u/Mokpa

So I’d been considering adopting a cognomen since adopting Hellenism, and because I finally expressly renounced Catholicism yesterday (and then they schism today? Stonks. Anyway…)

Since I renounced Catholicism, it feels like I should also renounce my Confirmation name, Thomas. Even though it was for a beloved ancestor, its relationship to doubt has no place in my life anymore. I’ve moved beyond doubt. I’m not saying I’m certain — as the saying goes, the opposite of faith isn’t doubt, it’s certainty.

Most recently, I’ve entered into communion with Calliope, Goddess of Eloquence and Muse of Epic Poetry. It’s the closest relationship I’ve yet achieved with a Θεός. While others that I enter communion with will receive another such devotional act, this is the first. As such, even if she is not my patron(ess), she deserves pride of place. In my name. In lieu of a Confirmation name, which appeared between the given and family name, I adopt this as a Cognomen. I do so in the fashion of my ancestors, first-conquered neighbors of Rome, those who brought Phoebus Apollo to the seven hills of our conquerors.

I am Callidorus. Gift from Calliope (or Gifted by Calliope? Whichever sounds less arrogant) (I mean… Apollodorus was a name, this can’t be any worse. The longer forms are… unlucky. Calliodorus contains “odorous,” and just adding -dorus onto Calliope is even worse)

And I adopt it into my name. I am now, and henceforth, [Don’t] [Doxxmyself] Callidorus. Nice to meet you.

When entering communities dominated by women, I always feel the need to justify my existence in this space. Forgive me if this is well-trod ground.

I’m a cis man he/him, and that’s true even after a great deal of soul searching (this is a Hellenic sub, can I say omphaloskepsis here?). Despite that, there’s a part of me that has very female energy and I cherish that part. It’s part of who I am, but that’s not all I am.

I’ve always been drawn to Venus, and she’s always been close to me. When I read the Aeneid in Latin, I imagined how wonderful it would be to have as close a relationship with divinity as Anchises did.

I saw Venus Capitolina twice - once when she was in Washington DC, and a year later back in her niche at the Capitoline Museum. As displayed in D.C., Our Lady was in the middle of the room, and could be viewed from all angles. I walked in circles around her for what must have been half an hour, so enthralled was I with her presence. In Rome she was in a niche, could only be viewed from the front, and I wasn’t traveling alone so could not stay looking at her for as long.

She was the same beautiful enigma I had encountered in Catholic school. She is a Goddess, and a fully sexual being. She is proud of who she is. My only other experience with women and divinity was the Virgin Mary. Aphrodite’s confidence in her own skin astonished and overawed me.

Except, I’m a man. Despite a brief consideration that I could be non-binary during the pandemic, I’m comfortable with how I was born. I look forward to committing treason against the patriarchy at the moment it is most crucial. That’s neither here nor there.

I learned a little while ago about Venus Barbata - Bearded Venus. A cult of male devotees of Venus who presented as masc. It felt like home. Like being around Bears at Pride. Feeling loved and cherished in the softest way masculinely possible.

As with accepting my place as a Witch recently also comes with accepting my relationship with Venus Barbata and Aphrodite Pandemos. (I prefer Strega for cultural reasons but I don’t want to be confused as practicing stregoneria). On a side note, my daughter is developing her own relationship with Our Lady as well. At least that’s what I assume from watching the first season of Percy Jackson and her asking when and if we would see Aphrodite.

Thank you for this wonderful and loving space.

I got talking in another thread about the surviving corpus of classical myth, and I wondered what a compilation survey text would look like. Could it all fit in one portable volume? I figured if a Christian Bible can be printed in a single portable volume, and that totals around 725k-780k words depending on the English translation, with the longest work in there being about 33k words, something similar could be done with the Corpus.

The list below represents about 30 minutes slapdash work poking around in Perseus and on Theoi.com, and another 30 minutes justifying to Nemesis why she shouldn't smite me for daring to compile this list. The Abrahamic God didn't smite Thomas Aquinas for daring to write the Summa Theologica purporting to summarize all Theology, so I feel Nemesis might let me slide on this - especially since I'm just proposing a compilation, not writing.

I put them in a very rough order of when the contents of each work occurs. I included the plays in a separate volume, which are generally listed separately and by author's lifetime, even though many of them aren't strictly myth. That's why On the Nature of the Gods, from the 1st century CE, is second. I put On Divination and the Orphic Hymns at the end because it feels like those would make a very nice closing of the survey text volume, from a somewhat different point of view - one work debating the appropriateness of divination, and a compilation of the Orphic version of the myths.

I would call the first list the "Survey Volume," and it comes to about 526k. That's about 2/3rd the length of the Christian bible. If you add the plays of Aeschylus, Euripides, Sophocles and Aristophanes (down the end), it adds about another 445k words, for a total of about 971k, or about 220k words more than the bible alone (e.g. w/o footnotes). This list also contemplates including the works in their entireties, without any omissions. Some contents could conceivably be omitted for readability, but I'm not qualified to make that judgment.

The most glaring omissions are the works of the Philosophers. I feel like that would require a lot more knowledge of those texts to parse out the writings on mythology from the rest. I know enough Cicero to pick the two that I think are the most relevant of his works to Hellenic practice (I love you, Catilinarian Orations, but you're history, not myth). I acknowledge others certainly are better-equipped to compile this list than I am, but I needed to get it out of my head so Calliope would stop bugging me.

Any thoughts on the contents of the list? The order?

[Format: Work - (Purported) Author - Word Count - Online Link]

Theogony - Hesiod - 6969 - https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0020.tlg001

On the Nature of the Gods - Cicero - 37145 - https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cts:latinLit:phi0474.phi050 

Works & Days - Hesiod - 5900 - https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0020.tlg002 

The Homeric Hymns - Unknown - 
Dionysus (I), Demeter, Apollo (II) - 10814 - https://www.theoi.com/Text/HomericHymns1.html 
Hermes (I) - 6014 - https://www.theoi.com/Text/HomericHymns2.html 
Aphrodite (I, II), Dionysus (II), Ares, Artemis (I), Aphrodite (III), Athena (I), Hera, Demeter (II), The Mother of the Gods, Heracles, Asclepius, The Dioscuri (II), Hermes (II), Pan, Hephaestus, Apollo (II), Poseidon, The Son of Cronus, Hestia (I), The Muses and Apollo, Dionysus (III), Artemis (II), Athena (II), Hestia (II), Earth-Mother of All, Helios, Selene, The Dioscuri (II) - 6921 - https://www.theoi.com/Text/HomericHymns3.html 

Bibliotheca - 'Apollodorus' - 28414 - https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0548.tlg001 

Metamorphoses - Ovid - 78023 - https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cts:latinLit:phi0959.phi006.opp-lat4 

Iliad - Homer - 115477 - https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0012.tlg001.perseus-eng2 

Odyssey - Homer - 87765 -  https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0012.tlg002.opp-grc2 

Aeneid - Virgil - 83676 - https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cts:latinLit:phi0690.phi003.perseus-lat1 

On Divination - Cicero - 28588 - https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cts:latinLit:phi0474.phi053 

Orphic Hymns - Unknown - 6694 - https://www.theoi.com/Text/OrphicHymns1.html

***

The Plays [Author - Complete Surviving Works - Word Count - Link]

Aeschylus - Complete Surviving Works - 93896 - https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cite:perseus:author.34 

Euripedes - Complete Surviving Works - 187255 - https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cite:perseus:author.601 

Sophocles - Complete Surviving Works - 79692 - https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cite:perseus:author.1307 

Aristophanes - Complete Surviving Works - 108709 - https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cite:perseus:author.202 

Hear me out.

We may not necessarily consider our texts Sacred in the way the peoples of the book do, but we still have them. There used to be more, sure. But we have them.

The oldest parts are as old as the oldest parts of the Tanakh — the Torah. They both record these great tales of heroes in ancient pasts, not recorded until hundreds of years after the fact (according to biblical scholars, classicists, and also maybe archaeologists).

Everyone still tells the stories of our Gods, still in new and creative ways just like the poets of old. And we’re luckier than most that we know what they were like before Christianity. Our brethren in Northern Europe are far from as fortunate.

So, really, aren’t we best case scenario? We know our Gods’ stories, we know what worship looked like over centuries, and we can pick up where they left off, or we can forge our own paths.

I’m glad to be on this path with you, κοινωνοί, koinonoi, companions.

Very new Hellenist, but it’s always been hovering around me for my entire life. Not only was I Catholic, I was very Catholic. Altar server (make a joke and I block you, it isn’t funny), lector, even president of my parish council. Catholic HS and College. Always loved Classics, took 12 credits in it in college. Always felt kinda close to it. Recently, I felt the Evil Eye for the first time (also my own hubris, but that’s another story). It took my daughter’s recent interest in Greek myth to finally push me over. There were no tears, no soul-searching, it just felt like coming home.

These were the Gods of my ancestors. The Gods they brought with them from Greece to Campania. There was a cult of Pluto in Campania, according to Theoi (I haven’t checked the cite they provide yet, but it seems consistent with the presence of Lake Avernus in the region). Something about Pluto feels… right.

I use Pluto here instead of his name (even the poetic ones which I love) because I know that many seek to avoid his name from fear. I appreciate that.

I also appreciate if my devotion seems odd or frightening. He just speaks to me. He’s made mistakes, done some really bad things, but he’s trying to make up for it by being the best husband in the pantheon. He has a job. That duty is so big it overwhelmed him, so much so that his brother needed to get him help doing it (the judges of the dead). His duty is to everyone, and it’s never ending. He has people who depend on him — more people than both of his brothers combined. Eventually, everyone comes to depend on him. And he only has someone to talk to at most half the year (I’m convinced he messed with Punxsutawney Phil at LEAST once to get the winter to last longer — and I bet Persephone has too, in both directions depending on the year 😂).

He doesn’t hold a grudge against Disney. I mean… they drew a perfectly fair conclusion. Who wouldn’t resent everyone else in his position? Only him. He knows he deserves it. It happened fair and square, and the one time he wanted companionship? He committed an unforgivable crime to get it. He’s just glad Persephone forgave him. He just refuses to forgive himself.

But none of that is in the writings. It’s only in my heart, and now out here. Also in my Google docs, but that’s another story. It feels presumptuous, but it also feels true in a way Catholicism never did to me.

Anyway, thank you for your time. Nice to meet you all.

Today I even noticed it was her idea to use Dude as the decoy. Watch the background and she whispers to Carlos, who then gestured so Dude with his eyes. She decides who goes to the Isle. She’s even the one who gets the Back-to-Back-Badasses shot with Ben during the sword fight. She’s even the one who keeps Cotillion on track by starting the cheering for Mal and encouraging Mal to go to Ben. (Jane’s the final hero of Cotillion with the stained glass window though)

The only two things Evie does wrong are plot- required: 1) Losing Ben on the Isle, and 2) putting Mal in effing YELLOW for cotillion t indicate Mal’s unease with Auradon. It’s hard to dress Dove poorly, and the costume designer earned their pay on that dress. She shows that she knows she messed up when you see thee alterations at Cotillion. Edit: oh, and not thinking to include Carlos and Jay in the discussion of Mal and the Isle

I don’t have it all together in one place, but I think there’s something there? Is Evie… Chloe? The slutty bitch with the secret heart of gold?

Like... essentially it is what it says on the tin. ESPECIALLY the last sentence.

In Canon, Jane is sooooooooooooo close to the wand for SO LONG in D3 that THE SUN SETS AND THE SECOND SCENE IS IN DARKNESS WHEN THE FIRST WAS BROAD DAYLIGHT (D3 takes place over the single longest day in the world. Easily like 36 hours.) But Jane's soooo close to having the power next to Maleficent's (at least in D1 - but in D3 it was the Ember? But then why didn't Maleficent give it to Mal to get the wand and bust them out? Because she didn't have it, and she and Hades were Very Divorced).

So what if Jane's father was... Also Hades? The most villainous man on the Isle who, at the end of the day, wasn't created to BE evil. He feels like he was forced into evil, but he chose it freely. So he's here. But Mal's Dark Side because she'll resort to violence faster than Jane, whereas Jane will use violence as a cold, calculating last resort. She won't be happy. But she can live with herself if she does.

Jane in turn helps Evie access those darkest parts of her, the parts Evie needs to be the ruthless High Queen Auradon both needs and deserves. Not the Evil Queen, but a Great Queen. Like Belle before her. Empress in all but title. But still under Ben. Beast is that more villainous past. It's Ben's title now. Ben's Crown. Ben's throne. Ben will shape its destiny, but he can't do that without Evie. She's the power behind the throne. Evie exists to serve Ben's story in one world, but that's Canon. Where Ben ends up with Mal. She never does. When she does, it becomes Mal's story. But by that's what makes this Evie's story. Ben's the hero of another story. He's just... here. Mal is the hero of Canon. She conquers all. She wants to make it all hers. This is not that story.

And Evie appreciates that. She has her own place. She's not at the center, but she's in the center of her own world. And this is that world. This is Evie's story, of how she is a Great Queen. She is an Empress, her blood will never change. But that's the core of her. She can't live in that world anymore, because worlds like that are gone. Exiled to the cold harsh vacuum of Reality.

Rosas. Evie's crown by right. Because her father was Magnifico of Rosas. And while Evie loves Queen Amaya like a mother, Evie knows that she can't follow in the steps Amaya has. Amaya tries to control Evie. Tries to do what SHE thinks is best for Auradon. But Evie isn't right for Auradon. Ben is. And only together can they be their best selves.

Mal can have the Isle. Protector of the Isle for Queen Evelyn Lilian Victoria Beatrix Margarethe Grimhilde. Evie has Rosas. Rosas is lovely. In name only, does she have Germonia. Its founding president passed, and by his death he had softened on Evie. It gave her its crown. Someday it may invite her back, but she doesn't want it. It's got this on its own. If all it needs is her Crown, then so be it.

But this is where we are. A world where Jane brings out the darkest in Evie, and it needs to happen from time to time. And that's okay. It's where Evie feels most powerful, and that power melts Ben. He cannot reach that part of him, and never can, lest it destroy him. But he's good out here. This is his place, on this side of Evie's story.

But in the end, it's Evie's story. It doesn't show the deepest pits of Ben. Down that road lies destruction and self-delusion. He needs a reality check once in a while, despite how good he truly is for Auradon. Evie provides that reality check for Ben just as much as Jane does for Evie. And as Carlos does for Jane. Jane doesn't have far to be pulled back, but it's okay.

Long walk for a short drink of water, but I think that Evie would occasionally top Ben.

I just had the idea that Evie can’t resist giving Ben a hickey on a different part of his body every single day, and now it’s your problem too.