u/StrawberryDuck

I know about cluster Bs wanting control and to be worshiped but on some level do you think they do this as entertainment like a sick sadistic game?

I have spent a lot of time on the NPD sub in here and people with NPD suffer with chronic boredom and emptiness and no empathy. They admit that they torture and mess with people just because they are bored and need drama/excitement.

The reason why I think this can be the main driver..my alienator parent set up my protective parent as being an abuser. Because she was really ill and couldn't protect herself at the time, I stood in to protect her and called out the false allegations and instead called the police on the real abuser.

As soon as I did that, the narrative changed and I became labeled as the abuser instead. Sadly while my sick mother was in hospital, I was the one battling with family and being highly emotional and reactive so that the family saw me as unstable. I realise now I was walking into a trap.

The more I fought with them, the more I played into the narrative that I am sick and disturbed and everything I did backfired on me. The more I protested, the more they said I was crazy.

It really broke me so I walked away from the whole situation for two months. No doubt I was really smeared in that time. It was weird as they then started to lovebomb my mum again and don't accuse her of being abuser/being deserving of abuse and instead that has become my role instead.

At first she was scapegoated but I protected her and then I was scapegoated. The EXACT same dynamic happened to me as a child until I was 17 and left home until I was 4O and moved closer to home and tried to help with my parents again. NOTHING CHANGED in the dynamic at home at all.

Again my dad started smearing mum like he always did, I leapt in to defend her and was then smeared for doing this.

So is it just about torturing people for fun? It didn't seem to matter to my dad whether he accuses my mum as an abuser or me! It seems to me that it's about who gives him the biggest kick through drama. He once told me that he only feels happy when other people are suffering so that would mean he feels miserable when people are happy and contented.

This checks out as on the NPD sub they say that peacefulness and happiness and contentment makes them feel sick and irritable inside because they always feel chaotic inside. When things are normal on the outside they realise they are sick inside but when they put the sickness outside themselves then they relax as it confirms that it 'isnt them that's sick inside'.

Apart from being their emotional trashcan and regulators, I do think that they get an addictive kick out of doing evil and getting away with it.

I do wonder if the more I react to it, the more I feed their addiction to sadistic drama.

Funnily enough both my dad and my sister really frreak out when I don't give a reaction and stay silent. They have a complete meltdown when I stay calm and quiet.

It is so counterintuitive dealing with this as none of the usual type of negotiation strategies work and it's almost like needing to use reverse psychology all the time because up is down and down is up.

My neighbour who is a friend is going through this right now but it is in the beginning stages. She is separated from her partner and has been losing the trust of her eldest teen son. I have just seen the son jump in his dad's van and go off with my neighbour in tears. I am hoping he has not gone off to live with his dad.

How can I help my neighbour friend? She has confided in me and doesn't understand why her son has suddenly turned on her and puts it down to adolescence but her partner plays the good cop/bad cop manipulation and also has said really dehumanising things to her which have made her anxious and lose self confidence.

How best to support someone who is first going into this? Have you learned anything about this now that would help someone just experiencing it from the beginning.

What would you do differently from the beginning?

Thanks in advance. It's awful to see someone else go through this. If you can offer advice on this, it will be most welcome. ❤️

As background, I am an adult child alienated from my mother while she is seriously ill. I called out the alienator (to family and police) for spousal/domestic abuse and have since been shunned from the family.

I will be seeing my mother at her home next week after being kept away for months..Prior to this I was banned from seeing her in hospital, my phone calls were intercepted and screened and my letters to her were intercepted and read.

I panicked and changed my number as I was being abused by phone.

I asking advice...my mother has been coersively controlled by her alienator for most of her marriage as was I. It is the exact same dynamic used on children. She is restricted from seeing anyone, her mail is opened and read, restricted from newspapers and magazines and any phone calls to her go through the gatekeeper/alienator or his other daughter (my sister).

My mother was never allowed her own mobile phone and was blocked access to the joint bank account.

Over the years, when I was her main carer, I bought her more than one mobile and paid for the running of it so I always had a way of staying in touch. I also used WhatsApp to contact her.

The problem is that the alienator always insisted all contact went through him, emails, phone calls and everything else...

Her last mobile was outdated (it was a 3G phone).

I have just bought her a new one and I put my new phone number in. I thought about putting photos on it and uploading messages and voicemail on it so she can look/read/listen when the alienator is not around. She is not very good with mobiles, she can't text or email so I got her a simple phone.

The main reason I bought her this is as an emergency phone if she needed to call me or the police.

My concern is, will she show this phone to the alienator? Before she went into hospital she was frightened of him and wanted to move out but she was very ill in hospital and now says he is really wonderful again. I am presuming she has been lovebombed as the police have been involved.

Any advice for the meeting and giving her the phone? No doubt though the alienator won't leave her side for a second though...😔

I just came upon this term today whilst doing research on cults. Parental alienation and the dynamics set up by the alienator are extremely similar to cult dynamics.

Double drowning is a term used by people who have left a cult but who then try to go back to get someone out who is still trapped inside. The analogy is simple, when a person is drowning then there is a risk when a person tries to save them and instead drowns as well and so you have a 'double drowning'.

Dealing with this problem day in and day out and being immersed in the alienators sick mind and sick games can run the risk of drowning you whilst you desperately try to save your drowning children.

It may seem counter-intuitive but you have got to be on dry land on in an anchored boat yourself to safely help someone who is drowning.

You need to maintain as much of a healthy and normal life as possible to reflect back towards your children. That means you can't have guilt when you find happiness and stability in the world outside the prison the alienator has created.

If you are still stuck living with the alienator, try to have hobbies or interests or friends of your own that make you feel grounded in things that make you feel sane and stable and around healthy things/people. Sometimes this may look like a regular walk on your own or a room on your own or an hour alone or with others not in the alienators orbit. For me as the child of an abuser, having time alone in a room of my own having my own private interests which I did not share with my abusive parent felt like I had a whole world to myself.

If you live away from the alienator then it may mean more heartache and mystery surrounding what is happening to your child but it will mean more freedom for yourself to be in a better place mentally to be in touch with the real world. Don't feel guilty doing things and enjoying things that you know your child is missing out on. Investing time in healthy relationships and activities will stop you from burning out and gives you the stable life that you child currently lacks. You will be nest building in case your child realises they are missing out.

Realise that it is better to help someone who is drowning when you are on dry land yourself, have a strong solid boat or are a very confident swimmer yourself to avoid double drowning.

The better your life is going outside the alienator, the better opportunities you have in offering your child an alternative to the life they are struggling to have.

Please can you pray for a sister in Christ in the UK? My name is Emma. My mother is dying but she isn't saved yet and my family have turned on me as the enemy is using them. My mother's name is Judith. The enemy is using the family to block my mother from hearing the Gospel before she passes. Please can you pray that my mother will accept the Gospel to be saved and that I am delivered from the terrible abuse I am going through at the hands of my family?

Thank you in advance.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.

That's it, that's what I wanted to post. I saw the above quote about a couple who got custody of a baby boy who was horrifically abuse by his bio parents (giving hard drugs to a baby) and the bio parents were causing problems for this couples bio daughter to get revenge.

One of the replies stated "You're stealing a toy that they are trying to break" and I thought it very apt for here.

This information is specifically about narcissistic abusers/alienators.

Part one

Why do they seem to win? It is because they are far more skilled and effective than you at 'playing the game'/gaming the system and others.

The main way they do this is how they look from the outside to others. The abuse is behind closed doors with careful crafted plausible deniability.

Something that is really important to understand is that all a narcissist cares about is their mask, nothing else. Your children are just props to keep their mask on.

All narcissists have masks. They wear it so that people think they are normal/respectable/sane/believable/loving/ credible/responsible/loving etc.

The masks are different depending on what the narcissist wishes to project to the outside world. They don't have one default mask but alternating masks dependent on how they want to exploit any given situation.

Sometimes it is about looking the sexiest person in the room, sometimes it's about looking the most pure, sometimes its about seeming to be powerful, sometimes to be seen as most humble.

They put on these masks like others put on clothes. Sometimes the mask they put on is not the appropriate one to game the situation. That is why sometimes they say outrageous things that shock you. For example, they may make it clear to you that they want to look the sexiest/hottest person at a relative's funeral.

They may do this accidentally because they are so caught up with themselves but it may also be a way of abusing you by showing how little they care about you or the deceased relative.

Whatever the motivation behind this 'reveal', if you then tear this mask off to show there is nothing inside then but a black hole void then that is when they go on the attack.

Using my example, if you point out how I appropriate it is to be obsessed about their looks at a funeral, then you will give them an injury. Abuse will follow. They sometimes give you the mask reveal when things get boring for them and they want trouble. They live for chaos.

First off the bat...my narcissistic father tried to alienate me from my mother from early childhood on but it didn't work the way he thought it would.

• The smearing of you was pre-emptively done when your child was very young (think toddler) BEFORE you had problems in your marriage. It is really important to understand how personality disordered individuals work (there is a big difference between Narcissists and Borderlines so it is really important to know which personality disorder your ex shows signs of having because they definitely have one if they are doing this) My post is about malignant narcissism as that is what I have the most experience of.
• With malignant narcisssists, they never get married and have children for love but to possess objects that will worship them and be under their control. They were most likely abused by their own parents the same way. The are incapable of love, they only 'love' themselves and objects and the things they can get out of people but even this love is mingled with self hatred/loathing and terror of being abandoned.
• The smearing is cumulative over a very long period of time. It is meant to cast doubt on your ability to parent, to mould you as incapable, defective, mentally ill or an embarrassment/shame to be associated with.
• Shame is a HUGE part of narcissism. Coverts have a grandiose false self that protects their inner emptiness, emotional wounds and stunting and self loathing. The bigger the gap between the false grandiose mask and reality the bigger the shame and the bigger the narcissistic injury. Rather than feel the pain of this injury/shame (which they falsely believe from childhood will annihilate them) they fling in onto someone else. They fling it on to you.
• Narcissists build a system whereby they have to be 'all good' and perfect or they suffer an internal shame injury. As they can't self soothe, this shame can go into a spiral loop of self loathing and self abandonment which left unchecked leads to psychosis and even suicide. This is known as the 'collapse' or mortification. When this happens they are finally faced with the reality of all the evil they have done and they no longer have anyone to blame it on.

However...this is where you come in

• Narcissistic personality disorder cannot exist on its own. There has to be at least one other person. It is known as a dyad. They may believe at some point (because they are often delusional and dysphoric) that they really did fall in love with you as often narcissists fantasize about perfect love, someone who will adore them as they are and never abandon them
• When you were lovebombed (remember they can't really love) into marrying them they were using complex mirroring cues, flattery, future faking and feigned vulnerability to win you over.

Sadly I went on as an adult to have multiple relationships with narcissistic men as all survivors do. We gravitate towards what we wrongly believe as safe. As you will know yourself, the 'honeymoon' period with a narcissist feels like a huge rush of addictive powerful emotions. The whole 'soul mate/can't live without them stuff'.

If you were pulled in this way, it is highly likely that one of your parents are narcissistic as well and forced parental alienation on to you without you realising it. This is multi generational abuse.

• There are other parts to how a child is moulded to the narcissistic parent e.g. emotional abuse, mind games, lying, gaslighting, DARVO, enmeshment, parentification and emotional incest. All these things combined together form a trauma bond with an abusive parent. I am very sad to say that trauma bonds can feel stronger than real love bonds. As this abuse and alienation (which is also abuse) is begun when the child is in the formative years during important stages of emotional bonding, children with narcissistic parents do not bond in a normal way. The bonds are not a mix of dependency and autonomy, loving care and encouragement to learn and grow but based on really primal survival urges such as 'will my dad kill me while I sleep'. Realise that your child will live with low level stress throughout their childhood and feel terror towards their narcissistic parent. They will also feel impotent rage and resentment that can never be let out as the Narcissistic parent will use fear of further abuse and retaliation to keep the child further in line. So this inartculate rage sadly is directed (by the narcissist) towards the other parent as a type of bait and switch.

I am going to stop this post here as it is difficult for me to work through this myself but if there are anything you would like to know you can ask me anything and I will try to help.

My mother is being psychologically abused at home by her husband (my father). I confronted my father and he denied it. I called the police but he was standing over us when they came and was too frightened to speak up.

My mum has gone to hospital and cannot speak. She seems to have had a complete nervous breakdown with seizures. I told the family but they all took the abusers side. My father had narcissistic personality disorder and the abuse only happens covertly behind closed doors. My own sister has taken my father's side too and called me mentally ill.

Since calling the police, I have raised a safeguarding issue which went nowhere. I phoned the hospital to raise a safeguarding issue and the nurse said 'how would you know if your father is abusive? I spoke to your mother for hours and she never mentioned it's the problem is that my sister was sitting with her the whole time.

I am now blocked from visiting my mother in hospital. Every person I confided the abuse to now goes to the hospital in twos every day and sit by my mother's bed to stop me from visiting her. I have been accused of being mentally ill. I have been forbidden (by my sister) from being alone with her, talking to her, praying for her or even crying by her bedside.

This is the most horrific abuse I have ever experienced in my life. It seems as though they think I am the abuser. At one point my father started to accuse my mother of domestic abuse even though she was really ill and could barely wash or dress herself.

When I told her brothers about the abuse of her they said 'maybe it was being done with love and she was being annoying'.

I am at my wits end here...

To recap, I was scared to report it to the police when my father was there, social services wouldn't help unless my mum was involved and the safeguarding nurse at the hospital said she didn't believe me.

What on earth do I do now? Can anyone relate being accused of being the abuser when being open about domestic abuse?

In an extremely distressing situation and wanted to know my legal rights.

My mother is being domestically abused by my father. She is currently in hospital and I believe it is related. She hasn't been physically abused but she has been mentally tortured whilst being a vulnerable elderly by her narcissistically abusive husband (my father).

My mother has had a type of nervous breakdown and doesn't know who she is anymore. I have tried everything to help her but the problem is that it is my word against my father as my mother's word may not count as she has lost mental capacity.

• So far I have
• Confronted father and sister and my mother's family and they have all taken the abusers side
• Raised safeguarding issues at the hospital that it isn't safe for her to go home which has been denied by nurse as nurse said 'how do you know'
• Called the police while we were both being abused at home and was too frightened to say anything as father stood over us and sweet talked his way out of it and police said (even through we were cowering on sofa) 'I can see there is no problem here's
• Tried to involve social services but they said they would need a report from my mother but she can't do that now.

So now my mother is in hospital and I am in a horrific situation whereby the family I have reported the abuse to are now treating me as though I am the abuser. They are keeping vigil by her bed for the entire visiting hours every day and whenever I try to go to see my mother I have been ganged up on by family, given verbal abuse by sister and accused of being mentally ill. I really am suffering mentally now as the abuse has been so horrific.

I want to know what my legal rights are about visiting mother but also want to know what I can do about the domestic abuse situation as I have had no response from anyone I have contacted about it.