In this situation, how much would you charge per webinar registration?

I've been in B2B media for a while, always done traditional flat fee per webinar, which is fine, but I'm looking to switch to performance-based.

My heart says, "whatever people are willing to pay," but generally, what sort of range would you consider per webinar registration in this situation?

  • Very new, very niche healthcare space with tiny addressable market (maybe 50 companies).
  • If they land a contract from the lead, it's a several million $ multi-year contract, long sales cycle.
  • Not many other options to get in front of those leads, 1 or 2 small tradeshows that are mostly dead.

I've done a few pilot webinars for free, about 15-20 excellent leads per webinar.

My thoughts are a $1K platform fee + $200-300/qualified registration + $1K/meeting booked, but benchmarking that from online reports is a challenge.

Will test it in front of potential partners, hoping to hear any thoughts from others operating on performance models.

Thanks

reddit.com
u/Jewald — 13 days ago

Interesting CCI/Transoral PRP Case from Dr. Stogicza's Clinic

Just found this. I believe this patient is a judge in Germany with CCI, with pretty visible symptoms, including facial palsy when turning her head.

She did transoral PRP injections (PICL-like? I still dunno what to call it) with Dr. Stogicza and it looks like it's weirdly resolved. Pretty remarkable... and also is a good demonstration of how heterogenous the issues can be when you mess up the craniocervical junction.

I think there's a Venn diagram of things most of us share. Dizziness, disequilibrium, anxiety, visual symptoms, heart palpitations, but then there are some random spices thrown into the batch which really throws off traditional doctors.

I don't know this patient but I can only imagine what sort of paths she was put on along the way with facial palsy. If it's the transoral injections that healed it, that feels like a super lucky break to find this treatment.

Interesting!

I also really like how cautious Stogicza is about outcomes here, informed consent is super important for patients.

u/Jewald — 14 days ago

CCI/Whiplash Clinic in Florida - Dr. Ankeet Choxi, Stems Health, using other types of cells. Looks interesting...

Figured I'd share, as I hadn't heard of the clinic or doctor until recently, who seems to handle a lot of upper cervical work.

It's Dr. Ankeet Choxi, who runs Stems Health in Miami. I don't really make endorsements and I haven't done his treatment, so talk with your doctor and do your own research, but I did a consult and had a few extra discussions with him, and my impression so far is really interested.

https://preview.redd.it/kwftgeovpish1.png?width=487&format=png&auto=webp&s=03a19c856782ff472cd064b57537944968a20ba2

They seem to have the equipment and experience with C0 and below (no transoral), and what's most interesting is he's using the new Florida stem cell laws when appropriate. I'm not Mr. Know-Everything about stem cells, but I know a bit, and Dr. Choxi seems to be very up to speed with what's coming.

If you aren't aware, Florida, and a few other states, are allowing birth tissue (umbilical cord, placenta, etc) derived mesenchymal stem cells now with some limitations.

I'm not a hater on bone marrow concentrate (BMAC) and platelet-rich plasma (PRP), I've done both multiple times and think it's helped, but I don't think they work as well as they're promoted given the downsides such as very low MSC counts, variability, etc. I think this is one big source of all the variability in outcomes we hear about in the groups.

It appears he's trying things like Wharton's jelly and other birth-tissue stem cell sources, which come "off-the-shelf" with advantages, disadvantages, and unknowns. The big ones that stick out are way, way higher MSC counts... like 100x+ more, and a well-characterized product, as opposed to a random "soup" with a wide range of what's injected. Also no bone marrow surgery or double anesthesia in a day which is compelling for my needle-phobia.

At this stage not worth getting super excited about something groundbreaking and I'm still investigating, but my early personal experience with him and his team has so far been great. Will keep the sub updated if I go, what I do, etc.

I mentioned above, but just to drive it home, not medical advice/endorsement. Talk to your doctor about any experimental therapy, my advice would be to wait until it's proven safe/effective. Also these other therapies are not approved by the FDA and can come with risks so just be cautious.

reddit.com
u/Jewald — 16 days ago

CCI/Whiplash Clinic in Florida - Dr. Ankeet Choxi, Stems Health, using other types of cells. Looks interesting...

Figured I'd share, as I hadn't heard of the clinic or doctor until recently, who seems to handle a lot of upper cervical work.

It's Dr. Ankeet Choxi, who runs Stems Health in Miami. I don't really make endorsements and I haven't done his treatment, so talk with your doctor and do your own research, but I did a consult and had a few extra discussions with him, and my impression so far is really interested.

https://preview.redd.it/bwxtnmcdpish1.png?width=487&format=png&auto=webp&s=f456a1bf3adc8b3c6679463d5c3d4393a9c23f81

They seem to have the equipment and experience with C0 and below (no transoral), and what's most interesting is he's using the new Florida stem cell laws when appropriate. I'm not Mr. Know-Everything about stem cells, but I know a bit, and Dr. Choxi seems to be very up to speed with what's coming.

If you aren't aware, Florida, and a few other states, are allowing birth tissue (umbilical cord, placenta, etc) derived mesenchymal stem cells now with some limitations.

I'm not a hater on bone marrow concentrate (BMAC) and platelet-rich plasma (PRP), I've done both multiple times and think it's helped, but I don't think they work as well as they're promoted given the downsides such as very low MSC counts, variability, etc. I think this is one big source of all the variability in outcomes we hear about in the groups.

It appears he's trying things like Wharton's jelly and other birth-tissue stem cell sources, which come "off-the-shelf" with advantages, disadvantages, and unknowns. The big ones that stick out are way, way higher MSC counts... like 100x+ more, and a well-characterized product, as opposed to a random "soup" with a wide range of what's injected. Also no bone marrow surgery or double anesthesia in a day which is compelling for my needle-phobia.

At this stage not worth getting super excited about something groundbreaking and I'm still investigating, but my early personal experience with him and his team has so far been great. Will keep the sub updated if I go, what I do, etc.

I mentioned above, but just to drive it home, not medical advice/endorsement. Talk to your doctor about any experimental therapy, my advice would be to wait until it's proven safe/effective. Also these other therapies are not approved by the FDA and can come with risks so just be cautious.

reddit.com
u/Jewald — 16 days ago

Neurosurgeon doing CCI research - Could you fill out this survey?

Hi guys, there's a neurosurgeon in NYC, Dr. Jenkins, who's launching CCI research, and they could use our help.

I just spoke with them on the phone, it sounds like they've heard the same story so many times that we all know very well... gaslighting, chasing your tail, nobody knows what's happening, getting worse, and if you're lucky you find a specialist who knows CCI. What scares me is the people who aren't so lucky.

Part of that is because there is little to no research on this condition in PubMed for doctors to look at. It exists, but it's thin, doesn't capture the heterogeneity, and often doesn't provide a roadmap of what to even do next.

Sounds like that's what Dr. Jenkins and his team are hoping to change by putting pen to paper and publishing some research, presenting at conferences, etc. This starts by gathering symptoms from CCI patients on the survey below, and if it goes well which it sounds like it is, they may get some grants and take it even further.

2 Favors to Ask:

1 - Could you fill out this survey with your symptoms?

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/N9RGT86

2 - Would you mind spreading the survey around to the other groups/circles/people you chat with? I'll do the same!

They also mentioned they may be up for an interview with the sub about this project and what Dr. Jenkins does, which would be awesome.

Thanks!

Here's the researcher's contact info:

BGoodman@jenkinsneurospine.com

reddit.com
u/Jewald — 17 days ago

Neurosurgen doing CCI research - Could you fill out this survey?

Hi guys, there's a neurosurgeon in NYC, Dr. Jenkins, who's launching CCI research, and they could use our help.

I just spoke with them on the phone, it sounds like they've heard the same story so many times that we all know very well... gaslighting, chasing your tail, nobody knows what's happening, getting worse, and if you're lucky you find a specialist who knows CCI. What scares me is the people who aren't so lucky.

Part of that is because there is little to no research on this condition in PubMed for doctors to look at. It exists, but it's thin, doesn't capture the heterogeneity, and often doesn't provide a roadmap of what to even do next.

Sounds like that's what Dr. Jenkins and his team are hoping to change by putting pen to paper and publishing some research, presenting at conferences, etc. This starts by gathering symptoms from CCI patients on the survey below, and if it goes well which it sounds like it is, they may get some grants and take it even further.

2 Favors to Ask:

1 - Could you fill out this survey with your symptoms?

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/N9RGT86

2 - Would you mind spreading the survey around to the other groups/circles/people you chat with? I'll do the same!

They also mentioned they may be up for an interview with the sub about this project and what Dr. Jenkins does, which would be awesome.

Thanks!

Here's the researcher's contact info:

BGoodman@jenkinsneurospine.com

reddit.com
u/Jewald — 17 days ago

Next Interview: New CCI Surgery Using Donor Ligaments. Questions?

Hey whatsup guys, I run r/cervical_instability, hope it's okay to post this here, will also put the video here and on the FB groups. And credit to u/Huge_Pass722 for bringing this up in another thread here ✊.

Pawmatched posted about a girl on insta who I believe is Australian. Sounds like she was unable to eat, relying on IV nutrition, couldn't move, pain, dysautonomia, etc. and there was nothing for her in the Australian system.

Somehow she got connected with a clinic in Germany which designed, what I believe, a new procedure just for her that looks interesting.

It involves using donor ligaments + anterior (front) fusion. We did some digging on her insta, hope she doesn't mind, but on this post she mentions

"I then had artificial ligaments threaded through four small holes in my skull and attached at C4 and T2. This prevents my head falling forward but preserves some motion. The ligaments can also be adjusted minimally invasively if needed in the future."

From what I gather, the posterior ligament graft prevents the head from falling forward, while an anterior fusion lower down prevents it from falling backward. Fusion is always risky, but lower down fusion tends to be less risky than craniocervical fusion (fusing the skull to the spine), so if she can avoid it and do well, I could see this being an improvement.

You can thumb through her journey on her profile; most recently, she has been posting videos of her dancing and appears to be doing well. I believe her digestive system took a hit throughout this, so she has a feeding tube, but overall it appears to be an amazing recovery story.

u/Huge_Pass722 and I reached out to the clinic, the doc said he's up for an interview for the sub! It should be sometime next month.

Here are the questions I have, would love to know if people had others, comments, suggestions, etc.

- Starting off with what, why, and how, hoping they can share some pre-post images, maybe measurements if allowed

- Where did this idea come from?

- How is success going to be measured in the coming years?

- She mentions it can be adjusted later, I assume tightening the ligaments if needed, like a surgical revision. What does that entail, and at one point do you think this might happen if at all?

- What about people with lateral/rotational instability, especially in the upper cervical area? Does attaching it at C4 and the skull restrict motion in these planes too? If not, have you thought about how to innovate for that as well? Like some kind of external faux alar ligament? (Idk if that's even feasible I just know many of us, myself included, have problems here as opposed to flex/ext)

- They also mention robotics and other stuff in their surgery center... maybe they'd be up to look at regenerative medicine too?

- What's next for the surgery? Will you wait to evaluate her outcomes, or consider taking on other cases? What are the qualifications for this?

- If taking on more patients, what are you hoping to improve in the next cases?

- What's the cost?

Those are my initial thoughts will have more soon. The clinic is https://clinicbeletage.de/ and here's their contact form https://clinicbeletage.de/kontakt/

They seem like great folks. I sent them that previous thread, they said they "found it incredibly interesting to see just how many patients are struggling with instability of the cervical spine and how much interest there is in learning about different treatment options.

I also have to say that Sophie has become very dear to me, and I am genuinely so happy to see that she is doing so well and is able to live her normal life again. Seeing patients regain their quality of life is always something very special for us."

More to come, let me know if you guys would be interested in seeing it.

Thanks!

*Not medical advice, definitely an experimental treatment that needs to be evaluated by your doctor before taking on, as always*.

reddit.com
u/Jewald — 20 days ago

Next Interview: New CCI Surgery Using Donor Ligaments. Questions?

Credit to u/Huge_Pass722 for bringing this up in another thread here ✊.

This user mentioned a girl on insta who I believe is Australian. Sounds like she was unable to eat, relying on IV nutrition, couldn't move, pain, dysautonomia, etc. and there was nothing for her in the Australian system.

Somehow she got connected with a clinic in Germany which designed, what I believe, a new procedure just for her that looks interesting.

It involves using donor ligaments + anterior (front) fusion. We did some digging on her insta, hope she doesn't mind, but on this post she mentions

"I then had artificial ligaments threaded through four small holes in my skull and attached at C4 and T2. This prevents my head falling forward but preserves some motion. The ligaments can also be adjusted minimally invasively if needed in the future."

From what I gather, the posterior ligament graft prevents the head from falling forward, while an anterior fusion lower down prevents it from falling backward. Fusion is always risky, but lower down fusion tends to be less risky than craniocervical fusion (fusing the skull to the spine), so if she can avoid it and do well, I could see this being an improvement.

You can thumb through her journey on her profile; most recently, she has been posting videos of her dancing and appears to be doing well. I believe her digestive system took a hit throughout this, so she has a feeding tube, but overall it appears to be an amazing recovery story.

u/Huge_Pass722 and I reached out to the clinic, the doc said he's up for an interview for the sub! It should be sometime next month.

Here are the questions I have, would love to know if people had others, comments, suggestions, etc.

- Starting off with what, why, and how, hoping they can share some pre-post images, maybe measurements if allowed

- Where did this idea come from?

- How is success going to be measured in the coming years?

- She mentions it can be adjusted later, I assume tightening the ligaments if needed, like a surgical revision. What does that entail, and at one point do you think this might happen if at all?

- What about people with lateral/rotational instability, especially in the upper cervical area? Does attaching it at C4 and the skull restrict motion in these planes too? If not, have you thought about how to innovate for that as well? Like some kind of external faux alar ligament? (Idk if that's even feasible I just know many of us, myself included, have problems here as opposed to flex/ext)

- They also mention robotics and other stuff in their surgery center... maybe they'd be up to look at regenerative medicine too?

- What's next for the surgery? Will you wait to evaluate her outcomes, or consider taking on other cases? What are the qualifications for this?

- If taking on more patients, what are you hoping to improve in the next cases?

- What's the cost?

Those are my initial thoughts will have more soon. The clinic is https://clinicbeletage.de/ and here's their contact form https://clinicbeletage.de/kontakt/

They seem like great folks. I sent them that previous thread, they said they "found it incredibly interesting to see just how many patients are struggling with instability of the cervical spine and how much interest there is in learning about different treatment options.

I also have to say that Sophie has become very dear to me, and I am genuinely so happy to see that she is doing so well and is able to live her normal life again. Seeing patients regain their quality of life is always something very special for us."

More to come, let me know if you guys would be interested in seeing it.

Thanks!

*Not medical advice, definitely an experimental treatment that needs to be evaluated by your doctor before taking on, as always*.

reddit.com
u/Jewald — 20 days ago
▲ 3 r/regenerativemedicine+1 crossposts

Induced Pluripotent Stem Cell (iPSC)-Derived Heart Cells Show Early Promise in Chinese Heart Failure Trial

HELP Therapeutics’ iPSC-derived cardiomyocytes improved walking distance, myocardial perfusion and heart wall thickening when added to bypass surgery in a 20-patient randomized trial.

https://preview.redd.it/sbybuztqe4qh1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=e7085b6d26ea75ed3a916ce2a9279164d45b132e

Key Points

  • The HEAL-CHF trial compared iPSC-derived cardiomyocyte injections plus coronary artery bypass grafting with bypass surgery alone in 20 patients with advanced heart failure.
  • Cell therapy produced significantly greater improvements in six-minute walking distance, myocardial perfusion and relative wall thickening.
  • The study found no significant between-group differences in ejection fraction, ventricular volumes, myocardial scar size or several other clinical measures.
  • No sustained ventricular tachycardia or tumor formation was observed during the study’s defined safety periods, although all 10 cell therapy recipients developed early ventricular arrhythmias.

HELP Therapeutics and researchers at Nanjing Drum Tower Hospital have published results from the HEAL-CHF trial, an early-stage randomized study evaluating allogeneic human induced pluripotent stem cell (iPSC)-derived cardiomyocytes in patients with advanced heart failure.

The study enrolled 20 patients with a left ventricular ejection fraction of 45% or less. Ten received cardiomyocyte injections directly into the heart during coronary artery bypass grafting, while 10 underwent bypass surgery alone.

Efficacy Findings

At 12 months, secondary efficacy analyses found significantly greater improvements with cell therapy in:

  • Six-minute walking distance
  • Global myocardial perfusion
  • Relative wall thickening

The researchers reported that cell transplantation produced “significantly greater improvements in 6-min walk distance” compared with bypass surgery alone.

However, significant differences were not observed between the groups in:

  • Left ventricular ejection fraction
  • Left ventricular volumes
  • Myocardial scar size
  • New York Heart Association functional class
  • Minnesota Living with Heart Failure Questionnaire scores

Arrhythmias Remain a Safety Question

The trial’s primary endpoint focused on sustained ventricular tachycardia between one and six months after surgery and tumor formation through 12 months. Neither was observed.

Early arrhythmias were common, however. All 10 patients receiving cardiomyocytes developed accelerated idioventricular rhythm during the first four weeks, generally beginning five to seven days after transplantation.

Two patients developed clinically significant ventricular tachycardia above 140 beats per minute. The events peaked two to three weeks after treatment and resolved following cardioversion.

The researchers concluded that future studies will need to determine the risk-to-benefit ratio of iPSC-derived cardiomyocyte therapy given the observed arrhythmias.

reddit.com
u/Jewald — 28 days ago

Potential BPPV reccurence, always forget how scary it is. Hopefully cleared it up again...

Just trying to journal my BPPV cases as they come up as I know others are going through similar. Last one was here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BPPV/comments/1qy0umo/cervical_spine_vs_bppv_mightve_been_on_the_wrong/

That was maybe 6 months ago, hasn't popped up at least this badly until this morning flipped onto my right side and felt it, sudden, world flipping, intense spinning, etc. Went to my back and it mostly went away, but couldn't sleep from anxiety.

Got up and balance/vision very wonky, reminded myself to stay calm, think that's super important if you can.

Dix hallpike left was positive, maybe a 5/10, wasn't extremely bad. Right was negative. Last time dix was negative both sides, but I could've been doing it wrong as my bed was on the floor. This time think I did it properly.

Did half somersault, but christ the first one was way too intense I was barely able to do it. Waited 15 minutes tried again, going from looking up to head down, then turned to the left while upside down was also pretty intense.... I should've filmed my eyes but I'm usually in panic mode. I'll try to next time if I think about it. Eyes flipping pretty hard.

Waited it out in that position, about 30-40 seconds later the eyes calmed down, waited another 30 seconds, mostly went away. Tabletop and back to knees no additional vertigo, just general weirdness. Did it one more time, same deal, intense while down there, went away after about 30 seconds, hung out in that position for 30 more, then not much when coming back up. Seems pretty consistent with the crystals moving, hopefully that's it.

Following, balance still odd, had to be very careful in the shower, corners, etc. but felt a tiny bit of relief, went back to remote work, watered the garden for a hot second.

Now it's been about 3 hours, I just did another half somersault. The spinning while upside down/head turned went from a 7/10 to maybe a 1 or 2. Barely noticeable now.

In this freaked out moment, my brain wants to jump to a conclusion like "oh we're screwed" or "yippee we're cured", but I've learned not to listen to either of those voices, cause they're usually wrong. But I can say from my other rodeos usually it's an encouraging sign that within a day or two, hopefully it's cleared up once the body recalibrates.

Will try to keep the thread updated. If you don't hear anything, I'm either fine or abducted by Scientologists.

Update - vegged out entire day yesterday. was able to sleep on my side at night, felt a little hesitant at first but was fine.

woke up also a little hesitant but it's been fine. walked about a mile this morning, back to remote work. encouraging so far

reddit.com
u/Jewald — 2 months ago

Conor McGregor hints at getting stem cells (or some other regenerative medicine)

Just thought this was interesting. For those unaware, Conor came back after a long layoff last weekend.

Fight began with Conor running to the center, throws a big head kick, instantly tears his ACL. Tries to stand up, falls, fights over. Super disappointing for us fight fans, but that's the sport I guess.

Interestingly, he just posted an update on that, and mentioned he has faith in today's regenerative medicine:

https://preview.redd.it/994etpbwe8eh1.png?width=585&format=png&auto=webp&s=fe1dccd3d5a94c220739c72cd91d42e92dc14f71

Really curious where that goes. Europe seems to have a little bit looser regulations at times than the USA. I believe you can use expanded umbilical cord stem cells in many countries, and some other stuff. Luka Concic (NBA) tore his hamstring recently, saying he chose to go to Spain for stem cell therapy that was "not readily available in the US":

https://preview.redd.it/rqgltl2sf8eh1.png?width=772&format=png&auto=webp&s=f6291d946afcc3c6063a91798c8146340a00128d

https://www.hoopshype.com/story/sports/nba/2026/04/11/luka-doncic-visited-daughters-in-slovenia-after-completing-first-round-of-therapy-in-madrid/89568142007/

Not quite sure what he had done, or what's available in Spain legally, but it's interesting.

Additionally, Jon Jones (UFC GOAT) has arthritic hips, got stem cells done somewhere this past year:

https://preview.redd.it/tmfj2yp4g8eh1.png?width=681&format=png&auto=webp&s=7f230884de5edf26ba8f3716d68695b36be3a254

Recently said "stem cells must be working":

https://preview.redd.it/eeastl68g8eh1.png?width=459&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b1d57b5f9d82c341b247922333d63fd8d5eca2f

Not really scientific, as these athletes also have all the money in the world for the best doctors/PTs/cells/hyperbarics/whatever they want, but these are certainly interesting anecdotes.

If some of these athletes return to sport, and then win, it can have a pretty big effect on broader awareness. We've seen this before actually.

Kobe Bryant I believe tore his achilles around 2010, went to Germany for something similar to PRP, and then returned to the NBA. This piqued a lot of public interest in regen med...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1798763-what-is-this-knee-treatment-kobe-bryant-goes-all-the-way-to-germany-for

Curious to hear what Conor ends up doing.

reddit.com
u/Jewald — 3 months ago

MEDIPOST treated first stem cell patient in the US. Get ready for some real stem cell science....

If you're curious, here's a great example of "real" stem cell science, and it's awesome!

YSB

Medipost is a Korean company using umbilical cord blood derived MSCs, primarily for knee arthritis, their main product is called Cartistem.

They've been approved in Korea for a long time, passed their Phase 3 trial in Japan recently, and based on the mountain of evidence from those countries, the FDA allowed them to basically skip the line and go right to the last trial before approval.

That just started today:

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20260707061849/en/MEDIPOST-Inc.-Treats-First-U.S.-Participant-in-Phase-III-Trial-of-Umbilical-Cord-Stem-Cell-Therapy-for-Symptomatic-Cartilage-Defects-Due-to-Knee-Osteoarthritis?_gl=1*o131rm*_gcl_au*MTMxNzc3MjA2OS4xNzgzMzUwMTUy*_ga*NzIyNzUyMzUzLjE3ODMzNTAxNTI.*_ga_ZQWF70T3FK*czE3ODM1MTYzOTckbzckZzEkdDE3ODM1MTY0MTEkajQ2JGwwJGgw

Note they're not using Youtube shorts, anecdotes done up fancy and posted on social media, charisma, or pretending there's no such thing as placebo. Completely different ballgame, and there are a handful of companies doing the same.

Just to sum up Cartistem's history:

1 - Multiple placebo-controlled studies, both in Korea and Japan, pretty big ones, that passed. Not perfect, but pretty good. They did this maybe 15+ years ago in Korea, treated I think 30-40K patients already, it's popular over there. They just finished the Phase 3 trial in Japan recently, believe it passed there.

2 - Before/after camera images of the cartilage being regenerated (a lot of knee procedures are done via sticking a camera in there), for instance here, looks beautiful right? (for context, those holes are artificially drilled into the knee for this procedure, it's called "microdrilling")

https://preview.redd.it/z0xhjv38f2ch1.png?width=3510&format=png&auto=webp&s=8322508a0d3ce47d074da6dc954f6a3664a8c131

3 - Of course, before/after MRI imaging with placebo.

4 - But, and this is why I love Medipost, they took it even further, and sent biopsies of those patients' knees to an independent, third party lab, who was blinded as to who was treated and who wasn't, and had them analyze "what type of cells are these". They confirmed it was regenerating.

So now, they're doing one Phase 3 trial in the USA, and if it passes, they won't have to do the other trials.

Really curious how this goes, and if/how it might affect CCI, and the broader stem cell industry. Also curious if physicians will be able to use it off-label for other indications... like CCI 😎. Will see

reddit.com
u/Jewald — 3 months ago

Really sad, but interesting MSC trial just failed when placebo was introduced

There's a company in Australia doing iPSC-derived MSCs, if you don't know what that is, could ask ChatGPT, but here's a really quick overview:

You can take an adult cell (skin cell, blood cell, etc.) and reverse it back into a super powerful stem cell, almost as powerful/versatile as an embryonic stem cell, which is able to create every tissue in the body. Doing this in the lab is called an induced pluripotent stem cell, or iPSC. You are inducing (forcing) it to become pluripotent (can turn into many things).

You can take that iPSC and make mesenchymal stem cells, which are used in orthopedics and some other indications like autoimmune stuff etc, and you can make a buttload of them this way without a bone marrow aspiration.

This company, Cynata Therapeutics, just put that to the test in a Phase 3 trial of those iPSC-derived MSCs for knee osteoarthritis, with a placebo arm. It was a big deal for the industry, I think the first company to attempt this (though don't quote me).

Sorta surprisingly, the problem wasn't that the stem cell group didn't report improvement, they actually improved really well. The problem is, the placebo group also reported the same improvement. This, of course, means it failed, and there's something else happening.

The CEO had some interesting remarks about why. His theory is basically that people have seen stuff online about stem cells, there's a huge enthusiasm for them for just about anything, especially orthopedics. So much so, if you tell the patient that's what they're getting, they're likely to report improvement, even if it's just saline. However, it's important to note that iPSC-derived MSCs are very new, and not what is injected in pretty much any CCI situation (yet).

There have been a few attempts at placebo-controlled trials for orthopedic stem cells:

  • Mayo Clinic did an interesting study. Patients with bilateral (both knees) knee arthritis received bone marrow-derived MSCs in one knee and saline in the other; both knees improved at about the same rate.
  • Duke conducted a study that randomized patients to receive steroids (control), stromal vascular fraction (adipose-derived MSCs), bone marrow-derived MSCs, or umbilical cord tissue, all of which reported about the same improvement.

 

There are however some positive ones, like Cartistem from Korea, which is MSCs made from umbilical cord blood. They showed great improvement over placebo, and even confirmed cartilage regeneration via biopsy/cameras in the knee iirc. That company just passed its Phase 3 in Japan, and is starting in the US sometime this year; pretty hopeful for them.

There are a handful of others in the pipeline too, so it's not all doom gloom and scams.

But, it does beg an uncomfortable question in CCI... what happens if we did a placebo controlled trial? Truly, what would happen here? We've seen that the stem cell group reportedly shows subjective improvement, based on the PICL app/charts posted on reddit. But, what would a placebo group show? I don't have any insider knowledge, so of course it's just an unanswered question, but I feel it's a very important one. And not just PICL, but the same goes for posteriors or other therapies from any random clinic.

If the data showed most of what the success stories (even my own, gulp) is actually placebo, think about how far the train is from the station. Many people who have given their retirements, second mortgage on their home, I sold my lovely jeep, etc. already.

There are also a lot of people who can't afford the injections, but are told it's pretty much the only option, and suffer a lot because of that.

That's been on my mind a lot recently, of course I would want to know, and think patients deserve the right to know the answer to that, but it's very awkward to think about.

u/Jewald — 3 months ago

Guts & Glory: Both of Cynata’s iPSC Trials Flop, GVH Phase 2 and KOA Phase 3

Sad moment for the industry, and especially for Australia’s iPSC developer, Cynata Therapeutics. 

We obtained a copy of their investor webinar announcing the results from its two iPSC-derived mesenchymal stem cell (MSC) trials. The Phase 3 trial for knee osteoarthritis (KOA) and the Phase 2 trial for graft-versus-host disease both failed to meet their primary or secondary endpoints (though both appeared safe and well tolerated).

The webinar opens with executive chairman, Jeff Brooks, “Like everybody else, we’re quite more than disappointed and quite shocked by the results we’ve seen last week. I just can’t tell you how disappointed we are. Everybody’s put their heart and soul into this for a number of years…”

Dr Kilian Kelly, CEO of Cynata, continued with readouts and details of the trials. Since then, the stock has lost over 96% of its value:

https://preview.redd.it/yor44f15ihbh1.png?width=695&format=png&auto=webp&s=4980124749fcb22ca3b50f33e3f1233e60c4ab2a

Phase 3 KOA

Unlike GVH, Cynata has not attempted a previous trial for KOA. However, there is a wealth of data for this indication; it seems to be the hottest target and the largest market for stem cell therapy. Everybody’s got a bum knee.

The existing data can be mixed, but there are promising therapies such as Cartistem by Medipost (Korea), which is umbilical cord blood-derived MSCs + scaffold. They’ve had positive Phase 3s in Japan/Korea, and will begin in the US this year. 

Building on that, Cynata appears to be the first to attempt iPSC-derived MSCs for this indication (though I could be wrong). The active group had a decrease in pain “in line with expectations”, a 50%, but…. The same was true for the placebo group, with about 48.1% of patients achieving a similar reduction. 

“Needless to say, this was not statistically significant,” Dr. Kelly said. The secondary endpoint, cartilage thickness assessed via MRI, showed greater cartilage loss in the active group than in the control group. 

Dr. Kelly made a few interesting remarks on why this may have occurred:

  • The issue obviously wasn’t that the active group didn’t perform; it was that placebo performed just as well. Pain is a very subjective endpoint, and OA trials are well known for large placebo effects, especially when the administration involves an injection as opposed to a pill. 
  • Probably one of the most interesting takes was how the amplified enthusiasm around stem cell therapies may have affected outcomes. It’s all over social media, often seen as a panacea; there’s a lot of hype. If a patient hears Joe Rogan say stem cells regrew his rotator cuff, and believes they’re getting the same therapy, they’re very likely to report progress on subjective outcomes.
    • Mayo Clinic did an interesting study on this. Patients with bilateral KOA received bone marrow-derived MSCs in one knee and saline in the other; both knees improved at about the same rate.
    • Duke conducted a study that randomized patients to receive steroids (control), stromal vascular fraction (adipose-derived MSCs), bone marrow-derived MSCs, or umbilical cord tissue, all of which reported about the same improvement.

 

Phase 2 GVH

This was perhaps more surprising, because the only proven MSC indication is actually GVH. There is one single FDA-approved MSC therapy, Ryoncil, which is allogeneic, bone marrow-derived, and effective when administered IV. 

Given that, Cynata ran a Phase 1 using its iPSC-derived MSCs for this indication, with good results. A total of 15 patients were treated with CYP-001:

  • Overall response rate by Day 100 was 86.7% – 13 out of 15 patients showed an improvement in GvHD severity by at least one grade compared to baseline
  • Complete response rate by Day 100 was 53% – GvHD signs and symptoms completely resolved in 8 out of 15 patients

However, in Phase 2, the results were inconsistent with those in Phase 1. Dr. Kelly noted the primary endpoint (overall response rate) saw a “very slightly higher… rate in the active group of about 57.7%, but that was compared to 54.8% in the control group. We hoped it would have been much higher than that”

On the secondary endpoints (day 28 complete response rate, day 100 overall response rate/overall survival rate, etc.), “it’s largely a similar pattern with no significant differences between groups”. The overall survival rate at day 100 was “nominally higher” in the active vs. control group, but it was “hard to kind of draw any conclusions from”. 

He addressed the question, how is this possible after a great Phase 1? 

  • The Phase 1 had a “slightly different” patient population. It was comprised of patients who had already failed to respond to steroids, and at the time, there were no other approved therapies available.
  • But, by the time Phase 2 began, the treatment landscape changed. Ruxolitinib (a JAK inhibitor) had been approved and became the standard of care for GVH. To avoid withholding an approved therapy from very sick patients, Cynata instead enrolled newly diagnosed patients before ruxolitinib would typically be given. 
  • However, many patients in the trial ultimately received ruxolitinib anyway. According to the trial protocol, once they switched therapies, they were counted as non-responders. Dr. Kelly questioned whether clinicians “waited long enough to allow the MSCs to work,” though he acknowledged physicians appropriately prioritized patient care over the study.
  • Cynata also considered combining its iPSC-derived MSCs with ruxolitinib, but felt that approach had drawbacks. Their cells have demonstrated a “very clean safety profile,” while ruxolitinib is associated with significant side effects. Combining the two could eliminate that safety advantage, and proving an additional benefit over a drug with roughly a 60% response rate would likely require a much larger trial.
  • Another option was enrolling only patients who had already failed both steroids and ruxolitinib. However, Dr. Kelly said there are very few such patients, and those who do exist are typically “very sick,” making recruitment and trial execution extremely challenging.

What’s next?

Despite the disappointing outcomes, Dr. Kelly maintained that the results do not invalidate the underlying iPSC platform. “I still believe in the platform and its ability to make MSCs that are very consistent and functional and potent.” He added that the company’s challenge is now determining how future development can be funded.

For now, the company is cutting costs, expects to receive an Australian R&D tax incentive later this year, and is evaluating all strategic options while continuing its kidney transplant study, which is funded by an external partner. 

Given these results, it begs an uncomfortable question. If an iPSC-derived MSC product failed to separate from placebo in a Phase 3 trial, what would happen if many of the cell therapies currently marketed in the U.S., including BMAC and birth tissue products, were held to the same standard? How much of the benefit is true biological effect, and how much is placebo? 

u/Jewald — 3 months ago

FDA Approves Blood Cancer Stem Cell Treatment, TREGZI

Pretty cool.

https://www.fda.gov/media/193424/download?attachment=&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

This is from a company called Orca Bio in Sacramento, it appears to be their first approval, with a handful of others in the pipeline.

Real broad strokes of what this is:

The therapy is called TREGZI, it's used for people with blood cancer.

If you have blood cancer, not that long ago we discovered you can take someone else's blood stem cells and transplant them into you, which helps your body make healthy blood, but sometimes comes with a condition called graft-vs-host disease (GVH).

Kinda similar to how your body can reject an organ transplant, but it's really nasty when it happens as it's systemic. Ironically, the only proven mesenchymal stem cell therapy (ryoncil) is used for this, it can calm the immune system down in GVH.

TREGZI, from what I understand, seems to handle all of that in one. It's a combination of allogeneic (donor-derived) blood stem cells, with engineered T-Regs (special immune cells) that fight off cancer and GVH.

They did a Phase 3 trial, showed it worked, FDA approved yesterday. I'm not a regulatory expert, but I imagine in 6-12 months it may be covered by insurance, medicare, etc.

When my dad was a little boy, his mom passed from Leukemia, so this hits home.

reddit.com
u/Jewald — 4 months ago

Tennesee doctor interview on the new stem cell laws. Things are changing...

https://www.actionnews5.com/video/2026/06/08/doctor-explains-new-law-that-establishes-stem-cell-therapy-tennessee/

That's Tennessee, Utah, Florida, Georgia, Wyoming, likely others with new laws allowing for new, potentially more powerful stem cell treatments outside of bone marrow concentrate.

Time will tell whether this is a net good or bad. The industry has long been notorious for grifters lining their pockets with half-truths, and that is accelerating.

However, the positive side is patients will have access to new therapies, which can be done responsibly. If I'm a physician, I'm tripling down on informed consent (long discussions on what we know/don't know), regularly gathering and publishing my data, and telling people this isn't the sort of thing to stretch yourself thin on... meaning don't give me your retirement, don't take out a second mortgage, and don't get your hopes up.

Ironically, any clinic that shares that attitude would crush it right now!

But regardless, good for patients to know what's happening, there's a lot changing at both state and federal level right now. Controlled deregulation seems to be a step in the right direction.

If, and it's a huge if, let's say mesenchymal stem cells from the umbilical cord works well the slew of things it's being studied for: TBI, autoimmune conditions, orthopedics, stroke, aging, etc. This is bigger than people understand because the production could be completely decentralized, without a big pharma supply chain.

I often think about my times volunteering in the Bangkok slums. My first day they took me on a tour, which I'll never forget. Those people have 0 access to anything... they can't afford food, let alone Pfizer.

A lot of them are very sick, and sadly, they progress until they die, and that is just life for a lot of people outside of our Western bubble. We likely have folks in similar situations on this sub.

This is the sort of thing that could be manufactured at a tiny rural hospital at a price that reflects the local purchasing power. But it's up to the developed nations to do things the right way and raise the scientific bar here, not just for CCI but regen med as a whole.

I'm pretty excited for the future of regen med, which will bleed into CCI.

u/Jewald — 4 months ago