r/sultanateofwomen

Fatma Sultan, daughter of Ahmed I is famous for her many marriages which are political alliances with pashas, she is possibly the Ottoman princess who had the highest total number of husbands—I won’t talk about all of her marriages here as this post would be too long.—She is the daughter of Kosem Sultan, and her full siblings are: Mehmed, Ayse, Hanzade, Murad (IV), Suleyman, and Ibrahim (I). She lived a long life and lived well into Mehmed IV’s reign, the eldest son of her youngest brother Ibrahim. Speaking of Ibrahim, Fatma Sultan shares her name with one of Ibrahim’s daughters, Fatma Sultan the younger.

⭐️Evliya Celebi’s male centered account of Melek Ahmed Pasha’s marriage to Fatma Sultan

In the first part of this post, I would like to talk about Evliya Celebi’s account of Melek Ahmed Pasha’s marriage to Fatma Sultan, daughter of Ahmed I. Please keep in mind that Evliya Celebi is a storyteller, his stories are very compelling, but they are also partly fictional and it can be hard to tell which part of his stories are based on historical facts. In my personal opinion, he also has a pretty male-centered approach to these marriages between Pashas and Ottoman Princesses: According to Evliya Celebi, Fatma Sultan is “old, wrinkled, and financially greedy” whereas Melek Ahmed Pasha’s previous royal wife Kaya Sultan, daughter of Murad IV, was “young, dutiful, a virgin when she met her husband”, their relationship was an ideal romance in Evliya’s eyes, and Kaya Sultan even performed the utmost sacrifice a woman could provide in her marriage by dying in childbirth. Kaya is young and low maintenance, whereas Fatma is old and very demanding.

Here is Evliya Celebi’s account of Melek Ahmed Pasha and Fatma Sultan’s union:

In November 1661, while on campaign, Melek Ahmed Pasha found himself in an arranged marriage orchestrated by Grand Vizier Köprülü Mehmed Pasha, he was married to Fatma Sultan, the daughter of Sultan Ahmed, Fatma Sultan was seventy-seven years old at the time. ➡️ (❌Fatma Sultan was actually in her early 50’s at the time)

Meanwhile, Köprülü Mehmed Pasha passed away and his son, Fazıl Ahmed Pasha became his successor. In his own words, Köprülü Mehmed Pasha had bequeathed “the state’s elephant” to Melek Ahmed Pasha. The state’s elephant, that is, Fatma Sultan, a burden that was extremely difficult to satisfy. ➡️ (❌Köprülü Mehmed Pasha was the type of person who would use this “elephant” analogy, but Evliya Çelebi also has a male centered view around these Princess-Pasha marriages)

Shortly after this marriage—which was, in essence, never consummated—Melek Ahmed Pasha passed away. Although Fatma Sultan sought to seize nearly all of Melek Ahmed Pasha’s estate as her mehr, Fazıl Ahmed Pasha prevented this. Melek Ahmed Pasha left 1,000 gold pieces each to his son Ibrahim and his daughter Fatma. According to Evliya Çelebi, 40,000 or 50,000 people attended Melek Ahmed Pasha’s funeral.

According to Evliya, Melek Ahmed Pasha compared being married to Fatma sultan to being tormented:

“My friend, let this stay between us, even the prisoners in Malta never suffered the torment I endured on this wedding night! What a shameless, immoral, and wasteful woman she is!” On their very first night, Melek Ahmed Pasha speaks of Fatma Sultan’s disrespectful behavior toward him.
“I went up to her and kissed her hand”

“Though she was a senile old woman who had divorced twelve husbands, she acted like a virgin in full bloom” ➡️ ❌Melek Ahmed Pasha wasn’t a young man himself either!

According to Evliya Celebi, Fatma Sultan’s first words to Melek Ahmed Pasha were: “My dear Pasha, if you want to get along with me, I have 15 keses in expenses every month. Every year, I need a supply of firewood equivalent to six Marmara-sized ships.” As Fatma Sultan listed her other expenses, more than 300 of her servants kept coming up to kiss his hand and ask for tips.

Fatma Sultan said that she had approximately 300 domestic staff, and on top of that there were just as many freed women and their families living outside of her palace. The total number is 700 people. She requested from Melek Ahmed Pasha the annual expenses for all of their clothing, as well as the annual salaries for the cook, the steward, the lords, and their servants.

In response, Melek Ahmed Pasha said that none of her demands would be feasible without oppressing the people and forcibly seizing their property. “I can bear the expenses of the late Kaya Sultan, but I do not have the means to cover these expenses which are about five times as much compared to Kaya Sultan’s expenses!”

Fatma Sultan said, “My dear Pasha, do you compare me to someone like Kaya Sultan? She is my brother’s daughter. I am the daughter of Sultan Ahmed Han. Look at this slave of my father’s! he dares to equate me with Kaya Sultan!”

Melek Ahmed Pasha replied: “Forgive me, my Sultan! How could I ever compare you to Kaya Sultan? You, my lady, are the daughter of Ahmed Han, a 77-year-old (!) old woman (❌Again, Fatma Sultan was in her early fifties at the time). You’ve lived a long life, seen many faces (as in insinuating that she is NOT a virgin), and you are now left with only 12 husbands.” According to Evliya, Melek Ahmed Pasha went on to compare Kaya Sultan with Fatma Sultan, saying that Fatma Sultan was “wrinkled.” ➡️ ❌It is basically impossible for a royal groom to say such things to Fatma Sultan. Again, this is most likely Evliya’s exaggeration. Evliya Celebi criticizes the cost of these imperial marriages at the expense of Fatma Sultan. In another example, when he was recounting Mehmed III executing his 19 brothers, he strictly refrains from shifting any blame to the male Sultan, so it’s interesting how he openly criticized a female member of the royal family..

Melek Ahmed Pasha continued: “While I was on the campaign in Erdel and had no idea about this marriage, I was apparently given your hand in marriage in Istanbul! The news of the wedding reached me in Erdel! Just as I was rejoicing that I’d been spared the expenses of Kaya Sultan, the late Köprülü Mehmed Pasha had married you off, to me!
Köprülü Mehmed Pasha had said, ‘I gave Melek an elephant, he better take care of it!’ Then he died!” ➡️ ❌ elephant here is a financial analogy, marriages to Ottoman Princesses could be costly for their husbands.

We (Fatma Sultan and Melek Ahmed Pasha) argued fiercely until morning. It was neither a wedding night nor any other kind of night. (No consummation happened.) Finally, I said, “My Sultan, take all the expenses you mentioned. May God take my life before I ever come here again.”

According to Evliya, Melek Ahmed Pasha wept, saying, “I will never set foot in Fatma Sultan’s palace again, and God willing, I will never even see her face again.”

🦋🦋🦋

⭐️ Fatma Sultan the “Elephant of the State”: The transfer of wealth from high ranking Pashas

Fatma Sultan was subject to negative rumors in Ottoman society because she had been married many times. The source of her wealth was not only her stipend and revenues as a female member of the Ottoman dynasty, but it can also be attributed to the transfer of wealth from her many husbands. The government reclaimed the property that had accumulated in the hands of the pashas through these marriages, in this sense, the marriage between a princess and pasha could be seen as a financial policy. Köprülü allegedly addressed her as “the elephant of the state” because in the Ottoman Empire, marrying an Ottoman princess was a very costly endeavor for prospective grooms.

Fatma Sultan valued her appearance, she enjoyed elegance and luxury and her financial status allowed her to treat herself to such luxuries. In her daily life, she owned small containers in which she kept her decorative items.

Through her marriages to high ranking officials, Fatma Sultan not only amassed great wealth but also, gained the ability to influence the administrative decisions of the central government. The extent of her wealth as recorded in the estate inventory cannot be explained solely by her income and revenues as a female member of the dynasty. It is certain that the mehr she received from her husbands contributed to her wealth.

The total wealth recorded in Fatma Sultan’s estate was 7,277,549 akçe.
Of this wealth, 2 million akçe consisted of real estate, nearly 3 million akçe of household goods, and slightly over 2,300,000 akçe of jewelry.
Source: Gokhan Civelek and İbrahim Etem Çakır

The revenues of the Manastır district, which had been under Fatma Sultan’s control, was transferred to Haseki Gülnus Sultan beginning in March 1671. We can assume Fatma Sultan had passed away in that year.

🦋🦋🦋

⭐️ What happened to Melek Ahmed Pasha?

Melek Ahmed Pasha was appointed Beylerbey of Bosnia in 1659 and successfully repelled the Venetians who invaded the Bosnian province in 1660. On November 15, 1660, he was transferred to the Rumelia province.

While spending the winter in Belgrade, Melek Ahmed Pasha was married off to Fatma Sultan; he was informed by a decree that he had been married and must return to Istanbul immediately. Upon returning to Istanbul, he was taken straight to the bridal chamber. After serving in the Divan for three months, Melek Ahmed Pasha passed away (1662).

Source:

Evliya Celebi’nin seyahatnamesi

İhtiras ve Servetin Gölgesinde Bir Sultan: Fatma Sultan, Gökhan Civelek, İbrahim Etem Çakır

My posts about Evliya Celebi:

Evliya Celebi’s recount of the fratricide of Murad III’s sons https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/wK57wHtbHR

Kaya Sultan’s death according to Evliya Celebi https://www.reddit.com/r/MagnificentCentury/s/NHSutBJRT0

https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/E23vCETJ0g

Summary: from the information I’ve found down below, I’ve come to the conclusion that by 1523, Suleyman has three surviving sisters of marriageable age: Sehzade Sultan (also known as Hanimsultan/Hatice Sultan) Beyhan Sultan and Sah Sultan. Sah Sultan is his half sister. I haven’t been able to piece together a life trajectory for Fatma Sultan except for her plea about her homosexual husband because Kara Ahmed Pasha’s wife is not Suleyman’s sister, it’s a different Fatma Hanimsultan.

🦋The entry dated March 8, 1523, in the “İn'âmât Defteri” records indicates that Şah Sultan and Şehzade Sultan were siblings of Sultan Suleyman and another entry dated March 10, 1523, also mentions a sister named Beyhan Sultan. (Wife of Ferhad Pasha)

🦋The entry “Vâlide-i mezkûr Şah Sultan” also reveals that Şah Sultan’s unnamed mother was still alive in 1523. Şah Sultan’s (Lutfi Pasha’s wife) mother was not Hafsa Hatun.

🦋Sah Sultan had a different mother: Hafsa Hatun, the mother of Sultan Suleyman, first received a gift package (bohça) in 1512 the year Yavuz Sultan Selim ascended the throne. It appears that these gifts continued to be given in 1513 and 1515&1516 as well. The fact that the 1523 records of gifts mention that a gift was given to the mother of Sultan Suleyman’s sister Sah Sultan, without mentioning her mother’s name, suggests that their mothers were different.

🦋Archival records for “Hanimsultan’s” marriage to İskender Pasha (note that “Hanimsultan” is a title for an imperial princess, I’ll explain why I think this princess is Sehzade Sultan/Hatice Sultan):
For Selim’s “berây-ı harc-ı cihâz-ı duhter-i hod” (the dowry of his daughters to be married), without specifying the daughters’ names, Sultan Bayezid II sent 500,000 akça on March 6, 1507, and 40,000 akça in cash along with various valuable fabrics were sent on August 25, 1509.
Another record dated August 31, 1509 reveals Hanimsultan’s wedding invitation “berây-ı arûs-ı mübârek” and mentions Selim Bey, the sanjak-bey of Trabzon, and his son Süleyman. Archival records also reveal that various gifts were sent from the imperial capital in 1509, 1510, 1511, and 1512 for Selim’s daughter “Hanım Sultan” who was married to İskender Bey (Pasha), who served first as the sanjak-bey of Eğriboz and later as that of Gelibolu.

🦋Venetian sources record that when İskender Pasha, who was married to Selim’s daughter, was killed in 1515, his wife was remarried to Mustafa Pasha. In the 1529 in’âm records, it is noted that Mustafa Pasha’s wife was Şehzade Sultan. Therefore we could assume this Hanimsultan was Sehzade Sultan herself.

(Edit: Hanimsultan, Sehzade Sultan and Hatice Sultan seem like three separate women, but to me they all appear to be the same person.)

🦋Uzuncarsili suggests Iskender Pasha had three sons and one daughter—Mehmed Shah, Osman Shah, Süleyman Bey, and Nefise Hatun with Hanimsultan. —who is likely Sehzade Sultan. (Hanimsultan is a title for imperial princesses, Suleyman’s daughter Mihrimah also used this title in her letters)

🦋According to a record dated May 6th 1505 Sultan Bayezid II sent his son Selim 300,000 akça in cash and valuable fabrics for his son’s (Suleyman) circumcision ceremony.

Gifts were also sent to the circumcised son (Suleyman), Selim’s mother (who died shortly after that date), Suleyman’s mother (Hafsa Hatun), Selim’s daughter, and his daughter’s mother (another consort, could be Sah’s mother?). Since no other mother is mentioned, it’s safe to assume Sehzade/Hanimsultan/Hatice’s mother is Hafsa Hatun because Hanimsultan got married in 1509 and no other mother was given gifts according to this record.

Although the document does not specify which one of Selim’s sons was circumcised, since there is no record of Selim having any other living sons at that time, we can assume that the circumcision ceremony was held for Prince Süleyman. (Kaya Sahin likely used the same primary sources for his work “Peerless amongst Princes”)

🦋Therefore, it is likely that Şehzade Sultan, Beyhan Sultan, and Sultan Suleiman were born to the same mother, which is Hafsa Hatun. If the information provided by the Venetian ambassadors is correct, it is possible that Şehzade Sultan, who was married to İskender Pasha, was Sultan Suleiman’s full sister. However more information is certainly needed.

🦋All of this information reveals that in 1523, Sultan Süleyman had only three sisters of marriageable age: Şah Sultan, Şehzade Sultan (also called Hanimsultan), and Beyhan Sultan. Beyhan and Sehzade (Hanimsultan) Sultans are likely Hafsa Hatun’s daughters and Suleyman’s full sisters.

🦋 Kaya Sahin mentions a young princess named Kamersah in his work “Peerless amongst Princes”: “Suleyman was around eight at the time of his half-sister Kamerşah's death in 1503 and ten at his grandmother Gülbahar's death. The causes of these deaths are unknown. Kamerşah's death may have been due to a serious illness or a contagious disease that may have threatened the entire family. Indeed, Selim wrote in haste to Constantinople to ask for a physician a few months before his daughter's death, and one was quickly dispatched to Trabzon.”

🩵

Bragadin in his 1526 report, mentions a Mustafa Pasha that is married to one of Suleyman’s sisters. This is the husband of Suleyman’s sister Sehzade Sultan (also known as Hanimsultan):

“The other pasha, named Mustafa, is 48 years old. He is of Albanian descent, elderly, and suffers from gout; he is bedridden for 8 out of every 12 months of the year due to his illness. He is a wise man and also the sultan’s brother-in-law, as he is married to the sultan’s sister. His sister had previously been married to Bostancı Pasha. The sultan’s father, [Yavuz Sultan] Selim, had Bostancı Pasha beheaded after he declared war on the Sufi [Safavid Shah] in Tabriz. It is said that he is one of our principality’s old friends; a somewhat disorganized, lustful man who drinks wine, a handsome man, very humane, talks a lot about state affairs, and has 700 slaves. He has an income of 70,000 ducats. He has money, but he is tight-fisted. He owns a great deal of jewelry. He has been to Cairo. It is said that when the sultan sent him from Rhodes to Egypt, he made a great deal of money there but sent none of it to the state. For this reason, the sultan was forced to recall him from Egypt.”

🩵

About Fatma Sultan and Kara Ahmed Pasha’s marriage: Eda Öner has done a masters thesis about Kara Ahmed Pasha in 2024, and found out that his wife Fatma Sultan is actually a Fatma Hanimsultan, a granddaughter of Beyazid II. Kara Ahmed Pasha was promoted to Grand Vizierate after Rustem Pasha’s dismissal.

The marriage of Janissary aghas to a Sultan’s granddaughters, called the “hanım sultans”, was a common practice in the 16th century.
I’ve also found out about Rustem Pasha possibly contemplating on marrying off his daughter Ayse Sultan (born to Mihrimah Sultan in 1547) to Ahmed Agha when he was a janissary Agha. —he’s known as Semiz Ahmed Pasha in his later years. https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/zGzr8FFcdV

Kara Ahmed Agha (later Kara Ahmed Pasha) indeed married a woman named Fatma. However, by going through Istanbul Kadi registers, Eda Öner found out the misconception that Kara Ahmed Pasha’s wife Fatma was the daughter of Selim I and the sister of Sultan Suleyman to be incorrect.

This is because in two shari’a court records—written after Kara Ahmed Pasha’s execution and indicating that he had freed four of his slaves during his lifetime—his wife is listed as “Fatma Sultan, daughter of Mustafa Bey.” Based on this, it is understood that Fatma Sultan’s father was not Sultan Selim I, but that she was related to the dynasty through her mother, who was married to a man named Mustafa Bey.

Said register:
Istanbul Qadi Registers 41: Balat Court Register No. 1 (h. 964–965 / m. 1557–1558)

Edit: This is not to say Selim I didn’t have a daughter named Fatma Sultan, but Eda Oner’s paper above definitely debunks that Kara Ahmed Pasha’s wife is a Fatma Hanimsultan, Beyazid II’s daughter, and not Selim I’s daughter. This is also important to know because when I first started studying Ottoman history I thought Hürrem Sultan had clashed with one of Suleyman’s sisters, and now we see that it was actually a granddaughter of Beyazid II.

That said, so much of Beyazid II and Selim I’s family records seem intertwined that we need more research on this matter. And except for a letter presented by Cagatay Ulucay, I couldn’t find a lot of information on her.

Source:

Eda Oner, Kara Ahmed Paşa

M. Hanefi Bostan, Yavuz Sultan Selim’in Sehzadelik Dönemi

İsmail Hakkı Uzuncarsili, Yavuz Sultan Selim'in Kızı Hanım Sultan ve Torunu Kara Osman Şah Bey Vakfiyeleri

Kaya Şahin, Peerless amongst Princes

İpşirli Argıt, Rabia Gülnuş Emetullah Sultan, “A Queen-mother and the Ottoman Imperial Harem”.

Betül İpşirli Argıt has demonstrated that Gülnuş Sultan, the mother of Mustafa II and Ahmed III was in fact another Valide Sultan of great importance in the late 17th and 18th centuries.

According to Betül İpşirli Argıt, upon Turhan Sultan’s death in 1683, Gülnuş became the sole authority in the Imperial Harem, and her political power and influence only grew bolder under the sultanates of her two sons, despite the political instability and depositions of both of her sons. (She would pass away before her second son Ahmed III was deposed)

Indeed, from 1695 until her death in 1715, Gülnuş Sultan acted as one of the chief royal advisors, a power-broker in contemporary court politics as well as a key intermediary agent of diplomacy, as exemplified by her personal involvement and correspondence in the traffic of the diplomatic relations and negotiations during the so-called Great Northern War between Russia and Sweden (King Charles XII of Sweden fled to the Ottoman Empire in 1709 and he worked aggressively to persuade Sultan Ahmed III to attack Tsar Peter the Great) —a conflict to which the Ottoman Empire was drawn as an ally of Swedish. (Explained in great detail in Dilek Seniha Cenez’s work: 18. Yüzyılda bir devlet adamı: Çorlulu Ali Paşa)

She authored the definitive study "A Queen Mother and the Ottoman Imperial Harem: Rabia Gülnuş Emetullah Valide Sultan (1640–1715)", published in the Oxford University Press volume Concubines and Courtesans: Women and Slavery in Islamic History.

Her research challenges the narrative that female political power in the Ottoman Empire sharply declined after the mid 17th century after Turhan Sultan, and Gülnus was another key figure of the "Sultanate of Women". By analyzing the life of Rabia Gülnuş Emetullah, she demonstrates that late 17th and early 18th century Ottoman Valide Sultans continued to possess extraordinary social, architectural, and political authority.

According to Ispirli Argit, Gülnus was deeply involved in state affairs, acting as a critical bridge between her sons and the imperial court. She used her alliances to influence the appointments and dismissals of Grand Viziers and other high-ranking officials. Gülnus did not shy away from international relations, going as far as corresponding directly with foreign statesmen and rulers during major conflicts like the Great Northern War.

She channeled vast amounts of personal wealth into large-scale charitable endowments (waqfs). This included funding hospitals, mosques, and soup kitchens not just in Istanbul, but also along the pilgrimage route to Mecca and Medina.

Muzaffer Özgüleş has accordingly dubbed her “one of the most influential of Ottoman royal women”, due to her prolonged prestige and standing as Haseki and Valide Sultan.

Gülnüş Sultan was not the first Ottoman imperial woman to build a hospital in Makkah, following in the footsteps of another haseki, Hürrem Sultan. However, unlike Hurrem Sultan, Gülnüş Sultan’s dar al-shifa (hospital) in 1679 is less popular.

Historian Muzaffer Özgüleş dedicated his 2017 book “Female Patronage and the Architectural Legacy of Gülnuş Sultan” to Gülnuş Sultan.

Baltacı Mehmed Pasha: Gülnus was a key supporter of his. During his tenure, she directly received and reviewed letters regarding his military campaigns and political standing. Baltaci Mehmed Pasha (1704–1706, 1710–1711) famously led the Ottoman forces to a major victory over Peter the Great during the Prut River Campaign in 1711. He successfully encircled the Russian army, forcing Russia to return the fortress of Azov.

Merve Karacay Turkal, The Dismissal process of Baltaci Mehmed Pasha and the Letter sent to Valide Gülnus Sultan

Çorlulu Ali Pasha: Supported by the Valide Gülnus Sultan until his downfall, he was Ahmed III's chosen Grand Vizier early in the reign, managing the treasury and stabilizing the government. Appointed early in Ahmed's reign, he was instrumental in reorganizing the treasury, stabilizing the government against rival factions, and managing early diplomatic relations with Sweden and Europe.

Dilek Seniha Cenez, 18. Yüzyılda bir devlet adamı: Çorlulu Ali Paşa (1706-1710)

I didn’t want this comment of mine about Mehmed, the “peerless amongst princes”, remain in the comments section 😇

Here’s a letter from Mehmed addressed to his father Suleyman:

“My mother (Hurrem) is well, but she weeps day and night because of your separation. Conditions in the city are favorable for now. …Hayreddin Pasha defeated the enemy, captured 180 galleys, and sank the rest at sea. My sultan, I am reading the second chapter of the Manevi”

About the book Manevi Mehmed was reading: Mevlânâ Jalâl al-Dîn al-Rûmî’s most famous work, the Mesnevi-yi Manevi, is a six-volume collection. According to general consensus, the work was begun between 1258 and 1261 and completed between 1260 and 1267.

⭐️Mehmed mentioned Hayreddin Pasha here. After Oruç's death, Hızır Hayreddin Pasha consolidated his power, captured Algiers, and was officially appointed Grand Admiral by Suleyman the Magnificent in 1533.

⭐️Suleyman was away from the capital between 1533-35: The Irakeyn Campaign, launched by Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent against the Safavids between 1533 and 1535, was one of the Ottoman Empire’s largest and longest-running military operations in the East. Targeting the two main regions of Iraq (Irak-ı Acem and Irak-ı Arab), the most significant turning point of this campaign occurred with the capture of Baghdad on November 28, 1534.

Therefore I date back this letter to this period. Mehmed was only around 12 year old here and already reading literature masterpieces. He was a smart fella.

The saddest part is, the construction of Mehmed’s Mosque complex and Mihrimah’s Mosque complex were started around the same time, which is immediately after his death. Two siblings’ mosques, on each coast of Istanbul… only one of the eldest siblings remained on this Earth after 1543 ☹️☹️☹️

About the construction of their mosques please check down below:
https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/W4Z5KOzG2f

Episode 138 is one of the most tragic episodes in Magnificent Century, as we watch Beyazid’s sons being executed in front of him by Selim’s men. Beyazid’s final words are not the type of words a person can easily stomach: "Yüzyıllar geçse bile hainlikle, sarhoşlukla anılacaksın!" screams a defeated Beyazid. (“Even after many centuries, you will be remembered for your treachery and drunkenness!” in English)

As Beyazid breaks through the “fourth wall”, an invisible barrier in film between the viewers and actors, he blinks at our modern perception of Selim.—convincing us, who now live in modern day after some centuries later, that Selim is the evil one undeserving of his throne.

The reality is different. Neither Selim was as drunk and incompetent as the slander against him suggests, nor Beyazid was this misunderstood Prince who was constantly wronged by his older brother and cast aside by his own father.

In Costantino Garzoni’s 1573 relazione, the Venetian senator in the legate of Bailo Marcantonio Barbaro reports:

>>”Selim leaves the management of the state and the faring of wars in the hands of Grand Vizier Mehmet Pasha, although the latter would never put into effect any act of great consequence without consulting with the Grand Signore.”

Some more details about Selim actually being a competent Sultan who simply didn’t comply to 16th century social norms can be found here
https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/kRLVWzfTkf

Beyazid on the other hand, challenged Suleyman’s patience over and over again after his mom Hurrem Sultan’s passing, gathered paid troops, refused to move to his newly assigned provincial position in Amasya, and the subsequent Battle of Princes in Konya & Beyazid’s rebellion can even be tied to future Celali rebellions as I explained here: https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/FqoKgelSv0

(Also the English translation of a letter from Mihrimah to her father Suleyman written during the period Beyazid refused to move to Amasya can be found here https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/rwdmK3d3SX Mihrimah was quite shocked at his behavior unlike how she’s portrayed in MC and had a more stabilizing role between her two brothers. I’ve summarized the Konya Battle of Princes here https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/MAUSIWXPfj )

His 30.000 armed man turned into a large, armed mass of bandits in Anatolia which posed a threat in the second half of 16th century. This was NOT the sole reason of Celali rebellions of course, but it was one of them, and as a result so many innocent Anatolian villagers suffered as these bandits SA’d and looted people. There are reports of women and children being SA’d by these bandits in kadi records.

This Battle of Princes was such a turning point in Ottoman History starting from this period only the eldest prince was assigned a Sanjakbey position. —not by choice during Selim II’s reign of course, as his other sons than Murad (III) were simply too young to be assigned provincial positions.

There are still traces of these Celali rebellions in Anatolia today if we dig deep enough, so I find it a bit ironic for Beyazid to tell Selim that he will be remembered as the traitor even after many centuries pass..

This also makes me think of the Ottoman Interregnum (fetret devri). Fratricide was a horrible practice, but it seems there was simply no other way of preventing civil war and fratricide was seen as a contemporary solution of preventing the suffering of thousands of innocent civilians by sacrificing a few. Still incredibly tragic, but what I’m trying to say is that there is more nuance to this situation than “omg evil Ottomans murdering their own princes!!”

I still find Murad III’s non stop fathering of children incredibly irresponsible tho. He should have stopped himself after a few healthy spare princes.

I’m just thinking, the ramifications of Beyazid’s rebellion are overshadowed by this supposed ugly duckling of the family story. Even Pecevi later criticized Beyazid and said, “perhaps his circumcision ceremony was cut short because the God didn’t intend a festive ceremony for a rebellious Prince”. (Comparing his ceremony to his older brother’s, which was longer) I actually find Beyazid’s rebellion even more treacherous than Prince Mustafa’s open acceptance of love and adoration from Janissaries, because Beyazid had lived through an example of “the execution of Mustafa”. Mustafa on the other hand, might have thought he would be next Sultan anyway as usually it’s the oldest Prince who gets the throne except for Selim I’s example (Suleyman’s father) and Suleyman was in poor health some time before his execution.

Bragadin’s 1526 report describes the close friendship of Sultan Suleyman and Ibrahim Pasha:

“Ibrahim is the Sultan’s right hand man. He does whatever the Sultan asks, and the Sultan does nothing without consulting him—nor does Ibrahim. Ibrahim is from Parga; he has no children. He is a frail man, with a small face, pale, not very tall, kind-hearted, eloquent, and entertaining.

…

He loves to have fun and really enjoys having novels read to him. He reads books about the life of Alexander the Great, Hannibal, wars, and history. He composes music with an Iranian musician at the palace.

…

The Sultan loves him dearly and cannot do without him; he often stays at the palace by the Sultan’s side, and they even sleep in beds with their heads touching. Every day, the Sultan writes important tasks to him with his own hand and sends them via a mute messenger. Ibrahim Pasha also records all the tasks that are carried out. Suleyman cannot live without Ibrahim Pasha.

…

Sultan Suleyman had a beautiful palace built for them (Ibrahim and Muhsine Hatun), but the Janissaries ransacked it a bit. It was later repaired. He has a wife but no children; his mother and two brothers live in the palace. His mother, who has embraced Islam, lives in a room next to his and provides great assistance to the Christians. His father has a Sanjak in Parga, which has a revenue of 2,000 ducats a year.

In the past, everyone used to hate him, but now that they’ve seen how much the Sultan loves him, everyone is trying to befriend him—including the Sultan’s mother*, his wife (Hurrem), and the other two Pashas. (*This is interesting because in one of his letters to his wife Muhsine Hatun, Ibrahim mentions that Muhsine had formerly turned down invitations from Hafsa Hatun to visit Imperial Palace and she even refused to attend the circumcision ceremony of a Prince.)

No one ever opposes him on any matter. That is why he can do whatever he wants. He is very loyal to his Sultan. He enjoys receiving gifts in public, but he never accepts any gifts in secret.”

The report by Secretary Daniello De Ludovisi read in the Senate on June 3, 1534 however, contained much harsher words about Ibrahim and mentioned the execution of Ferhad Pasha, and Ibrahim’s dispute with Rüstem…
This may be related to the failure of the 1529 Siege of Vienna and Ibrahim’s eventual fall out of favor.

Suleyman can be described as a man who had favorites and enjoyed devoting most of his private time to his favorites. He had a favorite consort: Hurrem, a favorite friend: Ibrahim and a favorite son: Mehmed.

Bragadin also recounts the story of Sultan Suleyman eating together with Ibrahim and Prince Mustafa getting offended and throwing a childish fit because his father eats everyday “with his slave”.

I previously had talked about the “Sultans eat alone” custom in Ottoman Empire here https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/s/pLaxlFGsKi

Even if I haven’t seen any direct reports or dispatches mentioning Suleyman ate together with Hurrem and his family, and breaking the custom of Mehmed the conqueror, it’s very likely that he broke that tradition—he was also reported to be “spending every night at the harem with the same woman” early in their relationship, who is inarguably Hurrem, so my educated guess is Suleyman ate together with Hurrem and possibly their children on many occasions.

One more thing I’d like to mention is, each Sultan’s reign is pretty unique, and the more I study Ottoman history, the more I realize we should take general Islamic rules or Ottoman customs with a grain of salt and focus on contemporary reports and sources. Not that these rules or customs don’t have any significance but Sultans keep surprising me in many ways. I’ve become increasingly wary of making assumptions about a certain period based on the rules and customs of another period, depends on the occasion of course, but it’s definitely something to keep an eye on.

Edit: Since some of you guys are wondering if this relationship between them was anything more than just close friendship, I personally don’t think so. I think it was just Ibrahim keeping his Hasodabasi (head of the privy chamber) traditions even after being promoted to Grand Vizier position in an unprecedented way.

I think, this close friendship was probably seen as a breach of security by bystanders over anything else. Sultan Suleyman is the most vulnerable during eating and sleep, and him allowing Ibrahim into his personal space means he 100% trusts him with his life which is a bit risky given that Ibrahim had amassed considerable power on his own as a Grand Vizier.

However, Hasodabaşı (head of privy chamber, Ibrahim’s former position) was a position that required responsibility over Sultan’s personal care, assisting the Sultan with dressing and undressing during official ceremonies, daily life and managing his personal living space. Dressing the Sultan is quite an important task because Hasodabasi needs to make sure the Sultan is safe, his clothes are clean and safe etc. When Ibrahim was Has Odabaşı he probably overtook those tasks, so I don’t really think it’s odd for him to have an intimate, personal connection with the Sultan and be very close to him physically at the time. (I really don’t think it’s anything sexual honestly)

After he was promoted to Grand Vizier in an unprecedented way tho, this close friendship was probably no longer seen appropriate. It seems like Ibrahim just climbed up the career ladder a bit too fast and couldn’t leave behind his Hasodabasi ways even after being promoted to Grand Vizierate.

Are you guys going to watch this? This is an upcoming drama called Aşk ve Taht, which means Love and Throne. It is going to air in September/October. Produced by Mehmet Bozdağ (Diriliş Ertuğrul, Kuruluş Osman, Kuruluş Orhan).

The series will be similar to MY and it will focus on the Anatolian Seljuk State during the reign of Sultan Alaeddin Keykubad I (also known as Alâeddin Keykubat or Büyük Keykubad), one of the most powerful and successful rulers who brought the state to its golden age (Kanuni of Seljuks) And it is going to focus on his two prominent wives Mahpari Hunat Hatun and Melike Hatun. Apparently, these two women were Mahidevran and Hürrem 2.0, but with a very different ending to their rivalry.

It is going to be directed by Taylan Brothers (MY directors). The scenario is written by the team behind Diriliş Ertuğrul, Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu, Mehmed: Fetihler Sultanı and Kudüs Fatihi Selahaddin Eyyubi...

Has anyone come across the author Maurice Flesier who claims that this is the possible grave of Ibrahim?(2022 Pic 1)
which contradicts another author who claims that this is the resting place of Ibrahim Pasha (pic2- 2017)
Are both of these claims true? do we really know if that is his grave or only assumptions?

🦋In the second half of the 16th century, the institutional structure of the Ottoman Empire began to deteriorate, the madrasas were also affected by this decline. Madrasas (educational institutions) admitted more students than they could accommodate, and students graduated without the necessary qualifications. The graduates turned into rebels/bandits after not being able find employment. Over time, these “suhte” bandit groups evolved into units of hundreds or even thousands, and turned the lives of innocent Anatolian villagers into living hell by forming illegal forces. There were cases of SA’s against women and children :( it’s also interesting how these men were educated in Islamic arts in the Madrasa, but ended up looting and SA’ing people, which is strictly against Islamic values.

🦋The population growth experienced in the 16th-century Ottoman Empire was also one of the major causes of the social and financial crisis. In particular, the increase in the population in Anatolia led to a rise in the number of people without shelter, land, or work, which in turn caused the formation of gangs, an increase in banditry and looting, and major hardships for farmers. So, this crisis had strictly economic reasons.

🦋The state was aware of the consequences: Ottoman Empire’s economy was mostly based on animal husbandry and agriculture, and if the production in the villages were affected by these bandits, it would affect the whole empire. Military precautions were taken in Suleyman’s and Selim II’s period.

🦋The WORST wave of Celali rebellions happened during Murad III’s period, but these rebellions rooted back to Suleyman’s reign:

⭐️⭐️The constant campaigns against Safavid Empire and Austria, and problems with sipahi forces

⭐️⭐️Düzmece Mustafa incident—a false Prince Mustafa appeared after Prince Mustafa’s execution

⭐️⭐️Prince Bayezid’s rebellion and his escape to Safavid Empire, 30,000 soldiers joined him. A large, armed mass in Anatolia posed a threat in the second half of 16th century. (Honestly, Beyazid caused so much harm to the empire by his rebellious behavior, and the ramifications of his rebellion continued through decades)

⭐️⭐️Groups of bandits of “Sipahi” (Turkish men of Anatolian origin, as opposed to Devşirme class from the Balkans that didn’t have Anatolian roots) and “Sekban” origin joined those rebels, along with medrese students known as “suhte”. They were bandits spread across all the provinces of Anatolia, raided villages and towns, forcibly collecting food and money, and killing residents who resisted them.
(When these sipahis and sekbans are turned into bandits who loot and attack villages they’re now called “Celali” rebels if this is confusing)

🦋Unlike his father Selim II and his grandfather Sultan Suleyman, Murad III tried to have a more peaceful approach to those bandits: He attempted to negotiate with these rebels. He pardoned them at some point, but realized that the bandits continued to pillage the villages.

Murad III might have believed that he could solve the issue through a more diplomatic approach, and with military force if necessary but he didn’t take the necessary measures to address the root cause of the issue: He failed to implement reforms regarding those Madrasas (educational institutions) where those bandits and rebels were once educated in. Some corrupt local statesmen would turn a blind eye to those rebels. Things got so bad, there was no safety of life or property for those living in rural areas.

🦋The third and ABSOLUTELY WORST wave of the Celali Rebellions began in the late 16th century during Murad III’s reign. The prolonged wars placed a heavy burden on the treasury, in 1586, the devaluation of money happened, and the silver content of the akçe was reduced by 44 percent. (The silver that European merchants had begun bringing into the Ottoman Empire in 16th century had created a surplus of silver and began to disrupt the Ottoman domestic market.)

The resulting inflation cut the people’s purchasing power nearly in half. These rebellions continued into his son Mehmed III’s reign.

The long Ottoman-Iranian War (1578–1590) and the Ottoman-Austrian War (1593–1606) certainly didn’t help. During Haçova battle (1596) against the Austrians, a large number of “tımarlı sipahis” who had lost their estates crossed over to Anatolia and joined the Celalis. Some of the population had taken refuge in nearby safe cities and towns to escape the Celali raids. Anatolia was brought into further chaos.

🦋The “Sekban” unit had replaced the Sipahis, but they also joined the bandits when they found themselves unemployed during peacetime. Their numbers had reached 25,000 to 30,000. The Great Celali Rebellions began after the Battle of Haçova in 1596 as I explained above, the battle was personally commanded by Sultan Mehmed III.—a stark difference to his father Murad III who rarely left his residence.

Under the leadership of Karayazıcı Abdülhalim, the Celalis became quite dangerous. Karayazıcı gathered groups of deserters who did not want to go to war. Starting in 1598, they began attacking towns and cities. They established control over Central Anatolia and the Maraş region. After Karayazıcı’s death in 1602, they spread throughout
all of Anatolia.

In the summer of 1608, the Ottoman Army, led by Kuyucu Murat Pasha, put an end to the Celali uprisings. Kuyucu Murat Pasha’s campaign against the bandits eliminated the remaining Celali rebels.

Source:
Mustafa Akdağ
Selaniki

Hi, girls, boys and theys, how are you guys going?

I already mention my superficial research of the end of the SoW — end of Turhan's Valide tenure and Emetullah's life — 'cause I don't want to resemble any original historical figure in my characters, but I got myself questioning other thing again; do we have any valuable information about Ibrahim's Haseki's, specially Saliha Dilaşub and Muazzez (the only ones I deal in my book, but with other names)? I read about Dilaşub, the third Haseki, being granted a lot of properties and she, apparently, had the highest salary?

And Ibrahim's daughters? I know most of them got married young (obviously), but do we know with whom? How were they lives?

(Image just to get attention to this beautiful woman I want to know more about)

Summary: it sounds a bit unrealistic to me that Selim tried to poison his sole heir Suleyman with a poisonous kaftan. Selim I worked to improve the territories and treasury of Ottoman Empire and it would be a fatal mistake to execute his sole adult heir and put the dynastic continuation at risk. These rumors were likely based on Selim I’s own personal experience with his father Beyazid and his competition with his brother Ahmed, giving him the reputation of a bloodthirsty man because he got the throne despite not being the eldest prince.

Let’s look at Suleyman’s princely years to analyze his relationship with his father:

🩵Selim I is declared padişah semi officially on April 24th 1512 (7 Safar 918 Friday)

🩵Selim I’s first job was to pursue his brother Ahmed and his sons who had a power base in Anatolia

🩵Selim I immediately sent a letter to Caffa and invited his son Suleyman to the capital. Selim I informed the Crimean Khan that he was now the Sultan of Ottoman Empire and requested his son Süleyman be sent to Istanbul to guard the city.
A Venetian letter dated June 18th 1512 from Ragusa, reported the departure of the armada kept at Caffa to Istanbul.

🩵Suleyman is greeted on the shores of Üsküdar with canon fires. The city was in a festive mood spreading beautiful textiles under the feet of his horse. For the first time, Suleyman’s future looked bright, and Selim I put up a show of his dynastic continuity. At this point in 1512, Suleyman and Selim were working together for their joint future and part of the same faction: If his father succeeded at getting rid of Ahmed and his son Suleyman would be the sole heir of the Ottoman throne.

🩵Year of 1513 marks a turning point in Suleyman’s claims to the throne. In late March 1513 Selim I wrote a letter to Süleyman who was guarding Istanbul at the time and asked his son to go to a location on the outskirts of Istanbul.

“… as soon as my imperial decree reaches you,
without delaying even for a moment or an hour, find a safe place near Istanbul so that you may come near Istanbul, for an important matter has arisen. Upon my command, once you have arrived near Istanbul, write and inform my royal court. Then, whatever form my exalted command
may take, you shall act in accordance with it. On this twenty-seventh day of the sacred month of Muharram, which is the appointed day, I too departed from the blessed city of Bursa with blessings and good fortune and, by the grace of Allah, set out toward Sultan Ahmed. Know this well: Place your trust in the sacred emblem. Written toward the end of Muharram al-Haram 919” Sultan Selim I to his son Suleyman

🩵11 days later, Selim and his brother Ahmed met in Yenişehir —not for a catch up but for a fight that would solidify Suleyman’s status as the heir to Ottoman throne. Ahmed was caught while attempting to flee to İzmit. Ahmed was executed and buried in Bursa, while his son Osman (Suleyman’s cousin) who was in Amasya at the time was captured by Selim’s forces. Both Ahmed’s son Osman and Murad’s son Mustafa (Ahmed’s grandson) were strangulated on May 14th, 1513.

🩵Nicolo Giustiniani, the Venetian bailo in Istanbul, reported that Selim would soon grant Suleyman a “Sanjak” — a province.

Manisa Sanjakbey in 1513:

Suleyman moved to his Manisa governorship as the only heir of the throne. Francesco Arimondo, the commander of Napoli di Romania, wrote on July 24th 1513: “the son of the Signor has gone to Manisa, where his father gave him the governorship”.

In 1514 and 1516, Suleyman was ordered to go to Edirne while his father Selim was leading a campaign. Selim sent at least two announcements of victory to Süleyman during the first Eastern campaign; one following the battle of Çaldıran and the other one following Kemah. They both ordered the prince to make celebrations for the victory.

Süleyman came to Istanbul and spent time with his father following Selim I’s return from the campaign in 1515. Suleyman arrived on July 26th, 1515 and was taken to İskender Pasha’s residence. Süleyman came over to present his gifts and kiss the Sultan’s hand. “… On the ninth day, a court session was held. The young, fortunate prince came to receive his (Selim’s) authorization and also to kiss the hand.” There are no contemporary records of whether Suleyman spent one on one “dad and son” time with Selim, but he performed his duty in these ceremonies displayed his loyalty to his father.

The met again near Kırklareli in 1518, and again Suleyman kissed his father’s hand and presented his loyalty. Lutfi Pasha observed that Sultan Selim I had appreciated his son and decided that his son was fit to rule after him.

Up until this point, it seems that while we are not sure if there was a deep father and son bond between Selim and Suleyman, it’s evident from the events took place during Suleyman’s princehood that Selim was confident that Suleyman would be a fit ruler after him and Suleyman meticulously followed his father’s orders. It’s very unlikely that Selim I who worked tooth and nail to expand the empire’s territories and who only had one legitimate heir at the time would make such an abrupt decision like killing his son and risk the continuation of Ottoman dynasty. It’s also important to note that Selim I seems to have stopped having relationships with women, which means he was content with his son Suleyman. On February 7th 1514, Antonio Giustiniani, reported that Sultan Selim did not wish to have any more children so he did not engage with women anymore. Alvise Mocenigo repeated the same information on June 4th 1518 and emphasized that Selim did not want any more children. (By this point Suleyman already had male kids of his own)

🩵

However, Giovio would tell the story of “Hafsa Hatun saving Süleyman’s life upon discovering the poisoned kaftan gifted to him by his father”:

“For it is said that he once wanted to kill his son with a garment laced with a most cruel poison, to avenge certain words of the boy’s that were too sharp; but that the mother, with shrewd mercy, refused the gift of that dangerous garment and, in Suleiman’s stead, gave it to one of her servants, thereby swiftly saving her son’s life.”

“Sultan Selim arrived in Constantinople, where
he had left Suleiman, his only son, under the guardianship of Piri Pasha, a man of great loyalty and singular prudence; and there were many who said that Suleiman had been in great danger of being poisoned by a robe dipped in poison, which his father had sent him, fearing that his son might do to him what he had done to Sultan Bayezid.”

Nicolo Giustiniani, the Venetian bailo in Istanbul also mentions the “poisoned gown” in his letters from April 1515.

I believe these reports are based on hearsay and are not indeed based on actual events. Had Selim thought Suleyman was truly a traitor, he would probably execute him with more traditional means and wouldn’t bother with a poisoned kaftan.

Source: Zeynep Yelce