u/Purple_Tax4167

Semi new fan here who is trying to learn more about the qualitative aspects of F1 and I'm wondering how people interpret the driving style of each driver.

In response to a question that I asked on this forum, someone mentioned that there are drivers like Lewis Hamilton who tend to brake very late into a corner, and other drivers like Max Verstappen who tend to brake early and get a good exit. Some drivers understeer and some drivers oversteer.

That comment inspired this post because it made me wonder what people think about the driving style of the other drivers on the grid and I'd love to look for these things when watching the races. So, how would you describe the driving style of any of the drivers on the grid?

Semi new fan here who is trying to follow all the fan wars and has read a lot of posts in this sub. Certain things I have seen here have made me more confused and have me wondering, how do you evaluate F1 drivers?

I've seen people say you can't look at race wins to determine if someone is a strong driver. You can't look at drivers standings or whether someone is a WDC contender to assess if they're a strong driver. In fact, people here argue that there have been WDC contenders who are not as strong as others on the grid.

Can someone who thinks this please explain what that means and how you are assessing drivers if you're not looking at how many races they win? It is my understanding that people call drivers such Verstappen or Hamilton GOATs specifically because of how many races they have won. What else can I look at if not race wins and drivers standings to better understand F1 and talk about the skill of each driver?

There has been a lot of discussion about Bronwyn's behavior in the trolley and I have seen people on here and on other platforms say that Bronwyn is leaning into becoming the villain of the show, turning heel, etc. While HWs is about the lives of affluent women, it's also a show and there are characters in a show.

If we are going based on dynamics and ignoring Bronwyn's behavior, Bronwyn could be a very good villain. She's the only one without a strong alliance, the other 6 women are in tight pairings that have not changed in multiple seasons. Bronwyn is good at arguing, her arguments with the women have gone viral and have gained her support. She could use being solo and being a good arguer (is that a word?) to her advantage and be the pot stirrer. As the only solo HW if she was a villain she could mingle with some of the women, feud with someone of the women, etc - it could be an advantage for her.

But once we take her behavior into account, I'm not sure I agree with those who say that she could be the villain of the show. She is too insecure. She has said countless times that she wants people to like her. She has said multiple times that she wants women in this group specifically to like her (like how she did with Meredith in the S6 reunion). If you're going to be the villain of a HWs show, you need to be able to stand alone and I'm not sure Bronwyn wants to or has the confidence to stand alone or not be liked.

To be clear, I am talking about the character of being the villain in HWs and whether Bronwyn is suited for it.

There has been a lot of discussion about Bronwyn's behavior in the trolley and I have seen people on here and on other platforms say that Bronwyn is leaning into becoming the villain of the show, turning heel, etc. While HWs is about the lives of affluent women, it's also a show and there are characters in a show.

If we are going based on dynamics and ignoring Bronwyn's behavior, Bronwyn could be a very good villain. She's the only one without a strong alliance, the other 6 women are in tight pairings that have not changed in multiple seasons. Bronwyn is good at arguing, her arguments with the women have gone viral and have gained her support. She could use being solo and being a good arguer (is that a word?) to her advantage and be the pot stirrer. As the only solo HW if she was a villain she could mingle with some of the women, feud with someone of the women, etc - it could be an advantage for her.

But once we take her behavior into account, I'm not sure I agree with those who say that she could be the villain of the show. She is too insecure. She has said countless times that she wants people to like her. She has said multiple times that she wants women in this group specifically to like her (like how she did with Meredith in the S6 reunion). If you're going to be the villain of a HWs show, you need to be able to stand alone and I'm not sure Bronwyn wants to or has the confidence to stand alone.

The gang up on Quai in episode 3 really pmo but I am most upset about the role Bronwyn played. Shitney and Heather do this nonsense every season, they always play a role in the gang up of whoever they decide to dislike. It's their MO, it's predictable and we all know that it's coming when there's a group setting. But Bronwyn's behavior was actually diabolical.

I am so annoyed with Bronwyn because she had no reason to participate in the gang up. Quai didn't say anything about her. Angie really annoyed me but at least Quai said something about her. Heather was terrible but at least Quai actually said something about her. Conwyn only joined the dogpile for approval IMO. It is clear that she wants to be in with these women and she is willing to join in on the dogpile of whoever so that she can be accepted and in the in group. She has done this with Britani. I can't stand Britani but Bronwyn has attacked her for no reason to be accepted by the other women.

Episode 3 was crazy though because she wasn't involved and involved herself to defend Heather. I don't understand why she would do that when Heather doesn't even like her. I rewatched the fight, Bronwyn went to BAT for Heather. "You did say you were scared of her, you didn't like her pointing her finger and yelling." Why is Conwyn defending Heather when this has nothing to do with her and Heather hates her? Bronwyn if you're reading this, Heather will never like you and she would have NEVER gone to bat for you like that.

Bronwyn lying pmo but it's her MO, her participating in the dogpile and then calling Quai a bitch was ridiculous and I was not expecting that from her. First season, I really liked Bronwyn. I was excited to see her navigate the group and bring actual wealth to the show. Second season, I started to dislike her. Once she announced her separation from Todd, I felt bad for her because divorces are sad. Todd treated her terribly and it took her a long time to realize that. A lot of HWs who end up divorced, acted terribly while they were married because they were having problems at home. So I thought - let me give Bronwyn another chance. Maybe it was her home life that was making her seem unlikable at the end of season 5 and in season 6. I was wrong. Because now grandpa's out of the picture and she's even more insufferable.

Bronwyn, you are told old to be vying for the approval of other people. I know that her experience getting pregnant with Gwen, and the treatment from her mom and Todd impacted her a lot and that's sad. But she has to work through that. This behavior is not going to get her the approval she wants.

The dogpiling on Meredith last season was terrible to watch and made the show boring and changed how people viewed some of the cast. Angie and Bronwyn were major favorites in season 5 and public perception of them changed due to season 6. People completely hate Heather now.

Those 4 clearly care a lot about what people think about them and they know that they can't dogpile on Meredith or Lisa anymore and still be loved by fans. The Meredith or Lisa takedown storyline is tired. So in comes Quai.

Quai is new to the group, she's a new face that the audience hasn't seen and therefore a new person to target for a takedown (especially since a Lisadeth takedown is no longer interesting). Quai's comments did not deserve the reaction that she got from Bad Weather, Angie, and Bronwyn. They only blew it out of proportion because they can't target Meredith anymore and they need a storyline.

There's a formula with SLC that you can see coming at this point. Group settings always equal a dogpile. They did it with Meredith last season. They did it with Lisa on UGT. Both were not well received so now they're doing it to Quai. The Quai dogpile doesn't even make any sense because both Whitney and Bronwyn were lying about their conversations with Quai. They intentionally tried to make her comments seem worse than they were to further the takedown.

If people weren't fed up with the Meredith takedown storyline, Whitney would not have apologized to her. IMO I don't think the women would have come at Quai at all if the audience was receptive to a Lisa or Meredith takedown.

I have seen a good amount of comments (from people who are mad at Bertha for the Gladys situation) about how Bertha got lucky with the Duke. That the Duke could have been abusive to Gladys and it’s only by chance that Gladys and Hector ended up happy.

I’m not sure about my question which is why I’m bringing it to this forum.

On one hand, Bertha seemed surprise to learn the role that Sarah played in Hector’s house and I feel like that shows that she didn’t vet him as well as she could have. Sarah ran Hector’s life and that shouldn’t have been a surprise to Bertha or Gladys.

At the same time, I find it hard to believe that Bertha would push for Gladys to marry Hector if she thought he would physically hurt Gladys.

What do you think?

Mine is Larry.

I don’t feel like Larry realizes that lying to Marian was wrong. He’s mad that she trusted one of the staff over him but he lied and the staff didn’t.

I’d like to see Larry actually acknowledge that he was wrong to lie about going to a “house of ill repute” on their engagement day and wrong to get mad at Marian for thinking he cheated.

Whether Larian is end game or not (I hope so), Larry not acknowledging the issue with his behavior (the lying) will impact his relationship with his future wife. You don’t lie to your spouse even if you’re trying to protect them.

If George did what Larry did, Bertha would be pissed. If it was William and Peggy, Peggy would not be happy either.

What about you?

Bertha prepared Gladys for marriage but I do not think she prepared her to be a duchess. 

While it is true that Gladys would have the ability to influence society as a duchess, taking the reins of society requires confidence that Gladys does not have. 

Gladys is not confident. She is also very young (I believe she’s still a teenager) and confidence comes with age. If you compare Peggy and Marion to Gladys, they are much more confident and mature than her and it is partially because they’re older than her. 

Also, Gladys knows nothing of British society.  She does not know how to assert herself and command a room. Her confidence was never built by Bertha because Bertha was controlling. So when Gladys got to England, she let Sarah bully her continuously. Sarah’s maid said she wanted to wear her down like a puppy or something like that? Which is true because Gladys is not confident and would have let it happen (I mean she did let it happen). 

I think Bertha prepared Gladys for marriage. Gladys was aware that she was expected to have sex with her husband and get pregnant asap. But I think Bertha was so focused on rushing Gladys to the aisle (because she knew the family wasn’t for it and didn’t want Gladys to back out) and being the mother of a duchess, that she never actually took the time to make sure Gladys was prepared to be a duchess. 

I also think that Bertha sees Gladys as an extension of herself, like a lot of parents. If Bertha was a duchess, she would have taken the reins of society. She would never have allowed herself to be bullied. Remember when George was asking Bertha if she had heard from Gladys, Bertha kept saying that she was settling into her new life. I don’t think she expected Gladys to struggle because Bertha would not have struggled. 

I’m glad Gladys has found her confidence to be the Duchess of Buckingham now, especially because she is expecting. But I do not think she was prepared to be a duchess before she was married. 

What do you think? 

Angie said that Heather always wanted to be with the cool girls. She got it, she was in with Lisa and Meredith. Lisa had snubbed her a while ago and that seemed to really bother her so why did she turn on Lisa when she finally got what she wanted?

Do you remember that scene in Mean Girls where Regina is being mean to Gretchen? And Cady said that it was better to be in the Plastics hating life than not in at all. That’s how I see the Heather, Lisa, and Meredith thing. While Lisa can be delusional, she is also loyal and she never actually attacked Heather the way we have seen her go at the other women the last few seasons. So why did Heather turn on her?

I can’t remember a scene of Lisa and Heather fighting and Lisa insulting her. So I’m wondering where the breakdown in their relationship happened? What do you think happened?

There’s 3 strong alliances on the show already. Lisa and Meredith, Mary and Angie, Heather and Whitney.

Bronwyn is by herself and so is Britani if we include her. I’m bored of the 3 pairings, what new one(s) would you make if you could shake up the pairings?

I would love to see Bronwyn and Meredith together. I think they have a lot in common. 

I would also like to see Heather and Bronwyn team up. I hate producer Heather but I have liked her in the past. I think her and Bronwyn are both insecure and desperate to be accepted and I think they could be good friends.

What about you?

Darcy broke up Jane and Bingley because he felt that Jane was indifferent to Bingley. But if Jane had shown that she was in love with Bingley would that have also not been a turn off?

Bingley is loaded, there’s no way that women did not try to flirt with him or throw themselves at him because women were trying to secure matches back then for their own livelihoods. If Jane had done the same and thrown herself at Bingley to show that she was interested in him, I feel like Darcy would still object because she’d be acting just like other women chasing Bingley’s fortune.

What do you think?

Is there a way that Jane could have shown interest in Bingley without coming on too strong/like a woman only interested in him for money?

George himself says that he is the head of the house. If he really wanted to stop Gladys from getting married he could have. Throughout the show he encourages Bertha’s scheming and he knows that Bertha is seeking an advantageous pairing for Gladys (which is what all women married to wealthy men did back then for their daughters).

It was George who promised Gladys that she could marry for love, not Bertha. We never actually see George put his foot down with Bertha until Larry and Marion get engaged. George never tells Bertha to stop bullying Gladys. He never tells Bertha to let her see Billy Carlton or other boys that she’s interested in.

Truth be told I think that George agreed with Bertha. While he didn’t like seeing her cry over the marriage, he agreed it was an advantageous pairing. And it is, Gladys’ children will outrank everyone in society. Gladys and her children will never have to grovel and no doors will be closed to them. If Gladys actually does want to influence society, she now can.

We never actually see George say no. He never says stop Bertha, Gladys will not marry the Duke or any Duke unless she loves him. He went along with it which is why he is ultimately responsible. This is an extremely patriarchal society, women are their husband’s property here so Bertha can only do what George allows. Bertha’s behavior is because George emboldened her. Bertha is surprised by George’s anger at her because he has agreed with her in the past and he has never actually objected to her scheming and said no.

This is not to say that Bertha is not responsible for the situation. She went behind George and Gladys’ back. She threatened people, put the rumor out there, and leveraged Gladys dowry without telling George. She was not honest with her family. I also think it’s sad that Gladys will always have to look back on her wedding day and remember that she cried and no one considered her feelings at the time. I am a Bertha fan and I think Bertha is self centered. However, I don’t think Bertha is ultimately responsible for Gladys’ marriage, that is George.

So for the people who are mad at Bertha, why is your anger not directed at George?

For me it’s Lisa and Bronwyn. 

Lisa is a great housewife. I love her confidence, I think she’s fun and that the show would suck without her. But she sucks at arguing. The constant yelling and saying “that’s not true” is embarrassing. The dismissed dismissed dismissed about the lawsuits didn’t address anything and didn’t eat like she thought it would. I also do believe that she thinks she’s above the women which I don’t like because they’re all on the same show. Additionally, Lisa needs to be calmer, her constant blow ups are something that the cast weaponizes against her. If she was more calm, I think people would like her even more. I also hate take down seasons and I want to see a one on one conflict with her and someone else, not everyone ganging up on her. I think she’s loyal and can be a great friend like she is to Meredith. I also think she can be nasty. Her comments about Todd are gross and she’d be pissed if it was the other way around. I love that she loves Wendy’s and I understand why she’s queen of the show so I like and dislike her.

Bronwyn is another one for me because I would be her number 1 supporter if she didn’t constantly back track and change her story. The changing her story about the necklace, implying Seth was cheating, Todd’s cheating and whatever happened with Gwen’s father’s parents and Lisa (I still have no idea what happened) were all major turn offs to me because the story kept changing. I feel like Bronwyn is a really bad chameleon. She is constantly changing her story depending on which of the women she is with to get approval, and it just makes her stand out even more and come off as dishonest. I do think she cares a lot about her image and I also think she’s very insecure. Where I like Bronwyn is I think she’s the best person at arguing on the show and I think she actually has a lot in common with all of the women. I made a post a few days ago about how Bronwyn is the only person without a friend on the show and someone mentioned that that could be an advantage for her which I strongly agree with. I think she could be a major force on the show if she’d stop begging for approval, changing her story, and let go of her anger at Lisa for snubbing her. Lisa has snubbed all of them, it’s time to move on. I also admire her advocacy for marginalized groups. Some may say it’s performative but at least she is bringing awareness to these issues. So I like and dislike Bronwyn too. 

What about you? Who do you like and dislike and why? 

I love Bertha and George, they are my favorite couple in the show and I also like Larry, but like the title says I’m glad they’re on the outs.

George and Larry falling out with Bertha is the first time that Bertha has faced consequences for her actions on the show.

It has been discussed on this sub how Bertha’s constant wins are unrealistic - which I agree with. George and Larry being angry with her and moving out was a loss for her, and we saw how hurt she was by it.

While I don’t like how Bertha treated Gladys, I understand. Gladys is now in a position to pursue whatever she desires and she is at the top of society. Gladys won’t have to do the groveling that Bertha had to.

Where Bertha completely loses me is with Larry. Larry is grown, educated and has his own money and Bertha still thought she could decide who he married. Which to me shows that Bertha is self centered and cares about her place in society above all else.

Larry doesn’t need to be married well to be successful like Gladys does. Him having wealthy parents, wealthy business ventures, and being likable is enough.

Her saying that Larry was engaged without her consent is crazy. I did research on this and during that time, women raised and guided the children regardless of gender while they were young. Once the children were older, gender mattered. Boys would be guided by their fathers and girls were guided by their mothers. That’s why we see George object to Larry wanting to be an architect in an earlier season, that is George’s sphere.

Bertha was out of line objecting to who Larry gets engaged to. So for the people who say Bertha’s behavior with Gladys matched the times - I agree. Her behavior with Larry did not and shows she’s out of control.

I love Bertha. I admire her ambition but the way she interacts with her family often comes from a place of self centeredness.

I do hope that they all reconcile in season 4, but I’m glad this situation happened because Bertha finally felt a loss.

Everyone outside of Britani has their own friend/alliance. Lisa and Meredith. Angie and Mary. Bad weather. When they went on the cast trip in season 6, Britani and Bronwyn had to sleep together because everyone else already partnered up. At the season 5 reunion, when Bronwyn asked everyone if they thought she tried with Heather, no one stuck up for her. 

While Bronwyn may be friends with Angie and Whitney, those two already have a best friend on the show. No one on this show is truly loyal to Bronwyn because everyone already has their own buddy. Whitney and Angie would pick Heather and Mary over Bronwyn. So for two seasons, Bronwyn is the only main cast member without her own friend and we all know she's not going to be besties with Britani. 

Do you think she needs her own buddy like others have? How do you think the show would change if she had her own buddy?

Hey everyone! I’m a recent grad who just moved to DC for a Senate internship this Fall. I’d love to meet other girls who are recent grads and potentially meet up in person to explore the city together.