r/F1Discussions

There’s no doubt that every successful driver gets “car merchant” allegations, but no one receives it more than Lewis. I get it, because his era of title winning dominance coincided with Mercedes dominating 2014-2016 in a manner unlike anything we’d ever seen before, which to many fans was incredibly boring and thus soured the perception of Lewis’ success during that time. I think it’s quite a common sentiment that success in a year dominated by one car/driver with no real title battle feels less special regardless of how impressive the achievement of said driver was.

The purpose of this post is not to make comparisons between drivers and argue who is better or worse than one another, but is an observation about how Hamilton is, in my opinion, unfairly perceived by many as someone who didn’t have to fight for his championships and who isn’t capable of competing with a lesser car. Even Jacques Villeneuve, the beacon of Formula 1 knowledge, echoed the same sentiments in a podcast last year. Alonso is credited with competing for the 2010 and 2012 championships in an inferior Ferrari, Max for his 2025 miracle comeback and controlling the 2024 championship and Schumacher for his Bennetton titles and early Ferrari days. All of those are perfectly valid, yet from my point of view Hamilton doesn’t get given the same reputation so easily.

The most extreme anti-Hamilton arguments I’ve seen claim he had the best car in 11 or 12 seasons (2007, 2008, 2012, 2014-2021) but only won 7 titles- which is outrageous. His McLaren days alone are enough to refute these arguments, because despite winning a title and taking it to the final round a further two times I don’t think he had the best car over the course of a season until 2014.

People are often mistaken by thinking McLaren had the best car in 2007 because they had a firm grip on the championship until the implosion late on, but the reason for their advantage was largely down to the performance of their drivers. 2008 is a season of Hamilton’s that is often criticised because he made a lot of mistakes, which is true but he also fought for and won the championship in what was quite clearly not the best car, in fact they weren’t any better than BMW in the first half. There were weekends that season where he was just a different level to the rest of the grid.

Then there‘s 2010 which is often forgotten about, primarily because Alonso got closer to the championship in a car that was also inferior to the Red Bull- it’s also often overlooked how Red Bull had the dominant car that year because they didn’t dominate the championship. There’s the obvious caveat that the championship wouldn't have gone down to the final race without Vettel’s reliability woes, but there was also a large chunk of the season where Vettel dipped in form and threw away wins. Hamilton had the worst of both worlds that season- he had a car inferior to Red Bull‘s and reliability/bad luck that caused a loss of points. In my opinion he was more impressive than anyone that season including Alonso and Vettel.

Then there was 2012, where McLaren gave Lewis a quick enough car (but not dominant or by a significant margin), however the horrendous reliability and pitwall incompetence prevented any chance of a title fight. Then came the Mercedes dominance, 2014-2016 where Hamilton won 2 championships and lost out to Rosberg in 2016- although it is widely accepted that he was better than Rosberg that year.

Those seasons, and the subsequently very comfortable championships for Mercedes/Lewis in 2019 and 2020, made it easy to believe that it was the exact same situation for the championships Lewis eventually won with ease in 2017 and 2018. There‘s more to debate in 2017 with the bad luck Vettel encountered later on in the season but for 2018, I actually think Lewis winning the championship so seamlessly makes it easy to downplay just how amazing he was that season. There were weekends where Mercedes had the edge over Ferrari, but accounting for the whole season I don’t think Mercedes had the best car. The difference in pitwall operations and strategy between Ferrari and Mercedes during those years is also not as extreme as what a lot of people are willing to remember.

To sum up my rambling, I think that Hamilton’s performances throughout his career has often made it easier to believe he was driving the best car when he wasn’t. I’d argue that Hamilton had 5 seasons in the outright fastest car (2014-2016, 2019, 2020) as well as marginally the best car in 2017 and very close to if not the best car in 2021, which is nowhere near as often as it is debated.

TLDR: Russell could have a perfect car and his biggest problem would still be that he's going to spend the rest of his career in an uphill battle against the narrative Formula1 fans and media have decided upon. Who he is has already been decided, and it's not a winner. It's everyone's favourite foil to your prodigy of choice. It's annoying that this theatrical rhetoric, agree with it or not is being brought into reality when it should stay online regardless of which driver it's about. Russell just happens to be the most prominent example.

DISCLAIMER: this is not a George Russell should win post. It doesn't matter if he wins or not. This is not advocating for anyone to like him.

I feel the need to make this post after watching this past Sunday's Bahrain race. And no- surprisingly, this has nothing to do with his car or Mercedes.

I've noticed for a while that people are really quick to hop on the hate bandwagon for Russell, didn't think much of it since he has a notorious rivalry with one of the most popular drivers to grace the sport. I didn't like him much. Whatever you mess with the bull you get the horns from fanboys. That much is expected.

What I find more concerning is that the narrative around Russell has leeched far beyond the bounds of fan circles. To the likes of staff, announcers, and his own team. There was something one of the commentators stated in the pre-race show that really bugged me, it was along the lines of "Russell is going to struggle here because this is a 'racers circuit'" implying that he is not a "racer's racer" and having a laugh about it. Despite his performance indicating that he is incredibly talented at what he does, he performed well at the circuit, like him or not.

Toto has made similar comments amounting to the fact that regardless of how talented Russell is, the man just doesn't have a 'compelling narrative'. He's not a prodigy or a WDC legend but despite competing well with the aforementioned categories of drivers, and he gets treated like an obstacle to the two rather than an equal.

There are several reasons for this I've realized. He has the unfortunate combination of being outspoken, safety conscious, awkward, pretty, and British. The safety conscious thing especially does not tend to read well with a sport and fanbase that prizes shows of machismo over pretty much anything else. Which would've earned him detractors regardless. The biggest reason however is that he's a perfect foil to pretty much anyone good enough to compete at the top of the field. Talented enough to actually bring a fight to prodegies and legends but seen as 'nothing special' in comparison. Unlikable enough to discredit his successes and cheer for his failures.

I wouldn't have made this post if it was simply a fan issue, people are allowed to dislike drivers, to not root for them. But the fact staff, broadcasters, and his own team also buy into this, at times straight up illogical narrative of him being not good enough feels wrong.

I didn't want to root for this man but I feel like I'm being forced to because of how drastically unfair the perception built around him is. He quite literally can't win (in more than one sense).

Edit: This is not advocating for anyone to LIKE George Russell. Or that he should win. I don't really have an opinion on if he wins or doesn't. Like him, dislike him, hate him, I don't care. This is expressing the increasing issue with subjective feelings/opinions being used to create false justifications for those feelings that are just straight up factually incorrect. I start to take even bigger issue with this when it encroaches into reality to the point where commentators, staff, and team members are also making these incorrect assertions. Hate away, but hate accurately at least.

It’s not secret that Russell is one of the least like drivers on the grid for quite a few people. From his famous incident with Bottas (which some people still haven’t forgiven him for), public clash with Max, and “poshness”, he really seems to have rubbed people off the wrong way.

That being said, I’ve seen a ton of comments on George related news or posts that will say “I’m not a fan of George but…” or “I don’t like George but…” Even more so, there are comments that believe that the dislike for him isn’t as a driver, but more so as a person with little respect for him and think that this season is Karma for who he is as a person and a driver.

Is there anything that he can do throughout the rest of his career that could even make him tolerable to fans who dislike him? Seems like both Bottas and Russell have left their incident behind them years ago and while Max and Russell still don’t like each other, they at least have some respect for one another. He also hasn’t complained or “lashed out” this season as much as when he was younger so it seems like he’s really matured and been humbled as a whole.

For example Villeneuve won the title in his second season and then fell off completely.

The gap between the teams right now seems to not be that huge and next year could be an entirely different story. If after a few seasons Antonelli doesn't win another with Mercedes and then moves to Ferrari...

Let me preface by saying that I am a massive fan of Antonelli, I am really rooting for him and believe he can achieve great things. However, that being said,

The first championship is always a challenge for a driver. Norris 2025, Verstappen 2021, Rosberg 16, Vettel 10, Button 09(built up a big lead but the car was nowhere in the 2nd half of the season), Alonso 05, Hakkinen 98, Villeneuve 97

This is the easiest first championship since Hill 96. However, that was not Hill's first season in a top car. He already had 93-95, 1994 where he lost the title by 1 point to Schumacher in Adelaide after that infamous crash, 1993 where his teammate won the championship and 1995 where he had a disastrous failure despite having a car as fast as the Benetton. So 1996 almost felt like a moment we had waited for and something that poor Damon deserved for his troubles, while JV was an exciting up and coming challenger who showed potential.

Then you have Schumacher 1994, mentioned above, then there is Mansell 1992 who is a copy of Hill, fought for the title before and failed repeatedly before his moment arrived at last. Senna 1988, beat Prost who actually had more points and was already a 2 time champion. Prost 85, won quite comfortably yes, but this came after a year where he lost the championship by 0.5 points to his teammate. Now we can keep going a bit further but I will stop here, saying that 82 for Keke and 81 for Piquet were also dramatic

Antonelli has had no narratives, no struggles, no nothing. Neither was his championship battle difficult, nor did it feel it was a long time coming after some failed championship battles(as it was in the case of Hill in 96 and Mansell in 92, who both won the championship comfortably in a rocket ship)

Even Antonelli's first season was farily run of the mill. He was beaten by his teammate comfortably, he himself got 3 podiums, but the car was only the 3rd fastest and was only able to get a few wins and never were in contention for anything while there was an epic championship battle up ahead

So I mean it is all just very strange. It has come very quickly for Kimi true, but it has also just sort of happened without anything exciting happening. Only one of his wins have even been memorable, that being Monza, but to call it hard fought would be a lie because he was up to p1 within 16 laps having started at the back.

Now you can create stories such as youngest ever championship winner, but that is simply a statistic. It is not a feeling. The feeling comes when it is either hard fought and earned in that particular season, or over a driver's career. When neither are present, there is no feeling. This is the 2nd season of Antonelli's career, just nothing has happened so far for him in 2 seasons, so people feel it all is a bit strange. This may happen and has happened for plenty of drivers in their later championships, but not in their first.

For example, Verstappen 2022, Hamilton 17,19,15, Vettel 2011, Schumacher 01,02 are all very boring run of the mill seasons, However we already knew they were great, they were already champions and now they were just adding to the championships already won

Antonelli will be a deserving champion, but the above is why no one feels much excitement about it.

I saw a lot of people here mentioning first championships which had me wondering which driver on the grid in their current form could beat Lewis and Mercedes in the RB16B in 2021.

Could kimi do it?

This is in relation to people talking about Kimi eventually moving to Ferrari after hes done with Mercedes, no comment outside of me saying that anything is possible and It wouldn't surprise me. But whenever people bring this up commenters always talk about how shit of a team Ferrari is now and how the seat is unappealing because how long it's been since they won a world title. I just want to point out that Ferrari was as bad or worse off when Schumacher joined the team and part of the reason he joined is the glory it would bring him to revitalize the team. The fat pay check helped too, but they literally poached him in the middle of a championship fight.

I see post after post after post saying "Kimi will be in the lead without George's bad luck and without his good luck". I agree and i think 99% of people believe that.

But by how much?

I see comments ranging from 0 to as high as 75 points. All confidence but no evidence.

Everyone knows Kimi has overall been faster, but made a few small errors. While George has barely put a foot wrong but lacked pace.

This is my attempt at a neutral luck calculation(Obviously i know it's unrealistic with 0 failures/luck). But here we go:

Australia:
Kimis FP3 crash doesn't get bailed out by Max Q1 red flag. Starts back of grid at Albert Park. In the end, he climbs back to P4 behind both Ferraris. 15s off Russell. GR25, KA12

China:
George's car dosn't stop in quali. He gets 2 attempts and continues topping all sessions. He gets no deploy issues during race. GR25, KA18

Japan:
Without the starting problems, Kimi doesn't fall back, no need for lucky perfect safety car timing. If kimi has no start problems, assume the same for Rus and he stays behind. Merc 1-2. A racey piastri slots in 3rd. KA25, GR18

Miami:
Mclaren were the best and Kimi was somewhat lucky Mclaren fumbled and allowed the quicker Lando to get undercut. But let's give it to Kimi. KA25, GR12

Canada:
Neck and neck all race. But George won sprint, edged pole and was leading when his car failed. Let's give George this. GR25, KA18

Monaco:
Could P2 Max have done heroics into Sainte Devote if his car didn't fail at the start? nobody knows. But this goes to Kimi and Geroge takes P3 without FIA pitlane blunder. KA25, GR15

Barcelona:
Both mercs got unlucky with SC timing, who knows if they could've teamed up to hold Lewis back. But I'd guess not. Without mech failure. KA18, GR15

Austria:
Start of 4 races where Geroge complains about PU straight line issues against what Toto says. Kimi and GR unaffected by quali yellow and Kimi starts p2 instead(as much as this was a GR masterstroke). Kimi had more pace and overtakes George in the race. KA25, GR18

Silverstone:
Kimi was on track to win. George got very unlucky, then very lucky. Without issues George finishes behind Lewis. KA25, GR12

Belgium:
Assume no deploy issues and GR doesn't get rear right wheeled by Lewis. With merc pace, Geroge is likely 3rd. KA25, GR15

Hungary:
Assume no start engine issue for George, but he only ends 1 place higher. Ahead of hadjar and behind ferraris KA15, GR8

Zandvoort:
Team looks biased against Russell but honestly no controversy for me. KA18, GR15

Monza:
Kimi was #blessed. Perfect timing red flag. Perfect timing vsc in the middle. The only one with 2 new mediums to perfectly match this scenario due to new PU. LH giving up at T1, max fighting only Russell. Russell losing 3s to checo. Perfect storm of good luck for Kimi. Without those, Kimi would still be flying. He gets by everyone except George, exceeding Merc forecast of fringes of podium. GR25, KA18

Madring:
Another Mclaren mess up and perfect VSC timing for Kimi. Kimi also lucky that Max illegally overtook a car behind Kimi while being ahead of Kimi. Getting a free position at a track you can't pass. But i guess he gets Max back through pit stops. GR was flying, but might not have gotten past Charles despite being much faster. KA18, GR10

Baku:
Messy off-weekend for KA. GR nearly loses win from unlucky SC timing and bottas crash at the end but somehow holds on. Kimi got lucky with the SC timings and 3 cars ahead of him taking each other out and both mclarens pulling a lewis2021. He finishes p7. Not p10 when some people try to subtract the 5 'free' positions he gained. GR25, KA6

Sepang:
Eventful but predictable outcome without failures. KA18, GR15

Main Race Total is:

KA: 309
GR: 278

Kimi leads by 31 points from main races.

Add in the sprints: KA26, GR34

Drumroll..... KIMI LEADS BY 23 POINTS

1. KA 335
2. GR 312

Now that your mom has balls:

Kimi's points went up a little, but George's points went up a lot without luck/issues.

But tell me which race breakdown you'd disagree with and how the points tally.

Remember i didn't always include mech failure of others that helped. E.g. Leclerc failure gave GR P3 in monaco while Piastri retirement in Hungary would've helped KA more than GR. Among others. So it's changeable

i got really curious about this after seeing a post discussing things ranging from alex and george’s friendship being considered this which i thought was very obvious to everyone from knowing about older drivers and f1s history about things like car designs, sponsorships, the way they transported cars all that stuff. So in your opinion what is actually niche enough to be considered elite ball knowledge or whatever you’d like to call nowadays in f1

F1 Insider Ralf Bach and Helmut Marko said , the new Engine has been decided for 2030.

It's a V8 Bit Turbo with No Electrification. Audi wanted 100KW but got convinced after Malaysia to drop any Electrification. Fuel Flow and Tank Size is still unknown

It seems to me Red Bull are consistently so far ahead in their operational ability - things like strategies, pit stops, in season development, their ability to turn around a weak Friday set up into a strong base for Saturday - than all of their rivals, particularly Ferrari and McLaren.

I gave a lot of credit for this to Horner and the culture he'd built at the team, but even without him and other key figures have moved on recently, it doesn't seem to have affected them.

Why do we think this is? What is it that they do so differently to other teams? And yes I do think the drivers definitely deserve some of the credit, but at the same time switch them into a Ferrari and I don't think we're going to suddenly see brilliant operational calls - to me it's definitely a lot more than that.

Anyone have any insights?