u/Material-Party

So disregarding the edtion war for a moment, what do you think about the radically reworked humanity for V6?

Do you think it's actually a good idea to change the liner bar from V20/5 to a forsaken 2e style balance scale. Or do you think it's a bad, purely bad idea.

Or maybe you think that V6 humanity has some merit, but VtM isn't the right setting for it.

So V6 has revealed a radically redesigned humanity bar that's split between mortal and monstrous. Certain actions on the players can do will raise (moving closer to mortal) or lower (moving closer to monstrous) they "position" on the bar.

While going on both ends of the bar would give players buff in certain situations. Going too far in either direction would penlize players and eventually make they character unplayable. Meaning the optimal position is in the middle. Making it a balancing act compeared to Humanity bars of past editions.

Which has invited compresions to simullar morality system, the Harmony bar from werewolf the forsaken 2nd edition of all games. Where it's also a balancing act where the optimal position is like V6 are in the middle of the bar. The major diffrances is that there's no buff for going to either side of the bar.

Which makes me think about W5 dual mortality bars. Like the Hauglosk and Harano bars actually operate closer to old humanity bar than anything else. Like I wonder if W6 if it ever comes out, would also adopt a V6 style morality bar since theoretically you easily just combine Hauglosk and Harano into one bar. Hell a ST could theoretically back port V6 morality bar into W5 if the worst case scenario comes to pass.

So V6 has revealed a radically redesigned humanity bar that's split between mortal and monstrous. Certain actions on the players can do will raise (moving closer to mortal) or lower (moving closer to monstrous) they "position" on the bar.

While going on both ends of the bar would give players buff in certain situations. Going too far in either direction would penlize players and eventually make they character unplayable. Meaning the optimal position is in the middle. Making it a balancing act compeared to Humanity bars of past editions.

Which has invited compresions to simullar morality system, the Harmony bar from werewolf the forsaken 2nd edition of all games. Where it's also a balancing act where the optimal position is like V6 are in the middle of the bar. The major diffrances is that there's no buff for going to either side of the bar.

Which makes me think about W5 dual mortality bars. Like the Hauglosk and Harano bars actually operate closer to old humanity bar than anything else. Like I wonder if W6 if it ever comes out, would also adopt a V6 style morality bar since theoretically you easily just combine Hauglosk and Harano into one bar. Hell a ST could theoretically back port V6 morality bar into W5 if the worst case scenario comes to pass.

Like how do you guys feel about V6 morality bar compared to W5.

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So apparently, during a V6 pre-release q&a, it was revealed that the Giovanni took over the leadership of the Hecata and reverted back to the Giovanni clan, like a Italian chest buster. Meaning the Hecata are at best reduced to sect at worst outright dead.

Like, what's the logic behind that move. Beyond just nostalgia bating, like it might not be applied consistently since the ministry hasn't been renamed to the Setites in this alpha.

Now it seems that overcorrection is the direction whitewolf chose for this edtion. Which all but assured that W6 would actually de-emphasis to outright remove the activist metaphor and by extension lore to focus more on bane fighting.

How much could whitewolf conceivably remove before the whole thing falls apart? My personal minimum is LANCER, a inde mech game that advertised to have a setting really deep and Rich lore. But in practice, the players have no meaningful way to mechanically interact with it and at best only serve as a backdrop for mecha fights.

Worst case scenario is whitewolf turning WTA into checkers an game where the lore boils down to different colour pieces fighting each other.

Since V6 introduced the concept of clan Frenzy (and to a lesser extent compulsion from v5), I wonder if it could be translated to W6 (assuming it comes out in the first place) into tribal hauglosk?

There's some presdence for this concept since the cancelled hunter entertainment of W5 has explored this concept as this excerpt from an ex developer patron has shown:

The Ghreena* of the Glass Walkers is the sterilization of the Wyld.

The Glass Walkers flip the usual narrative of the Triat represented by Garou on its head, suggesting that the Wyld is at fault for driving the Weaver mad, which resulted in its machinations on the Wyrm. They will turn the tools of the Weaver on the Wyld with intent, building dams that provide "clean energy" while destroying ecosystems, genetically modifying crops to make them more durable against weather and pests, or creating low carbon footprint technologies which require mining operations that poison animals, people, and waterways. Many Glass Walkers favor terraforming the "undesirable" aspects of Gaia, such as deserts, by diverting waterways and creating solar panel fields that make these spaces more hospitable for humanity. They might claim that these actions are made out of a need for progress, but they seek out the sterilization of unstable qualities in the environment.

*the cancelled edition term for hauglosk.

Besides the Glass Walkers going full techbros,I wonder what other forms tribal hauglosk would be. Like I imagine, the sliver fangs would fall under a Quixotesque delusion. Usually Not in the sense that they sense of reality is so warped that that they see they world as a fantasy novel but more that they believe and act like they're the protagonist of they story and are prone to hysterics to things that might contest that notation.

If nothing else, this version of hauglosk is much more flavor than W5 version and would be much more interesting system. Especially if you use v6's Forsaken inspired humanity system as a replacement for w5 hauglosk and harano bars.

For context, the V6 pre alpha has received a major rework to the humanity system where, instead of a linear bar where higher is better. In contrast, v6 humanity it's more of a balanced scale akin to the Harmony bar Werewolf the Forsaken 2nd edition where the optimal position a player should be is 5 (beast for low and human for high), and to grossly simplefiy things going in either extremes would sometimes give the players character buffs for certain situations but mostly detrimental effcts upt to what's effectively play charcter Death where they are rendered as NPCs.

Meanwhile, W5 just gives you two bars that fill up in different situations and basically means death if either of them fills up.

Also, as a slight diversion from my main point, I think the clan specific frenzies v6 introduces should inform how Hauglosk works in a hypothetical W6. Instead of just W5 version where it's simply a nazi mind virus, Hauglosk should show case the specific psychosis of individual tribes where their philosophy was taken to the extremes.

Like an exprept from JF Sambrano's parton already has an example from a cancelled version of w5 where the Glass Walkers go full techbro.

To quote:

The Ghreena* of the Glass Walkers is the sterilization of the Wyld.

The Glass Walkers flip the usual narrative of the Triat represented by Garou on its head, suggesting that the Wyld is at fault for driving the Weaver mad, which resulted in its machinations on the Wyrm. They will turn the tools of the Weaver on the Wyld with intent, building dams that provide "clean energy" while destroying ecosystems, genetically modifying crops to make them more durable against weather and pests, or creating low carbon footprint technologies which require mining operations that poison animals, people, and waterways. Many Glass Walkers favor terraforming the "undesirable" aspects of Gaia, such as deserts, by diverting waterways and creating solar panel fields that make these spaces more hospitable for humanity. They might claim that these actions are made out of a need for progress, but they seek out the sterilization of unstable qualities in the environment.

*the old term for hauglosk.

Like the players dealing with a glass Walker trying to boot strap his preparatory LLM into a AGI sprit that could somehow seal away the wyrm is awesome plot line.

So, in light of the apparent push towards legacy being a major focus of 6E if what little lore V6 pre alpha play test has revealed. This leads me to wonder what it means for other 5E gamine if White Wolf consistently applies this back to legacy approach. Especially for W5...

Now, H5 is theoretically simple. Just take the Vligil approach and have the imbued one of the many Hunter types the player can be. Now W5 is a different beast.

Now, We all know that W5 is explicitly made to be a different setting to legacy, and White wolf current return to legacy approach runs totally counter to that.

There's two ways I could see White Wolf could approach this problem.

One is simply to end the W5 setting with an apocalypse book clearing the Bord for a return to legacy or at least another reboot.

The second possibly is paradox for reasons raging from trying to retain the W5 fanbase to being uncomfortable with the concept of kinfolk and metis deems directly going back to legacy a no starter in they eyes.

This means that White Wolf would try to add events that bring the W5 setting closer to legacy like the more moderate section of the Cult purging most of they more extreme members and rebrand back to the Get and the founding of the New Garou Republic.

of course, there's also a third option, like White Wolf retconing W5 to have always been a sequel to legacy and not a reboot as futile effort to appease both legacy and w5 fans.

what form would w6 take whine it comes out...IF it comes out...