The discourse around Magneto in the MCU (very long)

With Magneto presumably coming to the MCU at some point, I've seen a lot of discussion about what Marvel is going to do with his backstory. The argument is normally that the Holocaust is now simply too far away: if Magneto was old enough to remember Auschwitz, he'd be approaching 100, and therefore at some point you have to "update" him by making him the survivor of a more recent genocide or atrocity. 

I've spent far too much time reading about this and thinking about the various arguments, and I don't really understand why have accepted the premise that his history needs changing in the first place. 

Realistically speaking, TLDR: He's a mutant. Make him age slower.

I know that sounds almost flippant given how much discussion there has been about this, but I genuinely think that's all the explanation you need. We're already dealing with mutations which allow people to control the weather, regenerate from horrific injuries, read minds, teleport and walk through walls. I don't think dramatically slowed ageing is going to be the biological impossibility which finally loses the audience. 

I also much prefer that to freezing him and essentially repeating Captain America's story. Magneto doesn't need to be a man who disappeared in the 1940s and woke up in the modern world. Having him live through those decades gives you much more to work with. However, if he was to be frozen, I like the idea that the Nazis/Hydra ran tests on him, saw how obscenely powerful he was, and put him on ice indefinitely.  

He doesn't need to have been publicly fighting for mutant supremacy throughout that period either. The MCU doesn't appear to have had mutants existing openly as a large, recognised minority for the last 70 years, so there isn't really a continuity problem there. He could have lived relatively quietly, encountered the occasional mutant over the years and watched the world change around him. Perhaps, after what happened to him as a child, he even came to believe that humanity really had learned something from it. 

Then mutants begin appearing in numbers which can't be ignored, and for the first time they become something the wider public understands as a distinct group of people. There is fear, perhaps an incident which accelerates it (I don't want to spoil an example that comes to mind), and eventually political arguments about whether mutants need to be registered, controlled or otherwise treated differently because of what they are. For someone with Magneto's history, it isn't difficult to understand why watching that develop could be the thing which finally radicalises him.  

If anything, I think that's a more interesting use of his Holocaust history than simply transporting him from the 1940s to the present. He would have had decades in which to watch attitudes change, antisemitism persist in different forms, other atrocities happen and societies repeatedly promise that they had learned from the past. Then he reaches the point where another part of his identity suddenly places him within a group which people are frightened of. 

The Captain America comparison is useful because Marvel already understands the basic principle here. Steve Rogers remains tied to the Second World War even as that war becomes more historically distant. Nobody seriously proposes periodically moving his origin forward so that he fought in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan instead. Marvel finds a way around the chronology because being a WWII character means something to Captain America beyond simply having fought in an old war. 

I don't think Magneto should use Steve's exact mechanism, because being displaced from his own time is an important part of Steve in a way that it isn't for Magneto. But if Marvel can preserve Steve's relationship with WWII, it seems strange to me that preserving Magneto's relationship with the Holocaust is treated as some uniquely insurmountable continuity problem. Slowed ageing is completely mundane by the standards of the universe we're talking about. 

The other argument which comes up a lot is that Magneto wasn't created as a Holocaust survivor, which is true. Claremont established that history about 18 years after the character was created. But I don't think that tells us very much about whether it should be retained now. 

Magneto has been a Holocaust survivor for about 45 years, considerably more than twice as long as he existed without that history, and those stories were part of the development which turned him from a comparatively straightforward supervillain into the character people are still writing and arguing about now. Treating the earliest version as inherently more authentic means ignoring most of the writing which made Magneto interesting in the first place. 

There are countless examples of this happening to long-running characters. Mr Freeze had existed for more than 30 years before Batman: The Animated Series gave him Nora and rebuilt his motivation around trying to save his dying wife. That wasn't part of his original conception and wasn't even invented in the comics, but it was so successful that the comics adopted it. If you ask someone familiar with Batman to explain Mr Freeze, there's a very good chance Nora is one of the first things they'll mention. 

The Doctor existed for more than 40 years before the Time War became part of his history. For an enormous number of people who grew up with modern Doctor Who, the destruction of Gallifrey, his belief that he was the last Time Lord and the guilt surrounding the Time War are basic parts of what they know about him, despite generations of the character existing without any of it. 

Storm's childhood history was developed after her introduction as well, including her parents being killed in Cairo, her being trapped beneath the rubble and the claustrophobia which resulted from it. Superman couldn't originally fly. Wolverine didn't appear with every element of his history and powers already established. Long-running characters change so much that arguing from the contents of their first appearance would give us versions of many of them which barely resemble the characters people know. 

Obviously, I'm not suggesting that all those changes carry the same cultural or historical weight as making Magneto a Holocaust survivor. They don't need to. They're examples of why the date at which something was introduced doesn't decide whether it can eventually become fundamental to a character. 

In Magneto's case, I think it's difficult to argue that the Holocaust didn't do exactly that. It gave a much more specific meaning to his fear of what humans might eventually do to mutants. 

Magneto isn't simply somebody who had something unimaginably awful happen to him when he was young. He experienced the Holocaust as a Jewish child and later finds himself belonging to another minority which people increasingly regard as dangerous. 

That connection is important because of what he has already seen. He's lived through a society in which a minority was blamed for social problems, portrayed as alien and corrupting, treated as biologically distinct and gradually stripped of rights and humanity. He doesn't have the luxury of assuming that rhetoric about an unwanted minority will necessarily remain rhetoric, because he knows from his own life that it didn't before. 

It makes his conflict with Xavier far more interesting because Magneto has an extremely good reason to believe Xavier is naive. Xavier can believe that humans and mutants will eventually learn to coexist, while Magneto has personal experience of how badly that faith in the majority can fail. 

At the same time, the fact that we understand Magneto's fear doesn't mean we're required to agree with everything he does because of it. His determination that mutants will never again be powerless can take him into mutant supremacy, collective punishment and violence against people who have done nothing to him. Some of the most interesting versions of Magneto allow both of those things to be true at once: his fear isn't irrational, while some of the conclusions he draws from it very much can be. 

Many people suggest simply 'swapping' one atrocity for another. I've seen Rwanda, Bosnia, Armenia and various other examples suggested, and I'm not remotely arguing that those histories are less worthy of being represented. Humanity has unfortunately produced enough genocides that there is no shortage of real historical trauma writers could draw from. What I don't like is treating them as though they're basically interchangeable settings which perform the same function for a character. 

The Holocaust, the genocide against the Tutsi in Rwanda, Bosnia and the Armenian genocide have their own histories. They happened to different peoples in different circumstances, and the experiences of the people who survived them don't become equivalent simply because we place all of them under the category of genocide. 

If Marvel wants to create a Rwandan mutant whose experience of the genocide against the Tutsi informs the way they respond to mutant persecution, I think that could be fascinating. The same applies to an Armenian mutant, a Bosnian mutant, a Palestinian mutant or characters rooted in any number of histories which Marvel has barely explored. I'd rather see those characters created and developed than take one existing character and swap between historical atrocities according to whichever one currently makes the chronology easiest. 

That approach also gives those histories room to matter on their own terms. A Rwandan character shouldn't just be Magneto with a different genocide inserted into his biography. There are stories you could tell with that character which you couldn't tell with Magneto precisely because their history and cultural background would be different. 

For some personal context, I'm Catholic, but my paternal family is Ashkenazi Jewish, so I obviously have some investment in the question of Jewish representation. And yes, I'm aware of matrilineal descent in traditional Jewish law. I'm talking here about ethnicity, ancestry and family history rather than making a claim about my status under halakha. Historically, people persecuting Jews weren't especially interested in Jewish religious law when deciding who counted as Jewish anyway. 

One reason I care about the Jewish part of Magneto specifically is that Jewish identity doesn't fit very neatly into the categories people often use when discussing representation. Judaism can refer to religion, but Jewish identity can also involve ethnicity, ancestry, culture and peoplehood, and those things overlap in complicated ways. Ashkenazi Jews also aren't representative of all Jewish people; Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews have their own histories and cultures. 

Particularly with Ashkenazi Jews who can be perceived simply as white, I sometimes think Jewish representation becomes quite easy to overlook. Magneto is one of the most famous explicitly Jewish characters in popular fiction, and in his case his Jewishness is directly relevant to the history which shaped him. 

I'm also not arguing that every aspect of Magneto, or any comic character, must remain unchanged forever. I don't have a blanket objection to changing a character's race, gender, nationality or other characteristics in an adaptation, and I'm certainly not somebody who thinks every piece of comic canon is sacred. Some characters are vastly better because later writers changed them. 

What matters to me is how much a particular characteristic is doing for the character you're adapting. Changing something incidental isn't the same creative decision as changing something around which decades of their characterisation has been built, and the fact that the latter might itself once have been a retcon doesn't make it incidental again. 

This is also where the distinction between an alternate Magneto and the MCU's main Magneto matters to me. If someone wants to write an alternate-universe Magneto with a completely different history, I don't have an issue with that. Changing fundamental aspects of familiar characters and seeing what follows is one of the reasons alternate universes are interesting. 

The MCU is different because Marvel has chosen to present it as its central cinematic continuity, right down to the slightly maddening decision to call it 616 despite the comics already having Earth-616. For millions of people who don't read comics, whoever appears in the MCU will be their mainstream version of Magneto. 

I don't think that means the MCU has to reproduce the comics exactly. It obviously hasn't done that with its other characters. But if you're going to remove something which has been central to Magneto for 45 years, and which is responsible for a significant amount of the complexity people associate with him, I think there should be a substantive reason for doing it. His age isn't one when the setting gives you countless easy ways around it. 

Marvel has also already shown that adding representation doesn't require overwriting an existing character's history. Steve Rogers remains Captain America, with his own background and connection to WWII, and Sam Wilson can also be Captain America while bringing a completely different history and perspective to the role. You can add characters and expand what the universe represents without having to turn one minority's history into space for another's. 

There is one part of this discussion I don't want to spend too much time on because I don't want this to turn into an Israel/Palestine thread, but I know from seeing these discussions elsewhere that it will probably come up. 

People sometimes suggest that Magneto should be Palestinian. I'm sure that for many people this comes from a sincere desire to see Palestinian characters represented, and I would have no problem with Marvel creating and investing in a Palestinian mutant whose history informs their response to mutant persecution. 

The version I find concerning is when making Magneto Palestinian is suggested specifically as an ironic reversal of his being Jewish and a Holocaust survivor, with some variation of the idea that the former victims have now become the persecutors. 

My problem with that framing is that the irony only really works if Jewish people are being treated collectively. A Jewish child persecuted during the Holocaust isn't responsible for the actions of the Israeli government decades later because both involve Jewish people. Criticism of Israel can be entirely legitimate, including extremely severe criticism, without turning Jewish people into representatives of a state. 

I'm not suggesting that everybody who proposes a Palestinian Magneto means that, because I'm sure they don't. I've simply seen enough comments where the "irony" is explicitly the point that I think it's worth distinguishing between wanting Palestinian representation and using a Palestinian Magneto to make a point about Jewish people collectively. 

After going through all these arguments, though, the reason I still don't think Magneto needs updating is much less complicated than the amount I've written about it probably makes it appear. 

The age issue only exists if Marvel decides that Magneto must age like an ordinary human. There is no reason for them to decide that. Slower ageing is entirely plausible for a mutant within the rules Marvel has already established, and it actually gives the MCU some interesting things to do with him because he can have experienced the decades between the Holocaust and the emergence of mutants rather than simply skipping them. 

Once you remove the age problem, I struggle to see what is gained by replacing the rest. You'd be taking one of popular fiction's best-known Jewish characters, removing a history which has defined him for 45 years and replacing it with another people's historical trauma, when Marvel could instead preserve Magneto and create characters whose connections to those other histories are actually their own. 

For me, that's a much better solution than deciding Auschwitz has reached its expiration date as part of Magneto's story. 

 

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Jon Snow, 998th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch

"The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke."

"Jon unsheathed Longclaw and showed it to them, turning it this way and that so they could admire it. The bastard blade glittered in the pale sunlight, dark and deadly."

u/Professional-Tank848 — 20 days ago
▲ 29 r/Xmen97

Some Theological Musings on X-Men '97 S2E7

A few caveats before I begin:

  • I'm not a comics scholar, so this isn't an attempt to reconstruct authorial intent or comic canon.
  • My academic background is in philosophy and theology, so that's the lens I'm bringing to the episode.
  • I know religious readings of fiction aren't everyone's cup of tea. That's perfectly fine, and this is just one way of engaging with an episode I found surprisingly rich.
  • There are plenty of other themes I could have explored, both in this episode and across the season, but this is already long enough.

Exodus: A False Moses? 

Exodus is an obvious biblical reference, but I don't think that makes it any less interesting. The Book of Exodus is about Moses leading the Hebrews out of Egypt towards the Promised Land, framing Exodus as someone who sees himself as a liberator. "Exodus" appears to be a name he chose rather than the one he was born with. That choice feels significant. He casts himself as a Moses figure: a leader destined to deliver mutantkind. But the episode is more interested in the differences between Exodus and Moses than their similarities. 

Moses was God's servant, not Israel's saviour. He led because God called him, not because he believed himself uniquely worthy. Even Moses was prevented from entering the Promised Land after striking the rock at Meribah instead of following God's command exactly (Numbers 20). Exodus, by contrast, increasingly places himself at the centre of salvation.

During the trial, as opinion begins to shift towards Nightcrawler, he immediately cries, "Heretic!". The trial only has value while it produces the verdict he already wants. Anyone who disagrees with him isn't merely wrong; they're opposing what he believes to be divine truth. Nightcrawler provides the perfect contrast. He never claims the authority to save anyone. He points beyond himself to God, recognising that while people can pursue justice, salvation and ultimate judgement belong to a higher authority. 

The Savage Land is already an established location in X-Men lore, but the biblical parallels are difficult to ignore. Just as the Hebrews escaped Egypt only to spend forty years in the wilderness before reaching the Promised Land, Exodus offers the mutants the Savage Land as their apparent salvation. The Savage Land still contains inhibitor technology that suppresses mutant powers unless Exodus provides the means to overcome it. Their freedom remains conditional. They remain dependent on him. That stands in stark contrast to Nightcrawler's understanding of salvation. Christian theology teaches that God's grace is freely given, not earned or controlled. Exodus offers safety and power, but only on his terms. Nightcrawler offers a vision of grace that belongs to God alone. 

Graydon Creed is a monster. He's responsible for genocide, and it's genuinely difficult to argue that he doesn't deserve to die. By almost any legal or moral standard, Exodus' position seems entirely reasonable. Nightcrawler doesn't deny Graydon's guilt. Instead, he asks a different question: what should the mutants become in response? Exodus argues from what might be called the letter of the law: Graydon deserves death, therefore he should die. Nightcrawler argues from something closer to the spirit of the law. Justice matters, but so does mercy, and without mercy there can be no hope of redemption. Whether Exodus truly loves mutantkind almost becomes a secondary question. The more interesting one is whether love can exist without mercy. Exodus wants to protect his people, but he is willing to sacrifice the possibility of redemption to do so. Nightcrawler refuses to abandon either. 

Why hold the Trial? 

Part of the answer is simple: fairness. Nightcrawler points out that Graydon has harmed mutants, so if he is to be judged, it should be by mutants. They have the right to hold him accountable. What's striking is that the character most concerned with justice is also the first to abandon the process when it no longer guarantees the outcome he wants. Exodus presents himself as a defender of righteousness, yet the moment the room begins to consider Nightcrawler's argument, he dismisses dissent as heresy. God is loving and just, and Exodus is neither.

Nightcrawler insists on the trial because justice is about more than reaching the correct verdict. It is about the kind of people the mutants choose to become. Earlier, Exodus claims that Magneto understood there was no point appealing to humanity's better nature because humanity has none. Yet by denying Graydon even the dignity of a trial, he risks proving the mutants have no better nature either. From a Christian perspective, Christ calls his followers to resist becoming like those who persecute them. If the mutants execute Graydon without trial, they may still punish evil, but they will also have allowed evil to shape how they act. 

Exodus chooses Piotr as judge because he expects the obvious verdict. Piotr is still consumed by grief after Illyana's death. He hasn't returned to his human form since losing her, remaining permanently encased in organic steel. His mutant form has become a suit of armour. Nightcrawler's stated goal is to save Graydon, but he's also appealing to Piotr. Every argument he makes about mercy is an appeal to Piotr's better nature. When Nightcrawler tells Graydon, "You don't hate mutants. You hate your parents," he doesn't excuse his actions, but refuses to believe hatred is the deepest truth about him. That belief begins to affect the room. Piotr and the other Acolytes seem genuinely willing to consider Nightcrawler's argument. They may still have condemned Graydon, but it would have been after reflection rather than rage. The trial transforms justice from an act of vengeance into an act of judgement.

Later, Nightcrawler admits killing Graydon might be the greater mercy if it saved mutant lives, showing he isn't arguing for mercy at any cost. He's wrestling with an impossible moral question rather than pretending there is an easy answer. By the end of the episode, Piotr insists Nightcrawler did not convince him. Yet, for the first time since Illyana's death, he returns to his flesh-and-blood form. Whatever verdict he reached about Graydon, something in Piotr has shifted. The episode never comments on the change. His armour is gone. Whether consciously or not, he is no longer sealed behind steel. 

The image recalls Ezekiel's promise that God will remove the heart of stone and give His people a heart of flesh (Ezekiel 36:26). The parallel is not exact, because Piotr has steel rather than stone, but the imagery is striking. A heart of flesh can be wounded, but it can also receive and be changed. 

For Piotr, flesh is also his natural state. Returning to it does not make him less of a mutant; it makes him more fully himself. True strength lies not in remaining permanently armoured, but in recovering the courage to be vulnerable again. 

The appalling strangeness of the mercy of God

When Nightcrawler says, "You cannot conceive, nor can I, the appalling strangeness of the mercy of God," he isn't simply saying that God is mysterious. He's admitting that he himself cannot understand why God continues to offer mercy to people who seem utterly undeserving. 

He speaks these words only after teleporting himself and Graydon Creed into the frozen wilderness. Throughout Scripture, the wilderness is where people are tested. Israel wandered there for forty years. Elijah encountered God there. Christ was tempted there before beginning His ministry. Even the Desert Fathers sought the wilderness because it stripped away every distraction and forced them to confront themselves before God. Now Nightcrawler enters his own wilderness. Earlier in the season, Apocalypse also makes a decisive choice in the wilderness. Having already embraced the future promised by the Celestials, he executes Magneto without hesitation. Nightcrawler, however, chooses to do the opposite. 

For perhaps the first time in the episode, we see that his commitment to mercy is not effortless. He wants to kill Graydon (or, he is at least tempted/considers it). The anger is real. He understands exactly why Exodus believes Graydon should die. That is what makes this scene so compelling. Mercy is not his instinct; it is his choice. Nightcrawler's faith matters because he genuinely has another path before him. 

The episode could easily have quoted Scripture, but instead it turns to Graham Greene. Greene's novels repeatedly return to the unsettling nature of grace, asking whether God's mercy extends to people we would rather see condemned. The answer is almost always yes. That is precisely what makes mercy appalling. It is not because it is cruel, but because it refuses to fit our instincts about justice. We want evil people to receive exactly what they deserve. (Un)Fortunately, what we might want is not necessarily what God does.

If Christianity is right about original sin, then no one deserves mercy. The scandal is not that God might forgive Graydon Creed. The scandal is that God forgives any of us. The moment we begin dividing humanity into those who deserve mercy and those who do not, we have ceased to speak about grace, and that is why Nightcrawler refuses to judge Graydon's soul. 

Instead of returning Graydon to the Acolytes or simply setting him free, he leaves Graydon alone in the wilderness. On one level, it is the only practical way to save him from immediate execution. Symbolically, it is something richer. Throughout Scripture, the wilderness is where people confront themselves and, perhaps, God. Whether Graydon changes is no longer Nightcrawler's decision. 

 

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u/Professional-Tank848 — 21 days ago
▲ 75 r/Xmen97

Regarding the Sentinel blast in today's episode...

Here's a screenshot of Nightcrawler, another teleporter, seemingly about to eat a blast on Genosha. This is in real-time, maybe he's about to teleport, maybe he's exhausted, or maybe he's just lost at what to do in these circumstances.

Maybe we'll get some more information in later episodes, but it seemed clear to me that Colossus' perception of his sister's death was (understandably) incredibly traumatic and guilt-ridden. We've no idea how long she was stood there for, but what we saw wasn't in real-time. The man probably blames himself, thinking he could've saved her.

The show is not flawless, but if I hear the terms "character assassination" or "bad writing" arbitrarily thrown around one more time, I might have an aneurysm.

u/Professional-Tank848 — 23 days ago

First-time Elite and some advice for anyone apprehensive about PvP

Hadn't planned on posting a 'first-time' thing, because a lot of the community seems to be a little sick of them. Which, to be fair, I get. There's a lot. But, at the same time, well done to those who've achieved their goals.

I just wanted to share some advice/maybe give a little encouragement to those who've been unsure about trying PvP: do it.

My first season was late DF, season 3, and it's because I wanted the 2H mace transmog. Didn't know what I was doing, but considering Ret could stack Vers in PvE, and I had the legendary axe, I thought I'd give it a go. Got the weapon fairly quickly, decided I wanted the Conquest set...Then, thought I might try for the elite set. I think it took 2-3 weeks of games. I was dreadful. I didn't even know I could talent into Spellwarding, so any caster lobby ended in seconds. But, eventually, I got 1800, kept going for the seasonal mount, and stopped. Unfortunately, the levels of abuse I got off some players was appalling. You'd think for a 'dead' part of the game, you'd wanna encourage some kindness.

Missed TWW S1, and might not have tried anyway, as the Paladin set was dire. But, went in to S2 with an eye on the set, got it reasonably quickly, and then pushed for the enchant. I got a *little* better. S3 comes, the set is cool, but the 2100 weapons were a must have.

Midnight S3, I decided to get the 2100 weapons again, as they're legit awesome. Then, thought the tabard might be cool. Just kept playing...

A lot of the time, I don't quite know what I'm doing right or wrong, and maybe I'd get destroyed in 2's or 3's. But, give it a go, and get a little better every season. PvP is a fun little transmog game for me, as raiding is my go-to. My only wish: add old elite sets to the saddle system.

u/Professional-Tank848 — 25 days ago
▲ 367 r/wow

The level of commitment that employers expect from minimum wage employees

I died from fatigue.

u/Professional-Tank848 — 3 months ago