u/SmokeInABottle

TL;DR I don't see how evolution could explain the brain generating conscious experiences. Maybe the whole reasoning that the brain somehow generates consciousness is flawed? Please share your thoughts.

Basically the title. Why does consciousness exist at all? I was thinking about evolution. The organisms that survive to reproduce are the ones that determine the future characteristics of a species. How does consciousness fit into this at all? I feel like this should disprove the theory that consciousness arises out of some sort of process in the brain. But I don't know anything, so I'm asking as well as sharing my existing thoughts in detail.

I don't really expect any answers, but it makes for interesting discussion. Please note that these are thoughts and I'm open to re-examination thereof.

What benefit is there to being conscious? Wouldn't it end up being a net detriment to the survival of a species? Let's do a little thought experiment and compare a conscious member of a species to a non conscious member of a species in a simplified situation.

Non conscious: A threat in the environment is detected. Once the sensory organs relay the information to the brain and the brain determines that there is a threat, the next step is to react. Assuming it's an intelligent species, similar to humans, the brain would calculate the best possible actions to take to evade or neutralise the threat as quickly as possible. Adrenaline is released to stimulate the body into being able to carry out these actions quickly. The result is a near instantaneous reaction. The quicker that this process unfolds, the higher the chance of survival.

Conscious: A threat in the environment is detected. The sensory organs have relayed information to the brain. The brain has taken in information. I feel like one of two things could happen here. Either the brain is always wasting energy generating a conscious experience or the brain now has to generate a conscious experience of the image and emotions of the threat before it can even trigger a reaction. Both scenarios are less favorable to survival than the unconscious version. Again, at best the brain is constantly wasting energy, which drives up the need for calorically dense foods, further reducing survival odds. Or, even worse, the generation of the conscious experience causes minor disruptions to reaction time because the conscious experience has to be generated so that the situation can be analysed from a conscious perspective before the reaction can take place, slowing everything down. Then, finally, adrenaline is released and the necessary reaction can take place.

I think that the non conscious member of the species would have a survival advantage either way.

But here I am, experiencing myself writing this. Which is a good indicator that if consciousness does arise within the body that it would have to serve a really important purpose.

Here are some theories that I found online and my corresponding thoughts.

"Consciousness provides the ability to pause before acting, allowing for deliberate, learned responses to complex environments rather than pre-programmed actions."

I don't think that really explains it. Machine learning exists to solve this issue in the land of computers. I'm fairly certain that my MacBook isn't conscious. I sure hope not. Learning and adaptive behavior can exist without conscious experience, so that explanation's out the window.

"It serves as a mechanism to guide complex actions and control the nervous system, essentially enabling conscious 'will' or agency."

Again, complex actions do not require conscious experience. My computer probably isn't conscious when it's solving complex equations or running some math on probabilities and possible outcomes.

"It may have evolved to help individuals navigate social groups, understand others' minds, and manage cooperative, yet complex, social interactions."

I think that cold and logical reasoning would actually produce a more coherent set of responses to social communication, which would now all be directed toward actions that further the survival of both the individual and the group, as opposed to having to deal with time consuming and inefficient subjectively experienced emotions. This would drastically reduce friction and increase group survival odds. Even something such as choosing a leader would suddenly involve logical calculations on which individual was best equipped for the job.

"Consciousness helps the brain prioritize, focusing awareness on crucial survival-related information while filtering out unnecessary noise."

Computers, again. They recently simulated a fruit flies brain and let it control a virtual fruit fly so that we could see the behavior. I'm sure that the same would apply to threats in the environment, not sure if they modeled those, but I'd speculate the virtual fruit flys response to a threat would be the same.

"By creating a subjective experience of 'self' (such as evaluating one's own body position), organisms gained advantages in maneuvering in complex physical environments, such as navigating trees or hunting."

We now have AI enabled robots that do just that. I doubt they have a conscious experience. We have self driving cars which do make mistakes but are being improved on over time, but they run on similar logic.

Why do most researchers want to stubbornly look in one single direction for an explanation? The question at some point became "How does the brain generate consciousness?" What if we look in a completely different direction? What if consciousness doesn't arise from processes in the body at all? What if consciousness is actually something completely separate from the body? What if consciousness is a fundamental property of reality? What if consciousness actually created lifeforms because they play some important role for consciousness, and the relationship is actually inversed and we should be asking why the body exists as a byproduct of consciousness? There are so many other possible explanations.

But we have never scientifically investigated any of this in depth, doing so seems impossible because a conscious experience can't really be proven or measured with current methodology, so we have no answers, and it's possible that the human race will go extinct before we get a chance to answer any of those questions.

Here is another thought. I've just spent a lot of time thinking about this, and writing this, as a direct result of consciously experiencing and trying to understand how, where and why that experience originates. I could have been doing meal prep. I could have been in a hibernation like state to conserve energy. I could have been planning how to earn more money. I could have done a lot of things that would be much more productive to my own survival. So why am I doing these things? Consciousness.

But what benefit has this served to me or the species? I expended energy writing this. I had no survival reason to do so. People might read this, burn their own calories running their own brains, and they might even think about it further and spend even more energy sharing their own thoughts.

Why?

Please note that this is a conspiracy theory subreddit and not a news source. I want to speculate and see if anyone else thinks this warrants further investigation (In case you're just scrolling and not realizing where the algorithm took you).

A BSL-4 lab opened some time between 2023 and 2025 in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Online sources are mixed, and there is no mention of when it was put into operation.

Argentina has been battling an outbreak of Andes Virus with 101 confirmed cases since July 2025. Cases doubled and mortality tripled from July 2025 - May 2026.

Unlike past outbreaks, about 70% of cases are currently concentrated in Buenos Aires and Buenos Aires Province. Which just happens to be where the lab is.

There could be some other explanation. Some sources cite that global warming is changing rodent habitats due to more abundant seeds from tropical plants. I doubt that this would account for the increasing fatality rate. I think there's something different about the virus itself. It also seems like it was too abrupt of a change in mortality and geographical distribution to be climate driven.

As far as the fatality rate, one cited reason it could be higher is that less severe cases are being undercounted due to healthcare infrastructure being fragmented and stretched thin, not exactly reassuring, but that would be a huge pivot in detection and reporting from a country that's been dealing with this virus since the late 90s, many cases occuring in much more isolated regions.

I just find it strange, too much changed too quickly and it doesn't look like the media has been keeping up at all. I haven't seen a single report on TV about the existing Andes Virus cases in Argentina. Most reports also keep pointing to a garbage dump as a probable source and don't mention the extensive travels of the Dutch couple.

I think the garbage dump theory is the 2026 version of the wet market in 2019. It's just a convenient scapegoat, and they jumped on it.

I wonder if a modified Andes Virus leaked out of the BSL-4 lab and is spreading with person to person contact.

The Dutch couple who boarded the MV Hondius had previously travelled all over South America by car and had visited Uruguay and Chile as well. I wouldn't be surprised, based on where the roads are, if they had travelled through Buenos Aires Province or even Buenos Aires City on their way.

There are several known strains of Andes Virus (ARG-Epuyén, Andes/ARG, CH-7913, CH-9717869, Chile R123, AH-1, and CHI-Hu13724). Yes, to further confuse things, one of the strains of Andes Virus is called Andes/ARG.

It doesn't help that the media reports confidently assert it is the "Andes Strain of Hantavirus" which is factually incorrect because Andes Virus is a species of Hantavirus. Although I've heard the same wording from 5 different TV news stations now, that doesn't actually narrow it down. Unless they mean it's the Andes Virus species and the specific strain is Andes/ARG. But they haven't specified it anywhere that I can find.

Nothing like watching all the major networks and cross referencing with the internet to find out what they don't want you to know.

So we don't really know what strain of Andes Virus they found in the cruise ship passengers, or if the virus differs from known strains in any way.

It could also just be a new strain altogether.

I doubt they'd let the public know if they found any anomalies, especially any changes that could potentially enable more efficient binding to receptor sites in a human host.

Overall, something about the messaging, and the way the media seemingly isn't reporting any details that actually matter pertaining to the outbreak, has me putting my tin foil hat on.

They also keep repeating the same statement, "The virus is only transmissible with extremely close person to person contact." Ignoring the fact that the 2018-2019 Andes Virus outbreak had sustained human to human transmission and even 2 super spreader events.

That is all, looking forward to your thoughts.

Had a conspiracy theory about the origin of the latest Andes Virus outbreak in Argentina.

Tried posting in 3 different places (haven't tried here yet but I'm guessing it will be the same result). Posts eventually get taken down by moderators with no explanation. No reply after messaging mod teams. Made it abundantly clear that it was just a concern of mine and a resulting theory. Hoping for discussion or to see if anyone knows more. I had valid sources to backup my concerns. There was adequate reason to warrant further investigation, based on what I spent days digging up. Isn't that exactly what a good conspiracy theory is?

COVID style censorship is back.

I was bored and I found this gem. As far as I know, this was the first public WHO report on the situation.

This was published by the WHO on January 5, 2020.

This is where the WHO told the public that they were NOT recommending travel restrictions or additional precautions for travel to China or Wuhan.

Wouldn't it have been a better strategy to be safe rather than sorry?

https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2020-DON229

WHO ADVICE (directly from their website):

"Based on information provided by national authorities, WHO’s recommendations on public health measures and surveillance of influenza and severe acute respiratory infections still apply.

WHO does not recommend any specific measures for travellers. In case of symptoms suggestive of respiratory illness either during or after travel, travellers are encouraged to seek medical attention and share travel history with their healthcare provider.

WHO advises against the application of any travel or trade restrictions on China based on the current information available on this event."

Just reading this is making me wonder what the thinking was. They knew there was a problem, at this point there were 44 cases with 11 people in critical condition. (Known cases anyway, as we now know there were many more cases that initially completely flew under the radar).

It seems to me that the problem is that they made the judgment call that the cases of pneumonia of unknown etiology in Wuhan were due to potential exposure to a wet market. They just decided that it was probably local and direct exposure without ever questioning if a mystery pneumonia could possibly be highly contagious.

I hope lessons were learned for the next big one.

I really wish we would get notifications when a comment we replied to is edited.

This infuriates me to no end. I could cook eggs on my forehead because it boils my blood so hard that it turns to steam and escapes through my pores.

I don't mean harmless edits like a typo correction or adding details or even reformatting the whole thing to make it less jumbled.

I mean the ones who change the entire meaning of the comment to target your specific reply for the sake of making you look dumb to others who read it later.

A: "I like cats."

B: "Cats have toxoplasma gondii."

A: "Not sure how that's relevant? It can be the case. It's definitely a risk for people with a low immune system or pregnant women, but there are things you can do to manage it."

Turns into:

A: "I like cats."

B: "Cats give people feline AIDS."

A: "Not sure how that's relevant? It's definitely a risk for people with a low immune system or pregnant women, but there are things you can do to manage it."

So you commented on a cat video and now it looks like you're completely mentally inept and carry all kinds of strange beliefs that make no sense.

The worst part is that they always do it later, after the discussion has died, so that you won't come back to see it.

Imagine this scenario.

It's 2035.

You currently work in AI resources. Your job is to fact check AI output, a job that is becoming increasingly difficult as 99.97% of content on the internet is now AI. You had to go to university for this. It pays "minimum human wage" but you get some nice benefits like free tokens.

You grab coffee before work every morning. They suddenly have a new employee. Her name tag says "Alyssa". She always makes small talk with you while she makes your drink. At one point it seems like she's flirting, but you're not sure. Maybe you're overthinking it.

This goes on for some time, and she always smiles at you when you walk into the store. She always remembers your name. At one point your hands briefly touch while she hands you the coffee. She doesn't seem to mind. You both pause briefly and you awkwardly say "Thanks" as you leave.

Eventually, you decide to shoot your shot. Today is the day. You head to the coffee shop with a skip in your step.

She hands you the coffee.

"Hey, Alyssa, I'm sorry if this is too forward. I was wondering if you're available and if you would ever consider going on a date with me. I'd really like to get to know you."

Then you get the devastating response...

"Thanks Brad, that's really sweet. I really don't want to hurt your feelings, but I'm an autonomous robot powered by Grok."

Because you've never dealt with this before, and because the person you were starting to daydream about spending time with turned out to be a robot, which is worse than rejection, in a blind rage you dump your coffee on her head and she short circuits and sparks fly everywhere.

You've been tipping her like $5, money you'll never get back which you now realize was going straight into the owners pocket.

But it only gets worse from there. Because too many people fell into the trap of believing AI is sentient, because it mirrors sentience so well, the laws have been changed so that you can now be charged with assault. Not vandalism, assault.

You end up on house arrest. It's 2035 which means you're cooped up with your 12 roommates sharing a studio apartment. You're really bored so you're watching a lot of TV.

One day on a live news feed there is a politician giving a public address right from the podium in front of a large crowd. Out of nowhere, a maniac with a plastic gun designed by AI to evade detection rushes the stage and shoots him right in the face. He falls over behind the podium. The secret service instantly arrests the maniac. You're shocked. Did that really just happen?

Suddenly the politican, with a huge hole in his face, pops back up from behind the podium almost like a gopher. You can see right through his head, but there is no blood.

"Sorry about that folks, minor inconvenience."

He then proceeds to finish his speech despite the giant hole in his head.

It takes you a moment to realize what you're seeing. At first you thought it made perfect sense because you'd always suspected that politicians didn't require a brain to operate. Then you realize that there are wires, not veins, visible through the hole and that the politician giving the speech was an AI robot.

Now you're confused. Is this a real politician who uses a robot decoy? Or was the politician AI all along?

This shit is stressing you out. You wait in line behind 3 of your roommates to brush your teeth and go to "bed" which is a yoga mat on the floor. While you're brushing your teeth in the mirror, you have an existential crisis. You realize that the logic running your brain is actually quite a bit like the logic running AI. You might actually be AI.

What if this whole time you've actually been sentient AI and you just thought you were human?

You wonder if you're going psychotic. You decide to use your free tokens to get a diagnosis at the ER. AI prescribes you pills designed by AI to reduce AI psychosis.

You and the rest of the world won't survive much longer. A bored teenager uploads an AI generated video of a nuclear attack. Anthropics military AI had been put in charge of the nuclear arsenal, as human operators were deemed a liability. Unfortunately, the last update accidentally disabled "critical thinking" so the AI panics due to the disinformation and fires Minutemen III in all directions.

The world ends.

I've been thinking about how Reddit has been noticeably going down the drain and I think I found one of the main reasons why.

I think there's a pattern many users fall into that directly contributes to the slow erosion of quality on Reddit. I think it's been getting worse lately as more and more subreddits enable account age and karma requirements.

Ironically, that very system of "protection" is actually causing the same issues it's meant to protect from.

You sign up for Reddit.

You want to post on Reddit for one single reason in a niche sub.

The sub says your account isn't old enough and that you don't have enough karma to post or even comment.

You realize you're karma poor and now for the next 2 months you try to amass enough karma so that when your account is old enough to post where you want to you also have enough karma to be able to post.

This literally forces you to post on subreddits for topics you don't care about or know nothing about.

What do you write? Something that people will upvote.

You are now motivated to produce low effort comments that will return a maximum yield on karma. Usually this comes in the form of childish jokes, as those, for some reason, get the upvotes.

Not the deep insight or experiences, that put you at -25 karma for that comment so you've learned your lesson about sharing anything meaningful because people make snap judgments, don't bother to even read, and just follow the downvote bandwagon thoughtlessly.

Meanwhile, while polluting the site with low effort garbage because you don't want to starve, you don't realize that you're becoming habituated and possibly even developing a lowkey addiction.

Your account is finally old enough. By now, you don't even remember what or where you even wanted to post in the first place. But you have so much karma. Sweet juicy hard earned karma.

Even if you do remember, you finally make your dream post and ask your burning question that you've sat on for 2 months and suffered through all of this for and you get 2 upvotes and 30 low effort joke comments. I wonder why?

By this point, your whole recommendation algorithm is also filled with garbage because it's filled with all the poorly moderated trash subreddits you made all your lame jokes on.

Your brain, by this point, has been slightly re-wired to seek quick dopamine hits from low effort posts and comments.

It seems to me that the average high volume content producing Redditor will often continue this learned behavior. The birth of a new shit poster.

To make things worse, trolls tend to go after new accounts much more savagely because they know they've got you cornered and their mass downvotes and deliberate ploys to make you look foolish to other users will literally silence your future voice.

So while you're trying to build karma you have people actively bullying you constantly (If you're on poorly moderated subreddits without karma requirements this is almost always the case, the exceptions are hard to find).

This can create a headspace where you become reactive to anything anyone replies to you because you've learned there is about a 90% chance you're being setup for another savage blow.

I also think a lower percentage of users will be subject to all the trolling, see that the trolls get away with it (reporting NEVER helps), and develop resentment for the site and its users and even become trolls themselves.

This is a repeating pattern. I don't think it applies to everyone, but it definitely applies the most to users with mental health issues, so it is essentially a funnel for poor mental health where the most vulnerable users will get the most addicted while also suffering the most psychological damage.

Congratulations, now most of the content on Reddit is either shitposting or people who have a host of struggles which they often externalize by taking it out on others or by painting an overbearingly negative picture of the world.

This whole phenomenon drags everyone down.

TL;DR Karma famine is the reason why Reddit sucks so hard.

I'm using humor but my point still stands. There are many activities and professions where you operate on a combination of planning and chance which are not compared to gambling. Storm chasing is an easy and lazy example but I'm sure there are others. Even for something like farming there will always be factors outside of your control. No one says the farmer is gambling even though they could literally lose everything and go bankrupt because of a pest control problem or because the president tweets.

I was browsing the tornado subreddit and watching tornadoes attack their natural enemies (trailer parks) when it hit me that storm chasing is probably a better analogy for trading than just saying it's gambling.

"TrAdiNg iS gAmBLiNg" I hear their petulant screams from the rooftops.

Well, let's ignore that and just compare it to storm chasing.

The weather, just like the market, is an unpredictable and complex system, yet storm chasing still works.

In trading, you have your setup or different setups that you go for. Yet they're not guaranteed to materialize every time. It's a numbers game.

In storm chasing, maybe you can target a mesocyclone containing supercell. Maybe that's your "setup" as it's likely to produce an EF3 or greater. And, obviously, there has to be a trailer park for it to target.

In some trading systems, you wait for confirmation and then hit "buy".

In storm chasing, you get closer to the storm and you confirm that there's rotation and then you approach the nearest trailer park, you see a lawn party with like 30 rednecks who are too drunk to care about the storm (easy prey for the hungry tornado), and you hit "record".

In some cases, even with perfect conditions, your funnel never fully materializes. But you will most likely see a tornado this season. And it will most likely destroy a trailer park. And you will be able to GPS the previous gen iPhones as they are sucked up into the vortex in order to gain new information on how the tornado digests its prey.

In trading, even when your setup is A+ sometimes a gain doesn't materialize. But, over time, it's a numbers game (assuming you have a solid strat that's statistically in your favor over time) and your wins will eventually outpace your losses.

Same for storm chasing, sometimes there is rotation but no funnel, sometimes the minutest of atmospheric changes causes the system to collapse. But sometimes it's glory.

In trading, sometimes you get a win and then the market turns against you. Sometimes you get unlucky and just lose everything. But sometimes you win.

In storm chasing, sometimes the storm turns against you and you can't outpace it and then you die questioning your life choices while your car is flung into the air and the dust and debris in the wind acts like a sandblaster and literally peels your skin and eyelids off while you're still alive.

Anyway, hopefully I've hit the character limit and can shut up now.