The main cause of fertility collapse and partial solutions

Not expecting miracles from this sub, but it's good to share ideas.

The main cause of fertility collapse is this:

People left to themselves don't have children.

Traditional, rural cultures do a lot to encourage people to breed. Parents have status, work, social life, religion is designed to encourage children.

Modernist and urban cultures have never needed to encourage fertility, because they have been able to draw from large, rural populations. Even in ancient times, urban TFR was below replacement.

The rural populations don't exist anymore because agricultural work is now done by machines.

Traditional rural cultures don't last very long when moved to modernist, urban environments.

The patterns of work, commitment, transience, destroy them.

The 'true-trad' urban communities are living in borrowed time, they lose members all the time to the urban culture.

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'Neo-trad' communities may eventually evolve a culture which encourages large-scale high TFR in a modern environment. They may still call themselves 'Christian' or 'Muslim'- but their actual culture and practices will have changed a lot from today.

But no one knows how to do that yet.

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Bad solutions:

'Return to the countryside by yourself with no money':

Doesn't work, that world is dead and you'll just be growing old alone.

'Everyone becomes muslim/$myversion of trad christian':

Living on borrowed time, modernists and communists suck your members away because you aren't adapted to the modern world.

'ban abortions'

People's behaviour adapts quickly, the fertility bump never lasts long.

'Give people money'

Most rich people aren't having 6 kids. Actual effect size of this policy is too small.

'Wait for the population to fall'

People will keep focussing on the big cities, life will never feel less crowded, urban factors lowering fertility will not go away.

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Good solutions using actually existing social technology, knowledge of birth rates:

1. For the UMC (household income > 250k/annum):

Buy your way out:

Form pro natalist networks, move to suburbs, towns with likeminded people, send your kids on holiday together, raise children in proximity to nature to support healthy instincts.

Use surrogates to have additional children.

Only let your children socialise with people who dream of colonising the stars.

2. Middle class:

Join a religious community, build a retreat town in the countryside for your kids to play at, be educated, keep working in the city.

3. Working class:

Join the military, military base family area is the cheapest actually-existing pronatalist community: Free health care, free education, high social trust, no crime, rural location.

Single men:

Freeze your sperm and make plans to pay for a surrogate if you realise you aren't going to find a wife.

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At the moment, the best use of time for the pronatalist movement is to encourage the upper-middle class to have larger families. Money is not a limiting factor for them, so their fertility rate depends on status and motivation. Most UMC families have 2-4 children, but they could easily afford 5-7.

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Will Larpers inherit the earth?

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u/Sea-Fig111 — 19 hours ago

Africa Diaries part 2: National park date

Having narrowly escaped the bottle service shakedown in part one, I kept trying to find love in Nairobi.

Last night I tried walking through the city. A good looking lady with long weaves tries to pull me into an alleyway. If she'd been less grabby I would have gone with her. But I pull away. A security guard at a bus stop sees me and says I need to go home or I'll die. He pushes me into a cab. No luck.

Today I'm at Westland mall, which could be in Arizona or New York. I made my friend for the shantytown laugh by taking him here and showing him the fridges with TV's on the doors.

But now I'm looking for my Tinder date. She's cute, 20-Yrs, mid-height, has long dark braids. In a tight blue outfit.

We go see a romantic comedy at the cinema. I've never been to one of these before. They're basically non-stop adverts. By the end of the movie she wants to get married on a boat in Greece.

We go to the national park on the edge of the city. It's nice, the earth is a rich red colour. The trees are full of monkeys.

We hike along a path by a creak. She looks so cute walking in front of me.

We kiss underneath a waterfall, and in a cave, and in the forest.

It starts to rain like crazy. Our shoes get caked with mud. It's already dark when we find the edge of the park and get a cab back into the city.

We eat at a Mexican place. I go into the bathroom to get the mud off my shoes. It takes a while. When I get back she says she was worried I'd dumped her and she'd have to pay the bill.

We go to a party of her friends. They all work at westland mall, and are milling around in an alleyway smoking and drinking. I'm mildly paranoid being here on my own.

"let's go babe".

She hesitates, but comes with me back to my hotel.

She's pretty fun. They're not ashamed of themselves here yet. It's very refreshing after the neurotisicm and angst of the west.

We make love through the night and the next day, ordering various Uber eats. It's a great few days. But I still need to go to the mountains for my work. My car leaves in the next few days.

u/Sea-Fig111 — 2 days ago

Nairobi Diaries

https://preview.redd.it/1tp3l3gpt7kh1.jpg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3fd1cbdefbea1af760e046f362becd48a348eec

Some adventures in East Africa. Part 1.

Arrive at my hotel in the capital of Kenia. It's 1AM.

Can't sleep. Download tinder. Pay for tinder gold.

Wakeup: 50 likes. A German girl wants to travel together. She's on the coast.

That's ok for later, but I had other things in mind.

Setup 3 dates for the next 2 days:

Date 1: Slightly fat girl invites me for drinks at her apartment.

Her place is on the edge of town. No great architecture out here: Just enormous, mid height apartments stretching out like grey cliffs. She leads me into a crevass in the mountain.

Her apartment is behind a heavy metal door. It's ok. She has a big TV. We spend the afternoon getting to know each other.

We eat fried chicken at a nearby diner. She wants to go to a nightclub later.

Her friend arrives. Much better looking than her. They both want to go to the nightclub.

We take a cab to the club. It's a crappy place.

"I want a Johnny Walker, can you get me one, baaabe?"

I ask to see the menu. Each drink costs 80 dollars. WTF, that's like a month's salary around here.

"Damn babe, my e-wallet is low. Let's go to my hotel so I can get some cash."

She pouts.

"I already paid my rent, you have to buy the drinks now"

"I will babe, I'd love to party, let's go get my money".

I feel uneasy on the drive to the hotel. We arrive.

I go in. Searching through my things, looking for where I hid my money, my guardian angel says: "You can just tell them to go away, this is a scam".

I go out. I hand her a 20 through the window and say I'm too ill to go out.

I go back to my room.

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u/Sea-Fig111 — 3 days ago
▲ 3 r/MURICA

'Murica has the highest birth rate of any large developed country.

u/Sea-Fig111 — 1 month ago
▲ 8 r/Natalism+1 crossposts

Only MAGACOCKS raise fertility

Well done lads, the only large culture to be above replacement and have a GDP per capita greater than $5000 per year.

u/Sea-Fig111 — 1 month ago

Thai Passport Sisters

This one's for the younger bros:

If you go to Thailand, you'll find that Thai women in their '30s tend to hang around youth hostels looking for young Western boyfriends (~25). They rarely want your money, since they usually have their own careers. They're looking for guys who are fit and handsome.

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u/Sea-Fig111 — 1 month ago

Lowering emissions is the first priority

Nothing realistic can lower emissions faster than nuclear power. There seems to be too much shoehorning in personal sideprojects.

u/Sea-Fig111 — 1 month ago
▲ 4 r/Natalism+1 crossposts

Leftwing democrat culture was pronatalist until 2012

https://preview.redd.it/kxwjihy5ad8h1.jpg?width=1155&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1551e6a7ce0b4dac687258691d7da4d7d9267cf8

People responded to this chart before by saying the low Democrat fertility rate in 2024 was caused by urbanisation, higher education and 'intelligence'.

But the 2012 graph shows almost no fertility gap between democrats and republicans.

This means that until recently, Democrat culture was as good as republicans at pairing people, and supporting stable families.

Fertility data measures cultural health because it is a proxy for couple formation and stability.

Until recently, democrats were able to meet each other and stay in healthy relationships.

What changed?

Historical outlook: 'we ended slavery/beat the nazis :)'

became 'we did some slavery, we are the same as nazis :('

Future outlook: 'We got to the moon and saved the ozone layer, we can do anything :)'

became 'all technology and hope is bad, the only solution to our problems is for the government to ban everything fun :('.

Dating: 'Yes means yes, no one should control my sexuality, I am a real adult and can make decisions :)'

became, 'Consent is important, but it doesn't count if you are under influence. And everyone is always under some kind of infuence (booze, power, fame, money), therefore, consent isn't possible, and all men are rapists :('

Basically, democrat culture has become miserable and dysfunctional. It doesn't give you a happy life and children, it just makes you into a drone designed to spread leftism.

But it doesn't have to be and it wasn't until recently.

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u/Sea-Fig111 — 2 months ago
▲ 5 r/Natalism+1 crossposts

The middle class needs to copy the culture of the upper and lower classes to improve matchmaking and fertility

https://preview.redd.it/1phu4l033j7h1.png?width=827&format=png&auto=webp&s=42f1328fe938cbc82a20482338d4d037c67f0fb1

The middle class has the lowest fertility in most countries.

A major reason why people don't have children is that they don't meet people with a similar upbringing and family culture.

Consider the cultural institutions for meeting people of your own class and culture which the upper and lower class have, which the middle class doesn't.

The lower class has football games, agricultural fairs, and other local meetups.

The upper class has generational university and country clubs, debutant balls, the same hotels they all go to.

There's all this support to find a partner of compatible cultural background if you are rich or poor. If you're middle class you get given a dating app and told "good luck".

Perhaps academic conferences should bring all their late teens/early 20's children with them, and they could visit the city together. having a pre-sorted group of people (similar parents’ profession) makes social understanding easier and reduces the need for explicit rules and social policing.

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u/Sea-Fig111 — 2 months ago

City State Cultural Experimentation is the way forward

So far, the pronatalist project has found that there are many factors that move the fertility rate, and many of the proposed solutions are mutually exclusive.

Is the answer guaranteed welfare by the government?

Pro: You know you won't starve.

Con: You are living like a pet or a zoo animal. Zoo animals also don't breed.

Is the answer religion?

Pro: Religious people have more children.

Con: Maybe people who have more children are also religious (not causative).

Is the answer more child support?

Pro: Women have more security.

Con: Men become very careful who they impregnate.

Is the answer more IVF?

Pro: Extends fertility

Con: Makes having children a lower priority.

We don't know. But imagine if there were hundreds or thousands of cities and towns given more freedom over their local policies, they could experiment with changing all these factors.

This is more likely to find a solution than all-or-nothing national solutions.

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u/Sea-Fig111 — 2 months ago
▲ 1 r/Natalism+1 crossposts

Zoo animal fertility collapse in humans-the corporate man

Looking at towns where the main industry has closed, but the government has kept them alive with welfare and makework: These places are never flourishing, and they don't have a high TFR, even though life is easy.

Look at intelligent animals in the zoo: They know they are being watched all the time, and that their work does not feed them, but they depend on an owner who may or may not keep giving them food in the future.

In both cases, animals and people stop breeding.

Almost nowhere has above replacement TFR. The only place I've seen that has it is rural Africa.

In rural Africa, the government doesn't exist. There are no large corporations. Instead, everyone has to support themselves with 2-5 small jobs. The same man will often be a farmer, a school teacher, and electrician and operate logistics. This kind of man is not directly dependant on anyone, he doesn't have an 'owner' the way a company man has a boss who controls his life.

He is confident in the future, because he has many skills and many places to sell them.

This is closer to being free than even the well cared for company man in the West.

I predict than in the West itself, the highest fertility will be found among small business owners, and independent tradesmen. The lowest among bureaucrats.

 

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u/Sea-Fig111 — 2 months ago