r/MagnificentCentury

İpşirli Argıt, Rabia Gülnuş Emetullah Sultan, “A Queen-mother and the Ottoman Imperial Harem”.

Betül İpşirli Argıt has demonstrated that Gülnuş Sultan, the mother of Mustafa II and Ahmed III was in fact another Valide Sultan of great importance in the late 17th and 18th centuries.

According to Betül İpşirli Argıt, upon Turhan Sultan’s death in 1683, Gülnuş became the sole authority in the Imperial Harem, and her political power and influence only grew bolder under the sultanates of her two sons, despite the political instability and depositions of both of her sons. (She would pass away before her second son Ahmed III was deposed)

Indeed, from 1695 until her death in 1715, Gülnuş Sultan acted as one of the chief royal advisors, a power-broker in contemporary court politics as well as a key intermediary agent of diplomacy, as exemplified by her personal involvement and correspondence in the traffic of the diplomatic relations and negotiations during the so-called Great Northern War between Russia and Sweden (King Charles XII of Sweden fled to the Ottoman Empire in 1709 and he worked aggressively to persuade Sultan Ahmed III to attack Tsar Peter the Great) —a conflict to which the Ottoman Empire was drawn as an ally of Swedish. (Explained in great detail in Dilek Seniha Cenez’s work: 18. Yüzyılda bir devlet adamı: Çorlulu Ali Paşa)

She authored the definitive study "A Queen Mother and the Ottoman Imperial Harem: Rabia Gülnuş Emetullah Valide Sultan (1640–1715)", published in the Oxford University Press volume Concubines and Courtesans: Women and Slavery in Islamic History.

Her research challenges the narrative that female political power in the Ottoman Empire sharply declined after the mid 17th century after Turhan Sultan, and Gülnus was another key figure of the "Sultanate of Women". By analyzing the life of Rabia Gülnuş Emetullah, she demonstrates that late 17th and early 18th century Ottoman Valide Sultans continued to possess extraordinary social, architectural, and political authority.

According to Ispirli Argit, Gülnus was deeply involved in state affairs, acting as a critical bridge between her sons and the imperial court. She used her alliances to influence the appointments and dismissals of Grand Viziers and other high-ranking officials. Gülnus did not shy away from international relations, going as far as corresponding directly with foreign statesmen and rulers during major conflicts like the Great Northern War.

She channeled vast amounts of personal wealth into large-scale charitable endowments (waqfs). This included funding hospitals, mosques, and soup kitchens not just in Istanbul, but also along the pilgrimage route to Mecca and Medina.

Muzaffer Özgüleş has accordingly dubbed her “one of the most influential of Ottoman royal women”, due to her prolonged prestige and standing as Haseki and Valide Sultan.

Gülnüş Sultan was not the first Ottoman imperial woman to build a hospital in Makkah, following in the footsteps of another haseki, Hürrem Sultan. However, unlike Hurrem Sultan, Gülnüş Sultan’s dar al-shifa (hospital) in 1679 is less popular.

Historian Muzaffer Özgüleş dedicated his 2017 book “Female Patronage and the Architectural Legacy of Gülnuş Sultan” to Gülnuş Sultan.

Baltacı Mehmed Pasha: Gülnus was a key supporter of his. During his tenure, she directly received and reviewed letters regarding his military campaigns and political standing. Baltaci Mehmed Pasha (1704–1706, 1710–1711) famously led the Ottoman forces to a major victory over Peter the Great during the Prut River Campaign in 1711. He successfully encircled the Russian army, forcing Russia to return the fortress of Azov.

Merve Karacay Turkal, The Dismissal process of Baltaci Mehmed Pasha and the Letter sent to Valide Gülnus Sultan

Çorlulu Ali Pasha: Supported by the Valide Gülnus Sultan until his downfall, he was Ahmed III's chosen Grand Vizier early in the reign, managing the treasury and stabilizing the government. Appointed early in Ahmed's reign, he was instrumental in reorganizing the treasury, stabilizing the government against rival factions, and managing early diplomatic relations with Sweden and Europe.

Dilek Seniha Cenez, 18. Yüzyılda bir devlet adamı: Çorlulu Ali Paşa (1706-1710)

Fatma Sultan, daughter of Ahmed I is famous for her many marriages which are political alliances with pashas, she is possibly the Ottoman princess who had the highest total number of husbands—I won’t talk about all of her marriages here as this post would be too long.—She is the daughter of Kosem Sultan, and her full siblings are: Mehmed, Ayse, Hanzade, Murad (IV), Suleyman, and Ibrahim (I). She lived a long life and lived well into Mehmed IV’s reign, the eldest son of her youngest brother Ibrahim. Speaking of Ibrahim, Fatma Sultan shares her name with one of Ibrahim’s daughters, Fatma Sultan the younger.

⭐️Evliya Celebi’s male centered account of Melek Ahmed Pasha’s marriage to Fatma Sultan

In the first part of this post, I would like to talk about Evliya Celebi’s account of Melek Ahmed Pasha’s marriage to Fatma Sultan, daughter of Ahmed I. Please keep in mind that Evliya Celebi is a storyteller, his stories are very compelling, but they are also partly fictional and it can be hard to tell which part of his stories are based on historical facts. In my personal opinion, he also has a pretty male-centered approach to these marriages between Pashas and Ottoman Princesses: According to Evliya Celebi, Fatma Sultan is “old, wrinkled, and financially greedy” whereas Melek Ahmed Pasha’s previous royal wife Kaya Sultan, daughter of Murad IV, was “young, dutiful, a virgin when she met her husband”, their relationship was an ideal romance in Evliya’s eyes, and Kaya Sultan even performed the utmost sacrifice a woman could provide in her marriage by dying in childbirth. Kaya is young and low maintenance, whereas Fatma is old and very demanding.

Here is Evliya Celebi’s account of Melek Ahmed Pasha and Fatma Sultan’s union:

In November 1661, while on campaign, Melek Ahmed Pasha found himself in an arranged marriage orchestrated by Grand Vizier Köprülü Mehmed Pasha, he was married to Fatma Sultan, the daughter of Sultan Ahmed, Fatma Sultan was seventy-seven years old at the time. ➡️ (❌Fatma Sultan was actually in her early 50’s at the time)

Meanwhile, Köprülü Mehmed Pasha passed away and his son, Fazıl Ahmed Pasha became his successor. In his own words, Köprülü Mehmed Pasha had bequeathed “the state’s elephant” to Melek Ahmed Pasha. The state’s elephant, that is, Fatma Sultan, a burden that was extremely difficult to satisfy. ➡️ (❌Köprülü Mehmed Pasha was the type of person who would use this “elephant” analogy, but Evliya Çelebi also has a male centered view around these Princess-Pasha marriages)

Shortly after this marriage—which was, in essence, never consummated—Melek Ahmed Pasha passed away. Although Fatma Sultan sought to seize nearly all of Melek Ahmed Pasha’s estate as her mehr, Fazıl Ahmed Pasha prevented this. Melek Ahmed Pasha left 1,000 gold pieces each to his son Ibrahim and his daughter Fatma. According to Evliya Çelebi, 40,000 or 50,000 people attended Melek Ahmed Pasha’s funeral.

According to Evliya, Melek Ahmed Pasha compared being married to Fatma sultan to being tormented:

“My friend, let this stay between us, even the prisoners in Malta never suffered the torment I endured on this wedding night! What a shameless, immoral, and wasteful woman she is!” On their very first night, Melek Ahmed Pasha speaks of Fatma Sultan’s disrespectful behavior toward him.
“I went up to her and kissed her hand”

“Though she was a senile old woman who had divorced twelve husbands, she acted like a virgin in full bloom” ➡️ ❌Melek Ahmed Pasha wasn’t a young man himself either!

According to Evliya Celebi, Fatma Sultan’s first words to Melek Ahmed Pasha were: “My dear Pasha, if you want to get along with me, I have 15 keses in expenses every month. Every year, I need a supply of firewood equivalent to six Marmara-sized ships.” As Fatma Sultan listed her other expenses, more than 300 of her servants kept coming up to kiss his hand and ask for tips.

Fatma Sultan said that she had approximately 300 domestic staff, and on top of that there were just as many freed women and their families living outside of her palace. The total number is 700 people. She requested from Melek Ahmed Pasha the annual expenses for all of their clothing, as well as the annual salaries for the cook, the steward, the lords, and their servants.

In response, Melek Ahmed Pasha said that none of her demands would be feasible without oppressing the people and forcibly seizing their property. “I can bear the expenses of the late Kaya Sultan, but I do not have the means to cover these expenses which are about five times as much compared to Kaya Sultan’s expenses!”

Fatma Sultan said, “My dear Pasha, do you compare me to someone like Kaya Sultan? She is my brother’s daughter. I am the daughter of Sultan Ahmed Han. Look at this slave of my father’s! he dares to equate me with Kaya Sultan!”

Melek Ahmed Pasha replied: “Forgive me, my Sultan! How could I ever compare you to Kaya Sultan? You, my lady, are the daughter of Ahmed Han, a 77-year-old (!) old woman (❌Again, Fatma Sultan was in her early fifties at the time). You’ve lived a long life, seen many faces (as in insinuating that she is NOT a virgin), and you are now left with only 12 husbands.” According to Evliya, Melek Ahmed Pasha went on to compare Kaya Sultan with Fatma Sultan, saying that Fatma Sultan was “wrinkled.” ➡️ ❌It is basically impossible for a royal groom to say such things to Fatma Sultan. Again, this is most likely Evliya’s exaggeration. Evliya Celebi criticizes the cost of these imperial marriages at the expense of Fatma Sultan. In another example, when he was recounting Mehmed III executing his 19 brothers, he strictly refrains from shifting any blame to the male Sultan, so it’s interesting how he openly criticized a female member of the royal family..

Melek Ahmed Pasha continued: “While I was on the campaign in Erdel and had no idea about this marriage, I was apparently given your hand in marriage in Istanbul! The news of the wedding reached me in Erdel! Just as I was rejoicing that I’d been spared the expenses of Kaya Sultan, the late Köprülü Mehmed Pasha had married you off, to me!
Köprülü Mehmed Pasha had said, ‘I gave Melek an elephant, he better take care of it!’ Then he died!” ➡️ ❌ elephant here is a financial analogy, marriages to Ottoman Princesses could be costly for their husbands.

We (Fatma Sultan and Melek Ahmed Pasha) argued fiercely until morning. It was neither a wedding night nor any other kind of night. (No consummation happened.) Finally, I said, “My Sultan, take all the expenses you mentioned. May God take my life before I ever come here again.”

According to Evliya, Melek Ahmed Pasha wept, saying, “I will never set foot in Fatma Sultan’s palace again, and God willing, I will never even see her face again.”

🦋🦋🦋

⭐️ Fatma Sultan the “Elephant of the State”: The transfer of wealth from high ranking Pashas

Fatma Sultan was subject to negative rumors in Ottoman society because she had been married many times. The source of her wealth was not only her stipend and revenues as a female member of the Ottoman dynasty, but it can also be attributed to the transfer of wealth from her many husbands. The government reclaimed the property that had accumulated in the hands of the pashas through these marriages, in this sense, the marriage between a princess and pasha could be seen as a financial policy. Köprülü allegedly addressed her as “the elephant of the state” because in the Ottoman Empire, marrying an Ottoman princess was a very costly endeavor for prospective grooms.

Fatma Sultan valued her appearance, she enjoyed elegance and luxury and her financial status allowed her to treat herself to such luxuries. In her daily life, she owned small containers in which she kept her decorative items.

Through her marriages to high ranking officials, Fatma Sultan not only amassed great wealth but also, gained the ability to influence the administrative decisions of the central government. The extent of her wealth as recorded in the estate inventory cannot be explained solely by her income and revenues as a female member of the dynasty. It is certain that the mehr she received from her husbands contributed to her wealth.

The total wealth recorded in Fatma Sultan’s estate was 7,277,549 akçe.
Of this wealth, 2 million akçe consisted of real estate, nearly 3 million akçe of household goods, and slightly over 2,300,000 akçe of jewelry.
Source: Gokhan Civelek and İbrahim Etem Çakır

The revenues of the Manastır district, which had been under Fatma Sultan’s control, was transferred to Haseki Gülnus Sultan beginning in March 1671. We can assume Fatma Sultan had passed away in that year.

🦋🦋🦋

⭐️ What happened to Melek Ahmed Pasha?

Melek Ahmed Pasha was appointed Beylerbey of Bosnia in 1659 and successfully repelled the Venetians who invaded the Bosnian province in 1660. On November 15, 1660, he was transferred to the Rumelia province.

While spending the winter in Belgrade, Melek Ahmed Pasha was married off to Fatma Sultan; he was informed by a decree that he had been married and must return to Istanbul immediately. Upon returning to Istanbul, he was taken straight to the bridal chamber. After serving in the Divan for three months, Melek Ahmed Pasha passed away (1662).

Source:

Evliya Celebi’nin seyahatnamesi

İhtiras ve Servetin Gölgesinde Bir Sultan: Fatma Sultan, Gökhan Civelek, İbrahim Etem Çakır

My posts about Evliya Celebi:

Evliya Celebi’s recount of the fratricide of Murad III’s sons https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/wK57wHtbHR

Kaya Sultan’s death according to Evliya Celebi https://www.reddit.com/r/MagnificentCentury/s/NHSutBJRT0

https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/E23vCETJ0g

A user just asked me to make a separate post about Meryem’s 2013 interview. TW: Meryem was at a very low point during her life before she abruptly quit filming MC, so this may be triggering to those who have mental health issues.

Highlights from Meryem’s 2013 interview after she left the set due to burnout and depression:
(She was pregnant at the time of the interview with her first daughter)

Meryem was about to wrap season 3 of MC when she had to urgently fly back to Germany to get treatment for her burnout and depression.

She was mentally in such a bad place that when she heard the doorbell ring while in Germany, she thought some people would forcefully take her back to the film set in Turkey. She feels very sorry for having to leave the set, but explains that she had no other choice. She feel very guilty about disappointing Meral Okay, the script writer who passed away while Meryem was still filming.

She attempted unaliving herself after an awards ceremony. Then she shattered the award and cut herself by mistake.

Meryem says she needed to be in Germany to get mental health help, not because Turkey doesn’t offer the help but because of the language barrier it would be pretty difficult to seek help for depression there

The MC producer firmly refused her return to the series after she had to fly back to Germany, because he thought this was unprofessional. Her brother tried to intervene on her behalf but he made up his mind about replacing her with a new actress.—he openly talked about this during an interview.

Because her Turkish was not fluent at the time, sometimes she had to stay up all night studying the script to catch up with other actors and actresses

She admits that she had trouble adapting to Turkey, she felt so lonely that she enjoyed the attention she got from her ex bf initially. She met her bf when she was already in a bad place mentally. Even before meeting him she felt so lonely and out of place that she didn’t even think of googling his name or extracting some personal information about this man. She has more friends in Berlin at the time of her departure from the show and she felt she had a better social safety net in Germany. She complains about the social norms in Turkey.

Her ex bf made unsolicited comments about her weight and was abusive towards her when she said she wanted to keep the baby.

She says MC Hurrem and Meryem are opposite personalities and she felt like she completely destroyed Meryem during filming

🩵I’m glad Meryem is mentally doing much better nowadays, she’s involved in lots of new projects, filming and has new sponsorships! She’s such a kind, graceful and emotionally intelligent woman and her personality is so gentle and resilient. The producers seem to finally have reconciled with her and I’m looking forward to her new projects.

I know most people here don’t like his acting but I loved his character so much. Most pure, uncorrupted prince who truly deserved the throne. I wish they showed it more that why Suleiman wanted him to be the king but since the writers and directors were hell bent on showing Mustafa as the rightful and perfect one, they completely ruined characters of Hurrem’s sons…

Mustafa had over 7 woman throughout
He easily jumped to bed with most of the women and easily fell in love too.
But apparently it’s Selim who was a womaniser but yea he stayed loyal to one woman… lmaooo the show is super contradictory. Mustafa was a womaniser while Selim was loyal to Nurbano, the only woman before her was Dilsah and he stopped seeing her too. Unlike most of the kings Selim didn’t lecture Nurbano when she said to him that there will be no other woman.
Love love love him and Nurbano

I'm constantly seeing people say that Mihrimah was the only child of both Suleiman and Hurrem who inherited their talents and positive qualities. She also seemed to be quite politically astute and, at the very least, good at short-term scheming.

So what would have changed if she had been born male instead of female, while retaining the same personality and traits? Would she have given both Mustafa and Selim a run for their money after Mehmed's death? Outsmart Nurbanu? Or was all of her influence and Suleiman's favoritism simply a result of her being his daughter?

Title.

I am not sure if the admin is aware of how sadistic this exact thumbnail makes Suleyman look. If I was not a frequent viewer and came across this, I would be distraught. The contrast between him smiling and laughing (from another scene) to her bathing and crying in the hammam is trigger some.

What happened to Victoria and how it was depicted is slightly different from the other narrative of other concubines and their perspectives. For the most part they appear joyous and content to be chosen. She wasn’t.

I don’t think it’s incidental to be framing their thumbnail in this way, although I am not sure the exact reason why. Whether it is meant to be taken as a macho moment for Suleyman (which I don’t believe) or that you are exactly meant to be disgusted by his action.

Unlike the other sisters of Suleiman, Beyhan Sultan never had any thirst for power and palace politics. All she wanted was a peaceful life with her kids and husband. I wished she had a bit more screentime like Hatice, Shah, or Fatma Sultan.

Bragadin’s 1526 report describes the close friendship of Sultan Suleyman and Ibrahim Pasha:

“Ibrahim is the Sultan’s right hand man. He does whatever the Sultan asks, and the Sultan does nothing without consulting him—nor does Ibrahim. Ibrahim is from Parga; he has no children. He is a frail man, with a small face, pale, not very tall, kind-hearted, eloquent, and entertaining.

…

He loves to have fun and really enjoys having novels read to him. He reads books about the life of Alexander the Great, Hannibal, wars, and history. He composes music with an Iranian musician at the palace.

…

The Sultan loves him dearly and cannot do without him; he often stays at the palace by the Sultan’s side, and they even sleep in beds with their heads touching. Every day, the Sultan writes important tasks to him with his own hand and sends them via a mute messenger. Ibrahim Pasha also records all the tasks that are carried out. Suleyman cannot live without Ibrahim Pasha.

…

Sultan Suleyman had a beautiful palace built for them (Ibrahim and Muhsine Hatun), but the Janissaries ransacked it a bit. It was later repaired. He has a wife but no children; his mother and two brothers live in the palace. His mother, who has embraced Islam, lives in a room next to his and provides great assistance to the Christians. His father has a Sanjak in Parga, which has a revenue of 2,000 ducats a year.

In the past, everyone used to hate him, but now that they’ve seen how much the Sultan loves him, everyone is trying to befriend him—including the Sultan’s mother*, his wife (Hurrem), and the other two Pashas. (*This is interesting because in one of his letters to his wife Muhsine Hatun, Ibrahim mentions that Muhsine had formerly turned down invitations from Hafsa Hatun to visit Imperial Palace and she even refused to attend the circumcision ceremony of a Prince.)

No one ever opposes him on any matter. That is why he can do whatever he wants. He is very loyal to his Sultan. He enjoys receiving gifts in public, but he never accepts any gifts in secret.”

The report by Secretary Daniello De Ludovisi read in the Senate on June 3, 1534 however, contained much harsher words about Ibrahim and mentioned the execution of Ferhad Pasha, and Ibrahim’s dispute with Rüstem…
This may be related to the failure of the 1529 Siege of Vienna and Ibrahim’s eventual fall out of favor.

Suleyman can be described as a man who had favorites and enjoyed devoting most of his private time to his favorites. He had a favorite consort: Hurrem, a favorite friend: Ibrahim and a favorite son: Mehmed.

Bragadin also recounts the story of Sultan Suleyman eating together with Ibrahim and Prince Mustafa getting offended and throwing a childish fit because his father eats everyday “with his slave”.

I previously had talked about the “Sultans eat alone” custom in Ottoman Empire here https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/pLaxlFGsKi

Even if I haven’t seen any direct reports or dispatches mentioning Suleyman ate together with Hurrem and his family, and breaking the custom of Mehmed the conqueror, it’s very likely that he broke that tradition—he was also reported to be “spending every night at the harem with the same woman” early in their relationship, who is inarguably Hurrem, so my educated guess is Suleyman ate together with Hurrem and possibly their children on many occasions.

One more thing I’d like to mention is, each Sultan’s reign is pretty unique, and the more I study Ottoman history, the more I realize we should take general Islamic rules or Ottoman customs with a grain of salt and focus on contemporary reports and sources. Not that these rules or customs don’t have any significance but Sultans keep surprising me in many ways. I’ve become increasingly wary of making assumptions about a certain period based on the rules and customs of another period, depends on the occasion of course, but it’s definitely something to keep an eye on.

Edit: Since some of you guys are wondering if this relationship between them was anything more than just close friendship, I personally don’t think so. I think it was just Ibrahim keeping his Hasodabasi (head of the privy chamber) traditions even after being promoted to Grand Vizier position in an unprecedented way.

I think, this close friendship was probably seen as a breach of security by bystanders over anything else. Sultan Suleyman is the most vulnerable during eating and sleep, and him allowing Ibrahim into his personal space means he 100% trusts him with his life which is a bit risky given that Ibrahim had amassed considerable power on his own as a Grand Vizier.

However, Hasodabaşı (head of privy chamber, Ibrahim’s former position) was a position that required responsibility over Sultan’s personal care, assisting the Sultan with dressing and undressing during official ceremonies, daily life and managing his personal living space. Dressing the Sultan is quite an important task because Hasodabasi needs to make sure the Sultan is safe, his clothes are clean and safe etc. When Ibrahim was Has Odabaşı he probably overtook those tasks, so I don’t really think it’s odd for him to have an intimate, personal connection with the Sultan and be very close to him physically at the time. (I really don’t think it’s anything sexual honestly)

After he was promoted to Grand Vizier in an unprecedented way tho, this close friendship was probably no longer seen appropriate. It seems like Ibrahim just climbed up the career ladder a bit too fast and couldn’t leave behind his Hasodabasi ways even after being promoted to Grand Vizierate.

Episode 138 is one of the most tragic episodes in Magnificent Century, as we watch Beyazid’s sons being executed in front of him by Selim’s men. Beyazid’s final words are not the type of words a person can easily stomach: "Yüzyıllar geçse bile hainlikle, sarhoşlukla anılacaksın!" screams a defeated Beyazid. (“Even after many centuries, you will be remembered for your treachery and drunkenness!” in English)

As Beyazid breaks through the “fourth wall”, an invisible barrier in film between the viewers and actors, he blinks at our modern perception of Selim.—convincing us, who now live in modern day after some centuries later, that Selim is the evil one undeserving of his throne.

The reality is different. Neither Selim was as drunk and incompetent as the slander against him suggests, nor Beyazid was this misunderstood Prince who was constantly wronged by his older brother and cast aside by his own father.

In Costantino Garzoni’s 1573 relazione, the Venetian senator in the legate of Bailo Marcantonio Barbaro reports:

>>”Selim leaves the management of the state and the faring of wars in the hands of Grand Vizier Mehmet Pasha, although the latter would never put into effect any act of great consequence without consulting with the Grand Signore.”

Some more details about Selim actually being a competent Sultan who simply didn’t comply to 16th century social norms can be found here
https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/kRLVWzfTkf

Beyazid on the other hand, challenged Suleyman’s patience over and over again after his mom Hurrem Sultan’s passing, gathered paid troops, refused to move to his newly assigned provincial position in Amasya, and the subsequent Battle of Princes in Konya & Beyazid’s rebellion can even be tied to future Celali rebellions as I explained here: https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/FqoKgelSv0

(Also the English translation of a letter from Mihrimah to her father Suleyman written during the period Beyazid refused to move to Amasya can be found here https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/rwdmK3d3SX Mihrimah was quite shocked at his behavior unlike how she’s portrayed in MC and had a more stabilizing role between her two brothers. I’ve summarized the Konya Battle of Princes here https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/MAUSIWXPfj )

His 30.000 armed man turned into a large, armed mass of bandits in Anatolia which posed a threat in the second half of 16th century. This was NOT the sole reason of Celali rebellions of course, but it was one of them, and as a result so many innocent Anatolian villagers suffered as these bandits SA’d and looted people. There are reports of women and children being SA’d by these bandits in kadi records.

This Battle of Princes was such a turning point in Ottoman History starting from this period only the eldest prince was assigned a Sanjakbey position. —not by choice during Selim II’s reign of course, as his other sons than Murad (III) were simply too young to be assigned provincial positions.

There are still traces of these Celali rebellions in Anatolia today if we dig deep enough, so I find it a bit ironic for Beyazid to tell Selim that he will be remembered as the traitor even after many centuries pass..

This also makes me think of the Ottoman Interregnum (fetret devri). Fratricide was a horrible practice, but it seems there was simply no other way of preventing civil war and fratricide was seen as a contemporary solution of preventing the suffering of thousands of innocent civilians by sacrificing a few. Still incredibly tragic, but what I’m trying to say is that there is more nuance to this situation than “omg evil Ottomans murdering their own princes!!”

I still find Murad III’s non stop fathering of children incredibly irresponsible tho. He should have stopped himself after a few healthy spare princes.

I’m just thinking, the ramifications of Beyazid’s rebellion are overshadowed by this supposed ugly duckling of the family story. Even Pecevi later criticized Beyazid and said, “perhaps his circumcision ceremony was cut short because the God didn’t intend a festive ceremony for a rebellious Prince”. (Comparing his ceremony to his older brother’s, which was longer) I actually find Beyazid’s rebellion even more treacherous than Prince Mustafa’s open acceptance of love and adoration from Janissaries, because Beyazid had lived through an example of “the execution of Mustafa”. Mustafa on the other hand, might have thought he would be next Sultan anyway as usually it’s the oldest Prince who gets the throne except for Selim I’s example (Suleyman’s father) and Suleyman was in poor health some time before his execution.