u/OverallCarry5276

No valid understanding of the story doesn't have EOS Yuta significantly stronger than start of Shinjuku Yuta

Every statement or implication, if you think they're valid of Hakari ~ Yuta kinda stops mattering by EOS

Hakari didn't get any better at doing anything as far as we're aware

Yuta has Gojo's memories, expirience with high level jujutsu techniques, and expirience fighting one of the strongest sorcerors ever

Hakari and Yuta are not relative???

If you truly believe Kashimo was intended to be stronger than what the manga showed

Or that Yuki is a monster that takes down anyone below Kenjaku one punch man style

Make it concrete

It's subjective, but still interesting

Who's gonna be portayed as stronger?

Personally taking Yuki's side any day of the week

If you truly believe Kashimo was intended to be stronger than what the manga showed

Or that Yuki is a monster that takes down anyone below Kenjaku one punch man style

Make it concrete

Who's gonna be portayed as stronger?

Personally taking Yuki's side any day of the week

Yuki and her opponent / the environment expirience 2 different versions of Yuki in the fight

Yuki doesn't expirience any effect from having increased mass, she's not slower / more durable simple but people mix this up with external forces all the time

They do expirience the Yuki with added mass. Yuki is heavier to push around, denser to strike, the momentum the ground pushes back at her is an insane speed boost

That also means Kenjaku's surehit and AGS reversal obliterated her because she was so heavy, increasing gravity crushed her

1- "Yuki is slow"

No?? We literally see both her and Yuta barely outspeed an AGS activation. Throwing hands with the best h2h skill character we know of. Yuta had a sneak attack on a weakened Kenjaku at that.

Why is Yuki fast? She literally uses star rage to give her legs more mass and thus more momentum to push off the ground with.

2- "She's weak after she takes any damage"

She was obliterated by a domain sure hit?? Her limbs were literally mangled. At that, the surehit was much stronger because she was heavy as hell (from an external pov).

Even then, she has incredible rct, it's not she's dead even from a strong attack

3- "she's a glass cannon"

?? Kinda misleading as hell, we have no reason to assume Kenjaku / Kashimo / Uraume / Jogo (probably more) are any different - Oh let me guess, they all have crazy efficiency huh?

At that, hitting her might aswell be striking yourself just as hard because of newtons 3rd law. If she can push her density to a black hole she can push it to tungsten.

It's literally just a better defense than Kashimo's passive aura

4- "She has no feats"

Yes she does, that's going high diff against an opponent the entire cast wondered if they could all beat together start of shinjuku - using the best counter technique in the series

Even had Kenjaku worrying if he could beat her (he was very confident that Yuta was overrated by Gojo and didn't feel threatened)

5- "She only ignores concepts that target her"

Where did this come from? You're telling me out of 10 million cursed spirits Kenjaku could use, not one avoids targetting an opponent? Not one?

You just assumed a limit to her abilties. Cursed Technique effects, don't practically work on her - simple as that. Opponents have to dilute their abilities so much they don't even work anymore

6 -"It's not a oneshot"

Advanced rct user only survived from getting his arms blown off. Kashimo and Yorozu die or are so debilitated they can't fight back

Hakari isn't making it to jackpot against her

All the other HH and JP Hakari are taking severe damage from this attack

It even pulls you towards her (opponent had anti-gravity unlucky)

Are there really no other Yuki fans in this era? What has this sub fallen to?

Only time I'll even have a "might" on one of my posts.

Oh my goodness, scrolling through my pictures I even realised this is consistent with Dabura too

Yuki has imaginary mass, she doesn't feel it but the world around her does. Mass causes gravity, she won't feel it (up to a certain point) but her opponents will

Motion lines similiarly play a part in how Gege portays the story. Notice how Yuki's punches warp the motion lines (the black and white lines that show speed) to converge into her fist.

This is literally consistent with when we see gravitational warping in jjk. The motion lines even become super violent and exaggerated when she pushes into a black hole.

This is the same as Dabura, as he pushes closer to light he's literally warping the space around him because of his speed. As you get faster you increase gravity in the direction you travel (the Dabura lightpseed lines are the same as the black hole lines just in a direction)

At that Dabura warps the photons around him to follow his path because of his speed. Even Dabura's CTR is pulling things in a circle around him (even confirmed by motion lines)

Yuki clearly pulls opponents to her attacks when she ramps up Star Rage, this is actually crazy.

Of course, she fought the one character with anti-gravity as their CT

people are just gonna say I'm dumb and leave cause they know they can't prove me wrong.

From her opponents pov Yuki is literally a tungsten wall

Just as much force as she is hit with, she hits back considering how dense she really is

It's this thing called the normal force, it doesn't usually hit too hard on a regular human because we're squishy and the energy sends us flying. But that is not true against Yuki who won't get flung because she's so heavy from her opponents pov and similiarly isn't squishy.

A sword is far tougher and deals more damage as because it's dense, considering Yuki falling down destroyed Tengen's floor - she is way, way, way more dense than a regular sword

Though it won't make her more durable - it will harm her opponents significantly for trying to hurt her. It's not perfect but a full counter for any physical attack is work

Unless you literally think Kashimo's passive ce trait around him (not the sure hit) is hitting harder than a HH punch, Yuki's star rage is way stronger defensively.

Just the ce trait around Kashimo, surely these travel around at the same speed and do similiar damage right? (not the whole buildup thing)

Just the ce trait around Kashimo, surely these travel around at the same speed and do similiar damage right?

Edit: Oh my days, just the part that lifts the cargo containers, not the blow your head buildup part

Guys, I'll be transparent cause I'm not really much of an Mha powerscaler, I'm a jjk powerscaler

But is it crazy to say that 99% of Mha cross battle strength is literally just:

• Character displays some obviously inconsistent strength not meant to be literally calculated
• Upscale the characters strength to some ridiculous regard
• Whole verse upscales from their interation to this one specific character
• Continental, ftl Mha

Like am I crazy? Almost no fandoms do this with their characters.

Like no, you can't prove these characters are even a blitz tier above Mahito / Yuki

They are overwhelmingly likely to get hit and debilitated in a single attack

And yes these are pretty much onetaps, especially Mahito - no a grade 1 surviving Idle Transfiguration when Mahito barely understood his CT doesn't reflect its lethality later on

Arguing he's a blitz tier above everybody else is one of the only ways you can even concieve him being t5

But he isn't, like 90% of the arguements for his speed is that Sukuna was relative to Kashimo in base, then Kashimo in MBA was overwhelming him, so like that puts him above characters like Yuta

Bro, the only interaction with pre-MBA Kashimo was him running straight at Sukuna, jumping into the air, and slamming his rod like are we deadass

that has to be the most telegraphed attack he could've used in this situation

Sukuna failing to react to his punches after he releases whilst they're fighting in close range is not a feat, it's the damn expectation

Like Sukuna is missing a hand, half his face, his other hand is holding Kamotuke, and the guy just tanked a hollow purple

There's other weak arguements for his speed like him being superior to JP hakari or some nonsense about Sukuna blinding him but I'll make posts for that another day

Mechamaru if you consider Ultimate Mechamaru as a part of his arsenal (infinitely more valid than MBA Kashimo) is at least a top 10 character in the series (insane Ryu upscale)

Ryu's ce blasts are able to outspeed Yuta when they fight (especially clear when he's running from the initial barrage)

Ultimate Mechamaru's ce blasts not only are significantly larger, but they also home in on their opponents (as seen when he fights Mahito)

When you consider the speed of these attacks, remember that Mahito increased his speed with wings and that Mahito has insane amounts of aerial flexibility both by flying which is far better than simply running and using idle transfiguration to become a harder opponent to kill. He also becomes a rodent to run through the forest (once again uniquely hard to target)

Pair this with the fact that his injected simple domain implodes the innate domain which is functionally the same as the SSK so duraneg. It literally blitzed Mahito the first time he casts it (once again, lock on targetting)

Before we even scale other metrics his AP and practically unmissable attacks easily end almost anyone in the series.

For reference, while say Kashimo and Hakari struggle to punch through a shipping container, Mechamaru easily walks through the Ebata Tameike Dam.

At the least he should be relative to other special grade combatants. Except that he's a flipping mech. . He has functionally insane durability, and if you think ce reinforcement scales with body mass then well, he's already above most special grade fighters in stats.

In terms of speed, considering that he's max reinforcing himself the entire time, he's relative to special grade opponents who can't easily be outsped. At that he has full camera + puppets to use as eyes so he tracks practically anyone.

Same for his durability for the most part.

The only damage Mahito did to him was cutting the wires on his head (most vulnerable body part, Taking off his arm with his domain (most domains aren't like Mahito's where the barrier formation

is a brutal attack aka his hands are massive asf and literally gonna rip him apart), and drilling into his mouth when he was caught off guard.

At that, if the only way for most top 10 characters to beat him is to catch him in the cockpit before he unleashes an attack (Kashimo, Uraume, Hakari, Jogo, Ryu, any other top 10 contenders who are vulnerable to simply dying of straight blasts). They have to actually make it up the cockpit. They aren't spiderman, most can't even air jump.

Mechamaru statchecks like most of the top 10 contenders, there's probably even an argument to make for him actually being in the top 10.

Atp my top 10 is starting to look so comedic.

Dabura has 4 things that made him strong. Him being "Sukuna level", unlocking rct and ctr, and unlocking his domain.

Mahito has every single one of these things going for him. As a curse he has innate talent in using ce to heal himself, idle-transfiguration reversal wouldn't make sense to exist, he unlocked his domain in the same way Dabura did (life threatening encounter).

You can't even argue it's an expirience diff. Dabura was exposed to the barrier of the space ship and to rct from Mahoraga's sword. The only thing Mahito had over Dabura is proof of concept. Mahito was infinitely more expirimental and confident in his CT unlike Dabura who was scared to even apply light to himself.

Mahito had the better mindset for sorcery. Both Sukuna and Gojo share a near identical mindset which the series consistently shows produces the strongest characters.

Mahito was on track to be top 1 if we gave him 100 more chapters. The only thing he lacked was time to refine his stats. Why am I saying this? Well considering Kashimo fans and Yorozu fans looove glazing their characters with narrative so let's keep going.

Sukuna blatantly tells Jogo that he's one of the stronger opponents he's fought in his life (he doesn't even say this to Yorozu). Mahito is the leader of the disaster curses and designated their leader because of his superior potential which to a large degree is realised in the series.

Mahito => Jogo who Sukuna considers as strong

Let's go even further. Kenjaku (who has an explicit counter to Mahito in the form of CSM) was confirmed by Gege to be an exhausting fight against either Mahito or Jogo in a 1v1. And remember Mahito >= Jogo. So it's incredibly likely that he orchestrated Shibuya to weaken Mahito for CSM.

Kenjaku is often reffered to as the series 3rd strongest character (fine if you disagree) but undeniably the entire cast was wondering if they could take him on at the same time. Based on simple "levels of assurance" Mahito is an incredible threat relative to most the anti-Sukuna squad against Kenjaku.

Note how this was before Kenjaku learnt how strong Mahito had become.

alongside this Sukuna makes it clear that he will not tolerate interacting with the threat Idle transfiguration poses against him. If Sukuna even knowing it's not Mahito's goal to harm him still is weary then it shows his insane attack potency probably literally onetapping every character in the series.

In terms of narrative Mahito has far far more that suggests he's a top tier contender than most characters, which is allowed because he was the main antagonist of early jjk. He's implied to have absurd portential which he partially reaches by the time he unlocks ISBODK.

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On that I'll push it one step further. Mahito is top 6 jjk (top 4 if we're being generous).

Mahito is generally under-rated for being "stat-relative" to Shibuya Yuji which is such an over-exaggeration. Post Shibuya Yuji was stat-relative to Yuta Okkotsu at least in speed (Yuta had no reason to hold back his speed when chasing down Yuji)

Because we know CE reinforcement is relative throughout the entire body in terms of striking force and defence Yuta>= Yuji's stats but likely to be closer rather than further apart.

When Mahito fought Yuji he:

Can't use his CT (The literal oneshot on Yuji), After transfiguring 1000 humans and tanking unlimited void, Fighting a 1v2 vs Yuji and Todo, Gets hit by Nobara's Resonance, can't use his CT on Yuji or domain

So when we see Mahito, his ce reserves have been exhausted and he's gotten hit by resonance which damages CE output (he couldn't heal himself as much and couldn't reinforce himself as much) AND his h2h seems worse because he's also fighting Todo.

I'd also like to remind you that Mahito is clearly weary of losing and getting killed in his fight with Yuji which initially is thought to be because he's fearing Yuji but later shown because he suspected Kenjaku to betray him.

This is highly likely to suggest he was holding back his ce usage whilst fighting Yuji (shown by him not max reinforcing himself the entire fight, missing an opportunity to kill Yuji)

For all intents and purposes Mahito is significantly superior in every single stat than what's shown in the series.

all this scaling pre-ISBODK Mahito, which shows he's at least 3x tankier (even more but we're not shown), the anime also shows is a speed boost whilst he jumps around Yuji. And no Yuji being able to predict the strikes against Mahito is not an antifeat, Yuji was incredibly locked in and we see characters predicting attacks from faster opponents all the time (like Megumi vs Toji in the alleyway and Maki vs cursed spirit Naoya)

So (stat wise) Mahito >>>> shibuya Yuta = Yuji

in terms of defense and endurance Mahito >>>>>>>>> shibuya Yuta >= Yuji . Yuta has rct wheras Yuji doesn't.

"Okay sure but the cast get's stronger after switch training right?" Well yes and no. Firstly, the HH are almost at their peak strength already. Nothing implies stat-wise Maki gets stronger, Yuta and Hakkari in jackpot are almost always max reinforcing themseles (so they're reaching their ce output limit. The best Yuta / Hakkari could've done is by improving their efficiency which is such a short time is a jump to say they got meaningfully better (it's shown that efficiency improvements take years which is shown especially though Gojo who even owning the 6 eyes had to spend his life refinining hit ct)

Sukuna even notes their durability increase (useless vs Mahito) but not really their speed, which would only really put them somewhat relative to Mahito.

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Another major thing we need to value is Mahito's matchup spread. Mahito simply has a more efficient form of construction. He consistently makes souls take the form of objects with various properties, he makes a blaster with his arm, turns Todo's hand into exploding metal shards.

Considering that objects have souls, Mahito has shown an ability to manipulate objects made with ce, that being the soul world environment thing in modulo, the outer shell of ISBODK, and his general ability to manipulate souls into objects and vice versa

This is important for 2 of the matchups in the top 10

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Okay so we ultimately need to determine who'd go before him in the series if we were to see where he is in the top 10

The top 10 contenders are: Sukuna, Gojo, Kenjaku, Yuta, Yuki, Hakkari, Yuji, Yorozu, Kashimo, Maki, Toji, and Jogo.

Not even gonna touch Gojo / Sukuna so at most top 3.

We're pretty much told Mahito > Jogo, he definitely wins the 1v1 because Jogo can't percieve the soul.

Mahito rubber diffs Kashimo, as a character with an electric based CT Mahito hard counters him by imbuing himself with rubber based properties, and when (not if) he domains, Kashimo is dead. Kashimo does not have any way to debilitate Mahito because Mahito is a curse and doesn't have vital organs alongside idle transfiguration removing any form damage. he furthermore has raw ce to heal himself. Considering Kashimo fans or some unknown reason like to scale MBA Kashimo, there's nothing suggesting the EMW blasts can fully onetap Mahito, in which case Kashimo is put on a 5 minute time limit to win against the single best stalling character in the verse against him (maybe besides Gojo). So if we take most ridiculous Kashimo scaling and assume he "blitzes" most the verse and is top 3, there's highly likely no chance Kashimo can kill him.

You can't heal Idle transfiguration because it permanently alters the soul so Hakkari is dead. Hakkari could've only increased his efficiency through switch training and we know Hakkari's base stats are at best relative to post Shibuya Yuji considering his punches barely affected a Yuji that was just tanking them. So considering that Mahito >>>> Shibuya Yuji stats = Base Hakkari, Mahito just outlasts jackpot (making the ridiculous assumption jackpot hakkari blitzes) and just kills him. Mahito will eventually touch Hakkari, it's a matter of time.

Yorozu is the second character that the matchup spread is incredibly relevant to. Yorozu's stats are scaled circularly to Sukuna even though he makes it clear he wasn't trying. He never aknowledges her strength whilst he aknowledges Jogo's, that alone generally implies Jogo >= Yorozu. So it's highly unlikely she stat-checks Mahito. Either way she's the first character here that gets beaten by Mahito's domain because it's explicitly faster than other domain expansions.

Secondly to that, Mahito should just be able to undo the bug armor considering he functionally has construction sorcery. True sphere doesn't work because Mahito can make his own (he's shown consistently the only limitation is proof of concept). This second arguement is more expiremental but it's made clear that innanimate objects have souls.

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I'll get into the Yuji / Yuki / Kenjaku / Maki & Toji matchups another day, they probably deserve their own posts

I'm doing this just to collect counter-arguements I can sort out for part 2.

As for the part 1 conclusion:

Mahito narratively, stat wise, and matchup wise is stronger than the overwhelming majority of characters in the verse. His potential, character statements, and role in the story all imply his strength. His stats are clearly relative if not higher than most of the verse, especially defense and endurance. He simply matchup diffs most the top 10, only 5 of them can even see the soul.