificent Century as background ambiance?

I just let the show play in my living room background for ambiance. It's weirdly perfect for it.

I remember when I was in Istanbul this Uber I called from the airport had Magnificent Century playing in the car and I truly felt like I arrived ahahaha. People don't talk enough about how this show is super good for marketing Istanbul tourism ooop.

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u/Green-Guitar1736 — 5 months ago

List of portrayals mentioned in this video here:

- Mine Manavoğlu (Mimar Sinan mini TV show) 1988

- Claudia Cardinal (The Battle of the Three Kings) 1990

- Olha Sumska (Roxelana) 1996-2003

- Gulben Ergan (Hurrem Sultan) 2003

- Sólveg Arnarsdóttir (Die Geliebte des Sultans - Docu) 2005

- Hülya Avşar (8 Ülke 8 Yönetmen & Sinan - Docu) 2011

- Meryem Uzerli ofccc (Magnificent Century) 2011-2013

- Vahide Perçin (Magnificent century) 2013-2014

- Megan Gale (Three Thousand Years of Longing) 2022

Who’s the most book accurate portrayal of Hurrem in terms of looks? (I saw some clips of Olha Sumska in Roxelana and I rlly liked it! For me she’s most book accurate). I also find it fascinating Safiye Sulans actress in MCk played Hurrem before.

I haven’t seen all these shows, but it’s cool how there’s several works that try to portray her! Does anyone have any thoughts?

u/Green-Guitar1736 — 6 months ago

I thought this edit portrayed the intensity and violence with which Turhan’s rise came from along with Kosem's unfortunate assassination which the show didn’t sanitize.

Also in the beginning Turhan says: “as long as I live, no princes shall be killed”

— and indeed real life Turhan did admirably keep that promise against the explicit command of her regnal son! I'll leave this excerpt from historian Lucienne Thys-Şenocak's book about Turhan Sultan:

>“With his usual literary flare Rycault describes the moment when Mehmed’s order arrived at the Topkapı Palace:

But no sooner was this fatal Command arrived in the hands of the Queen, but she trembled so much, that she could scarce hold the Paper. At length considering, that (as hath been said before) she had given in caution to the Janissaries for the lives of these Princes, and that to her care they were committed, she immediately disclosed and published the design of the Grand Signior to the Janisar-Ağa, craving his help and protection, protesting that she was resolved to maintain the faith she had given to those Princes, whose life she tendered equal with her own.58”  — Excerpt From Ottoman Women Builders

u/Green-Guitar1736 — 6 months ago

I like this clip which I think summarizes their dynamic decently (Kosem and Turhan) at least when Turhan was Ibrahim’s consort to some degree:

“Honestly, she’s more of a favorite of Kosem than Sultan Ibrahim’s. She raised her specifically. She’s like Kosem’s shadow. Everyone’s afraid of her.”

Not sure if the Beyhan Sultana part is accurate but I think it summarizes Kosem and Turhans near protege dynamic. Two of the most powerful Valide Sultan's in Ottoman history.

u/Green-Guitar1736 — 6 months ago