u/Icy_Resolution2783

Firstly- I want to. And I realize a lot of these beliefs are rooted in my base beliefs about sexuality and attraction so I want to challenge these. This isn't your labor, but if you're willing I would love to hear your perspective.

I'm having a hard time reconciling the reality of more testosterone with the concept of male asexuality. Obviously so much of attraction is brain and subconscious based and that's how I'm currently seeing it... like how when someone is stressed they might not be in the mood.

I guess your libido has nothing to do with attraction amd the whole "men are visual" really is just a lie?

I would love to hear your experiences dating a male demisexual or being one!

Thank you!

I'm sick of having no cheese in my life.

I'm not just LI I also have a hard time with whey/casein. I read that cheese aged 2-3 years breaks down those proteins enough that bodies can sometimes process it.

Has anyone had luck?

Follow up to the other days "why do men show no interest and then kiss"

When you think of "women want to be left alone" "everything makes women uncomfortable" "don't treat women like sexual objects"... this is all primarily with strangers.

THE 3 BIG NO'S ON DATES

• no sexual jokes/talk (including innuendo) until you know she likes them/where her line is... if thats like a huge part of your personality then honestly I would ask if that would make her uncomfortable, straight up. Like ask about her sense of humor and what makes her laugh most- or just share what makes you laugh most without making the joke. If she doesnt expressly say she thinks those jokes are funny, don't do it.

• no groping. Pass her the salt or a napkin to break the touch barrier subtly, or do other tiny or near touches that come naturally. If you are heavily making out then you can also test the boundaries.

• no overt staring at chest.

• some women will be nervous about other things, you standing between her and the exit, you sitting too closely (best way to test the sitting too closely could be to sit closish enough your legs touch, apologize and give her a bit of space and watch her reaction). There could be a thousand other things that could make women uncomfortable- and maybe women can share

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A kiss is NOT how you gauge someone's interest.

You should know before the kiss. There should be enough chemistry and interest shown from both sides that a kiss feels like the natural next step. Not a panic gesture.

This is for ON A DATE.

The Date agreement means she's (usually) at least 51% interested in you, vs a random woman on the street who is 0% interested in you.

When a woman is past 50%, it means that non sexual flirting or compliments will not have you taken to court. And 99% you won't be mocked for telling her she's pretty.

(She probably assumes you're also at at least 51%, so she is also actively reading how much interest you are showing. If you aren't actively engaging with her, looking her in the eye, that number will drop in her head until it hits 0% again. If you ask for a kiss after that, it feels like whiplash.)

Firstly: "showing interest" should never be overtly sexual at first, literally ever, but it can grow to that eventually depending on the couple. If you think "attraction" or "female attention" and your mind goes straight to sex, then we need to give space between seeing a woman and thinking about sex.

You are most likely meeting a total stranger who agreed to a date. Agreeing to a date means she's curious about romantic options with you. You are giving her a preview into what that relationship would be like. This is why its very important to not go from being completely neutral to trying to touch lips and exchange fluids(saliva which happens in a kiss). That tells her there will be zero romance or fun or foreplay in the relationship.

What going straight to a kiss is like:

Doing absolutely nothing to show romantic interest (not sexual), then trying for a kiss is like standing outside someone's door, forgetting to knock, then suddenly trying to kick it in. If you build slowly, there will be almost no nerves and just excitement for the kiss... you knocked, she asked who is it, you said your name, she opens the door and all you have left between you is the screen door and the kiss becomes her stepping out onto the porch with you for the kiss. (Going inside the house would be sex, going in without an invitation is grape).

WHAT YOU BEHAVIOUR DISPLAYS:

• Negative: being overtly sexual at all at first, touching any remotely private area, intimidating, being stubborn and forcing your way or your desires, yelling, refusing eye constant, being disgruntled, going silent or refusing to participate when participation is expected, being rude to anyone, crossing boundaries (you are not entitled to anything or anyone, you will have to work for everything, internalize this to dampen frustration- as little as having to find a bathroom and struggling to do so, work for it.)

• Neutral: simply NOT doing the negative behaviors and not doing any of the positives either. This is how you would act to a coworker who could get you fired if you looked at her funny, but also if you avoided her too hard in the break room.

• General positive: eye contact, smiling when you see her at first and listening, not interrupting her, asking her questions. 'Actively listen' (look this up if you need to').

• Showing interest in her: follow up questions about what she is talking about, getting curious about her and her life experience. Considering her needs on the date: napkins, salt, water, space, silence. Also, all that stuff you shove down when just walking around in public, you can just show her- glance over her hair/shoulder/shirt face if it's pretty (just don't fantasize about her). Mentioning something you have in common and that you like that- or even just something about her that you like "it's cool that you have ______ hobby, tell me more" or "it's cool that you're close with your family".

• Baby steps of flirting: compliment her on something non physical and one physical thing, When you hand her a napkin/salt it's ok of your hands touch. Lean closer to hear to her better. Look across her face and smile if you like it. "I'm having a good time" "sorry I'm a little nervous because you're so pretty", "I like talking to you" "I like hearing what you have to say" (not all of these! Just a couple sprinkled in is more than enough!). Ultimately, if you like her, show it, however it comes naturally without doing the "do not do's".

Not baby step: If you're in a crowded place, touch her shoulder or midback to 'not lose each other'.

Now, remember to do these according to what feels most natural to you. I'd encourage you to do a little exercise where you imagine you are on a date a pick some of these behaviors that feel comfortable and imagine doing them well and receiving smiles in return.

This goes throughout romantic relationships, always... it is like owning a vehicle. It will break down if you do not do the upkeep. Romance and affection, and eventually housework(which goes for all roomates) is the gas and oil. Stop checking and stop filling the tank and it will stop working.

TLDR: if she's agreed to a date with you, she is likely 51% interested, so stop treating her like a stranger/coworker where you have to think "can't show any interest whatsoever". There are levels to interest to show as I mentioned. If you show only Neutral signs(ie only not negative signs), then trying going for a kiss, she will most likely think you just want sex and don't like her at all.

Edited; midback/shoulder touch might be too much for some women

How do I deal with this, why is this happening? And are other people having this happen?

Basically a guy will act so platonic that it's like he's a brother, or like he's there at gunpoint, so I start closing down the date and ending it early...

Then suddenly, with zero lead up will ask for or lean in for a kiss and ask for a second date.

It's incredibly uncomfortable, and disorienting. It's like they've forgotten how to flirt or show subtle attraction without blatantly saying something gross or touching you?

Edit: I am very flirty to these guys, and very understanding of shyness/nervousness, its actually easier to tell attraction with that.

EDIT 2: is it hard for men to fliet without being overtly sexual? Like on a whole date are you only either thinking "get to know her" OR "try get her in bed" and no in between? Because so many of the comments are guys acting like its impossible to show interest and be safe about it.

EDIT THREE: ok, so I think the guys that do this actually need real psychiatric help in order to show their feelings and not repress them or preform them. Cause shy/nervous guys are actually great, they can't help but show their attraction by continuously looking at you/can't hide their smile etc.

Just a friend that could have maybe been leaning to more... he said something and it triggered my fear of men to the extreme.

Told him we shouldn't talk anymore, he was sweet and non demanding.

I can't tell if I was too hasty, but also my fear of men is huge and I don't know how to handle that in this relationship.

I'm curious if the past is changing anyone's dating strategies!

I know we shouldn't compare... but that person has years to learn all the things you're trying to figure out: what they like in bed, their comfort everything, their favorite meals.

Its even harder when they are coparenting and constantly see each other.

Please no "therapy/don't be insecure" I'm looking for concrete advice or perspective shifts.

The more therapy I go to and the more I think about it all... the more it feels like relationships aren't worth it and I'm hoping to be proven wrong.

Total honesty, I think what I crave most from a relationship is feeling special.

The more mature a relationship is, the more I have to come to terms with the fact that I'm not special, I'm just here and good enough.

Mature relationship things:

• not caring about their exes and how in love they were

• not comparisons

• Knowing if it ended I'd be hurt but fine

• being secure that "they want me" not everyone else around

• Their past is in the past

• looks fade

All of those are great sayings, but they really do make relationships just feel like a pair of shoes "these are good enough and serve my purposes" rather than soul mate shit.

You have to give up and sacrifice so much in a relationship too- how is that worth it when you're not even the only person they've ever loved?

Something that happens regularly is that peoppe will feel close to.me because I'll reveal something embarrassing, but its just a tiny piece of my life, so its not vulnerable to me. So people will feel close even though I don't at all.

It's so hard to explain to a partner that while they're getting bombed with wonderful good feeling chemicals, I feel dread akin to be actively hunted by a seriel killer. They're like "I'm afraid too!" And it's like... nope, it's not the same feeling.

Other people get good fuzzy feelings with closeness, so I hear. I think its supposed to be like when a dog is scared but you seem safe enough that it finally lets you pet it...

I've pushed past it in the past only to find out those partners were horrifically, traumatizingly bad.

I want a relationship, but I'm not even really sure why anymore. I think I want to feel what they feel with closeness.

Sidenote: is anyone else a very open FA?

Context: I've had "good sex", adventurous, connected, loving, crazy, whatever.

But if you want the dopamine hit, just eat a chocolate bar or go on your phone, or take care of it yourself.

The part that makes sex with a partner good is just being desired and seeing them desperately wanting your body...

This just guts me, and truly makes me think that there is no reason for a relationship regardless-- yes people are going to say "oh it becomes about your connection in other ways"... but there's gorgeous women out there and that qualifier is just such a stark reminder of how diminishing the returns on beauty are and how useless a relationship would truly be anyways.

Why be with a man or anyone who's just lusting after other people (whether he wants to or not?) No matter how hot you are it doesn't save you from that... but you just get the benefit of that attention for a while.

Dating isn't shampoo, or even clothes. Attraction involves a thousand psychological mechanisms that most are unaware of- resulting in only wanting something/someone specific despite a million options.

Someone is going to come in here saying "women get overwhelmed by all their options among dating sites and that's why they leave!"

No. Those women are generally overwhelmed with terrible interactions- not overwhelmed by options. They aren't going "oh no! So many apples! Which do I choose?"

They're going: "I like this apple enough to try a taste-" and on taking a bite, she finds out it's rotten.

OR the more universal experience of: "I've talked to too many people without a spark or it going anywhere and I'm exhausted". Again that's NOT too many choices, it's the price of doing this online, rather than going to big group events and being social and being able to sus ojt a vibe within seconds and move kn to more rewarding interactions.

Lowering your standards does not lead to sudden contentment with someone who isn't what you want.

Lots of people naturally mature as they get older and their desires in a partner change to be less shallow, this is natural. They are naturally now deeply attracted, sexually attracted to other qualities.

Folks who tote this phrase are trying to unnaturally speed up the natural process of valuing other things because they want access to people now.

Just telling people who haven't matured in that way just leads to a bunch of people settling, and people who feel like they settle, feel disconnected, unattracted, and resentful and eventually leads to a dead bedroom.

Telling people to "looksmatch" or lower their standard for a match are asking people to be more desperate and desperation rarely churns out good long term results.

Humans typically know what they need, whether it's financially, physically, personality-wise.

And while you might want to say "see they ended up there anyways so that's what they really needed"- no. At that time they ALSO needed the other thing (often physical), then as they matured that need went away.

Many people are going to end up not partnered. That's a fact of life, and there needs to be other focuses in life and acceptance.

I'm not sure what else to say here and I'm supposed to say a lot.

I guess I'll give you some info to be mean to me about...

I'm a leftie feminist. I'm single. I'm fat...

I'm kind of nerdy, but not super nerdy. I don't have any real hobbies and I'm not really good at anything.

I like romantasy, and rom coms and those teens dramas.

Please be mean to me for a bit. It's not like a hot thing, it's just like... relief hearing mean things when usually people just think them and hold their tongue.

We can talk about a topic first for you to get ammunition of you like.

Intimacy does not mean sex, it has a specific meaning, and when people over correlate the 2 it stigmatizes intimacy in non sexual relationships.

We should be intimate with our friends, our parents, and family... but people feel weird about saying that because of this connotation.

There is no reason for the word sex to be taboo either, so when you mean sex, say sex.

When you want an increase of closeness, in familiarity or emotionally- say intimacy.

Discomfort with the word sex, is often immaturity. Words have meanings, and sex isn't a hush hush thing to never say or to always have euphemisms for.

--- the biggest place this shows up is in both men and women requesting more intimacy in their relationships. More often than not, men mean sex and women mean actual intimacy. How confusing is that?

Sex is also not a substitute for intimacy.

Edit: I never said sex was not intimate, but it isn't always for everyone- so just say it was intimate, if it was.

Edit TWO:

My point was that words shape our thoughts and feelings and word associations are real-- so people associate intimacy with sex (maybe not you! But many people do) and therefore it is stigmatizing non sexual intimacy.

But this is just unpopular opinion, I'm not trying to change any of your minds.

Like guys talk about trying to make their dad proud, or beat him or emulate him-- like guys are so much more obsessed with the idea of role models than women are? Just generally, they often seem obsessed with their dads or older men in a way younger women are not obsessed with older women.... whether he's in their life or not.

I've genuinely never heard a woman speak about their mom this way.

All of the discussions I've seen, everyone is making all these claims, but its mostly very hot people who have the advantages on dating sites.

We need a reality check.

Average people in a large part of the world are going to be overweight, verging on obese.

For example: North American numbers are that 30% are overweight and 40% are obese. That's 70%. The average person is overweight, like decently overweight.

Average people will have plain features.

I did a weird mini survey and asked folks to send me a picture of someone 'average looking' but that they find attractive... almost all were girl/boy-next-door very cute, and far above average looking.

Worried about: safety, feelings, wasting each other's time, offending them, not being attracted to them in person.

Specifically long distance, where there are flights and possibly hotels involved.

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I know I can say 'can we meet up as friends and see how it goes?' But that doesn't really change anything in reality.

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So how did your stories go and what would you do differently?

First off, I'm a woman and this isn't just men vs women, because this goes for gay dating too.

Can first dates from someone you met online* be low effort, like coffee or splitting the bill as the expectation?

If a generous partner is important, then that can begin once long term mutual interest is established.

Expecting people to shell out 50$+ for a first date every week is too much.

This is online dating specific! In real life whoever asked out should pay.

Why:

• expecting someone who hasn't even seen/met you before to pay for you is absolutely expecting too much.

• even wealthy people who are good with their money don't see every first day as an investment.

• there's no reason to have to commit to a whole dinner in case you guys don't jive.

• this isn't the 90s! Whatever roles you want to assume and resume after mutual interest is established.

It doesn't make sense to want a financially responsible, practical people, to be making bad financial decisions like paying for every first date that may or may not go well.

Edit: nevermind!! There is not a consensus, so instead maybe everyone could mention in their bios "split" or "expecting to be paid for"(or whatever more flattering way that would work) that would clear things up perfectly.

• to be clear these are people you met online and are having your first 'offline' date.

So, I want relationships with emotions and depth and mutual care, but I think the commitment is kind of ridiculous.

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I don't want to meet friends or family, I don't want to ever move in together or have kids or combine finances.

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I'm happy to be emotionally supportive, and physically supportive ie. If they had emergency surgery I'd be there in a heartbeat.

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Maybe I'd be ok with exclusivity, but even that seems silly to me if he's watching porn anyways.

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..... how do I find a connection like this, and does anyone else feel this way?