u/amazinglycuriousgal

How was the process? How was the recovery? Did you face push-back or bottlenecks because you were a young child-free/nulliparous woman who wanted to undergo this surgery electively? (I presume that it was laproscopically performed.)

If we believe that Anne Boleyn was born in 1507, won't Jane have been born possibly at least a few more years later than 1508— her popularly accepted birth year?

To begin the discussion, mine are:

• It should've been a weekly series with hour-long episodes and should've involved significant chunk of elite political drama especially after they fell in love. QUALITY>>> + Preventing burnout and unoriginality of the series-team as a whole.
• While Lavina is evidently amongst the Top 3 actors in the cast (after Ashwini and Rajat)— but, like the show had intended to depict Ruqaiya, the first portrayal by Smilie was far more suitable and intriguing to me.
• Jodha should've been portrayed as she was in history (with greater emphasis on politics after they fell in love)— she was a very compassionate and charitable woman but she was also a political powerhouse; an adventurous, shrewd, enterprising and visionary businesswoman who was to become the most powerful woman in the Mughal Empire (and whose political tenure lasted for ~6 decades!)
• They did Gulbadan Begum SO wrong! Seriously, read about this singular lady, like yes, thanks for mentioning about her writing Humayunama but honestly, that's one of the lesser interesting facets of her incredible life.
• Hamida was done SO wrong, again and honestly, many a times other women were undermined or diminished in general, just to exalt Jodha to no end and also, sometimes Jodha was portrayed as "not like other girls", which in retrospect, I disliked— though I loved that they let us have one beautiful and healthy Mil-Dil relationship lol
• I know why they did so (DRAMA lol) but as a history nerd, I have come to feel bad about the popular characterisation of Maham Anga— I feel like the show and the movie together further perpetuated this antagonist narrative about a truly rare woman in history who exercised overwhelming political influence and was literally Akbar's regent for about 2 or so years back in the mid-16th century!
• Similarly, I feel bad that because of the series, Ruqaiya Begum got a negative popular characterisation while from whatever we know, she appears to have not even been a part of politics and seems to have kept herself away from drama and just chilled around, her choice to be buried beside her dad rather than Akbar was telling— she must've felt so lonely and sadly, couldn't have her own kids— but she appears to have been an incredibly maternal woman who desired nothing over a happy family life :(

Anyways, these are some of my major (possibly) unpopular opinions, what are yours?

Just wanted a review lol

I wanted them to depict her more like her historical self, you know rather than whatever they did to her post-Sujamal reconciliation, ugh...

Here's a preview for the book which is slated to be released on July 23, 2026:

>“Jane Seymour: Patronage, Material Culture and Image Crafting is the first full length academic study of Jane's life and queenship.

>Using extensive archival research, it pulls together all of the surviving information to provide both a biographical and a thematic account.

>Chapters include a consideration of Jane's queenship and political role, her material cultural environment, her household, her financial position and her religion, before also considering her afterlife and attempts to commemorate her both officially and unofficially.

>In doing so, the book banishes many myths that have grown up around the queen, most notably ideas of her passivity and powerlessness and also often repeated (but unsubstantiated) claims of her conservative religious outlook.

>This book presents a picture of Jane as an active and highly political queen consort.”

Edit: Date of release added!

This was one of the worst scenes, seriously— is it weird that I think Ruqaiya should've intervened instead of adding fuel to the fire?

If that were the case, it would've established Ruqaiya as one of the top-most nuanced morally grey female characters (well, before they ruined and utterly made her a vamp/antagonist).

Like the scene prior to it was that Ruqaiya would essentially protect Jodha from Jalal if Jodha bowed to Ruqaiya, which Jodha did, so would've been so cool...anyways, they could've shown Jalal craving for Jodha much better than this domestic violence scene, I never saw their love story the same after having watched this scene.

(I had also skipped most of the Khayber-Atifa saga because, again verbal and psychological abuse on a pregnant woman and Khayber was just...such stupid and non-sensical writing!)

Sujamal was Jodha's first cousin too, just as Ruqaiya and Salima were Jalal's— like c'mon Ruqaiya had this dialogue that she can't even imagine Jodha being romantically involved with Sujamal 😭 Royals and their logic lol— another show inconsistency hehe!

When it didn't work out after the initial months or so, and the other moderator had abandoned the subreddit because well, r/sultanateofwomen wasn't receiving any attention, so she had understandably given up and she had some personal issues — but I was still there and I was like I want us to have a space for talking about historical Ottoman ladies and I did practically everything on my own building it from scratch then, but now this happened?

Very disappointed and feel so betrayed by a fellow woman, who I had thought of as an maternal figure of sorts online and I had tried to help her through her hard times, while I was dealing with so much personally myself...

Just wanted to repost here once, since I have been maliciously blocked by her and can't even post my side of the story on the very subreddit I had built from scratch when it lay abandoned by the other moderator in the crucial months of my building it.

Update: Been perma-banned from the very community I practically built from scratch...

EDIT: To give more context:

- Thank you for empathising, I just feel so disappointed and betrayed also because I had gone out of the way to be a friend and confidant to her when she had been having some personal issues— while going through so much myself as a young girl.

When I had been hospitalized and had to get surgery, researching about Ottoman ladies was a great distraction and I had built that subreddit essentially on my own when it was down in the dungeons— just so we have one place to talk about these awe-inspiring women— I had built that group from scratch, when she had understandably abandoned it because no one wants to post on a dead group.

My extensive and painstaking research was plagiarised on multiple platforms without crediting me, so I had to delete some of it, even if I didn't want to.

Now, since I have been blocked out of blue, I have no way of knowing if she's misrepresenting me etc. and what not and as you can see, my post was already removed by her since she's the sole moderator there — I would've never posted here if she hadn't removed my post and blocked me off personally.

- I might've had disagreements with people but I haven't banned, blocked and removed their content generally heavy-handedly like the other moderator does, unless something was done in bad-faith against Ottoman ladies— since I've been blocked by her, I don't know what has been posted by her regarding myself and I can't defend or understand the narratives on that sub about myself, either since I can't see that.

- Hi, so it's rather out of the blue for me as I've been busy with my studies and health issues owing to my surgery last year —besides I can't see what has been put up by herself about me because I had been blocked by her, so how must I defend myself if I am being misrepresented and my side of the story removed?

As far as I can understand, it's having minor disagreements, which are natural to have about any topic, but even they were minor and mostly, these were in good cheer— and our conversations even the day before it happened were my funny quips to her about random bizzare Ottoman topics on which we had a good laugh over.

If you see my responses to her posts, I have been almost exclusively supportive and appreciative of her and in fact, I had stopped posting any little additions and corrections for translations to her posts because she often took them negatively— as some people have reached out to me, I got to know that they were blocked, and had their content removed by the other moderator for simply having mild disagreements with her.

Privately, without going into details, I have been a confidant and friend to her because some of the issues she had faced in the past by women of middle-age were recently faced by my mom, so even a couple of days earlier, we had a good chat about if she wished to vent out any issues or updates, I'm all ears, which she did and I understood her, validated her and merely wished her the best, reiterating that she's a strong woman— and I have been going through so much myself in my career, education and personal life on top of my health issues for which I have to visit a doctor this Monday evening. 

It was just a shocking betrayal and honestly, I have no idea what she means with moderation styles because that's not even an issue for me, at least? I don't even remember an issue concerning moderation recently.

Many months back, I would merely ask her when she was being too heavy-handed with blocking and banning on her part but I would just respectfully ask as I wasn't remotely as online as she had been, so I thought maybe I don't have the context to understand the severe responses, but even then, mostly let her do as she pleased because I didn't mean to upset her and I mean it's Reddit, why care so much?— 

I had to take a break of nearly 3 weeks recently as I had so much shit to deal with personally, so I wasn't able to moderate even lol, not that there was much to moderate anyways because it's a small community. 

I hope that helps people in understanding my disappointment, shock and feeling of betrayal. 

When I had been building this community — I was almost exclusively the only one contributing and I had vacations then, so it was fine that I was active online, when I would ask her to contribute too, she'd just say that there's no community and had given up and she had essentially abandoned more or less in those crucial early months of me doing everything for the sub to gain traction— but I hadn't and was committed to building a community from scratch and when the sub gained traction, she came back, but even then when I was busy with my studies, the sub would again lose traction, so I had to take care of that. 

I had seen almost no visitors and 0 contributions to the SoW subreddit when I committed to building it and now it's at some 3k weekly visitors, I was about to make a post on thanking everyone for making that happen and sticking by me when I was essentially the only one talking into the abyss, but then, this happened...anyways, I don't want to dwell on it further, I thank you for listening and understanding if you kindly and patiently did.

(I won't be engaging with that subreddit anymore, something hard and sad for me to say— but my older content stays put on my profile, at least...)

Update: It has come to my notice that already some of my content was removed by her + even that of others, because I had "dared" to defend some of the other people— who had disagreed or argued with her— all of these folks were blocked by her and their content removed by her as well.

If you read the ambassadorial reports of Murad III's time, it's so interesting how even with such a mama's boy of a son that she had, Nurbanu had to primarily prioritize & exert SO much efforts and employ plethora of underhand means to please her son and to remain in his favour, such as gifting him a magnificent palace that she had made for herself; read:

>“There is no one with the influence to advise him [Murad III], nor does he share his thoughts with anyone—save for his Sultana mother [Nurbanu] and his Sultana wife [Safiye]—yet he relies heavily on his mother’s counsel, and in practice, she [Nurbanu] is the one who rules.

>[...] I must also add that, knowing how much of her [Nurbanu's] greatness depends on the favor she enjoys with His Majesty, she seeks by every means to preserve it; not only does she flatter him profusely, but she also takes great care to ensure that nothing ever escapes her that might displease His Majesty.

>For this reason, she [Nurbanu] encourages and supports His Majesty’s natural inclination to avoid going to war—so as not to put him in danger, but also for the sake of her own interests.” — Report of Giacomo Soranzo, 1584 (compiled around mid-1583)

As many reports illustrate, Murad III and Nurbanu (as well as Safiye, though less so) were all extremely greedy and like Nurbanu's biographer Emilio Spagni illustrated— Nurbanu was able to maintain her son's supreme favour also because she satisfied his greed by every possible way (that's why the plethora of bribes etc.)

Like Nurbanu earlier was furious at Koca Sinan Paşa who wanted Murad to be at the Persian campaign of 1578-90 which would've cut off Nurbanu's access to her son, thus making her unable to rule through him—

Similarly, Safiye was also angry at the officials who tried to keep her son Mehmed III away from her because proximity to the enthroned Sultan = access to power via his throne.

Kösem had messed-up relationships with her sons and as such, continually tried to placate and please them too by organising festivities, gifting horses etc. even when she was Murad IV's de-facto regent and once she wasn't, Murad STILL cut her off (and had in fact didn't defer and listen to his mom as early as 1625— 2 years into her regency which lasted until mid-1632).

Kösem and her daughters + others had to band together to get rid of Kermankeş Mustafa Paşa, the Grand Vizier and de-facto ruler of the empire until January, 1644 when he was dismissed and executed — EVEN then, Kösem failed to gain her son's favour and when İbrahim continually ignored her, she just stopped talking to him (and Ibrahim banished her later in 1647). More about Kösem Sultan's political career here.

Turhan was again furious at Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa, for trying to keep her son Mehmed IV away from herself which was again threatening to her power. (Both Turhan and Gülnuş conspired to get rid of him, Mehmed IV didn't remove him even then...)

Later reports mention how Turhan was pungently jealous of Gülnuş because Gülnuş gained greater proximity to Mehmed IV (while Turhan lost it) in the last 5ish years of Turhan's life (also, Mehmed IV was estranged from his mom from around the mid-1670s because she blocked him from executing his half-brothers— this countermanding of Turhan indeed ended to bite back Mehmed and Gülnuş later).

>“At first glance, she [Gülnüş] seems to be completely averse to any affair but in reality with her arts, deceptions and flatteries with which she bends the Gran Signore’s will, she has a large share in deliberations and graces. From this stems the most pungent jealousy of the Queen Mother, now 60 years old, who, having governed the empire with despotic power during her son's minority, bitterly resents seeing the other being preferred in esteem and confidence.” — Report of Giovanni Morosini di Alvise (1680)

>"Between her [Turhan] and the King's bride [Gülnuş], that is the Queen, there are fierce jealousies because both aspire to dominate the easy mind of the sultan; these two queens unite their intentions in the longed-for downgrading of the first Visir; and even though the mother has always had her son's respect, for the past two years the queen consort's arts have prevailed." — Report of Pietro Civano (1682)

The Queen Mothers in the Age of the Queen Mother (c. 1577-1683) had to placate and please their sons and tried so much for their sons to stay near them (and I'm talking about women like Nurbanu, Safiye vis-a-vis their sons— who were the greatest mama's boys of the Empire!)

My issue was that we forget that the proximity was to the guy enthroned, whether that guy is their master or son or cousin or nephew or grandson, etc.— and this point is absolutely important for any woman or man in any era (for women, the proximity didn't happen until Süleyman's reign and then too it was Hürrem).

Simultaneously, what Hürrem did achieve— a lot of it was done of her own volition— what she made out of the favour and proximity MATTERED (Süleyman supported her, of course— just as was the case with all her successors with their corresponding enthroned man) because ultimately, even when we talk about the most powerful ladies of the Empire, they never were, and never could become Sovereigns themselves, even when they were de-facto rulers for a significant time.

Read more here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/sultanateofwomen/comments/1u8zyr8/comment/oscw9qw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=2&utm_content=share_button

Hafsa was so close to her son too, why didn't she figure into politics— because she was NEVER at the Topkapı Palace while Hürrem had been there since the last half of 1520s— like Art Historian Gülru Necipoğlu established (Süleyman started construction and expansion of her chambers since at least 1527, if not earlier!)

Why wasn't Mihrümah as successful in absolutely dominating the politics (like her mom, Hürrem Sultan had done) after Hürrem died?

During 1562, it was reported how even when Mihrümah Sultan was so greatly beloved and held a great deal of authority with Süleyman— she had to petition the new Grand Vizier Semiz Ali Paşa to interact with her own father!

After Mihrümah's death, Murad III forced Ayşe Sultan, Mihrümah's daughter and took away most of the wealth that was supposed to be inherited by her— Ayşe was literally isolated once her mom died and then, in 1580, her husband died too!

Forget Ayşe, İsmihan had to send repeated gifts to her own full-brother, Murad III to please him for the benefit of her son, Ibrahim Han (the only son of her that survived from her first marriage to Sokollu Mehmed!)

Yet, we only associate Hürrem's relationship with her respective enthroned ruler Süleyman to her success in pop culture— not Nurbanu's, Safiye's, Kösem's and Turhan's with their respective enthroned man (son, because it was The Age of the Queen Mother)?

As for Mihrümah, Historian Christine Isom-Verhaaren has a whole paper titled on her identity as Hürrem's daughter: "Süleyman & Mihrümah: The Favourite's Daughter".

I don't see anyone saying the same for the most powerful men of the Empire during the SoW era— the most powerful Grand Viziers: İbrahim Paşa, Rüstem Paşa, Sokollu Mehmed Paşa, Kermankeş Mustafa Paşa, Köprülü Mehmed Paşa, Köprülüzade Fazıl Ahmed Paşa, Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Paşa etc.

CONCLUSION: Gaining & maintaining proximity and access to the enthroned male ruler (whether that is their master/son, etc.)—is the utmost non-negotiable condition for the success any woman or man in any era in any patriarchal Empire!

Tell krow pls 🥹

>“This Sultan Mehmed—His Majesty’s only surviving son (alongside two daughters), though four other sons born of the same mother* had previously died—is now between sixteen and seventeen years of age [...] This prince still resides in the Seraglio with his father—a completely novel practice never before adopted by Ottoman emperors, as it was customary to send sons to govern a [sanjak] once they had come of age.

>Yet His Majesty insists on keeping him close, claiming that, as he has only this one son, he takes such pleasure in his company that he is unwilling to part with him—even though he has had a new Seraglio built for the prince not far from the mouth of the Black Sea.

>Others, however, believe the reason is that His Majesty does not trust him; many tales are told of things said and done by His Highness [the Prince] that reveal a restless and haughty spirit.

>It is said he [Mehmed] has frequently caused His Majesty distress—for instance, having fallen in love with a young slave girl in the Seraglio belonging to the Sultana Mother, he sought to possess her without anyone's permission; when a eunuch once tried to bar the girl's entry, the prince killed him with his dagger.

>Upon the discovery of this deed, the Sultana Mother had the girl—who was rumored to be pregnant—drowned.

>His Highness was so devastated by this that he reportedly wanted to kill the Sultana Mother herself, causing her to leave the Seraglio; it took great effort to persuade her to return, and although the Sultan visited her several times and reconciled with her, it is said she does not trust her grandson in the least.” — Translated by me from the Report of Giacomo Soranzo, 1584

*Safiye Sultan [c. 1548 - January, 1619] had these 7 children:

• Mehmed III (mid-1567 - December 20, 1603) : Safiye's as well as Murad's first child and son
• Süleyman (c. 1569 - possibly December, 1573, in any case ante December, 1576)
• Ayşe (c. 1571 - May 1605)
• Mahmud (July 11, 1572 - ante 1581)
• Fatma (c. 1574/5 - 1617)
• Süleyman (December 1576 - September, 1577)
• Selim (January 1579 - ante 1581): her last kid (Murad faced a bout of infertility after this kid and Safiye was banished because well, it was she who made him impotent— as Vâlide Sultan Nurbanu accused her of)

I had first read about Nurbanu murdering this pregnant teen girl in Dr. Maria Pedani's essay, however, after reading the actual report, I observed that Pedani made a minor honest mistake in translation which I presented in the above report, following is what Pedani had mentioned:

>(Giacomo Soranzo, 1584). From the same report we learn that Nur Banu ordered the killing of one of her slaves, who was in love with prince Mehmed and pregnant.

As you can see in the above report, it was reported that it was teen Mehmed himself who fell in love with that teen slave girl and impregnated her, not vice versa. There are other reports of Nurbanu's malicious role in tearing apart the erstwhile extremely loving relationship between father-son, I'll try to post most of the relevant excerpts.

(Note again that this report was compiled earlier by around mid-1583 but presented in 1584 after Nurbanu had died; similarly while Safiye had been banished earlier around 1581; the ambassadors only got to know the whole account in September, 1583 when Nurbanu's Kira/Jewish Agent, Esther Handali reported it to the Venetian ambassador.)